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queueball
Monday, May 15, 2006, 5:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Dear Folks,

Thanks to the recommendations of several celiackers, I have eliminated all grains for about a week now, and have some questions about what to expect and observe from here on.

I have read somewhere that gluten is a sort of addiction.  If so, what are the withdrawal symptoms?

After the first full day off all glutens, I experienced four nights of terrible sleep, along with even worse nocturia (nighttime urinary frequency) than usual.  Prior to eliminating glutens, I had been eating a few rye crackers a day, and drinking a beer or two in the evenings (barley). I felt like I had been drinking coffee all day, and could not get comfortable or lie still for hours and hours.  It was not a pleasant energy, since I was exhausted at the same time.  Is this a withdrawal symptom?

It has been recommended that I eliminate all grains from my diet for a time, glutens or not.  Two questions about this.  One, why?   Two, what about brown rice?

Lastly, about how long before I should notice improvement in pain, fatigue, etc. which is significant enough to conclude that I have CD?  And what should I look for, in general?

Love to all (even Judi), q.
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Melissa_J
Monday, May 15, 2006, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Is your daytime urinary frequency up too?  Could be detoxification.  I needed to lose weight, but I lost a lot of weight my first week, presumably water weight.

Have you eliminated alcohol entirely as well, along with the beer?

I didn't eliminate all grains initially, I took the gradual approach so that I could tell what changed with each step.  After more than a week, the "fun" began though...once my gut started to heal the new immature cells started reacting to a lot of foods.  Most of them were non-secretor avoids, but gluten free, like tapioca.  I think pain (joint and digestive pain) were the first things to improve for me.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Lola
Monday, May 15, 2006, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria
Monday, May 15, 2006, 6:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from queueball
Dear Folks,

Thanks to the recommendations of several celiackers, I have eliminated all grains for about a week now, and have some questions about what to expect and observe from here on.

After the first full day off all glutens, I experienced four nights of terrible sleep, along with even worse nocturia (nighttime urinary frequency) than usual.  Prior to eliminating glutens, I had been eating a few rye crackers a day, and drinking a beer or two in the evenings (barley). I felt like I had been drinking coffee all day, and could not get comfortable or lie still for hours and hours.  It was not a pleasant energy, since I was exhausted at the same time.  Is this a withdrawal symptom?

I would say so, yup!

It has been recommended that I eliminate all grains from my diet for a time, glutens or not.  Two questions about this.  One, why?   Two, what about brown rice?

Some people don't do well with grains at all, but I don't see this as a celiac issue.  It is something different.  Rice should not trigger celiac.  I'd be interested in seeing what Melissa says, but I personally don't hesitate to eat toasted rice cakes.  That's the only grain I eat.






Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Melissa_J
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 5:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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I have nothing against brown rice  I've never really cut out rice to compare, but cut down on it drastically to lose weight.  Presoaking is a nice step to improve nutrients and digestion.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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queueball
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 5:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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As we used to say in high school, where white rice seemed to be served nearly every day, "rice is nice".  We were being sarcastic about the pasty, over-cooked, mounds of stuff they served, but considering what kids get today for lunch, we should not have complained

I plan on sprouting rice before cooking, and experimenting with making granola bars of some kind with sprouted rice.  Eventually I will work on rice beer and wine.

Right now I am drinking small amounts (3 - 4oz) of homemade plum wine before bed.  I do not do alcohol when I am bleeding, since it is a blood thinner.  I am not bleeding now.  It helps me get to sleep, and the nocturia has diminished considerably the past couple of nights.

More later, my damn laptop is acting up.
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Melissa_J
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Keep us posted on how you feel, and let us know how your rice experiments go!


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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queueball
Friday, May 26, 2006, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I can't figure out how to say all this without rambling, so anyway . . .

I have heard, although I have not researched the science, that the genes for physical endurance and pain tolerance are on the X chromosome, and that since women have two of them, they handle illness better, in general, than men.  I'm not so sure things really work this way, but it does make sense from my personal experience.

I think this female superiority may relate to why I have heard almost entirely from women since I have been posting this forum.  Women tend to have the extra energy and compassion left over after fighting their own disease to help others out.

However, this also creates a couple of problems.  One, perhaps this extra strength prevents women from fully empathizing with the extra torment men may have from the same disease (and perhaps we don't deserve this empathy anyway).  And two, it means we don't get to hear much from men because they are too exhausted and self-concerned.

Some of you guys have been a bit short with me from time to time, as has my sister, for example.  Why don't you do so-and-so and such-and-such.  Well, I can't.  I can barely walk from here to the kitchen sometimes, and then I have to cook.

I can't, for example, look through all the food values and memorize them all on line.  It would take many hours to do this, and I do not have the mental or physical ability to do it.  Things have changed since the book was published, and there should be a down-loadable, printable, current and condensed list of beneficials, etc..

I have had a few good days, which is encouraging.  The bleeding has stopped, apparently for good, and I have judged that healing of the stomach ulcers has begun because a small amount of alcohol no longer knocks me on my expletive deleted.  Previously, it was absorbed directly into my bloodstream through the ulcers, I think.  Acid reflux is almost completely gone.  The only time I get a touch of it is when I drink my homemade wine, so I am off that for now.  It doesn't help me sleep so much anyway, since I am not absorbing it like I was.  Catnip tea at night from now on.  There's a fresh batching drying right now.

I don't know if my blood count has come back up, but I am planning on getting back on supplements as soon as I research that, especially the iron.

I started eating brown rice again a couple of weeks ago, and it has helped with my regularity, however, I have been extremely fatigued most of the same period.  When this last batch of rice and black-eyed-peas is gone, I'll go off rice for a while and see what happens.

I also find that when I eat black-eyed-peas, I have much less GI distress than when I eat red meat alone.  However, there is a mention in the BTD book that beans can interfere with the absorbtion of iron, I think.  

Does this mean I should not eat beans with meat?

I have always had low body temperature, by about a degree.  This is supposed to indicate hypo-thyroidism, I have read.  The past two weeks, I have had a fever, about 99.5 on average, after I eat, and the past couple of days my body temp seems to be occasionally holding at the normal temp of 98.6, and the fevers have lessened.  98.6, however, feels like a fever.

Maybe the fevers were due to celiac inflamation?

Maybe my body is trying to recover from five decades of suppressed thyroid?

If so, these discomforts would actually be a good sign.  It would also mean that my whole metabolism would have some painful adjusting to do, I would think.

