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Avoids... Again!  This thread currently has 2,020 views. Print Print Thread
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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 11:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Of the “avoids” that give you the strongest reaction/s; would you say they were items frequently or abundantly consumed prior to BTD?

I wonder why some people react more violently/stronger to some avoids and I thought that perhaps it is related to how it was consumed pre BTD.

For example, I grew up on a very varied diet. I consumed all avoids but none in large amounts or too frequently. I had wheat since quite young but only once a day, milk was also only once a day and neither in large quantity. Now I do not react violently to it, and mostly, I do not experience any reaction at all. Actually, now that I am abusing them I experience stronger reactions when I  consume them again.

Cigarettes, on the other hand, I did abuse. Two packs a day for 10 years. After quitting for a year I had a very violent reaction when I started again.

Perhaps the length of time of abstinence from an “avoid” also has an effect on the strength of the reaction when reintroduced.

Would anyone like to share their thought on these issues or related ones.


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ISA-MANUELA
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 12:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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yessss I think and observed similarities...means that the amounts will create the situation as well,
it's a big difference between allergic reaction and a food intolerance.....and then when your body went threw several detoxphases..... I see that almost here bodies will react quicker and muchmore suscep
tible than before the detox ....I saw some reactions on different product when they've got reintroduced after 3 months or a year- or even here no more reactions at all....  or just a big bang and clients
got very sick about those stuffs. .......it depends also from a psyche pattern of acceptance or no acceptance at all......
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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ISA-MANUELA

I see that almost here bodies will react quicker and muchmore suscep
tible than before the detox....I saw some reactions on different product when they've got reintroduced after 3 months or a year- or even here no more reactions at all....  


ISA,

Fascinating you have observed stronger reactions after the detox. Why do you think it happens?

The clients that had no reactions, did they consume a lot of the product before the detox?

Thaks for sharing


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Lola
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 4:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I consumed everything I can think of, before BTD, and apparently never had a reaction to anything!

I was never a picky eater, and tried just about anything exotic or gourmet!

so my following BTD so strictly is really just a matter of true conviction.

my taste buds have shifted to beneficials and neutrals, and I never have a craving or nostalgia for anything containing an avoid.

now that I m middle aged, I have tweaked my food choices even more.....avoiding even the infrequent neutrals and ofcourse avoids written in the aging and menopause books........but I never have had a hot flash or any symptom, as joint pains, nothing!

I think I m just very disciplined, without being obsessed.
I just simply say no, to myself and to others offering me anything that looks 'avoidish'.

I go to bed every night, wishing it were already the next day, to accomplish all the things I have planned to do.

BTD has only made my life and choices, easier!
I do not waste time or experiment with any 'doubtful ingredients'.
it gives me the freedom to do other more important things in my life!

Peter is my hero!!   and I admire every step he has taken to give us control of our health and wellbeing


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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lola  -  Thursday, January 25, 2007, 5:05pm
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Alia Vo
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think it may be related to each person's own individual metabolic and digestive makeup.  Some avoids affect individuals more than others.

Putting alot of thought anxiety into eating avoids probably stresses our digestive tract even before the digestive process begins.

Alia



Alia A. Vo
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Drea
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 7:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alia_Vo
Putting alot of thought anxiety into eating avoids probably stresses our digestive tract even before the digestive process begins.


Alia, I think you've hit on something here. I find that this is so true for me. It's important (imho) that if we choose to ingest an avoid, that we really enjoy it. Otherwise, what's the point?


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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Victoria
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I relate to Lola in the sense that I don't eat any avoids, and have even stopped eating infrequent neutrals, so I don't know how avoids would affect me specifically.  I did have a cup of Latte' a few years ago, after not having it for a year (I used to drink 2 or 3 a day) and I had very loose stools within a half hour.  My body wanted that stuff out!

I feel so much benefit from the Beneficials and Frequent Neutrals, I have come to love these foods and enjoy eating so much!  I am not drawn to experiment with the other foods.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you ladies for your replies. You have to allow me but I have to thank Lola especially. A long post! I am honoured ! but truly thankful  . I love to read your story.

The unfortunate thing is that I was not expecting replies from you ladies. You are not really the sample ! You never have avoids.

