She's not built at all like her sister. DD1 is short and slender with  boobs. DD2 is super-short and muscular and has a larger bone structure than her sister. Her "ideal weight" is likely higher than DD1's, even though she's about 3 inches shorter.

I suggested that she follow her sister's SWAMI, at least for portion sizes, and her response was "I don't do well on that much fruit!" It would make as much sense for her to follow my SWAMI- it's still not individualized for her personally.

Geminisue: we've made meringue cookies in the past. They're dessert, not a high-protien snack. Our typical recipe uses about 2 egg whites to about a cup of sugar.

Goldie- I don't keep hard candy in the house and I'm not about to start now. The kind I'm willing to let my kids eat (without artificial colors or HFCS) isn't cheap. Nor would she self-regulate. I've had "all natural" candy in the house before, with the result that she'd keep grabbing candy all day long instead of eating real food. DS does the same thing. I now buy lollipops one at a time at the HFS for DS after I give him a haircut, and I'm now offering him an extra lollipop per month if he does all his homework. I'm not willing to keep sugary foods in the house all the time- BTDT and it didn't work.

The main problem is that she snacks all day, instead of eating proper meals. It's hard to know exactly how much of what she's eating. Sometimes it looks like her diet is great- she eats the veggie soups that are chock full of veggies and spices, dinner is meat and veggies and she won't even touch the rice, with fresh fruit for snacks, but then other times it looks like she's filling up on juice and chocolate chips and not getting nearly enough protein or veggies.

There's less than a week of school left, so I'm not overly worried about before-school breakfasts right now. I'm gathering ideas for next year, but over the summer she'll have time to wake up on her own schedule and then eat real food.

Quoted Text

Vegetables are carbs!!!!!!!! They are complex carbs and most people don't think about them that way. And I agree about cutting out sugar, sorry Goldie, sugar most certainly does put on the pounds.

so does a pound of steak..  

No change = no change..  

restrictions : the brain eventually will create cravings .. for a reason.. as a result of the body being in severe stress mode already.  

I am more concerned about her craving things some times.. and getting weak.. they go hand in hand for Hypoglycemia..

more than 3 or so fruits for that can become on issue. sliced frozen goes a longer way..

Vegetables make for differences as they are full of some vitamins and full of flavor and full of some minerals.. Many foods can be made as finger foods.. or platforms for other things, and they nourish / satiate for much longer. .  

Many are so sweet that they can substitute for sugar..  and be made ahead of eating time..

whole bake in toaster oven  them for 60 minutes on 425 .. yum with meats... mash it and it makes a thick sauce that satisfies.

sliced thick steam for a few minutes in table spoon of water, make pizza platforms..

sliced thin fried in little oil in minutes.. snacks fresh and salt free. Sprinkle plain trehalose for sweetening.

Maybe summer will make her have some time to cook fun foods, and come here and learn more.  

Artichoke
Asparagus with a little oil on a grill or in a grill pan.. Asparagus Peas
Bamboo Shoot
Bok Choy, Pak Choi
Broccoli
Celeriac
Celery ◊ stuffed with some soft cheese
Chicory with salad dressing dippChinese Kale, Kai-lan

Collard Greens ◊
Dandelion Greens ◊
Escarole ◊
Fennel love it in sclices fresh or cdooked

Fenugreek ◊
Fiddlehead Fern ◊
Garlic
Ginger sprinkeled on all sort of things.
Horseradish as dip or alone

Jerusalem Artichoke
Kale
Kohlrabi
Lettuce, Green Leaf, Iceberg
Mamey Sapote, Mammy Apple
Mushrooms, Black Trumpet
Mushrooms, Enoki
Mushrooms, Maitake
Mushrooms, Oyster
Mushrooms, Portobella
Mustard Greens
Okra ◊
Onion, all types ◊
Peppers, Bell stuffed wit rice or yams.. with onionsPeppers, Chili, Jalapeno ◊
Pimento
Pumpkin ◊ in soup or slices backed.. hard to cut
Rutabaga ◊ super delish fried

