Does anyone have a list of the typical Nonnie conditions from the LR4YT book?

I loaned my LR4YT book out to someone, and can't recall who!

search the Nonnie Clubhouse on the main forum index.....
that might get you started, until your book reappears....

good grief. never mind.

Quoted from Gale D.

good grief. never mind.

There's a lot you can learn in the Nonnie Clubhouse.  

Debra

Sorry I'm a little off in mood today.

I'm looking for a definitive, clinical if you will, list of known Nonnie reactions, symptoms and characteristics, not anecdotal stories.

I know a lot of it is in the LR4YT book - but I've loaned mine out to who knows who.

We nonnies are FULL of anecdotal stories.

Quoted from Ribbit

We nonnies are FULL of anecdotal stories.

lol it's true... definitely sounds like the nonnies (and/or suspected nonnies) I've run across    There ya go, that's your 1st "condition"

DGale19, Is this what you're looking for? ... http://www.dadamo.com/program_advanced_secretor.htm

Dgale, you will also find some of the info in page 40 of the ER4YT book, if you still have it available.

It is good to know that all those vulnerabilities nonnies seem to have, can be addressed with the right diet and lifestyle.  

Hi here are some tips from LR4YT (my own language). Hope it will help you:

1. higher degree of foreign bacteria invasion in the system
2. more adherence of lectins in food to digestive tissues
3. higher incidence of syndrome X or insulin resistance
4. higher concentration of bad intestinal bacteria
5. higher rate of blood clotting
6. higher suscesptibility to candida type infections
7. lower immune resistance
8. higher suscesptibility to dental cavities
9. higher suscesptibility to ulcer-causing bacteria
10. more risk of inflamatory bowel problem
11. higher risk of respiratory virus infections
12. higher incidence of autoimmune diseases
13. alcoholic tendency among drinkers

ahhh
found it!
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-nonnie/m-1169238803/

Quoted from Kumar

Hi here are some tips from LR4YT (my own language). Hope it will help you:

1. higher degree of foreign bacteria invasion in the system
2. more adherence of lectins in food to digestive tissues
3. higher incidence of syndrome X or insulin resistance
4. higher concentration of bad intestinal bacteria
5. higher rate of blood clotting
6. higher suscesptibility to candida type infections
7. lower immune resistance
8. higher suscesptibility to dental cavities
9. higher suscesptibility to ulcer-causing bacteria
10. more risk of inflamatory bowel problem
11. higher risk of respiratory virus infections
12. higher incidence of autoimmune diseases
13. alcoholic tendency among drinkers

Kumar - great list, I bet you'd like to be tested to see if you one if you could.  Why can't you send saliva out of your country in safe packaging?

In spite of all the above I wouldn't mind finding I'm a nonnie as it would explain alot of things! says Mrs metal mouth 1974 (4 amalgum fillings and 8 other)

Nonnies have a greater senses of smell I think and higher sensitivity to everything.

I think it would have to be refrigerated if it wasn't tested within a certain time frame, and that may not be possible.

Testing secretor status for us (in Nepal and neighboring countries) is a big deal because of the logistics involved. I hope at least some labs in India could start this to make it accessible for all of us. Or I could do that when I am abroad to a place with this facility. For the time being, I have decided to compromise and rely on my sensing ability. (We do not even have indican testing, which I would have loved to have. Not even in India, with all of its medical facilities and development.)

thank you, Kumar for your fine reminder,worth to stick it for all of us...   it was in my head but I didn't remember the whole list... ....and aaarrrggghhh   it is sooo true what we can read there... .....