This thread has been prompted from “problems before BTD?” I can not help but wonder when I read  peoples comments that, “now avoids make me feel worse, I’d rather consume some avoids infrequently to prevent reaction bla, bla, bla.” I am not judging the decision. We are all free to choose.

I would like to get a better understanding of why some react very violently to “avoids” and wonder if prior abuse of an item plays any role. If, because one has not “educated” the immune system properly, ei. has abused “avoids,” suffers more afterwards.

I know that many of us were not aware of reactions pre BTD but I am not into this line as much. I am more on the strength of the reaction.

In any case, thank you ladies once again.

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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from outdoordrea


Alia, I think you've hit on something here. I find that this is so true for me. It's important (imho) that if we choose to ingest an avoid, that we really enjoy it. Otherwise, what's the point?


Lucky you. Obviously your body allows you to enjoy  

You do not react violently/strongly to your prefered avoids. Have you ever abused them?

I would even include easy weight gain from a specific avoid as a strong reaction .




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lola  -  Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:27pm
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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
 I did have a cup of Latte' a few years ago, after not having it for a year (I used to drink 2 or 3 a day) and I had very loose stools within a half hour.  My body wanted that stuff out!


Was it the coffee that gave you the reaction? 2 - 3 a day is not much perhaps that is why they were just loose


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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr. D says on “Aging” book page 13: “When an antigen encounters a harmful foreign intruder, it creates antibodies against it. These antibodies serve as an early warning system. The next time the foreign intruder is encountered it will be attacked and destroyed.”

Am I correct by saying: If one has abused/consumed too much of a harmful intruder the body has created more antibodies and thus the stronger the reaction.

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Victoria
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana

The unfortunate thing is that I was not expecting replies from you ladies. You are not really the sample ! You never have avoids.


  Aw .........

Can't Lola and I play, too?  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Victoria
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana


Was it the coffee that gave you the reaction? 2 - 3 a day is not much perhaps that is why they were just loose




I'm convinced that it was the coffee.  As soon as it hit my stomach, I felt like I'd been poisoned.  And "loose" is a modest way of describing a more intense bathroom visit.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Susana
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria


  Aw .........

Can't Lola and I play, too?  


Always welcomed  

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KimonoKat
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 10:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Popcorn.

I don't think I will ever get over the desire to eat popcorn.  The smell to me is intoxicating, and I still love the taste.

It is very hard for me to go to a movie theatre in the evening or on the weekend these days and sit in a crowded theatre and smell tons of popcorn.  Even if I have a 100% beneficial dinner before hand, and am completely stuffed sitting down to watch a film, the minute I smell that smell, I want some.

It's one of the reasons I like to see a film during the week, the first showing of the day.  Usually it's just me and my friend in the whole theatre.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Victoria
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 11:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you ever read the ingredients in the "butter", it might dull that longing!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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KimonoKat
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
If you ever read the ingredients in the "butter", it might dull that longing!  


Has nothing to do with the "butter."  I know that stuff is cr@p. I know popcorn is bad for me.

It's the smell of popped corn; the smell is an immediate trigger to get me salivating.  Think Pavlov.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Victoria
Thursday, January 25, 2007, 11:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The ultimate Aromatherapy!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
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ABJoe
Friday, January 26, 2007, 4:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My whole menu prior to BTD was avoids or infrequent neutrals.  Since I haven't finished the detox, I can't really answer the question.  I do know that I am feeling better by eating Beneficials and feel worse when I happen onto an avoid...  

I really can NOT eat corn, syrup especially!  The headache is really massive if I get any substantial amount.  It has been quite a while since I've gotten into any, but I had to be without all corn for over three weeks to become headache free when I started BTD.  Now I get a tingle when I just hold something with corn syrup...


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Victoria
Friday, January 26, 2007, 4:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ABJoe,
You and I followed the same lifestyle, prior to BTD, it sounds like!  I was actually raised on 90% avoids.  It's amazing to even think about it, that I have survived long enough to make an informed choice.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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accidental_chef
Friday, January 26, 2007, 5:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Susana, could one's secretor status have something to do with the degree of onslaught of the Return of the Avoids? From the posts here, it looks that way...

My reaction to avoids & infrequent neutrals is the dull ache in my joints. Nothing dramatic but the dull ache is there. And a bit of nose clog and 1/2 a day of having to clear my throat. One would never notice these things...but when you've experienced supreme well being, little things get augmented.