Three questions you guys have not answered yet, or showed me where to find the answers:

I.  What is the protocol for challenge/elimination testing of foods, herbs, etc.?

II.  What should I look for in terms of improvement overall if I do have celiac disease?

III.  What sort of time-table should I use to judge my progress?

I know I could, theoretically, dig up this information myself, but really guys, I can't.  Please bear with me.
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Lola
Friday, May 26, 2006, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/staff/archives/00000335.htm

I am sure celiacs on the forums will come to your rescue, answering your questions.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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lola  -  Friday, May 26, 2006, 8:18pm
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KimonoKat
Friday, May 26, 2006, 8:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Queueball, I've emailed you a copy of the Type O secretor food list from one of the Health Series books.  It's a home made copy I made to carry with me, and put on my fridge.  The food is broken down into five categories:

Super Beneficial
Beneficial
Neutral (allowed frequently)
Neutral (allowed infrequently)
Avoid

The goal would be to eat 100% of your diet from the super bennies & bennie's lists.

Hope this helps you.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Saturday, May 27, 2006, 7:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Queueball,

I think it would be helpful if you shared on the board some of the questions and frustrations you expressed in your recent email to me, after I sent you the Health Series food list.

I did email you back and answered your frustrations as best I could, but there are those on the board who could help answer your questions, better.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Victoria
Saturday, May 27, 2006, 9:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just discovered this note I wrote you last night and thought I posted!

Queueball,
It sounds to me like you have turned in the direction of healing and you are having some signs of your body's steps toward recovery.
I don't have answers to some of your questions, but here's a few words, just my ideas, not scientific proofs:
II.  As far as improvements, I suggest you write down all the major complaints (for your own records), and then watch to see which of them changes over time.  The reason I suggest writing them down is that as you improve, you may forget the details of how you felt before.
III.  I don't know the answer for you.  If it were me, I would not be as concerned about timelines if I was at least seeing SOME progress.

I don't remember from any other posts of yours if you are using supplement protocols.  If not, here are a few for digestive health, ulcers and stomach healing from LY4YT:
Bladderwrack
golderseal
Coptis (available at natural food stores under the Plum Flower Brand)
Probiotica
Marshmallow root
slippery elm
thyme
ghee 1 tsp. 2 x daily, or butyrate
gentian or digestive bitters, a few drops before eating
avoid all coffee chocolate, mints and black tea

additional from the Encyclopedia:
Deflect O
Larch arabinogalactan (ARA6)
L-Glutamine 200 mg. caps (1 to 2 caps twice daily.)



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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JK
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 1:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Q!

I'll have a go at tackling some of your questions. I have been soo busy this past month that I have hardly been checking in here or my email.

You asked, "Some questions you guys have not answered yet, or showed me where to find the answers:

I. What is the protocol for challenge/elimination testing of foods, herbs, etc.?

II. What should I look for in terms of improvement overall if I do have celiac disease?

III. What sort of time-table should I use to judge my progress?"

challenge/elimination testing : best way is to stop eating suspected foods - if there are too many of them, the very best way is to stop eating everything you normally eat and go on a rare foods diet (I had to do this); only eat foods you have hardly ever eaten. Do this for at least 1 month to 6 weeks then eat ONE of the foods from your elinated list, and eat a lot of it throughout the day if the first few bites don't tell you! Be careful though and be expecting some sort of allergic reaction or nausea or headache, hives, etc. If you have asthma, have your inhaler nearby. Keep a food journal since some food intolerances may show symptoms only after several days - so don't test more than 1 food per week. Yes, this takes time.

terms of improvement re celiac: well, I stopped getting wicked nauseous after every gluten containing meal! But that was just the start for me. I had to give up dairy too, then goat dairy too, then I had to ferret out all of my food sensitivities via above protocol...Each step helped me improve, but I am not there yet. I have a leaky gut, which is healing nicely I am sure, but I have other issues which may or may not be affecting you too, like gut dysbioses. Bacterial, fungal and probably viral pathogens that have taken advantage of my compromised state for years. This is a difficult battle, when your enemy is firmly entrenched! So these things have improved for me: less indigestion, less painful gas distending my abdomen, fewer pimple breakouts, less congestion and mucus, pain decreased, less frequent need to urinate, better sleep, some energy!! but still need more, etc.

time table: I agree with Victoria; don't be impatient. As long as you are improving, know that it will take time. I was at my worst last August, probably a year after giving up the last gluten, so I didn't institute all of these recommendations at the same time. Hope you can benefit from my learning curve here. Last August is when I started figuring out my food intolerances since I had just then figured out that I have leaky gut. I was barely able to get myself about the house and cook for myself - was not working, now I am but under 40hrs/wk.. Definitely much better, but I know I have a long ways to go yet.

I also take a lot of supplements: HCL, Klaire labs digestive enzymes, probiotics, and multis, eat only organic, try to keep fruit consumption to 2 servings a day, 100% compliance to BTD and SCD principles, no alcohol, etc. It is not easy, not at all. And it is expensive. But it IS worth it. Good luck!

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Laura P
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 3:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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As far as healing goes and a timeline I also want to add that you will take two steps forward and three steps back and then four steps foward, this is your body rebalancing, detoxing, healing, it is normal and frustrating, but a good sign



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


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queueball
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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J, what are SCD principles?  I assume the C is for celiac, and the D is for diet.  What is it and what are they?

I suppose I should feel lucky I do not have some of the symptoms you do.

I do not get nauseous.  I have not had hives in years, although I did get them frequently at one time.

I have been taking cayenne, to stop bleeding, along with a calcium supplement for my back injury, and most of the type O protocol for GI healing and protection.  I am letting the supplements run out one at a time, to see how I respond.  I plan to go off them altogether for a while to see where I am at, and because I can't afford to buy everything I should be taking anyway.

JK, thanks for the info on challenge/elimination.  I am going to use that and any other advice I am given on c/e testing to put together my own protocol, under ya'll's guidance.

I plan to include some fasting, which I think might speed things up and give my gut some relief.  I have fasted before, and find that when done right, it gives me a pleasant sense of freedom.

I also plan to include Kombucha tea while fasting.  It is an appetite suppressant, and has a number of components which should help in GI healing and in combatting alien organisms.  I have asked elsewhere in the forums about K tea and type O, and gotten no reply, so I guess I'll find out for myself.  

The idea is to go off the fast starting with a particular indicator food, something which might help rule in or out a whole category of foods, rather than one at a time.  I am thinking of Oats being the first such food, since it is considered a good fast-breaker, and the celiac site says oats have recently been found ok for celiacs.  I would also like to be able to make granola.

My main immediate reactions to foods are GI pain, back pain, fatigue, gas, fever, mind fog and irritability.  Sometimes I get diarhea.  Longer term, there is constant fatigue and muscle and joint pain when active, shortness of breath, tinitis, dizzyness and light-headedness when standing up too fast.  I am probably leaving things out, but these are the indicators I will be trying to use when testing foods.

I am having a bit of a problem with mind fog right now.  I have had to resort to melatonin to get to sleep some nights lately, and last night I did not sleep well anyway.  If I take it and don't sleep, I am tired and foggy in the morning.

