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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Live Right 4 Your Type  ›  Thyroid & Iron & Hair Loss. . . Oh My!!
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Thyroid & Iron & Hair Loss. . . Oh My!!  This thread currently has 4,047 views. Print Print Thread
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Rose3408
Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Don't know where to put this?

As many of you already know, 7 yrs ago at the onset of menopause, I also started experiencing massive hair loss.  To date, I have lost over 50% of my hair.

Test for thyroid, iron, etc. always turned out normal, although I believed it must be my thyroid because I am always cold and lost the outer part of my eyebrows (symptom of thryoid)  Dr's today rely too much on those blood tests numbers and need to treat the symptoms!

Anywho. . . my new blood work shows low ferritin of only 26, and my TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is 4.31 which abnormal and just borderline above the normal range.

NOW WHAT?  The endricronlogist said, they're very borderline, not to worry, as all my hair was falling out on her desk!

Of course I don't want to start any thyroid meds (too dangerous) and want to treat this the A'damo way.  So I need your help here.  Anyone here with thyroid problems, and suggestions?  

I'm eating eating right for my blood type, etc. but hair is just falling out in droves.

REALLY NEED YOUR HELP AND INPUT!  Before my scalp looks like those smiley faces!!!

Rose
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Ribbit
Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
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Rose, taking a thyroid supplement from the health food store won't hurt you and it just may help.  You can take kelp, use iodine topically, get L-Tyrosine, or even get a glandular supplement.  I used to use the glandular supplement and it helped a lot.  During this last pregnancy I mentioned to my midwife that I was losing hair (you're supposed to keep it all during pregnancy) and she said I needed to take my thyroid supplement again.  I was able to discontinue it for the first time when I started the BTD.  It's enough for me (except during pregnancy, evidently).  There are also homeopathic remedies you can take.

I don't know that Dr. D would recommend glandular-based anything for an A.  They're usually bovine or sheep.  But they have helped me when I needed it.

Somebody (probably omnicient, omipresent Lola) will be along with more suggestions.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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pixelland
Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- ISFP Nomad - raw foodist - optimist!
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Hi Rose...

So sorry you are still having hair loss. Have you considered alopecia areata? ..."hair loss of unknown cause, characterized by round patches of complete baldness"?

I'm guessing you are just "thinning", not to the point of bald spots?

just a thought....


"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
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jeanb
Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ask your endcrinologist for Armour and ask to take it for 3 months.  Let her know you will check in 1 x per month for temperature testing, pulse rate etc.  You can also chart it yourself for your doctor.  My doctor asked me to chart myself to see if there was any improvement.

This is how my doctor allowed me to go on Thyroid supplementation even though my blood testing showed nothing, but my body showed every sign of not having enough thyroid.  

You can also take iodine + tyrosine = thyroid hormone.  This didn't work for me.  I still take tyrosine and it helps with my energy levels.

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Mayflowers
Monday, August 25, 2008, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ribbit

I don't know that Dr. D would recommend glandular-based anything for an A.  They're usually bovine or sheep.  But they have helped me when I needed it.


I have a thyroid, glandular supplement that I'm going to show  to Dr. D when I go to my next appointment..it's bovine..I'll report back..

BTW, Rose, I take Fergon, plant derived iron. Very mild to the intestines doesn't cause C.

Also Rose, get your secretor status checked it would help with the diet choices to fine tune it...
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Ribbit
Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from 815


I have a thyroid, glandular supplement that I'm going to show  to Dr. D when I go to my next appointment..it's bovine..I'll report back..

...


Thanks, I'd love to hear what he has to say.  I'll follow his advice to you.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Jane
Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Jeanb
How much tyrosine do you take and at what time of day do you take it?
Jane
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jeanb
Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I take 1000 mg every morning before 7.  When I was really bad I used to take it 2-3 times per day, 1000 mg, early morning around 6, mid morning around 11 and early afternoon around 2.  Do not take it any later than 2 or it might interfere with sleep.  Do not take if you get headaches from it and do not take if you have high blood pressure (not usual for low thyroid).