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

[color=blue]Pranic Healer with http://www.pranichealing.sg/

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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 8:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Popcorn.


Hi KK, thanks for sharing.

I guess you had a lot of it pre BTD. Unfortunately (fortunate really) you are among the ones that does not have avoids. Well... before you started 100% on the "Arthritis" book compliance, but already on BTD (when every so often you decided to have popcorn but really shouldn't ,

What happened when you had popcorn?
Did you experience a stronger reaction than when you consumed some avoid that had not been so much consumed before?

Sorry for being so picky  






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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 9:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi ABJoe also thanks for sharing

Well, in your case, it seems that because you consumed heavily in the avoid category you have a very strong reaction to one specific, actually an important one for AB's. When you "happen to have an avoid" they do not seem to bother you much. Can I assume you had them relatively frequently before?

I hope your detox finishes soon and you need not try an avoid to report the reaction here

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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 9:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from accidental_chef
Susana, could one's secretor status have something to do with the degree of onslaught of the Return of the Avoids? From the posts here, it looks that way...


I would say yes also.


Quoted from accidental_chef
My reaction to avoids & infrequent neutrals is the dull ache in my joints. Nothing dramatic but the dull ache is there. And a bit of nose clog and 1/2 a day of having to clear my throat.


Do you experience this with any avoids or some in particular. Are they ones you tended to conume more?

Quoted from accidental_chef
One would never notice these things...but when you've experienced supreme well being, little things get augmented.


You are so right. I have so much trouble explaining this to non BTD individuals.  




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lola  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 9:22am
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shells
Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana
Of the “avoids” that give you the strongest reaction/s; would you say they were items frequently or abundantly consumed prior to BTD?

I wonder why some people react more violently/stronger to some avoids and I thought that perhaps it is related to how it was consumed pre BTD.

.


Perhaps the length of time of abstinence from an “avoid” also has an effect on the strength of the reaction when reintroduced.






I also would like to know the answer to these questions also  

After being strictly compliant I relented & had a bowl of icecream in company after being goaded and told how good I'd been by not eating grains. (including the blueberry dainish that went with the icecream).  Also thinking that grains are the big baddy - told myself that I'd jump straight back on the wagon BUT to my shock became so ill that it is nearly a week and I'm not quite back there yet!  

Ate at night & went to bed with unrelenting heartburn, headache in the temples & back of skull, nausea and awoke with flue-like symptoms, bloodshot watery eyes, headachey, terrible brainfog where I couldn't remember some words or concentate properly, stomach pains & an overwhelming fatigue.!

You could say I'm scared off dairy!  Will this always happen or is it just the first time and not so bad again?  Maybe it is just coincidence and the result of something like a virus?  Maybe this is  being a nonnie?

Like Susana I'd really like to know      
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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from shells
 Will this always happen or is it just the first time and not so bad again?


You have brought up another issue. Good question. I hope we get an answer.

I remember when I started BTD I went for a month 100% compliant. The day after indulging avoids I woke up with a horrid vaginal yeast infection. I had only had it once before after a period of antibiotics to remove my wisdom teeth. I never had it again and I have been on and off BTD quite regularly.

So perhaps next time you have it you won't suffer as much but, do not take this as encouragement for future indulgment.

In any case, as Accidental Chef says, perhaps you suffered so much because you are a nonny but, did you consume a lot of dairy, sugar, and wheat (the three main ingredients of avoid feast) before starting with BTD?

Sorry to read you felt so bad. Hope you are feeling better.



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lola  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:38am
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shells
Friday, January 26, 2007, 12:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No I've not had wheat for a few years - got my self off through trial & error with chronic fatigue.  Eat bread - fall asleep.  Thought I must be celiac so ate that way & felt heaps better. (Still ate corn (maize) (no gluten). Tried to get off sugar because of hypoglycemia.  

Yes ate a lot of dairy - was hooked!  But  took BTD seriously after finding myself anemic & lacking in calcium whilst eating so much cheese, warm milky drink before sleep etc. as well as calc. sups!!!!  Go figure ...

