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Agave or Vegetable Glycerin?  This thread currently has 4,083 views. Print Print Thread
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Gratefulrose
Sunday, February 26, 2006, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi all, Im an O and wondering if a non-secretor can use either agave nectar or vegetable glycerin and still be following our regime. Thanks! In joy and protein...
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Patty Lee
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 9:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My understanding is that vegetable glycerine and agave are  neutrals for O nonnies.  Both are also low on the glycemic index, although I believe veggie glycerine is lower.  These are our only two real sweeteners.  


Dr D says this:
"Glycerine is the only effective humectant that can be used by non-secretors, since it can be shunted to either fat metabolism or glucose production, depending on metabolic status. Glycerine can be a carb on occasion, a fat precursor on occasion, a phosphoglyceride precursor on occasion, and it can simply pass through the body unused. For non-secretors, this is perfect. Thus, although it is there for moisture retention, it also tends to optimize fat<->carb<->fat conversion which is genetically a problem with non-secretors.
The mentor that introduced me to the concept that lectins can exert metabolic effects in hampering weight loss was fond of having his patients drink glycerine as a way 'prime' the conversion of fat cell bound glycerol back to glycogen-glucose. "


Welcome!


(formerly plhartless).

"One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well."
--Virginia Woolf
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from plhartless
My understanding is that vegetable glycerine and agave are neutrals for O nonnies. Both are also low on the glycemic index, although I believe veggie glycerine is lower. These are our only two real sweeteners.


Dr D says this:
"Glycerine is the only effective humectant that can be used by non-secretors, since it can be shunted to either fat metabolism or glucose production, depending on metabolic status. Glycerine can be a carb on occasion, a fat precursor on occasion, a phosphoglyceride precursor on occasion, and it can simply pass through the body unused. For non-secretors, this is perfect. Thus, although it is there for moisture retention, it also tends to optimize fat<->carb<->fat conversion which is genetically a problem with non-secretors.
The mentor that introduced me to the concept that lectins can exert metabolic effects in hampering weight loss was fond of having his patients drink glycerine as a way 'prime' the conversion of fat cell bound glycerol back to glycogen-glucose. "


Welcome!


Plhartless, I've been looking for that quote all morning! I did a search of the web site for "glycerin" and could not for the life of me FIND that quote! Could you please tell me where you found it? I'd like to post a link to it.  TIA!


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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slyparrot
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 10:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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What does carb-fat-carb problems mean?  


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italybound
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 3:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from plhartless
"Glycerine is the only effective humectant that can be used by non-secretors, since it can be shunted to either fat metabolism or glucose production, depending on metabolic status. Glycerine can be a carb on occasion, a fat precursor on occasion, a phosphoglyceride precursor on occasion, and it can simply pass through the body unused. For non-secretors, this is perfect. Thus, although it is there for moisture retention, it also tends to optimize fat<->carb<->fat conversion which is genetically a problem with non-secretors."



Welcome gratefulrose. You are definitely in for a treat on this forum!
Re: above - very interesting. What a versatile food.  I have tried it over and over and never really get the sweetness when used in things. I have tried it mostly in drinks. Is it just me? Seems like this aspect of V/G has been discussed in the past and it's a personal thing. Am I correct? I wish it was more satisfying for me. I'd love to switch to JUST the V/G for the above reasons.



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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 4:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Gratefulrose
Hi all, Im an O and wondering if a non-secretor can use either agave nectar or vegetable glycerin and still be following our regime. Thanks! In joy and protein...

Welcome, Gratefulrose!

Personally, I would use agave nectar and not vegetable glycerine (). Other good all-natural and compliant sweeteners for nonnies are the 100% fruit concentrates one can find at any HFS (health food store) nowadays, such as 100% blueberry concentrate (expensive!!!), 100% concord grape concentrate (far more reasonable), 100% black cherry concentrate, etc. Agave nectar is what is used in the NAP "Unibars" that are acceptable for all ABO types and secretor statuses (stati?), so you are definitely fine using that. It is currently not rated in the Typebase4 database, but I suspect that will change when the new book comes out (whenever that will be, I'm on the edge of my seat for "Eat Right for Your Genotype"...but I digress), although I don't know. I suspect a whole new slew of heretofore unrated foods will be rated and I would guess agave nectar would be up there at the top of the list, as us nonnies are always on the prowl for an allowable sweetener, and it is in the NAP bars.