I have the LR book in front of me! According to the index, there are the following nonnie things (in addition to Kumar's list above):

* a significantly higher # of Graves' disease, a common form of hyperthyroidism

* no secretions in saliva means "a distinct disadvantage" as regards teeth -- cavities, particularly

* insulin resistance syndrome, which can cause impairment of triglyceride conversion, resulting in a lowered metabolic rate. Low metabolism also promotes the storage of excess fluid as extracellular water, leading to edema

*far more likely to suffer from an immune disease, esp. when provoked by an infectious organism. Also they're a bit more predisposed to view their own tissue as unfriendly. Nonnies are more prone to...
-generalized inflammation
-both type 1 & type 2 diabetes
- (if type 1 diabetics) more consistent problems with Candida albicans yeast, esp. in mouth & upper GI tract
-fibromyalgia (accounting for 80% of sufferers, regardless of blood type)
-a variety of auto-immune diseases, including ankylosing spondylitis, reactive arthritis, psoriatic arthropathy, Sjogren's syndrome, multiple sclerosis, and Graves' disease
-recurrent urinary tract infections -- between 55-60% of nonnies have been found to develop renal (kidney) scarring even with the regular use of antibiotics for UTIs
- although only 20% of the population, they're 80% of "complex" patients -- hard to diagnose properly and slow to cure

dito thank you Katsy ......

Thank you to whoever 'stickied' this.    

Debra

Thank you Kumar and Katsy for the lists!

Quoted Text

Testing secretor status for us (in Nepal and neighboring countries) is a big deal because of the logistics involved.

not necessarily.....they do not test for secretor status, per se, but you can have a lewis test done by blood,  request a Lewis antigen phenotype from the blood center, the results given to you will let you know your status, don t expect them to read those results in terms of knowing you want to know secretor status.
or the saliva test, The secretor test via saliva is based on hemagglutination inhibition
we can help you determine your secretor status
Le(a-b+) always secretors
Le(a+b-) always a non-secretor
Le(a-b-) can be secretors or non-secretors, this phenotype is
         only about 5%-6% of caucasians

those tests are certainly done in the blood banks or labs of large hospitals, even done down here in Mexico, and we re not more developed than in your country.

ask around, you ll find the hospital that can do it for you.
good luck!

Yea Lola, I did approach blood bank in my  country once. They were all lost as to Lewis factor. One guy told me that there was once the test but now no more. Then I enquired among India-connnected labs too but have not been able so far. But I will continue to search for it. Thanks for the remarks.

Do Nonnies have any adavantages over Secretors at all?

Quoted from treminator99

Do Nonnies have any adavantages over Secretors at all?

Dr. D. just answered this on another thread -- less likely to get cancer and come down with viruses.

Hi Kumar,

I've just ordered a secretor test (Lewis test) through the british website
http://www.bloodgrouptest.co.uk

It wasn't expensive at £27.00. I'll bet they'd deliver to India?

Maybe two of the nonnie weaknesses can cancel out: yeasts have a natural defense that kills bacteria (think antibiotics).  Yeasts produce alcohol as a waste product, which is not harmful to teeth like lactic acid, which is the waste product of most bacteria.  If you have oral candidiasis, I think you should have less bacteria, so maybe that imparts some protection for your teeth.  Personally, I've never had a cavity, but I do have that whitish gunk on my tongue.  

Wow, lucky guy to have never had a cavity!!  You can always brush your tongue to clean the "fuzz" off, but we can't brush away all those cavities!  

Quoted from Kumar

Hi here are some tips from LR4YT (my own language). Hope it will help you:

1. higher degree of foreign bacteria invasion in the system
2. more adherence of lectins in food to digestive tissues
3. higher incidence of syndrome X or insulin resistance
4. higher concentration of bad intestinal bacteria
5. higher rate of blood clotting
6. higher suscesptibility to candida type infections
7. lower immune resistance
8. higher suscesptibility to dental cavities
9. higher suscesptibility to ulcer-causing bacteria
10. more risk of inflamatory bowel problem
11. higher risk of respiratory virus infections
12. higher incidence of autoimmune diseases
13. alcoholic tendency among drinkers

What is it about nonnies that make them more susceptible to alcoholism? Is it that our gut lining just lets the alcohol go right to our heads and that allows alcohol to have a "nicer" effect on us? I've been curious about this for awhile.  

our lack of antigens might also bring about a lack of antigen memory

alcohol gets us everytime, and some just like it more!