Just realised I'm rambling  -  to answer your question  -  yes I was brought up on heaps of wheat/dairy/sugar.    
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Dewdrop
Friday, January 26, 2007, 2:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Shells, this is the same reaction I got when eating dairy, (just two bites of ice cream), or any other avoid that snuck in somehow....I now trust no food or supplement that is not well researched, it is not worth loosing weeks of my life over. I bring my own food and supps with me where ever I go and am able to carry on in a somewhat normal way. I bring my own teas when meeting with friends as well, they are getting used to me. Feeling good feels good .
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Janet
Friday, January 26, 2007, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Susana...
Yes avoids...good question.
I too was brought up on all sorts of what we would now know as 'avoids' but can't say I remember anything made me ill. Sure I had my personal dislikes of some food but that was more to do with taste.

Now, I seem to have big problems when eating out...it's almost like I 'forget' what I'm supposed to be eating??
I do draw the line at some things eg bread and pork products but not necessarily wheat products eg cakes/biscuits.
But....ice cream, cream, potatoes, sauces etc etc. I eat and enjoy....

Having said that, what makes me ill?
Without a doubt...potatoes. You know how difficult it is to get the Spanish to serve rice instead of potatoes!! The potatoes give me a bloated/painful stomach and make me terribly constipated for a couple of days.
At home, I ocassionally cook potatoes for my husband but not for me and I never feel tempted to have them...just when we eat out??
Can't say dairy makes me ill nor ice cream or the odd piece of choc cake...yum!!

And so of course, it's far easier to eat at home, where I cook from scratch and eat pretty well OK.

Huge hurdles for me are our 3-5 week trips...I really suffer, not only with the food issues but also constipation...which then brings another set of problems...



Janet
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Don
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana
I would like to get a better understanding of why some react very violently to “avoids” and wonder if prior abuse of an item plays any role. If, because one has not “educated” the immune system properly, ei. has abused “avoids,” suffers more afterwards.


Quoted from Susana
Dr. D says on “Aging” book page 13: “When an antigen encounters a harmful foreign intruder, it creates antibodies against it. These antibodies serve as an early warning system. The next time the foreign intruder is encountered it will be attacked and destroyed.”

Am I correct by saying: If one has abused/consumed too much of a harmful intruder the body has created more antibodies and thus the stronger the reaction.

No, I don't think the amount one consumed an avoid before the BTD has anything to do with creating "more antibiodies and thus the stronger the reaction" against it after starting the BTD.

I think that a strong reaction to certain avoids after the system has not had them for a while is a good sign of a strong immune system. If you eat the avoids frequently your immune system reaction will be weaker.

And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


FIFHI; ISTP;
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Janet
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


Janet
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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55

No, I don't think the amount one consumed an avoid before the BTD has anything to do with creating "more antibiodies and thus the stronger the reaction" against it after starting the BTD.

I think that a strong reaction to certain avoids after the system has not had them for a while is a good sign of a strong immune system. If you eat the avoids frequently your immune system reaction will be weaker.

And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


I am glad you are back from your electromagnetic avoidance period. I hope you feel better.

Thank you for answering my question.

One more question: Non -secs will react more becuse their immune system is stronger?

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Susana
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Quoted from janet
This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


Yes Yes I also want to know.   please... please come and play too



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Quoted from Susana
One more question: Non -secs will react more becuse their immune system is stronger?

Non-secretor's immune systems are different, not necessarily stronger.

Quoted from METABOLIC AND IMMUNOLOGIC CONSEQUENCES OF ABH SECRETOR STATUS
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype2.htm

IMMUNOLOGIC CONSEQUENCES
Basic Functions
...the ABH non-secretor state is associated with a "Defense In Depth" strategy (i.e. let the invader in and attempt to destroy it internally) versus the ABH secretor state, which implies a "Preclusive Strategy" (i.e. wall out the invader and don't allow entrance in the first place.)...

On the other hand, the ability to secrete relatively different concentration of the components of the blood group substances as determined by secretors/non-secretor genetics seems to affect phagocytic activity of the leucocytes in a manner that actually places non-secretors at somewhat of an advantage. In general, leukocytes of non-secretors have substantially greater ingestion power as compared to secretors. Although this ability appears to be across the board for all non-secretors, blood group O and B non-secretors have the greatest advantage and highest phagocytic activity. (41) Perhaps this is a compensatory mechanism for their more limited antigenic barrier in their body fluids and secretions.