As for patience.  It does help to have something of a time-line to use.  However, I am 53 and don't have the natural reserves to go through a prolonged period of testing and recovery.  I don't know how much longer I will be around anyway.  If it takes ten years, by then it is unlikely I will be able to return to anything like my previous level of activity.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, personality-wise, are not type A's and type B's naturally more patient than type O's?

JK, I would be interested to know, what kind of diet had you been in the habit of eating over the years prior to the downturn in your health and your discovery of BTD?  Would you say it was generally what is considered a healthy diet?
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Lola
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 4:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

Quoted Text
Heidi s take:
I am also a type O and I drink Kombucha w/ green tea (combo) and it REALLY
alleviates digestive problems for me- and BOY am I one for digestive problems.
Who knows...I'm gonna stick with it. If the lists keep *changing* than maybe
it'll eventually show up as okay.

**sigh***

I don't know...but our bodies must know something!
I feel funny about it, still, so I know what you mean.

--Heidi


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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lola  -  Sunday, May 28, 2006, 5:03pm
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JK
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I eat according to SCD principles so that I don't continue to feed the bad bacteria and fungi polysaccharides and starches -- essentially it is a list of foods that contain little in the way of complex sugars. People with digestive inflammation, leaky gut or celiacs often have difficulty digesting complex sugars since the enzymes that do this work are no longer present. These enzymes are made in the cells at the tips of villi (finger-like projections on the lining of your intestines which increase surface area and absorption). Collectively, villi are referred to as your brush border. Your brush border is very delicate and if your immune system is attacking your digestive tract, as is the case for people with an active celiac or leaky gut inflammation, etc, then you have a reduced or obliterated brush hborder depending on the severity of the problem. So you can't digest the complex sugars and starches...but the bad bacteria and fungi CAN. They proliferate, causing more inflammation, excrete their wastes into your system, burdening your liver, on and on. This is dysbiosis and the SCD way of eating tries to starve the bad bugs out -- at least not feed them - feeding them is like pouring gasoline on a flame!

And if you brush border is damaged, you will have trouble completely digesting proteins. Same reason, enzymes necessary for the last step in the breakdown, dipeptidases are not available. There was a good thread about this, Amino Acids. I'll search to see if it is still there - probably has ben too long. If anyone has saved it, would you mind sharing??

I would be cautious of the fasting since your body needs lots of nutrients to heal. Just my humble opinion! You might want to consider supplementing with L-glutamine -- it is used in vast amounts by the digestive system for tissue repair.

I did suffer with most of the symptoms you listed too, except the diarrhea as I tend to constipate.

It won't take ten years, but I too have to accept the possibility of never feeling like I did in my twenties!! ! Realistically, it could take up to a few years but I have seen so much improvement since last August that I am really hopeful. I don't know how long I will have to continue with this way of eating/living but I would be OK with it the rest of my life if necessary and if I had regained my health completely because of it.

I started eating according to BTD over 3 years ago. I have lost track of the time, maybe even 4. But I didn't know I was a celiac until about 2 yrs ago. I had been eating less than healthy food choices before BTD, but not as bad as the Standard American Diet (SAD), all of my life. So I am trying to heal from a lifetime of cumulative damage. I was never really healthy and as I look back, I see how one thing was related to another and another as symptoms increased over the past decade to the point where I was last August. I don't know what came first, whether I was a celiac all of my life which caused leaky gut, or the other way around. Doesn't really matter now. Now I know what to do and I am much better. I hope you can say the same in less time than it took me!!  
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Victoria
Sunday, May 28, 2006, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Queueball, regarding Kombucha, there seems to be a lot of ambivalence about it.  Those who like it, like it.  Those who are suspicious of it's unknown factors tend to shun it.  A lot of folks feel like Heidi, in the post above by Lola.  They use it, benefit from it, and still remain somewhat cautious and skeptical.
My daughter has recently begun using it, and I think she drinks way too much of it.  However, she says that her body feels very good when she drinks it.  To my own tastes, it is too sour.  So you may have to be your own best judge.

I guess B's are more patient than O's.    I don't know about A's.  They can be a bit fragile with unknowns!  

JK, that was a wonderful and informative post.  I'm going to save it!



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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queueball
Monday, May 29, 2006, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What she said, Judi.

Where does one come across such information?  The celiac.com site is a bit of a mess, but I'm going to get back there the next rainy day I feel good.

I have used Kombucha before, and also drank way more than you are supposed to because of the clean-feeling energy it gave me.  That was years ago, and I have just aquired a new culture I'll be trying soon.

I don't know why Heidi's post did not come up when I searched the forums.

Vic, I love sour, and I miss vinegar.  I'm using fresh lemon and lime juice, and I have doubts that it is agreeing with me.

I may not fast longer than two or three days.  The last time I tried, shortly before BTD, it was clearly not a good idea, but I also was not feeling well and so miserable after every meal that not eating seemed like a good idea at the time.

J, it seems you accidentally answered a question nobody else has, about why cut out all grains for a while.  It's the complex carbs.

Growing up, my Dad always encouraged eating red meat as rare as possible, his theory being it was more digestible this way.  For a while in high school I ate raw meat sandwiches for lunch.  Lately, though, for various reasons, I have been cooking my meat longer, and at higher temp.  What do you think about the relationship between protein digestibility and cooking method.  I just got an oven I can braise in, which I think might help.

Enzymes for complex carbs can be supplied by sprouting, right?  How does one sprout a piece of meat?
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KimonoKat
Monday, May 29, 2006, 12:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from queueball


I don't know why Heidi's post did not come up when I searched the forums.


Heidi had a column, and that's where the info probably is.  It's still listed up there with the bloggers.  You can search that.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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italybound
Monday, May 29, 2006, 12:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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queueball, for type O's, Dr. D recommends eating our beef, bison on the rare side. Believe it or not, 7 years ago when I got married, I ate ALL of my meat well done. Well done. That's how I was raised. The DH eats his steak rare. It used to make me almost throw up. No I eat my beef rare to med rare. And I said I never would.  
So as rare as you can stand it is good.



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queueball
Wednesday, June 21, 2006, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Update and feedback time.

I was feeling much better a couple of weeks ago, and made the mistake of climbing a steep hill with some friends to watch the sunset.  The next day I went into a relapse, and it has taken me all this time to work my way out.  Has anyone else found that overdoing physical exercise, especially for type O's, can be a serious problem?  Often with me it seems to precipitate GI pain.

I started GI bleeding again right after the hill climb, and it took about a week to stop that, by which time I was pretty bad off, anemia-wise.  I started taking Ferrous Fumarate again, which seems to be less upsetting as an iron supplement than the herbal stuff, which I suspect has alfalfa.  I also think I am absorbing it better.  It was a very discouraging and depressing time, but I seem to be coming out of it slowly.