Sea Cucumber ◊
Sea Vegetables, Irish Moss
Sea Vegetables, Kelp, Kombu, Nori, Bladderwrack ◊
Sea Vegetables, Spirulina ◊
Sea Vegetables, Wakame
Shallots
Spinach ◊
Swiss Chard
Turnip Greens That is not turnips???  
Water Chestnut, Matai sweet with grated nuts sprinkled over it
Watercress
Yam delish in any form.. spiced or not.. as chips or bases for pizza
Zucchini .. all these make good liquid foods too

Hey Grey Rabbit, I find if my total carb count is above 40 grams per day, I will pack on the pounds really fast, that includes things like sweet potatoes, yams, bananas and plums.  If I control my carbs including those vegetables and fruits, I will maintain and lose weight if required.  

Again, all of us are different...

Quoted from jeanb

Hey Grey Rabbit, I find if my total carb count is above 40 grams per day, I will pack on the pounds really fast, that includes things like sweet potatoes, yams, bananas and plums.  If I control my carbs including those vegetables and fruits, I will maintain and lose weight if required.  

jeanb, I think that this is actually a common situation that many (if not most) Gatherers find themselves in.

Quoted from jeanb

Hey Grey Rabbit, I find if my total carb count is above 40 grams per day, I will pack on the pounds really fast, that includes things like sweet potatoes, yams, bananas and plums.  If I control my carbs including those vegetables and fruits, I will maintain and lose weight if required.  

Again, all of us are different...

I totally agree that we are all different, but sometime people forget that CHO does not equal just grains and sugar, CHOs are important fuels and should be adjusted for your type. I just don't like to see complex carbs lumped together with simple carbs. 40 g/day is really low, is the rest of your diet really just protein and fat????

Ruthiegirl, I'd have your daughter keep a food diary. There are several good web sites that can help with this. Perhaps when she sees what it is she is actually eating, she might be willing to adjust. This is a good site with a very large data base, even spelt products can be found.

Goldie, you need to watch this video if you think a pound of steak has the same affect on your body as a pound of sugar

Grey Rabbit,

My father's family have all died from complications of diabetes, so I wonder if I am "glucose" sensitive.  My mother's side Alzheimer's, so my swami is focused glycation removal.

You would be amazed at how many vegetables make up 40 grams of carbs per day, fruit usually gives me the runs and gives me a weird sugar rush, so vegetables, protein and fat is where it is at.  

No problems with my lipids (very good on the HDL as a matter of fact) very low triglycerides.

My husband (A warrior) eats exactly opposite of me to stay healthy and fit.  Our 0 kids are turning out to be like me.  Sugar affects them badly, as they get older, they are realizing a grain free diet keeps their skin clear as well.

I eat like you JeanB and I'm a Hunter. I'm about 40g carbs in vegetable and veg protein. I also have to keep my protein , especially red meat, fairly low to feel my best. No starch here. Not only does it pack on the weight, it doesn't feel right. I eat some beans and some nuts/seeds but not in large portions.

jeanb, I'm just very curious as to what you are eating, not making any judgments here. 40g of CHO is only 160kcals, that means if you consume 2000 kcal daily you are eating 1840 kcals of fat and protein. I'm just surprised and curious. Anything beyond 1.6g/kg of protein might be hard on the kidneys. I know that good fats and good meats will not cause you lipid problems.

I saw just last week that it was NOT true that a high protein diet gives you kidney problems.!!!
It has been withdrawn .
(it was not this link but here is somwthing about it
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/06/01/high-protein-low-carb-diet-safe-for-kidneys/)
I only worry when I see high protein low fat diets- that is a troublemaker ...

