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Avoids... Again!  This thread currently has 2,323 views. Print Print Thread
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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from shells
 Will this always happen or is it just the first time and not so bad again?


You have brought up another issue. Good question. I hope we get an answer.

I remember when I started BTD I went for a month 100% compliant. The day after indulging avoids I woke up with a horrid vaginal yeast infection. I had only had it once before after a period of antibiotics to remove my wisdom teeth. I never had it again and I have been on and off BTD quite regularly.

So perhaps next time you have it you won't suffer as much but, do not take this as encouragement for future indulgment.

In any case, as Accidental Chef says, perhaps you suffered so much because you are a nonny but, did you consume a lot of dairy, sugar, and wheat (the three main ingredients of avoid feast) before starting with BTD?

Sorry to read you felt so bad. Hope you are feeling better.



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Susana  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:38am
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shells
Friday, January 26, 2007, 12:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No I've not had wheat for a few years - got my self off through trial & error with chronic fatigue.  Eat bread - fall asleep.  Thought I must be celiac so ate that way & felt heaps better. (Still ate corn (maize) (no gluten). Tried to get off sugar because of hypoglycemia.  

Yes ate a lot of dairy - was hooked!  But  took BTD seriously after finding myself anemic & lacking in calcium whilst eating so much cheese, warm milky drink before sleep etc. as well as calc. sups!!!!  Go figure ...

Just realised I'm rambling  -  to answer your question  -  yes I was brought up on heaps of wheat/dairy/sugar.    
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Dewdrop
Friday, January 26, 2007, 2:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Shells, this is the same reaction I got when eating dairy, (just two bites of ice cream), or any other avoid that snuck in somehow....I now trust no food or supplement that is not well researched, it is not worth loosing weeks of my life over. I bring my own food and supps with me where ever I go and am able to carry on in a somewhat normal way. I bring my own teas when meeting with friends as well, they are getting used to me. Feeling good feels good .
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Janet
Friday, January 26, 2007, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+Somewhere Between BTD+Warrior
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Hi Susana...
Yes avoids...good question.
I too was brought up on all sorts of what we would now know as 'avoids' but can't say I remember anything made me ill. Sure I had my personal dislikes of some food but that was more to do with taste.

Now, I seem to have big problems when eating out...it's almost like I 'forget' what I'm supposed to be eating??
I do draw the line at some things eg bread and pork products but not necessarily wheat products eg cakes/biscuits.
But....ice cream, cream, potatoes, sauces etc etc. I eat and enjoy....

Having said that, what makes me ill?
Without a doubt...potatoes. You know how difficult it is to get the Spanish to serve rice instead of potatoes!! The potatoes give me a bloated/painful stomach and make me terribly constipated for a couple of days.
At home, I ocassionally cook potatoes for my husband but not for me and I never feel tempted to have them...just when we eat out??
Can't say dairy makes me ill nor ice cream or the odd piece of choc cake...yum!!

And so of course, it's far easier to eat at home, where I cook from scratch and eat pretty well OK.

Huge hurdles for me are our 3-5 week trips...I really suffer, not only with the food issues but also constipation...which then brings another set of problems...



Janet
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Don
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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Quoted from Susana
I would like to get a better understanding of why some react very violently to “avoids” and wonder if prior abuse of an item plays any role. If, because one has not “educated” the immune system properly, ei. has abused “avoids,” suffers more afterwards.


Quoted from Susana
Dr. D says on “Aging” book page 13: “When an antigen encounters a harmful foreign intruder, it creates antibodies against it. These antibodies serve as an early warning system. The next time the foreign intruder is encountered it will be attacked and destroyed.”

Am I correct by saying: If one has abused/consumed too much of a harmful intruder the body has created more antibodies and thus the stronger the reaction.

No, I don't think the amount one consumed an avoid before the BTD has anything to do with creating "more antibiodies and thus the stronger the reaction" against it after starting the BTD.

