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Nonnies and Leaky Gut (intestinal Alkaline Phosphi  This thread currently has 2,752 views. Print Print Thread
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Symbi
Saturday, January 23, 2010, 1:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Was searching internet for IAP and found this interesting abstract:

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/9/3551.abstract

It says that Intestinal alkaline phosphatase is a gut mucosal defense factor maintained by enteral nutrition (feeding into the stomach).  

From this it makes me wonder a few things:

First, it's interesting that they've been using enteral feeding for many years without understanding how it works.  They noticed that it worked better than an IV I guess.  Imagine how much more we will know in even 10 years?

Since IAP levels are lower in nonnies (http://drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Intestinal_Alkaline_Phosphatase_%28IAP%29), is this one of the reasons why nonnies are more prone to leaky gut?  

Quoted Text
It is likely that the IAP silencing that occurs during starvation is a key component of the gut mucosal barrier dysfunction seen in critically ill patients.


Well I never like to fast (reactive hypoglacemia) and wonder if nonnies should never fast.  If fasting inactivates your IAP and lowers your stomach mucosal defences, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  

Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage!

Just looked through some blood tests and see that my Serum Alkaline Phosphitase is always low.  Normal range is 30 - 115.  Mine has been: 50 in Dec,40 in Aug, 51 in May, 45 in Dec.  Strange hey.  Wikipedia says that it's not commonly low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase.  Sounds like further proof of non-secretorhood.  Will become a card carrying member soon (confirm) promise.

Any other nonnies know their serum Alk Phosp results to compare?  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

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Symbi  -  Saturday, January 23, 2010, 2:18am
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Lola
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let s find out your secretor status first!


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Possum
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Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage! Goodluck with that!!! Been wondering how you were going...
Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine...
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Lloyd
Saturday, January 23, 2010, 12:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Symbi


Just looked through some blood tests and see that my Serum Alkaline Phosphitase is always low.  Normal range is 30 - 115.  Mine has been: 50 in Dec,40 in Aug, 51 in May, 45 in Dec.  Strange hey.  Wikipedia says that it's not commonly low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase.  Sounds like further proof of non-secretorhood.  Will become a card carrying member soon (confirm) promise.

Any other nonnies know their serum Alk Phosp results to compare?  


Serum Alkaline phosphatase does not predict Intetinal Alkaline phosphatase.

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Symbi
Sunday, January 24, 2010, 1:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Possum
Yikes!  In the next few days I have to go on a low residue and then a liquid diet before my colonoscopy so wish me luck!  Will be making some green juices recipees I got off you guys and straining them (in the blender).  Will get a juicer hopefully at a later stage! Goodluck with that!!! Been wondering how you were going...
Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine...


Hi Possum,  Yep it's finally happening, I can't wait to get it over with.  That's great that you're getting blended, I mean using your blender.   So far, I've made breadcrumbs and milkshakes.  I tried to make green juice one day but didn't realise you need to add liquid!  
So the lettuce just sat there and the blades spun furiously at nothing!  lol  Well I didn't know!

Going to make some homemade chicken soup (to strain off), homemade lemon cordial (can't get any cordial without preservatives   for my liquid diet.  I have some glutamine powder to help the gut repair process after the procedure too.  I'm also having a gastroscopy, looking down the throat and that scares me more to swallow something down there, more than the other!

Lola, I'll get my blood test soon honest, just been avoiding the doctors (and busy with DD at home) cos I've felt too good to go there lately    





INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Possum
Sunday, January 24, 2010, 4:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Symbi
Hi Possum,  Yep it's finally happening, I can't wait to get it over with.  That's great that you're getting blended, I mean using your blender.   So far, I've made breadcrumbs and milkshakes.  I tried to make green juice one day but didn't realise you need to add liquid!  
So the lettuce just sat there and the blades spun furiously at nothing!  lol  Well I didn't know! lol!! Sort of thing I would do!!
Going to make some homemade chicken soup (to strain off), homemade lemon cordial (can't get any cordial without preservatives   for my liquid diet.  I have some glutamine powder to help the gut repair process after the procedure too.  I'm also having a gastroscopy, looking down the throat and that scares me more to swallow something down there, more than the other! Eeek Hope it isn't too uncomfortable
Lola, I'll get my blood test soon honest, just been avoiding the doctors (and busy with DD at home) cos I've felt too good to go there lately   Good you've been feeling well - I thought when we hadn't heard anything for a while that you weren't too good...
All the best!! Look forward to sharing the news!!

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Symbi
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Thanks Possum, I'll be spilling my guts on here about the news.   Hopefully just IBS not something worse (runs in my family  ) hey that's a double meaning accidental!  

