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tier 1 & 2  This thread currently has 14,250 views. Print Print Thread
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audre2v
Monday, June 20, 2005, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi all,

I've been pouring over LR4YT and I'm confused about Tier 1 & tier 2 foods. If I am basically healthy can I pick benefial foods from Tier 1, Tier 2, and General nutritional sulplementation?

Also, I'm guessing there is a typo in the veggies section on servings.  Should that be 2-3 daily instead of weekly?

Thanks, Audrey
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apositive
Monday, June 20, 2005, 1:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
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If you are basically, the usual recommendation is to follow tier 1 beneficials and avoids and to consider the tier 2 foods as neutral.

The veggie servings do sound like a typo!


INTJ
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kent
Monday, June 20, 2005, 10:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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You may want to check the errata for LR4YT: http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?cat=1075204426#1075208133 .

This contains a clarification of the tier system (also a note on the frequency issue).
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Lola
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 1:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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page 118 in LR4YT there is a brief explanation of the two tier system.  
Tier One:  maximize health:
Tier Two: overcome disease:
tiers don't apply to non-secretors.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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sue_ab
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hi Audrey,

The 2-3 servings of veg weekly should read daily.

I am also basically healthy and eat as many beneficials from tier 1 and tier 2, then as
Yaman said recently if you are still hungry fill up on the general nutritional supplementation section.

That's a great link Kent put up....make sure you check it out Audrey.

Hi Kent and welcome to the forums.

Sue.


BTD'ing for life since 2000
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audre2v
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 12:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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OK, I went to the link from above, and it says "If you are doing the non-secretor version of your ABO plan, you are automatically doing the tier two values, so relax".  I'm guessing the ABO plan is referring to my blood type diet.  Is that right?

Does this also mean, I should be using the Tier 2 list and not combining Tier 1 & 2?

Then there's a note.  "If you are a nonsecretor and MM, use the nonsecretor values in preference to the MM values."  What's MM?

Thanks for answering all my questions!  Audrey
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Lola
Tuesday, June 21, 2005, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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audrey,
hope this answers your question:
http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/subtype5.htm


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I just read LR4YT and am confused by the two tiers.

If I am following a weight loss regimen, can I only eat things that are listed on the Two Tier section?  For instance:  eggs aren't listed on either Type I or Type I.  They are listed separately.  How does this figure into everything?  

The book has me completely confused.

Thanks for any guidance.  


INFJ
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kent
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
I just read LR4YT and am confused by the two tiers.
 


The description in the book confuses many people.

This is from the errata:

Tier One is the basis of the diet for everyone.

If you simply wish to maintain and enhance your current level of health, use only Tier One as your basis of beneficials and avoids, and simply add the tier two foods to your neutral category. You'll be doing the 'most important' beneficials and avoids. You can consider this version the 'Blood Type Diet Lite' as it is easy to follow and only requires that you know your ABO type.

You may want to visit this page for additional comments:

http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?answer=1075124989

Also the page contains links to corrections and answers to questions about
the LRFYT book.
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
So, if you are following Tier II, then you can have the ones on Tier One and Tier Two, as well?  But if you are following Tier I, you treat everything on Tier Two as a neutral?  

Sorry, I'm still confused.

I know I'm being a pain, but I'm trying to incorporate this diet into my life, and would like to understand it better.

Regarding wheat and corn:  they are marked as neutral, yet Dr. D recommends not having ANY of them if you are trying to overcome chronic disease, lose weight, etc...

Does this include sprouted wheat?  I bought the Ezekiel brand he recommended, but then in LR4YT, it states that you should avoid ALL wheat.  Does this include the sprouted Ezekiel?

I truly appreciate everyone's guidance as I learn this new way of living.  


INFJ
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Connect
Monday, September 5, 2005, 11:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
One other thing Kent:  (I just read the website page

The foods on Tier Two are the MOST beneficial?  Is that the way to look at it?
Eating more of those helps speed recovery?  It really is confusing.....

I'm off to work, but will check back when I get home!  Looking forward to learning more...


INFJ
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kent
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
So, if you are following Tier II, then you can have the ones on Tier One and Tier Two, as well?  But if you are following Tier I, you treat everything on Tier Two as a neutral?  


Yes, that's it!

For type A, my understanding is that ezekial bread is fine (as long as
all the wheat is sprouted).

However, a few type A's seem to still report problems with sprouted wheat products
(perhaps from allergies or celiac disease).
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Hmmm...

It would seem to be the other way around.  So, if you are just following the diet loosely:  you shouldn't have the things listed as "Beneficial" on Tier Two?  The items listed as "Beneficial" (such as green beans) on Tier Two only turn into "neutral"???

That seems backwards to me for some reason....

Be back later!!