I think that a strong reaction to certain avoids after the system has not had them for a while is a good sign of a strong immune system. If you eat the avoids frequently your immune system reaction will be weaker.

And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Janet
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+Somewhere Between BTD+Warrior
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This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


Janet
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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55

No, I don't think the amount one consumed an avoid before the BTD has anything to do with creating "more antibiodies and thus the stronger the reaction" against it after starting the BTD.

I think that a strong reaction to certain avoids after the system has not had them for a while is a good sign of a strong immune system. If you eat the avoids frequently your immune system reaction will be weaker.

And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


I am glad you are back from your electromagnetic avoidance period. I hope you feel better.

Thank you for answering my question.

One more question: Non -secs will react more becuse their immune system is stronger?

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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from janet
This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


Yes Yes I also want to know.   please... please come and play too



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Susana  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 7:56pm
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Don
Friday, January 26, 2007, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana
One more question: Non -secs will react more becuse their immune system is stronger?

Non-secretor's immune systems are different, not necessarily stronger.

Quoted from METABOLIC AND IMMUNOLOGIC CONSEQUENCES OF ABH SECRETOR STATUS
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype2.htm

IMMUNOLOGIC CONSEQUENCES
Basic Functions
...the ABH non-secretor state is associated with a "Defense In Depth" strategy (i.e. let the invader in and attempt to destroy it internally) versus the ABH secretor state, which implies a "Preclusive Strategy" (i.e. wall out the invader and don't allow entrance in the first place.)...

On the other hand, the ability to secrete relatively different concentration of the components of the blood group substances as determined by secretors/non-secretor genetics seems to affect phagocytic activity of the leucocytes in a manner that actually places non-secretors at somewhat of an advantage. In general, leukocytes of non-secretors have substantially greater ingestion power as compared to secretors. Although this ability appears to be across the board for all non-secretors, blood group O and B non-secretors have the greatest advantage and highest phagocytic activity. (41) Perhaps this is a compensatory mechanism for their more limited antigenic barrier in their body fluids and secretions.

Results suggest that the level of anti-I in the serum of normal individuals may be affected by the donor's ABO group, secretor status and sex. For individuals with blood group O, B and AB secretors have higher levels of an antibody presumed to be auto-anti-I (cold hemagglutinin). The level of this antibody is usually even higher among non-A female secretors than for males.




FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Susana  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 8:47pm
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Susana
Friday, January 26, 2007, 8:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you Don. I highly appreciate your help

Determined to not eat avoids at Mother in law's tonight.



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Alia Vo
Friday, January 26, 2007, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I stopped eating avoids a very long time ago; I enjoy all of my beneficial foods and have no craving or desire to eat avoids.

I've become accustomed to view what I'm eating as medicine for my body that will energize, sustain, and nourish myself.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
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shells
Friday, January 26, 2007, 11:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from debi
Shells, this is the same reaction I got when eating dairy, (just two bites of ice cream), or any other avoid that snuck in somehow....I now trust no food or supplement that is not well researched, it is not worth loosing weeks of my life over. I bring my own food and supps with me where ever I go and am able to carry on in a somewhat normal way. I bring my own teas when meeting with friends as well, they are getting used to me. Feeling good feels good .


Being polite in company versus being compliant is a biggy for me at the moment.  My family already thinks I'm weird as the way I eat is not under a 'doctor's lable' such as 'celiac'.  Like yourself I bring my own herb tea to friends when having coffee morning.  In a cafe I try to order an iced based fruit smoothie, but going over for dinner at someones place for the evening is how I got into trouble recently.  

I don't know how others handle these situations but I think I'll end up being known as that "weird funny eccentric old lady"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

           
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shells
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 12:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55






And, as has already been stated I think non-secretors will typically react worse to avoids.


Modon - Just curious, does your Rh negativeness make you react more strongly to foods?

