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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Nonnie Clubhouse  ›  Agave or Vegetable Glycerin?
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Agave or Vegetable Glycerin?  This thread currently has 3,505 views. Print Print Thread
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Ribbit
Monday, January 21, 2008, 7:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Yes, that's really the least of my worries.  Mainly what I have to worry about today is the amount of something they're putting in our drinking water.  We filter the water to drink, but some days I and my daughter get all itchy in the shower.  Would chlorine do that?  We use all-natural soap and shampoo (if you want to call Sodium Laureth Sulfate natural).


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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teri
Monday, January 21, 2008, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lloyd
There are likely many things you take for granted on a day-to-day basis that require the same amount of faith, or more.


This is true, Lloyd. But I prefer not to have to rely on faith when it comes to the foods I eat and it is really nice when we are able to eliminate some of these things off our daily list. I think the question we are raising is "who to trust"? Researchers? Producers? Government? Each other? My experience with researchers is that 99% of the time there is a hidden agenda (Dr.D excluded). Producers too, except agenda is quite obvious. And government? Well, who knows what goes on there?  So, I prefer the latter, especially when I read something like this...

Quoted from Brighid45
I can only say that when I use Blue Agave, I don't get my usual reaction to corn or high fructose sweeteners--joint aches, swollen hands and feet, itchiness and swelling in lymph areas, blood sugar swings and headaches/mood swings. It doesn't bother me at all, actually, and I'm extremely sensitive to corn and corn products of all kinds.


This says soooo much, but most of all it says that we don't have to rely on faith where food is concerned because there is always proof out there (or here) somewhere if we keep looking.


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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TJ
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ribbit
Yes, that's really the least of my worries.  Mainly what I have to worry about today is the amount of something they're putting in our drinking water.  We filter the water to drink, but some days I and my daughter get all itchy in the shower.  Would chlorine do that?  We use all-natural soap and shampoo (if you want to call Sodium Laureth Sulfate natural).


http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/fluoride_controversy.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/12/fluoride_deception.htm

Apparently, the stuff that goes into the water with the fluoride is worse than the fluoride itself.
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organicmomma
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Brighid45
If agave doesn't work for you or you suspect the source, try vegetable glycerine instead, or sweeten with stevia or compliant fruit juice.


Where can you get vegetable glycerine?  I cannot find it at any of our HF stores.
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Brighid45
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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If you can't find veggie glycerine in your local HFS, see if they would be willing to order it for you. If they can't or won't do so, then try a baking supply store. Commercial bakers use glycerine in baked goods to make them moist. My mother used to bake wedding cakes and she always added glycerine to the cake batter. If you don't have a baker's supply in your town, check the local pharmacy or drugstore, they may carry it or be able to get it for you. If all else fails, you should be able to find an online source.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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Chanur
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 12:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My HF stocks the veg. gly. is in the natural living section rather than in the baking aisle because many people use it externally instead of eating it. That's why I always check to make sure it's 100% pure.
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italybound
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chanur
My HF stocks the veg. gly. is in the natural living section rather than in the baking aisle because many people use it externally instead of eating it.


This is where WF has it as well. I can't for the life of me imagine how you would use that externally as it's so sticky  

Quoted from Ribbit
....but some days I and my daughter get all itchy in the shower.  Would chlorine do that?  We use all-natural soap and shampoo (if you want to call Sodium Laureth Sulfate natural).


I have this problem too but mainly in the winter. We have a cheap filter on the water as it enters the house. It does filter chlorine, but not as much as I'm sure I'd like. I use only the goats milk soap from WF, can't think of the name, tho I do think it starts w/ a Z.  and I use only shampoo that doesn't contain SLS, so for me it has to be the water. For the reason of avoiding chlorine, I rarely swim in pools. Such a shame as it's such good exercise. I do hear there is a more natural product in the works, but I imagine it will be many years before public pools such as the YMCA use that.     I have read many articles saying how much chlorine is absorbed in a daily shower. Think what a daily swim would do.  



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Ribbit
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, for the days when we jumped in the local "swimmin' holler" and all we had to worry about were leaches, snakes and swimmer's ear.  

