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Nonnies and Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase  This thread currently has 2,351 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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I am re-reading LR4YT for about the third time, and each time, I am stumped by the concept of nonnies having lower intestinal alkaline phosphatase, which makes protein and fat more difficult to break down, and the fact that Dr. D gives O non-secretors MORE meat servings than secretors but less fat servings in the book.

I do have a SWAMI, and actually I get very little red meat - only three servings per week - as opposed to fish - seven servings per week.  This seems to be in direct contradiction to LR4YT.  I only get six one tablespoon servings of fat/oil per week.

So here are my questions:

If O nonnies (and nonnies in general) have less IAP, why are they given more meat than secretors in the book?

Are all nonnies equal in their lack of IAP, or would A's have the least and O's have the most of the non-secretor population?

How does the inability to break down animal protein and animal fat impact cholesterol?

Is oil from plant sources, such as olive oil, easier to break down or does the lack of IAP make it difficult to break down all fats, regardless of the source?  What about ghee?

I am really focused on lowering my cholesterol, as my cardiologist wants to put me on a statin, so this is very important to me.




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C_Sharp
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
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Quoted from Patty H


So here are my questions:

If O nonnies (and nonnies in general) have less IAP, why are they given more meat than secretors in the book?

IAP is not the only factor in meat recommendations.
Quoted Text

Are all nonnies equal in their lack of IAP, or would A's have the least and O's have the most of the non-secretor population?


I am currently transitioning from one office to another office, I do not have access to all my resources. So do not use my percentages!!   They are made up.

As I recall nonsecretors have like 23% percent of the IAP of secretors.

But Os start with a much higher level of IAP than people with type A.
So if type Os with five?? times the level of IAP,  After losing about 77%
for being a non-secretor, they might have an IP level similar
to an A secretor.

Type As start with little IAP and if a nonsecretors loses 77%,
they are going to have very low low IAP levels.



Quoted Text


I am really focused on lowering my cholesterol, as my cardiologist wants to put me on a statin, so this is very important to me.



The cholesterol numbers may be what is important to your cardiologist, but there are other measures that may be more predictive of whether you will have a heart attack.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 4:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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also cholesterol levels in Os may be higher than in As.....and I believe your Dr
is seeing those levels through a one size fit all lens

write down your levels here.....we ll help you determine if actually high, considering your physiology or in fact NOT


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 4:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted Text
IAP is not the only factor in meat recommendations.


But it must be factored in, yes?  Does eating meat help stimulate IAP production, even in non-secretors?

Quoted Text
As I recall nonsecretors have like 23% percent of the IAP of secretors.

But Os start with a much higher level of IAP than people with type A.
So if type Os with five?? times the level of IAP,  After losing about 77%
for being a non-secretor, they might have an IP level similar
to an A secretor.


Interesting!  Could this be why my SWAMI gives me more than double the servings of fish per week over meat and double the amount of fish per week over poultry?  Because my digestive system is more like that of an A?

Do you think the heart disease in my family drives the large amount of fish I am given and the small amount of fat/oil?  I also assume that fish is easier to digest than red meat, yes?

I would love to hear from other O nonnies who have heart disease in their family and are on SWAMI.  I seem to be the only one I know on this forum who gets so much more fish.  Not that I mind - I love fish!

Quoted Text
The cholesterol numbers may be what is important to your cardiologist, but there are other measures that may be more predictive of whether you will have a heart attack.


I agree!  There are other things they are tracking, such as my C-Reactive Protein, blood sugar, blood pressure & triglycerides.  Are there other things you recommend I track?  I have another comprehensive set of blood tests scheduled for September and my PCP is very willing to work with me on these things.