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Don
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 12:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I don't know. I don't eat avoids.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Lola
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 12:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
ate a lot of dairy - was hooked!  But  took BTD seriously after finding myself anemic & lacking in calcium whilst eating so much cheese, warm milky drink before sleep etc. as well as calc. sups!!!!

studies have shown that dairy isn t necessarily a source of calcium!

Quoted Text
Do you risk offending the hostess??

never have, and never will offend anyone!

if the dinner served is in the form of a buffet, which happens often nowadays.....I simply take whatever I consider ok for me, and don t take the avoids.

if the dinner party is a formal seated event, I make sure the hostess knows, my stomach is 'delicate' that night........but I do insist they give me a doggie bag so I do not miss all the goodies, as soon as I feel better!!!!   (this only if they keep insisting I try this or the other)
it always works.......and everyone is happy at the end of the ordeal.

I do not eat avoids, just to please anyone.........first comes me and my wellbeing.
selfish? yes, if anyone felt offended, but mostly, they end up pitying me and my 'delicate' stomach that night.

besides, I generally never eat dinner, so it s no biggie for me, avoiding the food, or feeling deprived or whatever people feel when not being able to eat one thing or the other...etc.

but I do let them know that I wanted to enjoy their company rather than staying home sulking!!!

why should every get together be about food, anyways?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Susana  -  Saturday, January 27, 2007, 1:02am
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shells
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 3:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Rh -
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I am defiinitely with Lola & MoDon now  -  have learnt my lesson the hard way and will not be incapacitated for anybody.

Can see BTD is also character building !  
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Lola
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 4:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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you said it!!
it is your personal spiritual (strengthening) journey, where you need to believe in yourself and focus on your goals.

if you are a non smoker.........do you have to light a cigarette every time someone offers you one?
I don t think so.........
eating avoids is similar, I believe.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Victoria
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 5:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from janet
This question is particularly for A+VICTORIA.
I appreciate that neither of you eat avoids, ever.
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.  


I absolutely don't eat avoids ever.  What that means is that if I'm invited to someone's home for food, I have a good talk with them BEFORE they cook the meal, and explain my relationship with food.  Not everyone understands or agrees, but if they really want my company, they need to understand that if they cook me certain things, I won't be eating them.  I try and work with people to make it easier to come up with things they can prepare that will be easy on them, or I offer to bring some foods.  If anyone is upset or judgemental with me, I consider it their right, and I really don't concern myself with it.  I understand that no one like that is going to fix my body for me if I have cancer again, or if I have IBS again so badly that I develop malnutrition from not being able to digest anything.  
It is a serious matter for me, and I am not swayed in the least by other people's opinions.  I am never rude to anyone.  I communicate carefully and respectfully.  But neither will I tolerate other people being rude to me.  I have more respect for myself than that.  
There are a few people that we no longer use food as our social focal point, and will just go for a walk together, or see a movie.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Mastre
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 8:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria, you're saying something important about personal boundaries here. If you let another person push you into something you don't want to do you'll be the one suffering the consequenses, not them. (A lesson it took me many years to learn, and even longer to practise.)
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Janet
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 5:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+Somewhere Between BTD+Warrior
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Well thank you so much Lola + Victoria,
I've certainly learned a lot by reading your replies to my (sincere) question.
That is exactly right that people shouldn't necessarily be offended by our preferences...but as we know, food is a powerful tool and for some reason people take it as a personal rejection, if you can't/won't eat their food!!

Having said that...a 'delicate' stomach is a lovely and useful term to remember Lola and you are both right about 'food' being used as a social focal point...why?? I suppose it's to do with the pleasure that most people associate with 'food'.

And so...Susana..our lesson for today is to remember...
FIRST COMES ME AND MY WELL BEING...about sums it all up!!

So, I need to tell myself that....never mind about a 'hostess'...know what I mean


Janet
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Dr. D
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.