Results suggest that the level of anti-I in the serum of normal individuals may be affected by the donor's ABO group, secretor status and sex. For individuals with blood group O, B and AB secretors have higher levels of an antibody presumed to be auto-anti-I (cold hemagglutinin). The level of this antibody is usually even higher among non-A female secretors than for males.




FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Thank you Don. I highly appreciate your help

Determined to not eat avoids at Mother in law's tonight.



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Alia Vo
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Kyosha Nim
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I stopped eating avoids a very long time ago; I enjoy all of my beneficial foods and have no craving or desire to eat avoids.

I've become accustomed to view what I'm eating as medicine for my body that will energize, sustain, and nourish myself.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
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shells
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Quoted from debi
Shells, this is the same reaction I got when eating dairy, (just two bites of ice cream), or any other avoid that snuck in somehow....I now trust no food or supplement that is not well researched, it is not worth loosing weeks of my life over. I bring my own food and supps with me where ever I go and am able to carry on in a somewhat normal way. I bring my own teas when meeting with friends as well, they are getting used to me. Feeling good feels good .


Being polite in company versus being compliant is a biggy for me at the moment.  My family already thinks I'm weird as the way I eat is not under a 'doctor's lable' such as 'celiac'.  Like yourself I bring my own herb tea to friends when having coffee morning.  In a cafe I try to order an iced based fruit smoothie, but going over for dinner at someones place for the evening is how I got into trouble recently.  

I don't know how others handle these situations but I think I'll end up being known as that "weird funny eccentric old lady"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

           
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Quoted from ironwood55






And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


Modon - Just curious, does your Rh negativeness make you react more strongly to foods?

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Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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I don't know. I don't eat avoids.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Quoted Text
ate a lot of dairy - was hooked!  But  took BTD seriously after finding myself anemic & lacking in calcium whilst eating so much cheese, warm milky drink before sleep etc. as well as calc. sups!!!!

studies have shown that dairy isn t necessarily a source of calcium!

Quoted Text
Do you risk offending the hostess??

never have, and never will offend anyone!

if the dinner served is in the form of a buffet, which happens often nowadays.....I simply take whatever I consider ok for me, and don t take the avoids.

if the dinner party is a formal seated event, I make sure the hostess knows, my stomach is 'delicate' that night........but I do insist they give me a doggie bag so I do not miss all the goodies, as soon as I feel better!!!!   (this only if they keep insisting I try this or the other)
it always works.......and everyone is happy at the end of the ordeal.

I do not eat avoids, just to please anyone.........first comes me and my wellbeing.
selfish? yes, if anyone felt offended, but mostly, they end up pitying me and my 'delicate' stomach that night.

besides, I generally never eat dinner, so it s no biggie for me, avoiding the food, or feeling deprived or whatever people feel when not being able to eat one thing or the other...etc.

but I do let them know that I wanted to enjoy their company rather than staying home sulking!!!

why should every get together be about food, anyways?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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shells
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I am defiinitely with Lola & MoDon now  -  have learnt my lesson the hard way and will not be incapacitated for anybody.

Can see BTD is also character building !  
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you said it!!
it is your personal spiritual (strengthening) journey, where you need to believe in yourself and focus on your goals.

if you are a non smoker.........do you have to light a cigarette every time someone offers you one?
I don t think so.........
eating avoids is similar, I believe.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Victoria
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Quoted from janet
This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


I absolutely don't eat avoids ever.  What that means is that if I'm invited to someone's home for food, I have a good talk with them BEFORE they cook the meal, and explain my relationship with food.  Not everyone understands or agrees, but if they really want my company, they need to understand that if they cook me certain things, I won't be eating them.  I try and work with people to make it easier to come up with things they can prepare that will be easy on them, or I offer to bring some foods.  If anyone is upset or judgemental with me, I consider it their right, and I really don't concern myself with it.  I understand that no one like that is going to fix my body for me if I have cancer again, or if I have IBS again so badly that I develop malnutrition from not being able to digest anything.  
It is a serious matter for me, and I am not swayed in the least by other people's opinions.  I am never rude to anyone.  I communicate carefully and respectfully.  But neither will I tolerate other people being rude to me.  I have more respect for myself than that.  
There are a few people that we no longer use food as our social focal point, and will just go for a walk together, or see a movie.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Mastre
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Victoria, you're saying something important about personal boundaries here. If you let another person push you into something you don't want to do you'll be the one suffering the consequenses, not them. (A lesson it took me many years to learn, and even longer to practise.)
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Well thank you so much Lola + Victoria,
I've certainly learned a lot by reading your replies to my (sincere) question.
That is exactly right that people shouldn't necessarily be offended by our preferences...but as we know, food is a powerful tool and for some reason people take it as a personal rejection, if you can't/won't eat their food!!