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Graedyn
Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rose, here's something else to check on. In 2006 I had lost about 30% of my hair and naturally high-tailed it to my osteopath to have my thyroid levels checked. I had been on 175 mcg so we tried lowering it to 150mcg and the hair loss stopped. Think that solved the problem? Nopers. In 2007 it happened again. This time I ended up losing 85% of my hair!! My osteo referred me to a dermatologist. Turns out I have recurring Alopecia Areata, which is also thought to be auto-immune.  I ended up having cortisone shots in my scalp and was prescribed cyclsporine to turn off the immune system response. It took 6 months but my hair is finally back. Scary thing is, he can't tell me if this took care of it or if it'll return.  Every time I see a couple of hairs on my bathroom counter, I start to panic. Wiki has some good information on it.  Not saying this is the problem or trying to be an alarmist, just wanted to give you a heads-up. Best of luck to you. I know first hand that that much hair loss is devastating!!
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NewHampshireGirl
Monday, August 25, 2008, 11:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dear Rose,
Please follow Jeanb's example.  I cannot see that it will cost you a thing!!!!  Sometimes you have to take the lead with these doctors.  They rely too much on tests.  You don't have to be brutal with the "experts', just firm.
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Lola
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 12:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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here s an old discussion on Glandular sups
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert4/config.pl?read=1086


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Dr. Natalie Colicci
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 12:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1740
Anywho. . . my new blood work shows low ferritin of only 26, and my TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is 4.31 which abnormal and just borderline above the normal range.

NOW WHAT?  The endricronlogist said, they're very borderline, not to worry, as all my hair was falling out on her desk!
Rose


Perhaps a second opinion is warranted.  Some studies show a ferritin around 90 (depending on lab ranges which differ) is needed for hair growth.....
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Ribbit
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 1:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My blood tests only show T3 Uptake as being low.  But I had an indocrinologist tell me those "low" levels were actually normal in somebody my age and he wouldn't give me any suggestions.  He said thyroid wasn't my trouble.  Now I realize it was more adrenals than thyroid, although I do feel better when I take a thyroid supplement.  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Graedyn
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 1:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rose, I tried to send you a message but got some kind of weird error. Cyclosporine is an immunosuppressant usually prescribed for some organ transplant recipients.  My immune system was attacking my hair follicles and plugging them with white blood cells, and as a result my hair couldn't re-grow.  The cyclosporine shut off the attack so my body could clear away the white blood cells.  It's pretty heavy-duty stuff and came with some nasty side-effects, at least for me. I'm hoping ER4YT will prevent this from ever happening again.
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Paula 0+
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 6:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Rose, Lots of good advice above.  I just want to say that 4.31 is high for tsh....so the thyroid is part of your problem.  Iron is also important.  Someone else said the adrenals are usually involved in this case also.  It's all connected, and you are on the right path.  I take 88mcg of synthroid a day.  I also
lose hair, not as much, but I lose it.  I just started taking dessicated liver for iron and b12, and it feels good.  You are definitely should look into whether tyrosine is ok for A's, and kelp.  Maybe "Deflect" for type A would be helpful.....I am excited that you are finally on to what is happening!
I just looked at type A supplements at the store above.  It looks like polyvite A and polyflora and deflect might all be quite helpful, but especially the polyvite.  
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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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italybound
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 6:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 312
I also lose hair, not as much, but I lose it.


as I understand it, some hair loss is normal, but 50% surely is not, as you certainly know.
I would def look for a dr that listens to what I'm telling them about my symptoms, versus one who only looks at blood work. especially when your hair is falling all over their desk   and they're ignoring you.  



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Paula 0+
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 6:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Here's some info about ferritin and thyroid relationship.....
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/
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NewHampshireGirl
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rose, according to your test results it does look as though you have two major problem areas:  low iron and low thyroid.  If you address these two areas I should think you will begin to feel better in three months' time.  You might have to push to be referred to an endocrinologist if you aren't getting satisfaction from your doctor.
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Rose3408
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks for all your wonderful input!