ANYWAY, welcome again, and one more thing: as a general rule, if something is not rated one way or another in Typebase4, what most of us do is treat it as an "unknown", which means, go ahead and see how you do with it, but "proceed with caution". If you seem to notice any sort of reaction, from an addictive/allergy response, to blood sugar spikes/crashes, to tum-tum probs, to a stuffy nose, etc., then you can conclude that probably the thing in question is ultimately going to prove to be an avoid for you. If you have no reaction, hopefully it is neutral, and if it makes you feel totally revitalized and like dancing the jig, maybe it is a beneficial!

Many moons ago, I guessed correctly about the then-unrated nutritional yeast, for example, and sure enough, it turns out it IS beneficial for my O nonnie type (yay!).

(Edited to add: On the other hand, I never would have seen sunflower seeds coming as an avoid. Boo HOO! What a world, what a world...)

Again, welcome!

(Edited to add:  see, agave nectar is in the Unibars:  http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/BTstore/BTSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=NP050)


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Trixy
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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An O nonnie's experience...I found that I didn't have a good reaction to the agave nectar; too sweet...it affected me like sugar.  

For example: I made almond cookies using each and when I used the agave, while they tasted better, I became tired, had a headache, etc - the same as if I had eaten sugar...didn't feel well the rest of the day; had to sleep it off.

When I made the cookies using the glycerine, I felt fine.


Bea
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Sandra_Aruba
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 9:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from glittergal
An O nonnie's experience...I found that I didn't have a good reaction to the agave nectar; too sweet...it affected me like sugar.

For example: I made almond cookies using each and when I used the agave, while they tasted better, I became tired, had a headache, etc - the same as if I had eaten sugar...didn't feel well the rest of the day; had to sleep it off.

When I made the cookies using the glycerine, I felt fine.


I have the same. I react to agave nectar the way I react to sugar. I think it's an avoid for A nonnies.

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KimonoKat
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 10:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sandraruba


I have the same. I react to agave nectar the way I react to sugar. I think it's an avoid for A nonnies.



So that means you can't eat the Uni Bars, right?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Sandra_Aruba
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 4:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat


So that means you can't eat the Uni Bars, right?



I have never tried them, but if they have agave nectar I won't. It's too bad really because I like the taste of it.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sandraruba



I have never tried them, but if they have agave nectar I won't. It's too bad really because I like the taste of it.


Yes, it's really nice.  Since I'm fighting candida, I've switched to vegetable glyverin though.  I thought Dr. D was originally going to make the UNI Bars with vegetable glycerin; I don't see veg. glycerin listed on the ingredients list of the package.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Carol the Dabbler
Friday, March 17, 2006, 12:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Do the Unibars specifically say that they're OK for nonnies?  Or just for "all 4 types"?

OK, here it is: "North American Pharmacal is very pleased to introduce the Chocolate Cherry Bar designated for all ABO types, including secretors and nonsecretors.

This healthy and tasty bar features Organic Agave Nectar which is known to have a low glycemic index resulting in a relatively slow uptake of sugar into the bloodstream."

So either the "sugar" reaction to agave is an individual thing, or there's some nonnie thing that hasn't been nailed down yet (which may explain why agave hasn't been added to Typebase yet).


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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Gratefulrose
Friday, March 17, 2006, 2:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I too seem to have a sugar pitch after agave intake. It effects my mind in a very addictive sort of way, if I have it around, I want it in or with everything
It is amazing what an intense response the body/mind endures after an avoid food is consumed! Very grateful for clarity and discovering ever anew! What do other folk do when an avoid food is eaten to help move it from the system? Lots of water, more greens? Pineapple juice? Any further tips?
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CB
Friday, March 24, 2006, 3:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've tried several veg glycerine's and agave and agave beats vg taste-wise.  Haven't had the sugar brain problem, but we are all different.  Take care.  CB.


In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins....not through strength,       but by perseverance.

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Cynthia
Sunday, January 20, 2008, 6:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I was reading some info in a book by Cheryl Townsley N.D. called the FOOD PUZZLE, agave syrup.  This book was published in 2001, and she highly recommends Dr. D's books.  What she says about agave syrup is that the know effects of the agave plant include disintegration of red blood cells, depression of the nervous system and cellular damage.   So since this info is about 8 yrs old, what I want to know is if there has been new info since then?