A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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Victoria
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hmmm . . . interesting, Dr. D

We are no less informed about the effects of foods upon our health, but it seems that the choice is up to the individual as to how healthy each of us chooses to be.

Edited to rephrase:  up to the individual as to what degree of health we are satisfied to stop at.  ??




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Poly
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Susana, thank you for starting a highly interesting thread.

As you probably remember from our FS-conversations, I don't react violently to avoids. Sadly enough, I could almost say, because we humans tend to learn better from trial and error - not trial and nothing...

I did eat a lot of avoids until I found BTD. I drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of dairy products and pork. Not a lot of wheat while growing up, but in university fast-food was on the menu A LOT! No health issues at all, other than irritated colon and migraines. Both runs in the family, so I didn't think anything about that...

The irritated colon disappeared when I started BTD. The migraines haven't changed yet...

When I eat too much dairy today, my old achy stomach returns, and I get too much acid in the stomach (that's new - never had any acid-problems before). I don't react to pork - not that I know of anyway...

I'm really curious what happens when I stop drinking coffee for more than 1 week. (Yes, I know... I should have quit coffee a looong time ago... ) 1 week doesn't make any difference, so I wonder what will happen when I stop drinking coffee for good. Maybe the migraines disappear??

Quoted from janet
But what happens when you're invited to eat at someones home and there is literally nothing to eat but AVOIDS?? Or the main dish is an avoid? Do you risk offending the hostess?? Or just take a little but don't eat it, or what??
Well, in your culture the hostess may always serve lots of choices but it's not usually common in Britain...in my experience. Some people even serve your food from the kitchen, thus you are presented with your 'plate'...et al at the table.  
I'd be really interested to know because Susana and I have had this conversation before.


Janet, you too know me from FS and know this is a biggie for me, also.
I too have a hard time when I'm eating out. I just can't get myself to say no to well prepaired home cooked meals I know the host/hostess has used a lot of time and efford to make for me and the other guests. And I just can't get myself to use the "delicate stomach" excuse. (Well, most of my acquaintancies know me too well to buy into that one... )

Lola - you're SO right. Why DO socializing need to include food? As a Dane I can assure you: Food is a BIG part of Danish social life - I could say it's pivotal.

Quoted from lola
if you are a non smoker.........do you have to light a cigarette every time someone offers you one?
I don t think so.........
eating avoids is similar, I believe.


How right you are... (as always ) Well, when you put it like that...!

Quoted from admin
You  might be interested to know that the GTD doesn't have 'avoids'. Only 'superb choices' and 'better choices'.

One can draw their own conclusions about foods that did not make either of those two criteria.



Sounds intruiging, Dr.D.! (Can't wait to read that book!) And very wise psychologically, I think!

(I already suspect, you rated chocolate and red wine as beneficial/neutral for everyone, figuring no one would be able to follow the diet 100% otherwise, heh! )



�Poly

Married to Per - GT4 Explorer - B-non - Rh+

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Whimsical
Saturday, January 27, 2007, 7:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Poly

I'm really curious what happens when I stop drinking coffee for more than 1 week. (Yes, I know... I should have quit coffee a looong time ago... ) 1 week doesn't make any difference, so I wonder what will happen when I stop drinking coffee for good. Maybe the migraines disappear??


Considering the strong links between migraines and coffee consumption, I think you will see excellent results...  When you are ready to let go of the coffee, please keep us updated!


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Janet
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Quoted from Poly


Janet, you too know me from FS and know this is a biggie for me, also.
I too have a hard time when I'm eating out. I just can't get myself to say no to well prepaired home cooked meals I know the host/hostess has used a lot of time and efford to make for me and the other guests. And I just can't get myself to use the "delicate stomach" excuse. (Well, most of my acquaintancies know me too well to buy into that one... )

Poly...maybe the real truth is that we actually 'enjoy' what we are eating....that's what makes it sooo hard    


Janet
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