To HampshireGirl:
Believe it or not, the Doctor's who told me 4.31 TSH is very borderline abnormal and 26 Ferritin was an endricronogist and my family doctor.  What a bunch of idiots!!  And last week my gynocologist said the same thing.  I just wanted to scream!  HELLO, I'M LOSING TONS OF HAIR!!!

I just don't know where else to turn.  I really wish I had the money to hop on a plane see Dr. Dr.  Yesterday, someone asked me what I would do if I won the lottery, and I said, (I kid you not)  I don't want to win the lottery, I just want to see Dr. D'Adamo!!!  That's better than winning a lottery.   What could be more priceless than one's own health!

Tonight I shall pray again that someone can help me.

Everyone here is so fabulous!  {{{Hugs}}} to all.  After losing my mother several years ago, and now my sister who was only in her 40's, I need much support.

God Bless

Rose
PS.  Especially, as a single, divorced lady.  Let's be honest, what guy wants to date a balding woman!

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Chloe
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from 312
Here's some info about ferritin and thyroid relationship.....
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/


This is one of the most interesting websites I've seen in a long while.  Many years ago, my
ferritin levels were 12...and I was past menopause....My all over body aches and borderline
thyroid values clearly show me now that I had an iron issue that all doctors missed completely.
They all missed the borderline thyroid and I heard what Rose heard even though I didn't have
profound hair loss. My hair did get very thin, though.

It makes me wonder how a type A is supposed to raise their ferritin levels naturally??


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Paula 0+
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Chloe, that is a good question.  I guess we could look at the type food lists and see what items help with iron.  I also always think about gluten sensitivity if it sounds like one is not absorbing minerals or some vitamins.....lots more surfing around to do.  But yes, stop the thyroid madness was a site I learned of after I had RAI for a nodule, before I knew about the btd......
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Paula 0+
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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OK, Floradix is #1 on the Blood Building protocol for type A.
Here's a link to the protocol.
http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/8.html

I have used Floradix in the past, herbal liquid, and I bought the yeast/gluten free version.  I think it also has some b12, which also helps.....check out that link.  It could be that addressing iron first will help the thyroid.  Polyvite is on that list and it has a good amount of iodine too.
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Chloe
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,166
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Location: Northeast USA
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Quoted from 312
Chloe, that is a good question.  I guess we could look at the type food lists and see what items help with iron.  I also always think about gluten sensitivity if it sounds like one is not absorbing minerals or some vitamins.....lots more surfing around to do.  But yes, stop the thyroid madness was a site I learned of after I had RAI for a nodule, before I knew about the btd......


As a type O, you can at least eat meat.  I'm gluten intolerant and allergic to eggs. My protein
sources are fish, soy, and some yogurt and whey protein.   I remember
being severely anemic as a child.  The interesting thing about iron is that high amounts can feed tumors.  Given that cancer is the weak link of type A...perhaps the downside
of low iron (which might help protect us indirectly from feeding tumors) leaves us with the predisposition to have low thyroid.  It appears to be a catch 22.  And I still wonder if soy is
a smart food for anyone with borderline thyroid.  I try not to eat anything but cultured soy,
but still, everything I've read says it's not a good food for a low thyroid.

Greens like kale and spinach are supposed to be good to raise iron levels, but ferritin is
iron storage.  Raising that directly is something I know nothing about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7055099?dopt=Abstract

It appears that gluten intolerance is one of the causes of low ferritin....Maybe this is where Rose's
problems stem from....Go gluten free and perhaps ferritin levels will slowly rise again naturally.  I've been gluten free for 19 months.  

And look what I just found....soybean extract to raise iron...

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/83/1/103


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

Revision History (1 edits)
Chloe  -  Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:29am
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Paula 0+
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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OK for tonight I want to add that secretor status is a biggie here.  If Rose is a nonnie, she could possibly be an explorer, they have issues with iron.  Also, dandelion is another good herb/veggie that might be helpful here....best wishes for more hair!
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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Rose, is there anyone else in Kenosha you can turn to?  I can feel your anguish across the miles and I want to cry for you.  I want to do more than that, though.  I really want to go out there and fight your battle with you against those doctors.  Is there anyone else at all you can go to for another opinion?
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jeanb
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I just got back from my yearly check up with my doctor.  After being on thyroid meds for 3 years, my numbers are finally normal and my temperature was normal.  Three months ago after exercising, my doctor checked my temperature and it was low, so he upped the dosage of my meds.  That helped tremendously.