Quoted from Lola

our lack of antigens might also bring about a lack of antigen memory

alcohol gets us everytime, and some just like it more!

Interesting...maybe we forget how bad a hangover feels.

all those *beautiful* lists leads to or "not to get to know our secretor status* or justamente the contrary.... go..go..gooo for it and become aware how you can help yourself at your very best.... without any "white coated.... .....

Quoted from Sharon

Interesting...maybe we forget how bad a hangover feels.

Not likely.  I seem to remember the idiotic behavior that lead to me being drunk as a student.  The memory certainly keeps me from drinking much now.  Except the (Swami, Geno Harmonic) beneficial combination of red wine and plum.

When I was looking through the medical abstracts I found one that suggested to dentists that the level of dental caries could be used to predict whether the patient was a secretor.  The correlation must be high in order to get that flow of information.  There is little point in a predictor of Nonnieness that is not accurate in even 5% of the population since about 15% are nonnies.  That would lead to an error rate of potentially one quarter of nonnies being mislabelled secretors.  It would be less than pragmatic to use that.

I think the dental correlation is a good strong indicator, if that is what you are looking for.  

Good question Sharon.

There is a gene linked with alcoholism.  http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040526/researchers-identify-alcoholism-gene

I've seen news articles about studies saying that alcoholism is associated with non-secretorhood especially in blood type A.  Here are some studies I could find http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/4/5681/457 There are lots more about that but some you need to purchase.

This study showed some other factors other than nonniehood associated with alcholism: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6346123

Dr D has researched and put it all together so well: http://drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Alcoholism_and_Secretor_Status

Not only are the genes related, alcohol has protective effects on non-secretors:

Quoted Text

Alcoholism has been associated with the Non-secretor blood type. On the positive side, alcohol consumption appears to exert a protective effect on lung function and to lower the risk of heart disease more in Non-secretors than in Secretors. The key principle with the use of alcohol is for Non-secretors (and everybody actually) is moderation. http://www.dadamo.com/program_advanced_secretor.htm

Hey if you see the list of health problems that nonnies are prone too, no wonder we like to have a drink.  

Quoted from Lola

our lack of antigens might also bring about a lack of antigen memory

alcohol gets us everytime, and some just like it more!

lol
That's really interesting about antigen memory.  Is there any more info about that somewhere?

I can vouch for having non-secretor status affect alocoholism--my family has both. It's very hard, as a recovering alcoholic, to be told that "moderation is the key", since true alcoholics know that this is not possible. For a true alcoholic, abstinence is the ONLY way. And as time also teaches us, I have only seen people gain true sobriety through a surrender of their will as opposed to the brute force of willpower.
That being said, it frustrates me to see the advice be given to use alcohol in moderation for its beneficial affect in the same paragraph that explains the possibility of being alcoholic.
There is realy no "becoming" alcholic--but a "being"-you always carry the gene, it's a matter of time (unless you are never introduced to it).
All joking aside, alcoholics don't drink because they like to drink. It's more of a compulsion. Do you breathe because you like to? I think it is almost that automatic.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but sometimes it hurts to have people joke about alcoholism, since it is by far the thing that has been most difficult in my life and that of my family.
I mean, it is after all a disease--you don't hear people cracking jokes about cancer.  

Sorry, no offence meant by my jokes Cleo.  There is alcoholism in my family too and I have lived with a few and you're right it really is not a joke but a serious illness.  

Strength and kudos to you on your journey.  Congratulations on taking the high road which often is the hardest.