Having said that...a 'delicate' stomach is a lovely and useful term to remember Lola and you are both right about 'food' being used as a social focal point...why?? I suppose it's to do with the pleasure that most people associate with 'food'.

And so...Susana..our lesson for today is to remember...
FIRST COMES ME AND MY WELL BEING...about sums it all up!!

So, I need to tell myself that....never mind about a 'hostess'...know what I mean


Janet
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Dr. D
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You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.



A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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hmmm . . . interesting, Dr. D

We are no less informed about the effects of foods upon our health, but it seems that the choice is up to the individual as to how healthy each of us chooses to be.

Edited to rephrase:  up to the individual as to what degree of health we are satisfied to stop at.  ??




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Poly
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Susana, thank you for starting a highly interesting thread.

As you probably remember from our FS-conversations, I don't react violently to avoids. Sadly enough, I could almost say, because we humans tend to learn better from trial and error - not trial and nothing...

I did eat a lot of avoids until I found BTD. I drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of dairy products and pork. Not a lot of wheat while growing up, but in university fast-food was on the menu A LOT! No health issues at all, other than irritated colon and migraines. Both runs in the family, so I didn't think anything about that...

The irritated colon disappeared when I started BTD. The migraines haven't changed yet...

When I eat too much dairy today, my old achy stomach returns, and I get too much acid in the stomach (that's new - never had any acid-problems before). I don't react to pork - not that I know of anyway...

I'm really curious what happens when I stop drinking coffee for more than 1 week. (Yes, I know... I should have quit coffee a looong time ago... ) 1 week doesn't make any difference, so I wonder what will happen when I stop drinking coffee for good. Maybe the migraines disappear??

Quoted from janet
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.


Janet, you too know me from FS and know this is a biggie for me, also.
I too have a hard time when I'm eating out. I just can't get myself to say no to well prepaired home cooked meals I know the host/hostess has used a lot of time and efford to make for me and the other guests. And I just can't get myself to use the "delicate stomach" excuse. (Well, most of my acquaintancies know me too well to buy into that one... )

Lola - you're SO right. Why DO socializing need to include food? As a Dane I can assure you: Food is a BIG part of Danish social life - I could say it's pivotal.

Quoted from lola
if you are a non smoker.........do you have to light a cigarette every time someone offers you one?
I don t think so.........
eating avoids is similar, I believe.


How right you are... (as always ) Well, when you put it like that...!

Quoted from admin
You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.



Sounds intruiging, Dr.D.! (Can't wait to read that book!) And very wise psychologically, I think!

(I already suspect, you rated chocolate and red wine as beneficial/neutral for everyone, figuring no one would be able to follow the diet 100% otherwise, heh! )



�Poly

Married to Per - GT4 Explorer - B-non - Rh+

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Quoted from Poly

I'm really curious what happens when I stop drinking coffee for more than 1 week. (Yes, I know... I should have quit coffee a looong time ago... ) 1 week doesn't make any difference, so I wonder what will happen when I stop drinking coffee for good. Maybe the migraines disappear??


Considering the strong links between migraines and coffee consumption, I think you will see excellent results...  When you are ready to let go of the coffee, please keep us updated!


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Quoted from Poly


Janet, you too know me from FS and know this is a biggie for me, also.
I too have a hard time when I'm eating out. I just can't get myself to say no to well prepaired home cooked meals I know the host/hostess has used a lot of time and efford to make for me and the other guests. And I just can't get myself to use the "delicate stomach" excuse. (Well, most of my acquaintancies know me too well to buy into that one... )

Poly...maybe the real truth is that we actually 'enjoy' what we are eating....that's what makes it sooo hard    


Janet
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italybound
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Quoted from janet
Poly...maybe the real truth is that we actually 'enjoy' what we are eating....that's what makes it sooo hard    