I have been taking large doses of Vitamin A for 50 days and I am not clotting during my periodand my flow is only 5 days.  

My doctor did find my levels of Vitamin D are low even though I try to get out in the sun every day during the summer.  He told me to start taking Vit D during the summer and try tanning during the winter.  He also told me to drink Green Tea at least 3 times per day to counteract the effects of the sun on my skin!!

The other couple of things he found is that my iron is low (lower than last year) so in addition to eating iron rich foods, he wanted me to take an iron supplement.  He said women who have thyroid issues usually have Iron problems from heavy periods.  He also wants me to eat calf/veal liver 2 times per week.  I like it but my family doesn't like it.  

I also have low DHEA and he gave me a prescription for that.

So my life is a lot different from 3 years ago. I am up every morning at 5:30 and I ride my bike 30 minutes with my dog running beside me.  

I go to the gym at least 2 times per week and do whole body exercises with anaerobic rowing or biking intervals.  On off days I do 90X.  My fingernails grow, my hair grows fast, and my skin is smooth.

3 Years ago I was hard pressed to get out of bed in the morning and I would collapse every night when I got home from work.  My energy is good during the day and I very rarely bonk. I had a nasty patch of dry skin around my hairline and I didn't need to get my hair cut more than 2 or 3 times per year.  

Treating any thyroid/hormonely issue takes a long time and takes a very good doctor who allows you to take charge of your
health.  It seems that along with low thyroid a whole host of deficiencies show up as an adjunct to the low thyroid as well, low progesterone, low Vit A, low iron, low DHEA for me.

As a side note, my 81 year old mother was diagnosed with low thyroid and she was given medication in February.  We were really concerned that she had dementia, but after being on thyroid meds for 8 months, she is much brighter and actually engaged in life again.  
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Rose3408
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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First and foremost, I want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for all your support.  You have truly brought me tears.

I'm going to check out Floradix, Acerola (Vitamin C)and I already take Dr. D's mulit-vitamin (Polyvite) and some of the other suggestions.

In regards to "soy" as much as it was indicated it may help in increasing the iron, soy is not good for the thyroid; so I have read.

Maybe for Christmas I can ask my son to buy me a ticket to fly out and see Dr. D!   I wish he still answered some email questions, so I could ask him what he would recommend for thyroid, iron and hair loss for type A.  Or maybe have an hour question and answer special on a radio show.

I wonder if I send him a letter at the clinic, if he would answer my question?  What do you think?

{{{Hugs}}} to all for your help.

Rosebud
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Lola
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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and horsetail as well....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lola
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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I would email Dr C, she might have some suggestions.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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italybound
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 3:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
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Rose, there is some great info here:
http://www.onlyhairloss.com/hairlosscauses.htm



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Chloe
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 9:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Mayflowers
Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Chloe, you can have veal, and turkey.. I think I have an iron absorption problem..I'm getting my ferritin checked next time. I've been anemic quite a few times in my life..
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Chloe
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 2:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from 815
Chloe, you can have veal, and turkey.. I think I have an iron absorption problem..I'm getting my ferritin checked next time. I've been anemic quite a few times in my life..


No, veal is baby COW....No red meat allowed for  Warriors. It's possible you've been given a more
customized diet., MF..but I'm following the book and it only allows turkey.



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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purlgirl
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Paulam - that was a great link (ferritin & thyroid ) That is exactly what happened to me.

Rose - how is the water where you live? Floride is toxic to the thyroid - in fact they used to give it to hyper-thyroid people. Nasty stuff. Check your tooth paste.