If Dr. D. by any chance reads this, is there any solid info on agave syrup?  Cheryl doesn't say where she got her info, but it's in her chapter on the Glycemic Index.  Is her info correct?
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teri
Sunday, January 20, 2008, 8:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Interesting, Cynthia. I have never heard this before, in fact I have never heard of agave syrup until about 2 months ago, but have since added it to my diet. So, I did a simple search just now and found this article claiming that, although the syrup is low glycemic, it is cooked at a very high temperature (too high to claim the status of "raw") which results in an extremely high (unnatural) fructose content, therefore, subject to many health problems...

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/agave.html

One other interesting point in this article is that there were some people who confirmed that corn syrup was added to the product before exporting to reduce cost.

As a result of this reading, I am going to leave it alone until I know more about it.


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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italybound
Sunday, January 20, 2008, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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  oh no!!!!!! I hope NONE of this is true, as it is the only sweetener I use!! I've recommended it to tons of people as well.     Dr D where are you?????
Wait, isn't agave a neutral in the Typebase4?  BRB...........
yes, yes, it is........ http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?600
That is a little comfort, but I'd still like to hear what Dr D has to say on the matter.



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Cynthia
Sunday, January 20, 2008, 10:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Yes,I was very alarmed when I read that, because the only other sweetener that's neutral to us O nonnies is molasses, and it's flavor overwhelms whatever you put it in.  I really hope there is more info on this, cause I have 10 bottles of agave syrup in my cupboard, and I've come up with so many recipes using it.
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Brighid45
Sunday, January 20, 2008, 11:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You have to be careful about the brand you use. This is the only one I buy:

http://www.blueagavenectar.com/

Other brands can have additives. Blue Agave doesn't. I use it all the time and it has never given me any problems.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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Ribbit
Monday, January 21, 2008, 1:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't feel bad when I eat agave, but then, I don't feel bad when I eat corn and all the derivatives thereof either.  But I just asked my husband, who has all along said, "Agave isn't good for me," how he feels when I do feed it to him.  He said, "I wake up the next morning with my hands stiff and aching."  That's his corn reaction.  Enough said?

You'd think the FDA would say, "If it's got corn syrup in it, it needs to be labeled correctly."  But how's the FDA to know if the guys in Mexico are dumping corn syrup into the agave vats and saying, "It's pure agave."  They wouldn't know.  That's the problem with shipping food in from other places.  Maybe when we move to the country I'll start an agave farm.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

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teri
Monday, January 21, 2008, 1:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Brighid45
You have to be careful about the brand you use. This is the only one I buy:

http://www.blueagavenectar.com/

Other brands can have additives. Blue Agave doesn't. I use it all the time and it has never given me any problems.


You might be right about this, at least I hope you are. But, like Ribbit says, how are we to know for sure? When you read an article like the one I posted earlier, it sure makes you wonder just who is telling the truth or who may not have done a thorough job in researching. I also buy only 'organic raw blue agave' but my brand is 'Wholesome Sweeteners', who, on their website also claims that theirs is the highest quality agave on the market. Wholesome also sells 'organic blue agave' which is sold as a different product than 'organic raw blue agave'. The 'raw' product is stated to be 100% pure and cooked at a lower temperature of 118oF. This contradicts the article. So who to believe?


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
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roller56
Monday, January 21, 2008, 2:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I also use organic raw blue agave and believe that it is pure and won't cause me any problems.  I have used it for quite  while and notice that if I use othe sweeteners, I feel a little stiff.

roler56


roller56
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Brighid45
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can only say that when I use Blue Agave, I don't get my usual reaction to corn or high fructose sweeteners--joint aches, swollen hands and feet, itchiness and swelling in lymph areas, blood sugar swings and headaches/mood swings. It doesn't bother me at all, actually, and I'm extremely sensitive to corn and corn products of all kinds.

Still, I try to keep my use of all sweeteners to absolute minimum as they tend to trigger binge eating and calorie Gathering.

If agave doesn't work for you or you suspect the source, try vegetable glycerine instead, or sweeten with stevia or compliant fruit juice.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison
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Ribbit
Monday, January 21, 2008, 12:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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We use Madhava brand, which is "USDA-certified organic."  But again, who's to say it's really organic?  The Mexican government, or the American government?  Does the US have workers on site to patrol what's happening?  How good a job would they do?


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Lloyd
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ribbit
We use Madhava brand, which is "USDA-certified organic."  But again, who's to say it's really organic?  The Mexican government, or the American government?  Does the US have workers on site to patrol what's happening?  How good a job would they do?


There are likely many things you take for granted on a day-to-day basis that require the same amount of faith, or more.
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