My husband said that at least here in Atlanta they occasionally "shock" the system with an extra dose of all the chemicals if they've found some bacterial overgrowth.  Some days the water straight from the tap smells so strongly of chlorine it's repulsing.  It's like pool water.  He did say, though, that chlorine evaporates, so when I water all my plants I just let the water sit out a few hours firstt.  I can't wait till we move to the country and have well water (we'll have to get it tested, I'm sure, to make sure it's not pesticide-laden).....it's in the works!  Maybe within the next year we'll have a house in the country.  

That's a great site, Drive.  Thanks for posting the links.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Cynthia
Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thank you everyone for responding to my concern.  I guess I'll have to think of something to do with all that agave syrup I have in my cupboard.  I did noticed that when ever I ate anything with agave syrup in it it made my mouth very dry.  My husband's not going to be happy about that.  Dr. D's protien bars are made with agave syrup.  I wish I had a microscope so I could put agave syrup with some blood cells under it and see what happens.
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italybound
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 3:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cynthia, have you been over to GTD and posted your concern?
I really have a hard time believing Dr D would use it in the bars or list it as neutral if there were problems like is being suggested in that book. Maybe Dr D will come on and adress this issue before you get rid of it all.
Curious, have you tried the blue agave? I have used it in the past but haven't paid alot of attention between that and the Madhava (I think it's called)  What I buy says it's 100% agave, but it is from Mexico, so maybe I'll stick w/ the blue agave. I usually buy the other because it's cheaper, but what they hey?  



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Cynthia
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 6:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My original concern wasn't that it might be diluted with corn syrup, but that the known effects of the agave plant include disintegration of red blood cells, depression of the central nervous system and cellular damage.   My syrup says it's 100% pure agave, and it's pretty thin.  I would think that corn syrup would make it thicker.
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Curious
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 8:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from italybound
Curious, have you tried the blue agave?

Agave is not very common in the health food shops in Australia (or at least where I live). The one I have got is called 'organic agave nectar' and it is from Mexico.

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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 2:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Corn syrup is an ingredient that, by US law, must be listed on the label.  Since I buy a USDA certified organic brand of agave nectar, and the only ingredient is:  "organic agave nectar", I do not worry in the slightest, especially since I wrote to the company about the corn syrup concerns a while back, and they wrote back and said that they are aware of the statements by one specific competitor that all other brands besides that one competitor contain corn syrup, but that they can assure me that their brand does NOT contain anything but pure, organic agave nectar.

I'm not worried about it in the slightest.  Cynical as I am about our food supply, corporations, and labeling, I truly believe that since the product is labeled as USDA certified organic, and as only containing agave, AND since the company assured me in writing that all it contains is agave, all it contains is, in fact, agave.

btw, the brand I buy is Sweet Cactus Farms (http://www.sweetcactusfarms.com)


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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teri
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 2:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Curious

Agave is not very common in the health food shops in Australia (or at least where I live). The one I have got is called 'organic agave nectar' and it is from Mexico.



Mexico is the only country currently producing agave nectar/syrup. It may get (re)packaged for distribution in other countries, but it all comes from Mexico.



I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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Cynthia
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What about my other concern: the disintegration of red blood cells, depression of the central nervous system, and cellular dammage?
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Vicki
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 6:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr. D lists sugar as an avoid for Type A non-secretors because it "provokes abnormal blood reaction".  I don't see it as a reason in the typebase right now, but I remember it being that way.

He doesn't list that as a reason for agave nectar, just neutral for all.

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teri
Thursday, January 24, 2008, 6:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 119
What about my other concern: the disintegration of red blood cells, depression of the central nervous system, and cellular dammage?


The article that I posted earlier does support Cheryl Townsley's health concerns re. agave. The culprit seems to be "fructose", though my interpretation of it all is that it is the unnaturally high fructose level in the "cooked" product that is the culprit. It seems safe enough to consume agave products if they are made from "raw" product, ie. "produced at a temperature lower than 1180F", which, on my bottle it says exactly that. It doesn't just say "raw", there is an explanation telling exactly how it was produced. The "cooked" version of agave syrup produces an extremely high (unnatural) fructose level. The fructose levels of each product can be verified at Nutrition Data. You can see the huge difference...