Also check the list of foods that suppress Thyroid function befor you start eating huge amounts of anything. It might be that food doesn't bother you but you will want to be sure.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/goitrogens/
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italybound
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 1:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
also Rose, the new IH         I saw yesterday, said your thyroid needs iodine, magnesium and calcium to function properly. How are you on getting those things? but then again, as I mentioned to you on another thread, if your body isn't digesting your foods and your body isn't able to use the nutrients from them, all is in vain anyway. Example......all of my hair analysis' have shown my calcium extremely high. At first glance, once might think that's good, but it's not. It means my body is storing it instead of utilizing it. I will ask my IH guy if he knows of any in your area. They 'attack' problems from a whole dif angle. {{{HUGS}}}



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Jane
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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IB,
You need to have it checked out if your calcium is too high - it means that your body is leaching it out of your bones which is most often a sign of a parathyroid adenoma.  I had that and had to have surgery on it back in 1996. PM me if you want more info.
About the TSH at 4 or more.  The new guidelines (a few years old) are that it's considered too high if it's above 3...it used to be 5 and a lot of docs still don't buy into that.  Most people feel best if it's between 1 and 2.  So if I were you, I'd raise that question with my endo and ask for additional supplementation.  Also, sometimes you need a little more in the winter.
Jane
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Andrea AWsec
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 5:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 312
OK for tonight I want to add that secretor status is a biggie here.  If Rose is a nonnie, she could possibly be an explorer, they have issues with iron.  Also, dandelion is another good herb/veggie that might be helpful here....best wishes for more hair!

Yup.... so when are you going to get the test done?


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Mayflowers
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe


No, veal is baby COW....No red meat allowed for  Warriors. It's possible you've been given a more
customized diet., MF..but I'm following the book and it only allows turkey.


I thought veal is a neutral..why don't you PM Dr. C?
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Chloe
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


I thought veal is a neutral..why don't you PM Dr. C?



Let's ask Lola....she knows everything!

Lola...is veal neutral for a Warrior or a toxin?



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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italybound
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
is veal neutral for a Warrior or a toxin?


Since veal is cow, and beef, bone soups, broth, beef heart, beef liver, buffalo, bison are all avoids for Warriors, then veal would be an avoid as well.  



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Chloe
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from italybound


Since veal is cow, and beef, bone soups, broth, beef heart, beef liver, buffalo, bison are all avoids for Warriors, then veal would be an avoid as well.  


Thank you italybound...it's what I thought!

OK Diana....you gotta give up the veal...you've been eating a toxin!



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lola
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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veal is listed as a toxin for GT3.....
veal was evaluated for GT5 and
not listed in the warrior list.....some consider this fact as being a neutral, but a very infrequent one.

others have had other opinions on the veal issue.

is veal listed in your swami, Diana?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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italybound
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
veal is .. not listed in the warrior list.....some consider this fact as being a neutral, but a very infrequent one.


The Teacher diet is the only one that veal is even listed (and as an avoid). Given that all of the other beef 'versions'   are also listed as avoids, if we flip back to the Warrior diet and all the beef 'versions' are avoids there as well, why would veal then be considered a neutral for Warriors? Is it purely a personal choice to view it as such?



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Lola
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Veal is treated separately from beef. While you are better off avoiding red meat, veal is a neutral and the plan allows you to enjoy neutral red meats 0-1 times per week. In other words, you don't need it but once a week is okay if you want it!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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italybound
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
Veal is treated separately from beef. While you are better off avoiding red meat, veal is a neutral and the plan allows you to enjoy neutral red meats 0-1 times per week. In other words, you don't need it but once a week is okay if you want it!


Lola, where did you get that info please.



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Lola
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Since veal is listed as a toxin for GT3, I think you can consider that veal was evaluated for GT5 and since it wasn't listed it would be considered neutral.

Quoted Text
Based on that logic there are other red meats that would be considered neutral for GT5 too.

Red Meat
Bear
Beef
Beef tongue
Bone soup
Calf liver
Caribou
Horse
Kangaroo
Marrow soup
Moose
Opossum
Rabbit
Veal

However, look at the Warrior Red Meat frequency. It is 0-1 time per week.