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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 5:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
also cholesterol levels in Os may be higher than in As.....and I believe your Dr
is seeing those levels through a one size fit all lens

write down your levels here.....we ll help you determine if actually high, considering your physiology or in fact NOT


Here are the last six years - all fasting:

3/31/2011
Total Cholesterol = 258
HDL = 68
LDL = 174
TG = 82

GLU = 94
CRP Cardio = 2.7
SGPT (ALT) = 34

1/24/2011
Total Cholesterol = 224
HDL = 71
LDL = 143
TG = 82

CRP Cardio = 1.1

9/22/2010
Total Cholesterol - 225
HDL = 62
LDL = 143
TG = 102

GLU = 98
CRP Cardio = 3.9
SGPT (ALT) = 17

11/7/2006
Total Cholesterol = 255
HDL = 68
LDL = 169
TG = 88

GLU = 88
SGPT (ALT) = 12

According to Dr. D's book on cardiac disease, he likes O's to have a total cholesterol of 225 or less.  He does not mention a benchmark for LDL.


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LindaB
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Wow good thread Patty...I didn't know this about O non secretors, but I can tell you my digestion is not very good. I so wish I could be a vegetarian. My cholesterol numbers are high as well. Lola can you help interpret mine. I only eat SF's and/or diamonds...honey is the only neutral, and only a tsp a day. NO avoids. These results were in Sept. 2010. In May of 2010 my cholesterol was 303.

I was on a mostly Paleo diet which included 50gms of protein a day, low carbs, non sweet fruits and veggies, so while I use SWAMI now, I was mostly eating foods that are on my list, it's just that now I know which are ok and which are not.

Cholesterol = 285
Triglycerides = 195
HDL = 96
LDL = 150

Thanks
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14428
Wow good thread Patty...I didn't know this about O non secretors, but I can tell you my digestion is not very good. I so wish I could be a vegetarian. My cholesterol numbers are high as well. Lola can you help interpret mine. I only eat SF's and/or diamonds...honey is the only neutral, and only a tsp a day. NO avoids. These results were in Sept. 2010. In May of 2010 my cholesterol was 303.

I was on a mostly Paleo diet which included 50gms of protein a day, low carbs, non sweet fruits and veggies, so while I use SWAMI now, I was mostly eating foods that are on my list, it's just that now I know which are ok and which are not.

Cholesterol = 285
Triglycerides = 195
HDL = 96
LDL = 150

Thanks


Linda, it is really great to see your numbers are going down.   Do you have heart disease in your family?  Can you tell me how many servings of meat, poultry and fish you get per week, broken down by each category per SWAMI?  How many servings of fat/oil per week?  I am really curious as to why I am a Hunter who gets mostly fish.  


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C_Sharp
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H

I do have a SWAMI, and actually I get very little red meat - only three servings per week - as opposed to fish - seven servings per week.  This seems to be in direct contradiction to LR4YT.  I only get six one tablespoon servings of fat/oil per week.


Book recommendations for Hunters:

3-5 servings red meat
4 servings Fish
3-9 tablespoons fat

Numbers which are fairly similar to yours.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp


Book recommendations for Hunters:

3-5 servings red meat
4 servings Fish
3-9 tablespoons fat

Numbers which are fairly similar to yours.


Except I get seven servings of fish and only three of red meat.  I seem to be the only Hunter I know who is supposed to eat mostly fish.  I'm just curious and wondering if other Hunters get more fish than meat.  

Also, I was referring to LR4YT.  O Caucasian non-secretors get 7-12 servings of red meat per week and 4-5 serving of fish per week, while Caucasian secretors get 6-9 servings of red meat per week and 3-5 serving of fish per week.

My SWAMI is opposite LR4YT - and again I am wondering if the heart disease in my family drives the outcome.


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LindaB
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Patty I was a Hunter until I changed my caffeine to sensitive and then I became an Explorer. Here are the meats portions for both:
Hunter
red meat 4 x a week
Poultry 3 x a week
Fish 6 x a week

Explorer
red meat 3 x a week
Poultry 4 x a week
fish 4 x a week

Cholesterol I've been struggling with for 20+ years...will never get on statins. Yes my mother has heart disease and my grandfather died from heart disease. I think you and I should be hitting the red wine...
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14428
Patty I was a Hunter until I changed my caffeine to sensitive and then I became an Explorer. Here are the meats portions for both:
Hunter
red meat 4 x a week
Poultry 3 x a week
Fish 6 x a week

Explorer
red meat 3 x a week
Poultry 4 x a week
fish 4 x a week

Cholesterol I've been struggling with for 20+ years...will never get on statins. Yes my mother has heart disease and my grandfather died from heart disease. I think you and I should be hitting the red wine...