Thanks. It wasn't directed at you. It was more of a commentary on the way it's viewed in society. It's  often you have low morals because you're an alocholic or boy I need a drink. I think the way Dr. D'Adamo approaches it...I don't know. I know this isn't the main topic of this site, but it seems odd to say some subgroup of people may be alcoholic/have alcoholic tendencies and then follow that with "so moderation is best". Any health professional should know that that is a recipe for disaster--not advice to be heeded.

I am excited that maybe there will be a way to "fix" this gene/gene sequence in the future. I have a fear of passing it onto my children.

On that note--Symbi, your daughter is precious. SO cute!

Be well!

Quoted from cleo1978

...you don't hear people cracking jokes about cancer.  

Actually..... yeah, nevermind

Quoted Text

antigen memory.  Is there any more info about that somewhere?

come over someday!!
kidding! I simply made that up.......can t remember!!!

Re: alcoholism, my generation (my siblings and I) are the first in two generations to drink.  On both sides of the family there are/were alcoholics, but in my direct line, my grandparents on both side and my parents were totally against alcohol.  I wonder if that tendency toward alcoholism was genetically "turned off" by total abstinence for two generations and now we're able to enjoy it in moderation.

Quoted from TJ

Maybe two of the nonnie weaknesses can cancel out: yeasts have a natural defense that kills bacteria (think antibiotics).  Yeasts produce alcohol as a waste product, which is not harmful to teeth like lactic acid, which is the waste product of most bacteria.  If you have oral candidiasis, I think you should have less bacteria, so maybe that imparts some protection for your teeth.  Personally, I've never had a cavity, but I do have that whitish gunk on my tongue.  

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Yeast produces alcohol as a waste product?  Is that why I always feel slightly tipsy and dizzy?  Yeast?  You've given me something to think about.  And lactic acid....maybe that's part of the reason for the muscle aches for all those years.  Time to do another saliva test, Ribbit.

I hadn't ever read that yeast can produce alcohol...  I had read that the yeast waste is very hard to digest and will cause gas, etc...

I have heard of instances where fermenting starches - sugars, grains, root veggies - caused alcohol buildup in the gut, later absorbed into the bloodstream which mimics drunkenness...

tipsy and dizzy - I get that quite often when I'm detoxing heavily...  I thought it was some effect in the inner ear caused by the nerve/toxin interaction.  My ears ring almost constantly, but the intensity and tone change.  I think the dizziness is another effect of that...

My ears ring occasionally, but it's always the same tone and intensity.  It comes and goes, but comes in clusters.  I really don't eat much sugar or grain.  I guess I eat brown rice just about every day, but I don't eat grains at every meal.  I will keep this in mind.

It's such a part of me I don't usually think to mention it as a problem, but it is.

Ribbit, ABJoe, do you know nothing about how fermented drinks are made?

In my first year in university I lived in, what could only be called, the home brewing side of the floor.  Bitter, stout (my speciality), larger, fruit wines and mead all were produced or available.  Computer, electronic, and mechanical engineers are resourceful and practical producers.

Cleo1978, you do not need to apologize to anyone for your reactions, or yourself!  You are certainly reasonable to hope about what may be done with research in the future.  There is an attempt planned to catalogue the human epigenome.  Although the money would be more usefully and practically spent by the IfHI, that is not a politically viable alternative for the industrial-governmental complex.

P.S. Has anyone else noticed the juxtaposition of the words "Nonnie" and "typical" with out a "not" or a "never" in the title of this thread?

Quoted from paul clucas

Ribbit, ABJoe, do you know nothing about how fermented drinks are made?

I know it has to "off-gas" (so to speak) so it doesn't break the jars....

Quoted from cleo1978

"It was more of a commentary on the way it's viewed in society.I think the way Dr. D'Adamo approaches it...I don't know. [It]...seems odd to say some subgroup of people may be alcoholic/have alcoholic tendencies and then follow that with "so moderation is best". Any health professional should know that that is a recipe for disaster--not advice to be heeded.