During roughly the same period as the hill climb, there was a kitchen slip-up, and some wheat-containg soy-sauce got into some marinade that was re-used for about a week, so I have also been in pain for those couple of weeks since, as a result.  I would like to hear opinions about whether a wheat slip-up like this, at this early stage, will put me back all the way to ground zero.  Will it undo all the healing I have done to this point, do you think?  It sure felt like it.

I also cheated some with smoked rainbow trout and smoked turkey.

I also have some suspicion soy, even from Bragg's, might be a problem, so I have finally ordered a secretor test, since non-secretors are sensitve to soy.  I am finally convinced, having bought the live right book, that I need to know, especially since I love avocado.

In some of my research into Celiac Disease, there seems to be some indication that it can be worse for males, although the reasons are not clear.  

I have been off all alcohol forever now, it seems, and I don't really want it anymore anyway, most of the time.

I have been mostly steaming my meat and vegetables to improve digestibility.  Hopefully this will help with absorbing the iron and proteins from the beef.

I also have been making a lot of beef jerky, at very low temperature in the oven.  I am hoping this is equivalent to rare beef, since it stays red.  I will provide a recipe or two when I get it perfected.

Speaking of recipes, for Heidi, have you tried Kombucha tea mixed half and half with pineapple juice?  Killer.  The cheap canned stuff from the store is kind of yucky, so I tried the mix with Kombucha and was floored.  You only want to sip it slowly, even though it is so good.

I have had absolutely no grains, and perhaps that is why I have been constipated.  Having started back on the iron has made it worse.  I am about to start using a rectal syringe or enema bag to get things started on a regular basis.  I don't want to take any more herbs or chemicals to move things along, and I think a lot of my fatigue may be due to turd retention.

If my anemia does not improve soon, I am thinking of making a trip to Florida to visit my brother, who has shown no signs of Celiac or other blood-type related problems, to get a transfusion from him.  I am thinking that not only will this jump-start the healing, but he may have blood factors which either are depleted from my system or were never there, which will help me combat the disease and heal.  After the last transfusion, about a year ago, I felt relatively great for three or four months, until I bled out.

By the way, one source says 2 - 6 months to heal Celiac damage, another says if the damage is too severe and long term, it may never heal.  Part of the reason for the Kombucha tea is that it supposedly contains components which are building blocks of GI structure, which I don't recall right now, except for colagen.

Later, q.
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Lola
Thursday, June 22, 2006, 12:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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sorry to hear about your relapse.......
hope you feel better soon.

be as compliant as you possibly can, BTD really works!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Laura P
Thursday, June 22, 2006, 2:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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As far as how long it takes to heal,  I think it depends on how long you went undiagnosed, for me it was many years, I have a long road ahead



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Serena
Thursday, June 22, 2006, 5:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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just about the no grains and constipation- are you eating a lot of fibrous veggies? Granted, I have grains, but I can go two days without grains, and no digestive probs, I think, because I eat broccoli, spinach, carrots etc...
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Lloyd
Friday, June 23, 2006, 5:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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O's should be getting most of their fiber from fruits and veggies.
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KimonoKat
Friday, June 23, 2006, 6:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Are you doing any ghee on an empty stomach?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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queueball
Monday, July 3, 2006, 2:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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There has been a major setback, and drastic measures have been taken.

Week before last I had a CBC (complete blood count) done, and my hemoglobin was down to 7.4, the lowest it has been in over a year, since the last time I went into the hospital for a transfusion.

I have made an appointment with a new MD, recommended by an alternative health practitioner, for a few days from now.  If my count has not come up significantly, I will have to have another transfusion, something I would like to avoid.

I started taking Ferrous Sulfate, but had to stop a few days ago because of the cramps and diarhea.  Instead, I am taking 10 grams of vitamin C, along with calcium and magnesium each day, all to help absorb and metabolize iron into blood cells.

As a source of iron which is more easily absorbed, I have been eating raw calves liver and raw lean beef.  Risky, I suppose, but I have not much choice.  I will try to find some heart and sweetbreads.  I understand sweetbreads can be either pancreas or thymus, and for my purposes, pancreas would be better for the blood content.  We'll see about eating the sweetbreads raw, the heart will be no problem.  I should then have the courage of a cow, right?

I have also just received a new stock of herbs from NAP to protect and promote healing of my digestive tract.

I have also kicked out my alcoholic son, who has been the major stress-point in my life the past year and a half and more, and who feins sympathy but really does not understand this illness.  I would not be so sick if not for him, but then, he has been my responsibility, up to a point.

I have stopped the GI bleeding with cayenne and rest, but it is hard for me to believe the degree of bleeding evidenced by my daily stool checks has caused the degree of anemia I have in such a short time.  It's weird.  

This is my major question right now:  What is going on with my blood and what do I do about it beyond what I am?

Other than anemia, all my blood chemistry is normal.

By the way, I eat lots of veggies and fruit and black-eyed peas, and am eating soaked flax seeds as well.  I still have to give myself a small enema almost daily to relieve some of the discomfort.  I think the problem has to do with the fact that my abdomen has shrunk so much since starting the blood type and celiac diets.  It seems to me my colon, et. al., were swollen with edema or inflammation, and now that that has receded, my gut has to adjust to the new mechanics of pooping.    Trying to think positive.

Later, q.
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italybound
Monday, July 3, 2006, 3:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Age: 58
Q, sorry you've had such a setback. I do think you may have done something that will bring you a great deal of relief - removing your source of stress. I know it's hard to do tough love w/ kids, but when it's affecting your health, it's necessary.
Would you mind answering what KK asked about taking ghee on an empty stomach? Ghee is very good for gut healing from what I understand.
I'm sorry that I don't remember all of your health history, but have you been checked for Leaky Gut Syndrome? If not, here is a link to a test that can be done :
http://www.crohns.org.uk/Docs/.....eability%20test.html

If you haven't seen it, I started a thread re: LGS, Intrinsia and MS. We are gathering some good info on all of that.
Also, have you been checked for adrenal fatigue? Check this here:
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

Someone will come along shortly that can help you more on what to do with the blood issue. I know my GF has celiac. It took the drs 2 yrs to diagnose her and she wound up having to have an iron transfusion in the mean time.



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Elizabeth
Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Posts: 360
This is ridiculous, but after all this time I don't know how to post a new topic.  This is close enough to celiac to get started, but please, some moderator help me!  I did look around.  After much digestive trouble, which seemed to be low HCl, last year accompanied by candida (now gone!), a workup for chronic pancreatitis has been recommended.  Has anyone had this?  Results?  A quick check on the web suggested that one should ("to avoid death" the med school outline kindly noted) never consume alcohol again.
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resting
Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 1:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi q.,

thought you may be interested in http://www.drrons.com/organic-organ-delight.htm

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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italybound
Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 2:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from Elizabeth
This is ridiculous, but after all this time I don't know how to post a new topic. .


Elizabeth, go up to the Board Index on left side of page, on that page select The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library, in this instance since it's pertaining to a "disease".
Once there, look on the right side a tad bit down the page for a tab called New Thread. From here, you're good to go. If you need anymore help w/ this, just let us know.