I assume you checked off Family Heart Disease in your SWAMI?  I also assume that your grandfather was your mother's father or do you have heart disease on both sides?

I don't plan on taking a statin either.  I may consider red yeast rice at some point.  My cardiologist is really pushing a statin.  I am also curious about a Hunter who eats mostly fish.  I see you had more fish too as a Hunter with family heart disease.  

And YES!!!  I hit the red wine - two glasses per day according to my cardiologist!!!  Funny, too, it is a genoharmonic combination with all but one of my genoharmonic foods, which is Sesame Oil, so who cares!      I DO love my SWAMI.  


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LindaB
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Patty H


I assume you checked off Family Heart Disease in your SWAMI?  I also assume that your grandfather was your mother's father or do you have heart disease on both sides?

I don't plan on taking a statin either.  I may consider red yeast rice at some point.  My cardiologist is really pushing a statin.  I am also curious about a Hunter who eats mostly fish.  I see you had more fish too as a Hunter with family heart disease.  

And YES!!!  I hit the red wine - two glasses per day according to my cardiologist!!!  Funny, too, it is a genoharmonic combination with all but one of my genoharmonic foods, which is Sesame Oil, so who cares!      I DO love my SWAMI.  


on the wine!! One good thing about being a non-secretor!! Yes my mother's father, and I checked heart disease on my Swami. As an Explorer I only get 4 servings of fish, even though my family hx is the same. I think that's because of the toxins/contaminants in fish these days.. Ok going for a bit of the red...that's sure to make me feel better one way or the other...
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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14428


on the wine!! One good thing about being a non-secretor!! Yes my mother's father, and I checked heart disease on my Swami. As an Explorer I only get 4 servings of fish, even though my family hx is the same. I think that's because of the toxins/contaminants in fish these days.. Ok going for a bit of the red...that's sure to make me feel better one way or the other...


Just do it!!!  


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Patty H
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 8:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14428


on the wine!! One good thing about being a non-secretor!! Yes my mother's father, and I checked heart disease on my Swami. As an Explorer I only get 4 servings of fish, even though my family hx is the same. I think that's because of the toxins/contaminants in fish these days.. Ok going for a bit of the red...that's sure to make me feel better one way or the other...


Dr. Nash is testing me for heavy metals, at my request, because I eat so much fish and have been a big fish eater my whole life.  I have to wait until next week, however, because you cannot eat fish for a week before the testing.   I am not looking forward to a week without fish  


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O in Virginia
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 2:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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3x week red meat
3x week poultry
4x week fish
6x week eggs

I often eat more than those recommended frequencies, but not all at once in the same week.  Some weeks I eat more fish, some weeks more red meat.  It depends how I feel, what my body seems to want.  Since starting BTD/swami, I never have indigestion or heartburn, which was once an almost chronic condition for me.  I digest (compliant) animal protein and fats just fine, apparently, despite my non-secretor status.  Wheat, corn, oats, and dairy are what I have to stay away from.
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Patty H
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 1:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from O in Virginia
3x week red meat
3x week poultry
4x week fish
6x week eggs

I often eat more than those recommended frequencies, but not all at once in the same week.  Some weeks I eat more fish, some weeks more red meat.  It depends how I feel, what my body seems to want.  Since starting BTD/swami, I never have indigestion or heartburn, which was once an almost chronic condition for me.  I digest (compliant) animal protein and fats just fine, apparently, despite my non-secretor status.  Wheat, corn, oats, and dairy are what I have to stay away from.


Interesting - the Explorer diet seems to be more balanced with the different type of protein servings, whereas the Hunters get more fish.  I did not expect Hunters to have more fish, but when Linda was a hunter, her protein servings were similar to mine.  Now that she is an Explorer, hers are the same as yours.

Doesn't it seem strange that Hunters get more fish?  I don't think that is the perception of a lot of us on the forum.  I assumed I was unusual and that it must have been my family history of heart disease.