INFJ
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kent
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 12:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
One other thing Kent:  (I just read the website page
The foods on Tier Two are the MOST beneficial?  Is that the way to look at it?
Eating more of those helps speed recovery?


I consider tier one to have the strongest beneficials and the strongest avoids.

The tier one beneficials and avoids are always the most important to observe.

Observing tier one will be enough for many people to maintain their health.

However, some people already have impaired health and need healing.

These people may have to follow a more strict diet.

So the BTD is refined to exclude the tier two avoids. The most important beneficials
are still in tier one. However, for maximum healing minimize neutrals and use
tier two beneficials instead of the neutrals (do not reduce the quantity of tier one beneficials).

Hope this helps, others may have insights as well.
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Lola
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 3:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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follow the portion and frequency guidelines as outlined in Live Right.  Also,
Peter recommends favoring Tier Two foods for weight loss.

Tier One: maximize health: This level, along with neutral foods for general nutritional supplmentation will suffice for most healthy individuals.

Tier Two: overcome disease: These adaptations are designed for those who are suffering from a chronic disease, or wish to follow the diet at a higher compliance level.


The exercise guidelines per specific blood groups assist with weight loss,
maintaining emotional health, and lowering/stabilizing cortisol levels.
...................................
tier system
EVERYONE should eat according to the Tier ONE food lists, and everyone should choose Beneficials over Neutrals as often as possible. If you desire only moderate compliance, that's as far as you need to go--and you can pretend that all of the foods in the Tier TWO list have the value "Neutral." If, on the other hand, you desire stricter (Tier TWO level) compliance, then you should eat according to BOTH lists COMBINED--not just the list labeled "Tier Two." So if you have been ignoring the distinction between the tiers and treating them as one big list, then you're already aiming for Tier TWO compliance! The way I personally use the Tier system is this: I strive to avoid all foods marked AVOID on either list (Tier TWO compliance), but if I know that circumstances are going to require me to eat an AVOID food, I try to make it one of the ones on the "Tier Two" list because I figure that these are the lesser evils.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 7:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I think I get it now:  Let's see:

If you are following Tier One:

The Beneficials on Tier Two are still Beneficials, but the ones marked "Avoid" for Tier Two are actually neutrals if you are following the Tier One plan.

If you are following Tier Two:

Then those that are marked "Avoid" (which would be neutrals for those following Tier One) are still AVOIDS.

Basically, the difference in the two tiers isn't in the "Beneficials" it's that some foods are neutrals if you are just trying to maintain, but the are Avoids if you are trying to heal.

Am I getting close???

Thank you!


INFJ
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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 2:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Someone put it this way, once, that I found very helpful:

Foods going from best to worst would be:

Tier 1 beneficials (Best!)
Tier 2 beneficials
neutrals
Tier 2 avoids
Tier 1 avoids (Worst!)


INTJ
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 3:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
(I think I dreamt about this in my sleep last night!)

One last question and I think I get it...

So, if you are following Tier one:  ALL of the foods on Tier TWO become "neutral"???

Even AVOIDS?  Everything on Tier Two becomes Neutral?


INFJ
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Victoria
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 4:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I hope I don't further confuse the idea, but here's how I look at it.

If a food is listed as avoid, whether it is tier 1 or tier 2, it is still actuallyan avoid, in truth.
 
However, if you don't want to be so strict with yourself for whatever reason, and you want to allow yourself more leeway than someone who wants to be compliant all the time......Then look at tier 1 as the best beneficials and the worst avoids.  If you want to just be "somewhat compliant".  

If you are going to eat avoids, the ones in tier 2 won't do you as much damage as the ones in tier 1.

Those of us who have had serious illnesses or need serious weight management, will just follow the guidelines in both tiers.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Connect14, it is not you.  It is very confusing.  This is why I never recommend LR4YT as the first/main BTD book for someone's BTD arsenal*.  It is a great book in many ways, and one that I highly recommend as being an essential part of one's BTD library/collection, but the tier thing is really confusing (I'm still confused about it and I've been on the BTD since before LR4YT was even a gleam in Dr. D.'s eye!), and also there are a few errors in LR4YT about portion recommendations which really change the liveability of the diet if you don't know that they are errors (fruit portions should be per DAY not per WEEK, as the book says...these errors are cleared up on this site, but not everyone who gets the books also sees this site).  ANYWAY, LR4YT is a great book with all kinds of groundbreaking info. (on secretor status and diet in particular), but the tier thing is...not my fave thing ever, let's put it that way.

Therefore, this is what I recommend to people who are in "tiers" over the whole concept of the tiers:  Ignore the tiers and treat beneficials as beneficials, neutrals as neutrals, and avoids as avoids, no matter what "tier" they are in.  This is how, it turns out, non-secretors like me are supposed to treat the whole thing anyway.  So, if you are a nonnie, voila, dat's the way to go anyway.  I think secretors can't go wrong by doing that, too.