I think Dr D states it that way because there are degrees of tolerance... Sure I realise that true recovering alcoholics cannot touch a drink, at all, but those of us that have alcoholism in the family but who, through circumstances, (maybe it can skip a generation or two ) have never become one, can afford it "in moderation"??!! besides he cannot "tell" people what to do - more strongly suggest it...
Re the generational thing - my Great Grandfather was a (drink the entire pay packet on the way home type) alco, and my daughter, if she gets onto white wine cannot go without drinking till she is verbally abusive...every day...so sensibly now sticks to red wine (in moderation, as it puts her to sleep) But the two generations in between are not affected (as far as I know)??!!
However my B (ex?) DiL (could be a nonnie) has been an alcoholic since her late 20's...

Red wine affects her differently from white wine?  Now isn't that odd?

It does me too!! In the recommendations for different O types it specifies red or white for some & both for explorers I think...

For me hangovers from red and white wine (with no mixing) are substantially different (or were about 20 years ago).

There are major differences in red and white wines.  Red wine gives me migraines (I get those) but not white.  They don't really know why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wine_headache.  

I feel so much better since not drinking at all lately.  Rather keep my liver in tip top shape and feel the increased energy.

Red grape juice every now and then is good enough for me to get some of those good antioxidants..

(maybe it can skip a generation or two )
Interesting. I would have to see some evidence to support that, but interesting theory. I wonder: if in the theory that if a couple of generations stop drinking, and so the next can enjoy drinks in moderation--I wonder if that "reactivates" the alco gene, thus efffectively causing your child to become alcoholic. In that context, it almost seems it wouldn't be worth it to "enjoy in moderation".

I come from a family of 8, not all of us have inherited the alco gene. It's probably 3 out of 8, roughly 40%. So, I don't know that it's a matter of skipping a generation as a rule, or just the randomness that accounts for some getting it, some not.

When I used to drink red wine, it made me somewhat ill. Could be the tannins? And like any good alcoholic, I tried to switch what I drank, when I drank, and finally with whom I drank. I also think you either have it-alcoholis- or you don't. I think the degree to which it affects you is dependent on environmental factors, your personality, horoscope, sex...basically anything that makes you unique. But in terms of having the gene expressed, I think it's more of a black/white you do/you don't thing. Some function their whole lives as "highly-functioning alcoholics", and can be quite successful (depending on how you measure success). I've seen others, like myself, who are more emotional, and maybe more true to themselves who have had to surrender.

Possum: In terms of Dr D. "! besides he cannot "tell" people what to do - more strongly suggest it...". I reread my post, and I never said he tells us what to do, although if you want to have a semantic showdown, he does "instruct" us on what is best for us, which I would categorize at "telling"; and not "what to do" as you say, but "what is best"--as I said in my post. I am thoroughly grateful for what he has done--he is an amazing mind and compassionate soul. But, I take issue with the idea that "moderation" is key-as a universal. And, as I stated before, we who are truly alcoholic do not see degrees, i.e. "she's a little alcoholic, just a touch alcoholic, etc".

I wish your daughter the best. I have found that the only "sensible" thing to do if you are the type of person who becomes verbally abusive whilst drinking is not to switch to a different beverage (poison, if you will), but to stop drinking and gain some recovery with support. I really wish her a better road than I had! Nice she has you for support!

No offense meant.. it was obviously in the interpretation...& thanks for your encouragement re my daughter - she is doing well with the support of her fiance...
Our DiL is doing slightly better than before, but only because she now has to pay for her own alcohol, as no one is giving her a free ride any longer...

Quoted from cleo1978

  as I stated before, we who are truly alcoholic do not see degrees, i.e. "she's a little alcoholic, just a touch alcoholic, etc".

Kind of like being pregnant.  You're either pregnant or you're not.     Well....You might be able to drink in moderation, but you can't be pregnant in moderation.....can you?

Thanks Clareybabey,

I will try the lab from Nepal and see if it works.