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queueball
Saturday, July 8, 2006, 10:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I have been making ghee, "clarified butter", according to instructions from a cooking show.  Basically warm ordinary butter and skim off the clear oil on top.  I have been using this instead of oil on salads and such.  I did not know about using it on an empty stomach.  I will take it first thing in the morning, since I eat small meals all day.

Is this good ghee for the purpose?  How much do I take?  How long should I wait before eating?

I have a new doctor who is open-minded and knowledgeable.  I will be starting Ferrous Sulfate (iron) injections on monday.  After the first one, I will be self-injecting.

There is only so much I can do at this point due to fatigue, finances and the fact that I live an hour from nowhere.   I will check out the other suggestions later on, when I am more able.

I have found a local woman who, along with her husband and daughter had celiac disease for a number of years.  Both the daughter and husband committed suicide not long ago.  I left my phone number with a mutual friend.  I have not heard from her yet.

I also today heard of a local woman who was misdiagnosed for two years, then took another two years to recover.  Still her friends think she is not allowed to eat ANYTHING.

Later.
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italybound
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Q, when you say "warm" butter, how warm are you talking. I ask because you need to cook unsalted, preferably organic, butter until all the milk solids have gone to the bottom, the butter becomes clear and there will be "residue" on the top, which you can skim off and use for flavoring if you wish. Yummy gheee.............
Speaking of taking a long time to be diagnosed.......I met a lady in WF this week who is celiac and it took the drs 8 years to diagnose. Ridiculous this day and age.
Don't forget to look into fatigued adrenals. They can mess ya up pretty good.
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

There is a thread on ghee, one of many I fear. Latest one started by mua. it's called "How much ghee?". I would hook you right up, but something has happened to my computer and I can't see website addresses anymore. Sorry




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lola  -  Monday, July 10, 2006, 5:54pm
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Victoria
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 5:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here's the way I make ghee.

For just under a pint of Ghee, start with 1 pound unsalted (sweet) organic butter.
Melt it on medium-low heat in a heavy bottom pan;  I use a two quart copper bottom saucepan.
Reduce heat to low and let simmer.  I prefer to simmer my ghee, instead of cooking it at a rolling boil.  It gives me a bit more control at the end when it is so easy to burn.  My total time is less than a half hour, but I go by two signs as to when it is done:

#1.  The sound.  At first, the ghee will make loud noises as it simmers.  At first, it is a steady sound, like rain on the roof.  At some point, it will get very much quieter.  When the sound changes it is close to being done, and you need to stay close and check the bottom of the pan frequently. At this point, it needs to be monitored, in my opinion.
Once you get that "popcorn" smell, it is close to being done, and can quickly burn at that point.  I like to watch mine then, and tilt the pan every few seconds to check the bottom of the pan.  

#2.  The Appearance of the bottom of the pan.  At the beginning, the stuff that sinks to the bottom looks whitish and creamy.  This is while the sound is loud.  When the sound changes, watch closely because the stuff on the bottom will begin to darken.  You need to remove it from the heat when the bottom sediment looks golden brown and smells somewhat like popcorn.  If it turns really dark, or blackish, it stayed on the heat too long.   At the golden brown stage, the finished ghee will be a clear golden color and very delicious.  Once the solids turn dark brown, the ghee will darken also, and to my taste, it loses its subtle flavors.  You can still use it, but it loses it's delicate flavor.

I gently strain through an unbleached paper towel in a large strainer.  If made correctly, it will be clear golden in color.  I keep mine on the counter in a glass or ceramic bowl with a lid to keep it clean.  Protect from contamination from foods and liquid, and it will keep a long time.

I hope this helps.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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italybound
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 11:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
I make my ghee in the oven.  300 degree oven for 1 hour. When butter becomes clear, sediment on bottom is beginning to darken, I remove, strain and leave on counter, as does Victoria. I have actually found that I'm probably going to be cooking my ghee a little longish from now on, tho. See the thread "What do I do w/ this ghee". I overcooked it once and it was a light caramel color when cooled. I was afraid I'd ruined it, but NO, it was even better than reg ghee in my opinion. I noticed yesterday, that the more cooked version had a much better flavor, for me. As Brig said, sometimes "mistakes" are how great recipes are made!
Also, VERY nice be able to leave your ghee out and not to have to get it out of the fridge and let it soften to spread. How long is a "very long time" that you can leave your ghee on the counter Victoria? I should've dated mine when I made it last. I use it pretty frequently so probably don't have to worry about it going bad, but would rather be safe than sorry.    I need to find a nice pretty Tuscan bowl to put it in , just to be house-beautiful that is.  
It's funny looking back. I was SO afraid to make ghee....that I'd mess it up. I thought it'd be so hard to make. What a lot of worrying for nothing. For those of you that haven't tried your hand at it, give it a go. It's really easy as pie. Well, in fact, easier.  



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JK
Monday, July 10, 2006, 5:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Q,

There are enough similarities in what we are going through that you might find this site helpful.
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/index.html
The BEST site I have found regarding chronic fatigue and the role your adrenal glands play in this insidious illness. It sounds to me like you have suffered so much stress from so many sources that you are now dealing with hypoadrenia. There is a lot to read on this site and go to the archives first. Seems to me that adrenal exhaustion led to my leaky gut (and many other) problems... which then stresses the adrenals further.

Judi
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italybound
Monday, July 10, 2006, 5:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
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Age: 58
Judi, glad to see your input on adrenal fatigue. It is such a prevalent thing today and so underdiagnosed. I used to think getting blood tests for DHEA and cortisol was the way to diagnose, but not anymore. Symptoms are enough for me to go by. I have several symptoms and take supps for it. Hope between the info you posted and what I posted at Dr. Lam's site, that Q will find some relief. I'm going to give the site you posted a look-see myself.



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Victoria
Monday, July 10, 2006, 8:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier

Also, VERY nice be able to leave your ghee out and not to have to get it out of the fridge and let it soften to spread. How long is a "very long time" that you can leave your ghee on the counter Victoria? I should've dated mine when I made it last. I use it pretty frequently so probably don't have to worry about it going bad, but would rather be safe than sorry.  


I use ghee daily, so I always leave it on the counter.  Sometimes if we have a real heat wave and the ghee is always totally liquid, I'll put it in the fridge overnight.  Otherwise, I keep it out in a nice ceramic container or wide mouth glass jar and spoon out of it daily.  When it's empty, I make more.  It doesn't go bad unless it gets contaminated with water or food materials.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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queueball
Monday, July 10, 2006, 9:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I have a greenhouse, which does double duty as kitchen. I have drying racks for herbs, jerky, etc., overhead, where it gets intolerably hot this time of year. Things are more open below, which makes it bearable under the racks. How I made ghee was to soften butter by leaving it out until I could put it in a clear tub with a lid. I then put the tub up on the drying rack, and in no time I had clear oil on top and yellow stuff on the bottom. This was with store-bought "natural" butter, but not strictly organic. Not being sure about the stuff, today when I was out I bought a 13oz. jar for about $11, which I will use for the time being. I am dubious about unnecessarily cooking anything, for fear of destroying beneficial components, which is why I thought this low-temperature method would be a good way of making ghee.