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Jane
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Linda,
I think your high cholesterol readings are skewed by the extremely high good cholesterol.  150 is high for the LDL but it's not that bad I don't think and 96 HDL is spectacular.
Jane
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LindaB
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 4:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Jane
Linda,
I think your high cholesterol readings are skewed by the extremely high good cholesterol.  150 is high for the LDL but it's not that bad I don't think and 96 HDL is spectacular.
Jane


hah...now there's some good news!! My doctor was pretty excited about that HDL as well... Thanks, Jane  
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C_Sharp
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 4:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
There are other things they are tracking, such as my C-Reactive Protein, blood sugar, blood pressure & triglycerides.  Are there other things you recommend I track?  




Since they are already tracking crp I would probably just go with that.

A few other things that are sometimes done:

measuring the size and density of LDL particles
measuring Apo-B levels
Measuring coronary calcium artery calcium score

I do not know that any of these are worth the cost.

As far as prevention, it may well be that exercise would be more effective than additional tests.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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balletomane
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 4:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty H, you're not alone. I am an O Nonnie Hunter and I get exactly the same types of animal protein servings as you do.

Yes, heart disease does run in my mother's side of the family. But her side has more Type B's while I get my blood type from my dad. Don't know if that makes any difference but anyway, I get 7 servings of fish a week.


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Patty H
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 5:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp




Since they are already tracking crp I would probably just go with that.

A few other things that are sometimes done:

measuring the size and density of LDL particles
measuring Apo-B levels
Measuring coronary calcium artery calcium score

I do not know that any of these are worth the cost.

As far as prevention, it may well be that exercise would be more effective than additional tests.


Thank you, C Sharp.  I did have a coronary artery calcium scoring done and it came back with ZERO, which is amazing.  A local hospital offers the service for $50, so my doctor recommended I do it.  In the process, they found a large cyst on my lung - non-cancerous, so that worked out well, too.

I had asked about
Quoted Text
measuring the size and density of LDL particles
[/b] but I don't know what the test is called or where to get it done.  Does it have a name that I could tell my PCP?

Also, what is
Quoted Text
measuring Apo-B levels
[b]
and does that test have a certain name?

I am exercising 5-6 days a week, running three miles and lifting light weights, doing ab stuff, etc.  My blood pressure seems much better since I started exercising, so I am hoping it impacts my cholesterol and LDL specifically.

I am very grateful for the recommendations!  Thank you!!!


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C_Sharp
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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More tests may not be what you need.

Info on APO-B test:

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/apob/tab/test

LDL particle size assessment

http://www.centerforpreventivemedicine.com/04114med_messenger.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-mchi/6264.html?rss-feedid=4

Alternate names particle size assessment tests:

NMR LipoProfile
LipoPrint
Berkeley HeartLab test
Vertical Auto Profile(VAP)



MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Patty H
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 7:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
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Thanks for the info, C Sharp.  If my cardiologist is still pushing a statin, then I think the particle size assessment might be a good option.


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O in Virginia
Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Patty H


Interesting - the Explorer diet seems to be more balanced with the different type of protein servings, whereas the Hunters get more fish.  I did not expect Hunters to have more fish, but when Linda was a hunter, her protein servings were similar to mine.  Now that she is an Explorer, hers are the same as yours.

Doesn't it seem strange that Hunters get more fish?  I don't think that is the perception of a lot of us on the forum.  I assumed I was unusual and that it must have been my family history of heart disease.


That's what my SWAMI gives me.  If we're talking Genotype Diet...

Hunters...
Red meat 3-5x week
Poultry 2-4x week
Fish AT LEAST 4x week
Eggs 7-9x wek
Cheese 3x week

Explorers...
Red meat 2-3x week
Poultry 1-3x week
Fish 3x week for first 3 months, then 4x thereafter
Eggs 5-7x week
Dairy 3-5x week

I suppose Explorers would get a lot more fish if they didn't have liver issues?  Thinking about fish and toxicity.  I would imagine Hunters are encouraged to eat wild caught fish, as opposed to farmed fish.  I notice their poultry frequences are pretty low.  
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TJ
Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm coming in late here, I know, but isn't IAP concerned with fat digestion and absorption specifically, rather than meat generally?
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