RAW (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c22bP.html)
COOKED (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c22bQ.html)

So, I'm of the conclusion that "raw" is the only way to go where agave is concerned. But that's not all - according to the article, anyone can put "raw" on the bottle, so, if there isn't a specific mention of producing methods on the bottle, I would investigate further.


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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Cynthia
Friday, January 25, 2008, 2:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thankyou Teri!  My agave syrup is the Madhava brand; it is USDA certfied organic raw, prossed at less than 115 degrees, so I guess now I'm back in business with agave syrup.  Yeah!!!!
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Cynthia
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 5:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I just thought of another question.  Agave syrup is safe if it is prosessed below 118 degrees, so if you cook with it at tempratures higher than that does that make it unsafe by creating the very high fructose?
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teri
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 119
I just thought of another question.  Agave syrup is safe if it is prosessed below 118 degrees, so if you cook with it at tempratures higher than that does that make it unsafe by creating the very high fructose?


Good question, Cynthia. How can we measure it? Unless Ribbit's husband is willing to take the test. But that's not even a good measurement because he doesn't know for sure what he's reacting to, the high fructose or the possible corn content in the agave. We need to know first whether he has different reactions to raw vs. cooked agave.

Quoted from Ribbit
We use Madhava brand, which is "USDA-certified organic."


Madhava distributes both cooked and raw syrup. Which is this?


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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Ribbit
Sunday, January 27, 2008, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It doesn't say, which probably means it's cooked.  

He doesn't have symptoms of Candida, although we have, in the past, traded the itchies.   Since I started using liquid chlorophyll, and thereby changing my body's pH, we haven't had itchies.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Cynthia
Sunday, January 27, 2008, 5:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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All the agave syrup I have is raw, certified organic Madhava, cooked at temps below 115 degrees.  I use it in my bread and I haven't noticed any kind of reactions.  What does the GTD say about agave syrup?
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teri
Sunday, January 27, 2008, 7:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The GTD doesn't say anything about it except to list its status for each genotype.


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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Squirrel
Wednesday, March 5, 2008, 3:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ribbit
He doesn't have symptoms of Candida, although we have, in the past, traded the itchies.   Since I started using liquid chlorophyll, and thereby changing my body's pH, we haven't had itchies.
When my hubbie and were put on the BTD it was for candida overgrowth. Neither of us had any symptoms. So you may have changed your body's pH but if he hasn't, he could still have the overgrowth without the symptoms. Just a thought.

And re: agave and blood issues, I think I'm of the opinion that provided it's corn-free and Dr. D still thinks it's neutral, then the small amount that goes into my daily cookie is not going to be a problem. That is provided I avoid my avoids and keep taking the Deflect. I think that sweating the small stuff can often cause worse dis-ease than eating possible baddies. If we acted on every article we read, we'd starve for sure.



Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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Crimson
Saturday, March 8, 2008, 2:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Peppermint Twist
Corn syrup is an ingredient that, by US law, must be listed on the label.  Since I buy a USDA certified organic brand of agave nectar, and the only ingredient is:  "organic agave nectar",
I'm not worried about it in the slightest.  Cynical as I am about our food supply, corporations, and labeling, I truly believe that since the product is labeled as USDA certified organic, and as only containing agave, AND since the company assured me in writing that all it contains is agave, all it contains is, in fact, agave.

btw, the brand I buy is Sweet Cactus Farms (http://www.sweetcactusfarms.com)




THAT is exactly what I was thinking on this.
I'm new to agave. But I enjoy it. I mix some of it with dark cocoa and have choc. rice milk! Good good stuff!
I think it makes the best chocolate milk!
It may just be my sweet tooth talking.

For those of you who would like to see some of the "controversy" on Agave...
http://www.amazon.com/All-Agav.....&asin=B000FMZMN8

My honest opinion is that this Volcanic Blue Agave company has likely paid someone to start rumors to up their sales.
Nothing modivates people more than fear.


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