Bad, Bad, Victoria - reminding me of the smell of popcorn, something I will never again eat.

My first self-diagnosis, three years ago, was Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Back then I spent a lot of time on the CFS web site, bought the book, which I read twice, subscribed to the supplements and all that. I am dubious that there actually is a "disease" one could call chronic fatigue syndrome, and that in all cases its just people with hemochromotosis, celiac disease, adrenal fatigue, and so on, and usually like me some combination of all these problems. who are mis- or undiagnosed by the "medical" profession. CFS is a backlash to the magic bullet culture.

I am also not real happy with the folks at the CFS site. They don't like to answer questions, and don't like to be contradicted. They especially don't like questions they can't answer, so they just don't. There are a number of contradictions in the CFS book that don't make sense, biochemically and physiologically.  And, above all, their treatments are non- or at least under-individualized.

I will check out adrenal fatigue, but my potassium level is ok. As I recall from years ago, potassium exhaustion would be a symptom of adrenal fatigue.

Last night I had a dream that I felt better. I have not had that dream before. I was also eating a couple of really good sandwiches on strange bread. Probably rice bread.

Today I had my first Iron shot, and I have a prescription for syringes and ferrous sulfate so I can inject myself from now on. The nurse, however, called the local CVS and they could not order the injectable iron. If anyone out there has an idea where I can get this prescription filled, please let me know.

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lola  -  Monday, July 10, 2006, 9:33pm
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queueball
Monday, July 10, 2006, 9:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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"Mineralcorticoids such as aldosterone modulate the delicate balance of minerals in the cell, especially sodium and potassium. It therefore regulates our blood pressure. Stress increases the release of aldosterone, causing sodium retention (leading to water retention and high blood pressure) and loss of potassium and magnesium. Magnesium is involved in over 300 enzymatic reactions in the body. When the body lacks magnesium, it will suffer from a variety of pathological conditions such as cardiac arrhythmias, uterine fibroids and osteoporosis."

This a quote from the adrenal fatigue page KN linked me to.  This is where it talks about potassium, but my potassium is on the high side of normal, as of about two weeks ago.  All my blood chemistry is normal, and last I checked, so was my liver panel, which I will have run again soon.  I also have very few of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue, and with regard to these three:

Lack of energy in the mornings and also in the afternoon between 3 to 5 pm.
Feel  better suddenly for a brief period after a meal.
Often feel tired  betweeen 9 - 10 pm, but resist going to bed.

My energy pattern is exactly the opposite!  I also never had a problem with obesity, and have lost about 30 lbs in the past three years, without even trying, and certainly without exercise.  During the same time, my blood pressure has dropped about 70 points.  So I doubt if we are talking about adrenal fatigue in my case.  Thank the great mystery!

It would seem to me that type O's thrive more under stress, if I read Dr. Adamo right, and that adrenal fatigue might be less prevalent for them.  Nes pa?
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italybound
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 1:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,162
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Age: 58
Quoted from queueball
Last night I had a dream that I felt better. I have not had that dream before. I was also eating a couple of really good sandwiches on strange bread. Probably rice bread.


Q, what a nice dream. Maybe a "prediction" of things to come.  

Sorry you didn't find more useful info on the link I posted. I do hope you will find some  injectable iron. Is there a Walgeen's near you or is it that you just can't get it at a drugstore? I would like to suggest that you call your dr and tell him/her of your dilemna so that you can get started asap.  Hope you will find some relief soon.  



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Victoria
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 2:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from queueball
How I made ghee was to soften butter by leaving it out until I could put it in a clear tub with a lid.  I then put the tub up on the drying rack, and in no time I had clear oil on top and yellow stuff on the bottom.  This was with store-bought "natural" butter, but not strictly organic.  Not being sure about the stuff, today when I was out I bought a 13oz. jar for about $11, which I will use for the time being.  I am dubious about unnecessarily cooking anything, for fear of destroying beneficial components, which is why I thought this low-temperature method would be a good way of making ghee.


Queueball,
I believe you are making clarified butter, which gives you the nice "butter oil", but not ghee.  Mikeo posted something explaining the difference, some time ago.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Don
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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I don't think the method described would remove all the water from the butter, which is part of the definition of ghee. I also worry that some of the "yellow stuff" on the bottom might be good fats that just don't separate at that temperature.

I recommend you try using an regular cooking methed to make ghee from butter.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Drea
Thursday, July 13, 2006, 10:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Warrior ~ Taster, NN, ENTJ
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Age: 51
Quoted from Victoria
Here's the way I make ghee.

For just under a pint of Ghee, start with 1 pound unsalted (sweet) organic butter.
Melt it on medium-low heat in a heavy bottom pan;  I use a two quart copper bottom saucepan.
Reduce heat to low and let simmer.  I prefer to simmer my ghee, instead of cooking it at a rolling boil.  It gives me a bit more control at the end when it is so easy to burn.  My total time is less than a half hour, but I go by two signs as to when it is done:

#1.  The sound.  At first, the ghee will make loud noises as it simmers.  At first, it is a steady sound, like rain on the roof.  At some point, it will get very much quieter.  When the sound changes it is close to being done, and you need to stay close and check the bottom of the pan frequently. At this point, it needs to be monitored, in my opinion.
Once you get that "popcorn" smell, it is close to being done, and can quickly burn at that point.  I like to watch mine then, and tilt the pan every few seconds to check the bottom of the pan.  

#2.  The Appearance of the bottom of the pan.  At the beginning, the stuff that sinks to the bottom looks whitish and creamy.  This is while the sound is loud.  When the sound changes, watch closely because the stuff on the bottom will begin to darken.  You need to remove it from the heat when the bottom sediment looks golden brown and smells somewhat like popcorn.  If it turns really dark, or blackish, it stayed on the heat too long.   At the golden brown stage, the finished ghee will be a clear golden color and very delicious.  Once the solids turn dark brown, the ghee will darken also, and to my taste, it loses its subtle flavors.  You can still use it, but it loses it's delicate flavor.

I gently strain through an unbleached paper towel in a large strainer.  If made correctly, it will be clear golden in color.  I keep mine on the counter in a glass or ceramic bowl with a lid to keep it clean.  Protect from contamination from foods and liquid, and it will keep a long time.

I hope this helps.  


Well, it certainly helped me.  
I've been making my ghee in the oven for years, but your method was even easier! The hardest part (and it wasn't hard at all) was straining it.