We've been really busy with my Mum coming to stay with us for a week.  We had a great time at the zoo and jamming music.  I had one vodka and raspberry cordial - I think the preservatives didn't agree with me!   Can't believe all cordials have preservatives.  Made some lemon cordial last night - so I can have popsicles when on the liquid diet.   Now I'm on a low residue diet.  Fibre

Well if anyone can adapt to changing their diet, us BTD/GTD'ers are brilliant at it.  It's kind of fun. Won't be able to do GTD as well at this time though.  

At the same time we're getting used to hubby working nights and I'm preparing for G to start school on the day before the colonoscopy (Wednesday).  Mixed feelings on that one   .  You should see how big the backpack looks on her! precious.


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Amazone I.
Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 7:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Symbi, how was the examination Hope all went well and you are ok right now ...


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Symbi
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Thanks gentle, sweet amazone.  I'm on a liquid diet only today and will be having the procedure tomorrow, will let you all know how it goes.  Will be glad to get it all over and done with.  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Possum
Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 10:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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All the best!! Jokes flying still I see   I could say we will be waiting with baited breath - or is that held breath??
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Lyod,

Do you mean that there are no studies or findings correlating IAP with SAP? Though they are not the same thing, sure, can they not be correlated at all? One suspected nonny that I have in my circle too has SAP as low as 28 (the range is 33 to 115): is it just a coincidence? I tend to suspect that though they are two different things, they could be correlated well. Any idea as to how we measure IAP? Thanks for sharing ideas.



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Lloyd
Sunday, February 21, 2010, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You could try your hand from this search page or do your own: LINK

One of the linked pages is: LINK that may be the quickest info.
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Chandon
Sunday, February 21, 2010, 4:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Good luck with the procedures, Symbi. I know what you mean about the upper GI procedure. It sounds scary. They gave me a very mild sedative. I was definitely not aware of swallowing it at all nor aware of the procedure and then it was all finished. I haven't had a colonoscopy. I nearly did this summer, but promptly started the Teacher diet and found all my symptoms went away--even while I was on the wrong diet. My latest SWAMI is such a blend of the Teacher and Explorer diet, that I was still on the right track with the Teacher diet, when it comes to gut healing.

When I was doing the Explorer diet by the book, I was having GI problems. For me, it may have been due to certain avoids I didn't want to give up. Maybe for you, getting your secretor status and your SWAMI will really give you the tools you need to get rid of the IBS. I had had diverticulitis and thought it was coming back, but then they said it was likely just spasm. The things that probably contributed to it for me were spicy foods (hot chilies in various forms), tomatoes, and coconut milk. Plus I was drinking milk. You probably aren't eating those things on your diet. However, maybe it was all the whey protein I was using? That is now a toxin for me.
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Amazone I.
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being an explorer and havin to pass such examinations with all those meds.. people... I don't think it's valuable... better to go for the ultrasounds... much better for us !!!....
when I went with my ebf for all his treatments and tests, I really got nearly scrared.... if once upon the days I'd have to follow such a whatever... I'll die coz of the treatments first... for sure ...yiiikes... and they won't believe me, as usual...

hey madls and guyen...tell me a bit more about your stories of ok for meds...or better not !! .....nearly all allopathic meds are justamente doing the opposite to me... the same for you???
Once upon the times I tried only the half of a medication called Temesta sublingual... only the half... but yesses... I saw myselve walking beside... isn't that and how can others support such a medication...... but for me it was only a test.. how those things work... but incroyable... really I can't be such a measurement parameter .........

sorry if I hogtied the thread right now...but it came out naturally coz of the test of Symbi to pass... I still suffer with her... really I do....


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Symbi
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Hi Chandon and Amazone!

Thanks for the messages.  On another thread I posted the whole story as a therapy .  Sorry I didn't think to update this one.  It all went well, was a little stressful as it was also the first week of school for my one and only little girl, ever.  We got through it.  I was asleep and didn't feel a thing.  They fixed up the hemorroids and diagnosed me with IBS and didn't find anything wrong down the throat (still waiting for biopsy results now though).  I'd gotten over reflux many months before on the BTD but by the time I got through the waiting list - gone! Diet is so powerful!

IBS can be improved through diet and IMHO is like a waste basket diagnosis (when they can't think of what is wrong with you!).  Mine is worse at the time of the month.  So could be gynaecological or hormonal and probably food intolerances too.  Will try the diet fully and see if that helps.

Chandon - that's great that you didn't have to go through a procedure and healed yourself and you're on the right diet now.  Glad that SWAMI is working for you.  Those pesky avoids that we don't want to let go of, I'm giving up wheat at the moment now the tests have been done.  The fact that I don't want to give it up tells me that it's addictive!  
I'm waiting for a secretor blood and saliva test kit to arrive in the mail.  Very excited!  Then after that Genotype kit and SWAMI for me.  