I tend to eat around 20 % of my calorires from protein and 20-40 % from carbs and 40-60 % fats
My numbers are great ( much better than when I followed a low fat vegetarian diet
and IF I stayed on that diet I would probably loose the last 10 kg. ...but I just love fruit and yoghurt too much to stay in that area but I prefer when I get around 50- 100 grams carbs pr day

Emma who is 17 and slim but well built
eats at least 50 % of her calories from fat   and 20-25 % protein  and 25-30 % carbs.
She used to eat lots of snacks but after she has started to eat more at bf she hardly snacks...

Ruthie
Would she eat a green juice instead of a sweet juice  maybe with some good oil added ?
so her blodsugar stays more stable.
I would reduce the sweet options and make sure she gets enough protein and fat in all meals
Some kind of exercise would be mandatory - especially now at holidays- might give her good habits when the new school year comes.
However I think
SHE needs to be the one that chooses to make the new habits
You can help her and show her better options but really it is her problem .

hugs - know this is hard...

HB, that's why I said "might" be hard on the kidneys, I do believe in individuality first and formost. At 40g of CHO per day, jeanb is only getting about 12% of her kcals from CHO, I'm just really wondering what she's eating, that's all.

I can't eat 2000 calories per day anymore.  In the throws of menopause which seems to mean less calories but not as hungry as I used to be.

AM 2 fried eggs in butter, a handful of nuts. Tea

Lunch, a large salad with meat or eggs or fish.  Salad dressing of some sort.

Snack - pea pods, celery, broccoli - a couple of handfuls through the afternoon or a handful of nuts depending on how busy I am.

Dinner - meat and a veggie/salad.  I tend to not eat anything in the evening (never have been a snacker) Winter, will be more of a soup/stew dinner.  

Meat makes me feel really satisfied.  Before I heard about this way of life, I used to eat more carbohydrates and less fat and meat.  I used to have dreams about prime rib roasts oozing with meat juice, those dreams happily went away when I started eating enough meat for what I need.

I am 5'1" and well into my 50's.  I don't ever get sick and seem to have more athletic injuries more than anything these days (fell off my bike last week when the dog took off after a moose with him attached to my bike, it was a very heavy fall, but no bruising). I take vitamins every day and exercise almost every day.  Not thin, still in a size 8-10.

I think there was a discussion years ago on this board about "hard on kidneys."  My sister, the ICU nurse, has told me it is only people with severe kidney disease who have to watch their protein intake...

GR, I have to say, that we often see others through our own lenses.  In other words, my A husband can't believe that I love meat so much.  He feels awful if he eats meat, so he can't understand how well I feel when I eat it even though he understands the blood type diet.

He loves fish, I eat it because I know I should, but I am usually hungry after I eat it.  It feels like I need a whole salmon to feel satisfied, but my husband only needs 4 oz.  He needs rice and complex carbs or else he feels hungry all the time.  Complex carbs make me feel hungry.

This is why nutrition science is so contradictory and non conclusive as we all react differently to our food.  Yes I follow my Swami, but I need to tweek it, especially as I get older.  

I would suggest you read Gary Taube's books, he gives some of those nutrition studies a kick in the butt, by actually explaining all of the study's outcomes.  Very Dr. D like.  

Thanks jeanb, I don't really need to read more nutrition books, and I wasn't really questioning your wisdom with what you are eating, I was just curious. Unfortunately you didn't really satisfy my curiosity, you just listed the types of foods you eat and not the quantities. Oh well, doesn't really matter, I'm glad you have found what works for you.

GR, I don't really know the quantities, a few years back I had an online program where I put in everything I ate, and I learned that if I went above 40 gms of carbs, I put on weight quickly. The total calories varied greatly by day, I think the biggest days were about 2500 cal and the normal days were about 1600-1800.  When I stayed 40 gms and below in carbs and didn't pay attention to total calories, I had no problems with my weight.  