I'd say you have a good point here Janet.
It's funny because there are some things I just won't eat, others I can 'justify just this once'.   Really, it comes down to how compliant we want to be, how good we want to feel and how much willpower we have. I know, I know, the willpower should come w/ wanting to feel good. Just takes longer for some..........
When I was growing up we ate ALOT of pasta and grains. There were 6 kids and not alot of money to go around, so grain was cheap. We also had a lot of vitamins, our only saving grace IMHO. As an adult, I continued my awful eating habits. There are still some things that make me go  .  I do try to avoid them tho.
Re: how avoids make you feel once you've been clean. I can attest to the fact that avoids hit you harder once you've detoxed and been 100% compliant. After 3 mths, I lost my mind and ate carbboard pizza, not one night but 2. We were in the middle of remodeling, it was late, pizza was easy. By the 2nd morning after, every part of me felt like I was going to die. My eyeballs even hurt, felt like they had sand in them and burned.
Sometimes it's a long road.............



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Lola
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''about foods that did not make either of those two criteria''.......

I believe those foods are the ones I have totally forgotten about!!!

'' out of sight, out of mind''.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Alia Vo
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Quoted from lola
why should every get together be about food, anyways?


In our Western society, eating and socialization go hand-in-hand.  I feel socialization should be about people and relationships; I have often had thoughts where the focus would shift away from  food.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
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Peppermint Twist
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Quoted from admin
You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.


Hmmmm...interesting.  To be honest, this worries me a little.  Maybe it is because I've been on ER4YT/BTD since the dawn of time and I am very used to the "Beneficial, Neutral, Avoid" model.  I find it supremely and elegantly complete and simple to practice.  I find the further-refined model in the "health series" of books even better.  These models are complete because they tell us which foods act like medicines/tonics for us, which are just simply foods that add variety to our diet and nutrition, and which act more like poison to us.  The thing that makes me nervous about the above-described new model in the GTD is that is won't tell us the latter, namely, which foods the individual would really do best to steer entirely clear of.

That said, what I like about it is, it takes away a lot of guilt and self-flagellation if there are no avoids.  ...Still, to be honest, I have come to learn through the BTD that, for me anyway, there are certain foods (WHEAT!) that really should be completely avoided.  This doesn't mean, in actual practice, that one NEVER, EVER, EVER eats wheat--not in this society, anyway--but just that one is made aware that that is the ideal and thus one understands that, if one does eat some wheat and then feel poorly in some way afterwards, there is a connection.

Knowing what your "avoids" are is power!  Recently, I've come to understand that focusing on beneficials is at least as important as avoiding avoids, yet I still think knowing what your avoids are is important.

What does everyone else think on this?


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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jayney-O
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well, yes, your point is good, but as Dr.D says if a food is not a superb choice or a better choice...it is up to the imagination as to what kind of choice it is....and I think we will get used to this new way...the advantage of which is the lack of negative labeling (which can turn some people off)......subtle genius, that is what I thinkk!
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Peppermint Twist
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Yes, it is great to focus on the positive of what we should be eating, what is good for us to eat, versus what we should not be eating.  Yet by leaving avoids unlabeled as such, I was worrying that people--using O's as an example--might think that a handful of sunflower seeds was as bad as wheat.  But I thought about it and, even now, there is no differentiating between "avoid" and "SERIOUSLY, avoid this at all costs" *lol*.  So I guess that the new way will be better, because it does AC-centuate the positive, E-liminate the negative, and latch on to the affirmative, don't mess with Mr. In-Between!

Okay, put me down in the "I'm for it" column.  Not that we get a vote anyway, apparently it is a done deal *lol*!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist
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P.S.  Further musing:  Uh oh...an avoid-free world...think of the possibilities for bad little O nonnies like moi...MUAH!  Muah ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I might go WILD, people.  ...Then again, I'm coming off a recent wildness bender anyway and I knew darn good and well what my avoids were.  So go figure.  Maybe if the guilt factor were taken out of the equation, it could only help?

Yup, put me down as an "on board".  This is really growing on me.  In all seriousness, I really like how it has a totally positive emphasis.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Quoted from admin
You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.


This gives people more ownership of their own health to make choices that suit their own individual needs/concerns/goals.  

The BTD is all about individuality; I forsee that the GTD will be an incessant to this lifestyle.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
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BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
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