Isa - these big procedures and tests and being in a hospital where things can go wrong is probably not good for anyone.  Like I've seen you say before, anything we can do to avoid the white coated is good!  Made it through this time and with all of your support and Dr D's blueprint, I'll be doing my best not to go back to a hospital for a long time!  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Victoria
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Quoted from Possum

Those Magic Bullet type blenders that you can get in Woolworths & Discount stores are real cheap but go well... I've had one for over a year & made great "smooth" smoothies  & even ground nuts in mine...


Have you tried making almond butter in them yet?  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Quoted from Symbi
IBS can be improved through diet and IMHO is like a waste basket diagnosis (when they can't think of what is wrong with you!).
Sometimes I've wondered if depression is like that too.
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Symbi
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Resurrecting this thread again...

Now I'm a confirmed nonnie (glad to be sure and it explains alot!), I've been reading up on nonniehood.  I see new information in the Scientific basis about serum IAP under "Metabolic and Immunologic Consequences of ABH Secretor Status"

Quoted Text
Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase Activity

The activity of intestinal alkaline phosphatase and serum alkaline phosphatase is strongly correlated with ABH secretor phenotypes.  Independent of ABO blood group, ABH non-secretors have lower alkaline phosphatase activity than ABH secretors. It has been estimated that the serum alkaline phosphatase activity of non-secretors is only about 20% of the activity in the secretor groups. (7-10)  


It's talking about serum IAP.  So I wonder if for people, especially Type As, like Kumar, who are having trouble accessing lewis and secretor tests, whether serum IAP can help guess their secretor status.  Being an A and a nonnie gives me the lowest IAP and that fits with my blood results.  (I'll pass on the fat, thanks)  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

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Symbi  -  Sunday, March 28, 2010, 9:27am
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Symbi
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Quoted from Symbi

Since IAP levels are lower in nonnies (http://drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Intestinal_Alkaline_Phosphatase_%28IAP%29), is this one of the reasons why nonnies are more prone to leaky gut?  .....

Well I never like to fast (reactive hypoglacemia) and wonder if nonnies should never fast.  If fasting inactivates your IAP and lowers your stomach mucosal defences, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  


Also found this info on how nonnies can't turn off their stomach digestion.  Might explain why fasting is difficult.

Quoted Text

Duodenal ulcer

Duodenal ulcer patients are more likely to be non-secretors, and being a non-secretor acts to multiply the activity of a separate gene for the excessive production of the enzyme pepsin. Thus non-secretors have a harder time turning off many of their digestive enzymes and because of this have a higher risk of duodenal ulcer. http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Haplogroup_M_%28mtDNA%29/Welcome/Secretor_Status


That explains why sometimes with an empty stomach it sometimes rumbles and gurgles enough to disrupt a court room (that happened at school excursion once!)  



INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Possum
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Quoted from Victoria
Have you tried making almond butter in them yet?  
Sorry missed this question - yeah nut butters can be made very successfully... I like the added step of beating the ingredients together that was in another thread...

3. Transfer the whole thing to a mixing bowl and whir at top speed with electric mixer (I use a Kitchen Aid mixer Paddle)  I recommend the Kitchen Aid with the paddle attachment if you have one, but if you do not I THINK a hand mixer would work, too.  

4.  Blend it top speed until it becomes creamy.  There is technically no reason that you would NEED to add oil to the mixture, as nuts have enough of their own natural oils in them.... they just need to be pulled out (that's why the mixer in the second step is needed).

P.S. how can I avoid hijacking this thread, when I was asked a question?
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Symbi
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Sounds great Possum.
Now I'm craving nuts - yum!

Or is that now I'm raving nuts?  Or the nuts are raving?

P.S. doesn't bother me, where else are people going to chat?


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Possum
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Thanks Symbi for the new information. I have always been suspecting that serum alk phosphatase and intestinal could be correlated. Your literature discovery can indeed give one more clue (possibly most reliable) in having temporary nonnie diagnosis in places where the actual test is not possible due to logistical problems.



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Quoted from Symbi
So I wonder if for people, especially Type As, like Kumar, who are having trouble accessing lewis and secretor tests, whether serum IAP can help guess their secretor status.  Being an A and a nonnie gives me the lowest IAP and that fits with my blood results.


How can I test for IAP from blood results? What test should I ask for? Is it just called IAP from blood?



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Symbi
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Hi Vista,

Good question, I probably should have put that on here already!

Here in Australia it's done as part of the liver function tests in the E/LFT test (electrolytes and liver function tests)

http://www.labtestsonline.org.au/understanding/analytes/electrolytes/glance.html

http://www.labtestsonline.org.au/understanding/analytes/liver_panel/glance.html

I would guess in Sweden you would have advanced pathology labs there where you could get the lewis test done?  Better to have definites than have to guess and worry that the guess may be wrong!  Also good to test the MN system, and optional subtype of A (A1 or A2 - I still don't know that one) too.


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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