I watch use my swami and watch grams of carbs that is pretty much it.  I eat more on the weekends and less during the week when I am working.  If I am feeling hungry, I eat more meat and fat.  

Henrietta - great to hear that kidney+protein connection has been withdrawn & thanks for the link!! I certainly never seem to get any kidney problems & I eat high protein - in fact almost identical to you Jean!! If I stay under a certain level of carbs & up my fat I lose weight, if my carbs go up & fat down I gain!! & like you Jean I rarely snack doing that - just don't have the desire/appetite for it, which is really great having previously been a grazer most of my life
In the last 3 weeks, I have eaten Lindt 80% dark choc & 2 squares will satisfy me just to round off a meal... Conversely the higher carb ones (even at 70%) I actually crave more of & find it hard not to indulge!! So I have finally proved to myself, that even if I spend more on the Lindt, my choc budget stays absolutely the same
I guess it is the same as me eating more expensive & more satiating meat - I need way less of that too?!

Quoted Text

Goldie, you need to watch this video if you think a pound of steak has the same affect on your body as a pound of sugar

I did not see the link..

As for sugar I never ate a pound of it even in my heydays of when I was a size 5 and could eat all I wanted.. I ate many a pastry, and many a pound of meat, and never gained until I got married at 21..

As for kids, I took on 3 teen, dysfunctional ones that had no parenting, and sometimes ate paper for food...  In my house of plenty, they could eat the hard candy, and all the fruit they liked.. after the first week they no longer fought over bananas and ate fresh cooked food.. the choices they made where theirs and they learned very quick.. strangely the hard candy even got old and the bowl only needed to be refilled - by the pound- ONCE.. I never bought soda, but made juices and cooked compliant for O's.


As for eating .. under 60 carbs.. NO counting required.

Breakfast 1-2 eggs depending on size, smidgen butter, decaf, cocoa in water plain.
Morning snack , grapefruit 1 oz in a glass of water.
Lunch, a plate full of any one vegetable listed below - with meat ...
Afternoon snack attack, icecrem-cone single-scoop, or chocolate, or papaya, in fruit, or pineapples, or berries, or nuts.
Dinner another type of vegetable plate full, and top-round steak (I try to eat only one type of vegetable at any meal.)

Here my choice of veggies to be found in my house any day:  
SUPER FOODS  

Asparagus
Broccoli
Celery ◊
Escarole ◊
Fennel -seldom
Kale -seldom
Kohlrabi -seldom
Lettuce, Green Leaf, Iceberg - used to be avoid
Onion, all types ◊
Peppers, Bell
Pumpkin ◊ - seldom
Rutabaga ◊ - seldom
Spinach ◊
... Yam   - seldom
Zucchini

NEUTRALS seldom
Avocado,  
Beets,
Belgium Endive  
Lettuce, Romaine - used to be Beneficial..
Sweet Potato  

My so called 'cheats' are some slice of cheese, or on a bad day extra fruits - prunes, raisins, dates or salad dressings when out of the house....

So you see, life is good.. If I drank more water, it would be even better. ...
less then 1500 calories but then I am on 'old' lady and need to watch my figure.
As a kid I ate way more food.

As for carbs from grains, beans, dairy.. they make me starving.. wanting me to do endless eating..  

.

Hey Possum,

I am with you on the chocolate, if I have cheap milk chocolate, I will continue eating it without getting satisfied.  When I eat Lindt chocolate, I only need 2-3 squares and I don't need more.  

I wonder if the fat makes us satisfied so we don't need more food...sugar and grainy carbs make us crave more sugar and grainy carbs.