0-1 means 'very infrequent' in my book!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Lola
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have copied sentences from past discussions which I considered of interest, depending on topic......I consider these interesting points of view on the veal issue for warriors......
they are simply 'interpretations' .....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Mayflowers
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 2:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

Thank you italybound...it's what I thought!
OK Diana....you gotta give up the veal...you've been eating a toxin!


It's on my SWAMI so Dr. D is letting me have it..Not that I like it..I haven't had veal in years. (He must have known that..grrr) We had this discussion about beef because it's not listed in the book. Only beef heart and beef liver right?  It's gotta be a typo(omitted by mistake)in the book. He says on the Genoytype website, that red meat was not good for Warriors... That was so funny when I was listening to him on the Ohio radio interview I expected him to say red meat for A's and he says lima beans..I don't like them either..lol  I can have kangaroo also..yeah, right. I'll remember that the next time I go to Australia. ..They are too cute to eat anyway. HEY, if I move to Alaska, I can have caribou!
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Chloe
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 3:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


It's on my SWAMI so Dr. D is letting me have it..Not that I like it..I haven't had veal in years. (He must have known that..grrr) We had this discussion about beef because it's not listed in the book. Only beef heart and beef liver right?  It's gotta be a typo(omitted by mistake)in the book. He says on the Genoytype website, that red meat was not good for Warriors... That was so funny when I was listening to him on the Ohio radio interview I expected him to say red meat for A's and he says lima beans..I don't like them either..lol  I can have kangaroo also..yeah, right. I'll remember that the next time I go to Australia. ..They are too cute to eat anyway. HEY, if I move to Alaska, I can have caribou!


Well, enjoy your veal...Even if someone force fed it to me, I couldn't chew and swallow.
I'm probably one of the few type A people who hate red meat, hardly ever ate it as a child
and would rather starve to death than chew cooked animal flesh.  I can barely muster up a turkey burger. Yet, I could live on almost any food from the ocean....even seaweed tastes good to me...I wish it was okay for me to eat lobster, crab, calamari and shrimp.  THOSE
are the foods I crave constantly!



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Mayflowers
Thursday, September 11, 2008, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chloe

Well, enjoy your veal...Even if someone force fed it to me, I couldn't chew and swallow.
I'm probably one of the few type A people who hate red meat, hardly ever ate it as a child
and would rather starve to death than chew cooked animal flesh.  


Not a red meat lover either. As I mentioned, I haven't had veal in years..I only liked it the way my mom made it which I think was actually Hungarian because my aunt is Hungarian and a fabulous cook..Pan fried with poatoes and onions and a ton of paprika. Sooo good.  I did however love sea cockroach, and other sea food like oysters and clams. I can have mussels which I like now...  
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Chloe
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Quoted from 815


Not a red meat lover either. As I mentioned, I haven't had veal in years..I only liked it the way my mom made it which I think was actually Hungarian because my aunt is Hungarian and a fabulous cook..Pan fried with poatoes and onions and a ton of paprika. Sooo good.  I did however love sea cockroach, and other sea food like oysters and clams. I can have mussels which I like now...  

  

me too... I've fallen in love with mussels....


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Andrea AWsec
Friday, September 12, 2008, 12:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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As a kid we used to dig mussels from the bay. My mom would make the most wonderful dishes with them. I can still see my dad moving his feet up and down and then going under to dig up the mussels, so yummy.
I haven't eaten them in years.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Ribbit
Friday, September 12, 2008, 1:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I want to eat lobster.  I've only had it once, when I was a teenager and it was at Red Lobster--or as DH calls it, Dead Lobster.  It wasn't very good.  He's from Long Island too, Andrea (Hampton Bays area) and said anything at Dead Lobster is a joke and that I have to have real Maine lobster.  So one day when we go to NY (I've never been), to see his old homeplace, I'll get to eat "real" lobster.  I'll allow myself to eat that one avoid just to know what it tastes like.

Diana, tell me more about what Dr. D said about limas.  Was he saying they're worse than beef for As, or that they're not that bad?

I've had veal once, when I was trying out the Teacher diet.  I thought I was going to be sick.  It tasted good, but I didn't sleep well that night and slightly nauseated.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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