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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Hi q.,

I've just read this complete and intriguing thread.  There may also be a chemical reason why the male response has been small ... an over-active dopamine production seems to induce a quasi-security in a person ... it's like autism where a person develops a very high pain-threshold ... the downside a morbid self-interest.

anyway, can hardly believe much of the intricacies you have established ... looking at it ... the vast majority of things you try is like entering a smorgasbord of goodness - with little rational for thoroughness.  Here's what I mean: my system is based on seasons -
                     > colostrum >> spring >> summer >> autumn >> winter >
like you, I have a limited amount of funds and although I know each season supplies some extra-beneficial help ... I attempt to restrict such help only if it's the 'season' for it.  In such a way strength builds into strength ... and strength is not diluted with weakness.

Let's start with sprouting .... great for regeneration ... more mineral and protein access  -  however, this is proper to 'spring' ... other such foods: roe, eggs; mini-carrots; lettuces; grass-juices; all kinds of sprouts ... Dr D even has these in a for-each-type form.

If we go back to colostrum ... I treat this as an annual mini-birth ... it is a powerful immune stimulant  as well as growth promoter ... coupled with the poly-amines of freezing these make a good pair for growth (? for cancer) ... but  this is max 4 days long ..... very high colostrum intake.  [Most commercial colostrum is bovine/cow so does not have many needed factors for humans ... we also need lecithin, omega-6 fatty acids ............. evening primrose oil or borage oils. + zinc + copper + taurine.]

Now forward to summer:  The key nutrient of summer is chlorophyll ... every one of the foods with high chlorophyll for 0's also has such high non-constipating iron that it makes all these pale into the background .... chlorella has 12X the iron as beef liver (NAP's Harmonia is ideal) .... stinging nettle extract is so thick with chlorophyll, it is almost black and has loads of iron.  The chlorophyll-complex has two atoms of magnesium at its core.  The liver does some of its chemical magic replacing the atoms of magnesium with atoms of iron ... to make the 'heme' of 'hemoglobin' (the red of your red-blood-cells).  Nowhere is the importance of eating chlorophyll-rich foods even mentioned in the above posts ... so I have to assume this is not a summer-food preoccupation.

One way to look at the concept of seasonality is that it forms kind of a sin-curve ... where summer is the season of growth and excess AND winter is the season of rest, recuperation - minimal growth besides repair.  So summer gets an extra boost from the thyroid-adrenal glands.  When we eat fresh seaweed ... for its iodine (a summer-food), we help to make the thyroid function.  This is not a year-round proposition and it absolutely requires the 'winter-rest', imho.  Now newer supplement products supply tyramine (from tyrosine) that can boost the thyroid/adrenal output but must always be balanced with the winter-rest ... TS Wiley's 'Lights Out'

There really is much more to this perspective ...........

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius


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lola  -  Friday, July 14, 2006, 12:30pm
clarify and spelling
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Kyosha Nim
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John, quite the post!! So much to take in. Thanks for all that information. I'm going to try and incorporate some of that into my life, as I have very lazy adrenals right now. Thanks!!

Oh , also, you say " There may also be a chemical reason why the male response has been small ... an over-active dopamine production seems to induce a quasi-security in a person ... it's like autism where a person develops a very high pain-threshold ... the downside a morbid self-interest."

I have to totally believe this to be true in a lot of men. My DH for one is very much like this. Sometimes it hurts.     This morning I was almost, like a fraction of an inch away, in a car accident. When I told him about it, it was like, "oh, okay and on with the business at hand". He didn't say that, but that was the attitude. Sad and hurtful. Especially when I'm always there for him in whatever he needs. Maybe I shouldn't be.




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Hi Pat,

Perhaps there is quite another way to understand your DH - he is so-married that you and he are 'one' ... the same person.  By shugging off the could-have-beens, he gets rid of much anxiety because it is quite enough dealing with those-things-that-are-actual than "maybe's". He doesn't see you two as seperate people ... this may be frustrating at times , but very balancing for a marriage, imho.

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Perhaps there is quite another way to understand your DH - he is so-married that you and he are 'one' ... the same person. By shugging off the could-have-beens, he gets rid of much anxiety because it is quite enough dealing with those-things-that-are-actual than "maybe's". He doesn't see you two as seperate people ... this may be frustrating at times , but very balancing for a marriage, imho.John


John, you could be perfectly correct about this. It, however, doesn't make me feel any better about how he treats me sometimes. I am always and forever, there for him, sympathetic for him, taking care of him, blah, blah, blah. I know this is something I need to find a way to deal w/ if I want to stay w/ him. Just figuring it out. The only thing that has worked so far, is to treat him the same way he treats me. That's a strain for me because I am caring and affectionate by nature, BUT it IS the only thing that gets across the "barrier". Thanks for the "theory". Enough hi-jacking of this thread.    Sorry Q.  



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Saturday, July 15, 2006, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Overanalytical
I'm overanalytical

I can't remember just now how the rest of it goes, but that's the beginning to a song I made up, sung to the tune of "Singin' in the Rain".

I think it is appropriate at this point for all concerned.

I tend to be obsessive and "overanalytical", which I think sometimes is counterproductive and may even lead to stress which will make my condition worse.  And yourses as well (that is the plural of yours, by the way).

John, some of what you say sounds a bit micro-bioticy, although seeking out human colustrum at its source is a tempting prospect, but entirely wishful thinking at this point.  Question:  do you have celiac disease, or do you know any males who do?  

Right now my blood count is dangerously low, which accounts possibly for the fact that when sitting up, as now, I am a bit loopy.  It appears that my Celiac condition has interfered strongly with my ability to absorb iron in any form, animal, vegetable or mineral, through my gut.  I have also been bleeding again on and off in recent days.  I have stopped the Vitamin C, magnesium and calcium supplements to see if this helps stop the bleeding.  These were cheap, drug store products, so they might have been causing a problem.

Got an adjustment yesterday, however, and immediately felt significantly better.

I have an organic garden, which at the moment is overflowing with collards and lamb's quarters (wild spinach).  I will make an effort to eat more of these greens, but as I said, I have my doubts that I am absorbing the iron.  I am also eating raw lean beef now, which I do enjoy in a salad.  I was doing raw liver for a while, but I couldn't keep that up.  Even with all that, my hemoglobin did not rise significantly during a period when I was not bleeding.  For part of that period, I was also taking chemical iron, ferrous fumerate, but the complications from that became more than I could take.

I have a culture of fresh water algae, hair algae, which I have used in the past for producing some of the best tasting water ever.  I know this is not chlorella, which is a marine algae, but at some point I plan on trying it as a supplement, if the information on it looks promising.

As for the DH (designated hitter?), we men are all pigs.  I know, for I have tried so hard not to be one, but it seems to be hard-wired.  I don't know what you women see in us, or why you keep us around.  The real reason for male chauvinism and male dominance is that in our hearts, we know women are superior, and that if you ever get the upper hand, we're history.  And rightly so, considering the recent (6000 year or so) history of the species, during which time men have been in charge.