Goldie - I guarantee if you had more than a "smidge of butter" as well as some vegs in the morning with your egg (even if just lettuce - goes so well chopped with eggs & a "smidge" of chili sauce) & again more fat at lunch, you would not have the need for a "snack attack" in the afternoon, especially that sugar laden icecream

Ppl usually only crave sugar if their blood sugar is low, which is the very worst thing for them to eat right then... If you lowered those carbs, upped the fat & even decreased the meat, if you did need anything you may well be happy with another small piece of meat in a lettuce leaf with a 'smidge" of a good complaint low carb (not low fat) mayonaise

Is life good on 1500 cals - after all you are the one bemoaning how you can't shift the extra pounds??!! Staying under 40 carbs (or even under 30 initially, for those of us that have diabetes in the family) is not a bad thing & you still don't need to count much...

Btw those cheat salad dressings have a phenomenal amount of carbs in them & will certainly pack on the pounds on some of us, or at least certainly keep you from losing!!

Quoted from jeanb

Hey Possum,

I am with you on the chocolate, if I have cheap milk chocolate, I will continue eating it without getting satisfied.  When I eat Lindt chocolate, I only need 2-3 squares and I don't need more.  

I wonder if the fat makes us satisfied so we don't need more food...sugar and grainy carbs make us crave more sugar and grainy carbs.

Hi Jean - I haven't checked the fat content of the Lindt but I wasn't even eating cheap milk choc... My second choice was a good 70% cocoa (around 50g carbs per 100g) Whittakers choc (made in NZ) & even that made me crave more... I think I am particularly carb sensitive

Quoted from jeanb

I wonder if the fat makes us satisfied so we don't need more food...sugar and grainy carbs make us crave more sugar and grainy carbs.

I know that it's true for me.

Possum,  The above was just to show that below 60 carbs is doable for O's -

For when I chose to stay the same weight.. I am ok..

But to drop weight, I need to go way restricted in everything... for a life long time. Then I have to really go to 3-4 oz measured meat 2 times a day, 2-3 cups green watery veggies twice, 1-2 small or half's of fruit and nothing more..    

Vegetables in the morning..I am not that hungry...   I would quicker have some broth, I have enough energy until noon..
It is by the afternoon that I run out of emotional energy and look for 'something' to keep me 'up'.  
It is then that I feel 'hungry' if not deprived.  What I never did, is to cook a third meat and veggies meal..like 11... 3 and 6...and add more oil that way...  I think I could balance it by cutting the meats off the other meals.  Need to try that and see if there is a fat I could learn to love.  Mayo is avoid.. but I recently posted the possibility of adding oil to a hardboiled egg and mash it.. I need to try making that..

On a day when I eat some avoid, I have to give up some other food... or I go up in weight fast.  like with Ice cream..

Nutrition Facts  
Serving Size 1 cone and single scoop (or 1 small cone)  
Amount Per Serving
Calories from Fat 67   Calories 173  

That is why I am trying to come up with alternatives like frozen pineapple, and mash it with 1 oz of farmer cheese or quark and a little ice, or some banana slices and the chesses I am allowed - 4-6 oz a week.... But the jury is out on that but with summer here it will be important to find some such things.

FOR THE DAUGHTER however, as a teen she needs to eat way more just for her health.  Big difference from older people.. yet when overweight I think going low carb might work???? .. if she so desires... might be the only way to learn about foods.. Low fat is out.. so is low salt.. so is starving.

--At her age I did not need to worry, I ate 3 oz cold cuts by hand while doing my daily shopping at the butcher,(they all knew of my habits), a small chocolate bar (Maestrani Stengeli) at the baker while buying a fresh backed loaf of bread, a fruit while shopping at the grocery store and then I went home to cook... 2-3 creamy pastries in the afternoon or bread butter and jam or chese... On Friday's we had pizza-size slices of fruit or cheese with onions on thin crust..(ask Amazon l ... she will confirm that way of eating -at home.) mmmmhhhh  ... aah Life was different then.  I lived the good life then, never needed to think of 'what kind of' food to eat.  I have lived in the best of times.. I wish every teenager the same.. I never talked about food then.. no one else did either.. I  think it was impolite to tell anyone what or when to eat.  Time / food has changed.