When I first came across the idea of injectible iron, the reference was to raw liver extract, which I was unable to find anywhere.  This is why I have gone along with my new doctor's prescription for ferrous sulfate injections.  However, John, your mention of stinging-nettle extract, and the fact that it is, apparently, a blackish liquid, is giving me ideas.  When I get my syringes, and if I can find the extract, I may try a bit under the skin and see if there is a reaction.  If all goes well, maybe I will use it in place of or in addition to the prescription.

The approach I am trying to take is to do what I can, not get too attached to life, and have faith that my body knows what it is doing.

Love to all, q.
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nice analogy!!!!  lol


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Quoted from queueball
As for the DH (designated hitter?), we men are all pigs.  I know, for I have tried so hard not to be one, but it seems to be hard-wired.  I don't know what you women see in us, or why you keep us around.  The real reason for male chauvinism and male dominance is that in our hearts, we know women are superior, and that if you ever get the upper hand, we're history.  


oh, Q, not ALL men are pigs.    I know you all get aggravated w/ us women too. Goes both ways....we all know this, sometimes we just choose to ignore it.  
No, no, we will never, ever, never get rid of you, after all who would................... for us.  You fill in the blank.     Lots of options.  



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Quoted from KN:

"Someone will come along shortly that can help you more on what to do with the blood issue. I know my GF has celiac. It took the drs 2 yrs to diagnose her and she wound up having to have an iron transfusion in the mean time."

Who is that someone and where are they?  Or are you just being psychic?

My major blood issue is that I am bleeding from somewhere in my gut, and I don't seem to be able to control it anymore with cayenne.  Patience is fine, but I may literally bleed to death in the meantime.  The doc does not think it is gastric ulcers, because that is quick and copius bleeding, and mine is a slow leak.  I have also done a water retention enema, after cleaning myself out, and tested the expletive for occult blood, and there was none, even though I find blood in "normal" samples before and after the enema.  This tells me I am not bleeding from anywhere in my colon (also there has never been visible blood).  This leaves the small inestine, and is another piece of evidence for celiac disease.

So, can anyone tell me how celiac disease causes bleeding?  Maybe then I could come up with a way to stop it.

My count was last at 7.7, and I have had a lot of positives since then for occult blood in my stool, so I expect I am significantly lower now, and I feel it.  This means I have about half the blood in me that I should have.  If it gets much lower I will not be able to function at all.  Having kicked out my son, I now am alone in the middle of the woods and only have the energy to do eat and poop, when so much is needed around here just for upkeep.

Question: Again, how do I stop the bleeding?

Question: What do you mean by "iron transfusion"?

In the meantime, I am going to cut back on my water intake.  I know, I am supposed to drink so much water a day, yada, yada, and I have been drinking a half gallon every morning before I get out of bed.  I am now going to stop doing that and hopefully allow my body to get dehydrated, which is the only way I know of thickening the blood.  Thicken the blood, slow down or stop the bleeding.  I will also be drinking my green/ginger tea chronically.  The diuretic property of the green tea should help me dehydrate, and the ginger . . . you know.

And, by the way, it is exactly that attitude that enables us to be pigs, collectively that is.  Sweet as it is, that is the way it is, until we change it.

Again, I need to hear from or about Male celiacers.

Later, q.


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h
Hi q. (again),

I think you have made some critical flaws in your analysis .... you perceive that the celiac disease may have 'caused' the bleeding.  And a proven ... stop-ingesting-gluten will cease the chronic (now acute) bleeding.  From what I understand is that vitamin C stops bleeding by inducing collagen synthesis - sealing lesions (cuts); one can also bleed without an overt cut... as in my case ... right through a heart valve that was so porous it was close to being a sieve.  There are herbs (cumin may be one, but I'm not sure) that stops this type of bleeding.

It may be more important for you to find out what blood-clotting factors you may be missing.

If one of them is vitamin K related and you are eating lots of greens, then the bile salt taurocholate may be important (Jarrow -Bile Factors).

John


The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

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Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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A couple of ideas, q,
1/2 gallon of water is a LOT to drink at once, and is just going to flush right through your kidneys and out.  I believe our bodies can only absorb about 4 oz. every 20 minutes or so.  I may have my figures wrong, but the basic principle is that small amounts sipped continuously throughout the day is what works to keep the cells hydrated.  Large amounts don't absorb and just make the kidneys work harder.

Regarding the vit. C.  Ascorbic acid is very acidic and is also harsh on the kidneys...irritating.  It's better to get your vit. C from acerola and rose hips.

Another thing occurred to me, and I'm sorry if it's been discussed before.  I haven't read back through all your posts.  As a type O, your blood is already thin.  Are you ingesting anything that could be further thinning your blood?



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JK
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I have read that a lot of vitamin C -- you were taking 10g a day? -- is very harsh on your digestive tract too and is not recommended for anyone with inflammation of the digestive tract. If you suspect you are celiac and bleeding the vit C could be making it worse. Smaller amounts, say up to 3grams, taken throughout the day are better.

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lola  -  Monday, July 17, 2006, 3:23pm
Yes, 1 gal H2O is too much all at once! Victoria is quite right.
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Q, my gf lives in St. Louis Mo.  True story. If I haven't mentioned, I met a gal at WF who has celiac, took the drs' 8 years to diagnose her.
I suppose "iron transfusion" means just what it sounds like, but couldn't be sure. If you'd like me to find out, I certainly will.
I agree w/ Victoria, that 1/2 gal of water at a time is a lot. That's 64 oz and prob close to what you should drink all day. Spreading it out as she suggested would be good. You also need to find the way to get that water into your cells, not just your body.



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Don
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By the way, I disagree with you regarding the use of ascorbate to bowel tolerance for flu symptoms. Evidence suggests that this purgative effect (in addition to the infectious process itself) renders the intestinal lining hyperpermeable to gut bacteria. There is also the phenomena (at least in certain Eastern Europeans) of 'rebound scurvy', where large amounts of ascorbate generate increased capillary fragility. Pauling, as you may know, received his Nobel Prize for determining the 'pleated sheet structure' of certain proteins (the result of his work in X-ray chrystallography) not for his later advocacy of high dose ascorbate, which in recent work seems to incite chromosomal abnormalities, at least in cell culture. As my father used to say, 'Sometimes too much good is no good.'


Also, green tea can reduce your iron absorbtion, so I would limit your consumption to 1-3 cups a day away from meals.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Don
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You might want to read the information here: Iron


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very informative, thanks Don!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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queueball
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Since I booted my son, I have had to attend to things myself, which has kept me away from this forum.

I also feel that this thread has come unravelled, so I am starting a new one more or less from scratch.

See you elsewhere.
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Q, how are you doing these days?



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