My advice (and this is just my advice) is to ignore the tiers and go by the food's rating on Typebase4, when in doubt, as that is the updated, gold standard.  You can certainly go by the rating in the book, LR4YT, if you like, but ignore the "tier system".   Look at the tiers as a system that overlays the main rating system of beneficials, neutrals and avoids but is not a part of it.  One can choose to use the tier system in addition to the main system, but you don't HAVE to use them at all, which is lucky for those of us who cannot make heads or tails out of it in the first place *lol*!!!

Pretend you are a nonnie and ignore the tiers!  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


* The first book should be ER4YT or the encyclopedia...preferrably good old ER4YT.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 5:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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p.s.  Hello!  In case we haven't confused you enough yet, let me just add:

You may wish to look at the following link to a "sticky" (permanent) thread in this forum, which contains more info. on the tier system:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=lr4yt,m=1119273365


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 6:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
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Quoted from connect14
One last question and I think I get it...

So, if you are following Tier one:  ALL of the foods on Tier TWO become "neutral"???

Even AVOIDS?  Everything on Tier Two becomes Neutral?


Yep!  I think you've got it!


INTJ
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
You guys are wonderful.  Thanks for guiding me through this.  I look forward to sharing my experiences with you.  I'm just beginning...

Oh, one last question (Ha!):  Are the beneficials on Tier Two always Beneficials?  Or do they turn into "neutrals" for Tier One people, as well?


INFJ
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apositive
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 8:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~ teacher ~ probably nonnie
Ee Dan
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Quoted from connect14
Oh, one last question (Ha!):  Are the beneficials on Tier Two always Beneficials?  Or do they turn into "neutrals" for Tier One people, as well?

They are beneficial.  If I understand correctly, they just are not quite as beneficial as the Tier One beneficials.


INTJ
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Henriette Bsec
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 8:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamied nomad chameleon receptor worldview
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from apositive

They are beneficial.  If I understand correctly, they just are not quite as beneficial as the Tier One beneficials.


Yep I agree !
I still like the 1,2,3,4,5 version as you wrote about earlier ... I think it is easier to understand.



ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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Connect
Tuesday, September 6, 2005, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Hee...I'm nothing if not persistent!

Thank you guys for helping out.  It's a bit confusing for us beginners!  It seems easy for you sages that have been practicing for a long time, but this is new knowledge to me.  One day, I'll be wise and answering some other newbies 5,000 questions!


INFJ
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chris
Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 10:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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how do you find out your subtypes?
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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The column on the right in all the tables of LR4YT contains the values for non-secretors.

The fruit servings should also read per day.


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Lola
Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 2:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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chris,
subtype?
you mean secretor status?

look for the kits here on line, at the NAP store....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Don
Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 2:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from chris
how do you find out your subtypes?


You can get a full serotyping done from the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine.
You can contact them at 480/970-0000.  
Testing includes:
ABO type
A1 or A2 subtype
Rh +/-
Lewis type
MN type



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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RhodaMaria
Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 10:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Let me try to explain the tiers 1 and 2 system.
Searched for some notes Heidi wrote some time ago.

Tier One is the basis of the diet for everyone.
If you simply wish to maintain and enhance your current level of health, use Tier 1 as your staple foods, and choose freely from Tier Two and the Neutral Tier for added variety.
For you, the 'AVOID'foods listed in Tier TWO can be considered 'NEUTRAL'

This is the key of the diet!!! This is what is troubling you guys (and gals!)

Tier TWO values should be used as written if you are seeking to resolve an illness, heal from injury, lose weight, bear up under added stress, or to alleviate chronic fatigque of other health issues -- or if you are following the diet according to your status as one of the variants nonsecretors, MM or A2. Minimize your use of Neutral foods. This the TURBO version of the diet, designed to speed healing and provide added protection against disease.

Example: you are a secretor type O, with normal health and you read in Tier TWO, listed under the secretor-section that Potatoes are to avoided.
But as you are a secretor, you can consider Potatoes as NEUTRAL.

Other example: Beer!!!
Tier TWO: Secretor section: Beer: AVOID. This means for you as a O secretor, beer turns out to be NEUTRAL!!! Hurray!

for my friend Isa Type AB Nonsecretor:
Choose your staple foods mainly from Tier TWO non-secretors.
And minimize your use of the Neutral Foods.... sorry sweety!!!  

The notes MM and A2 are specifically mentioned in the sections.

Anyway my 2 cents in this discussion.
Above text is from Heidi noted down under Errata and clarifications back then.

Hope this has cleared a the sky a bit!!

Cocky
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 4:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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woooo-hooooo schnurrrgl

I just saw: yippers...how glad I am now because I'd understood it better (encore


:if you're doing the non-secretor version of y.ABO-plan...yeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhaaaaa
relax... yup...yup...yup : you're automatically doing tier 2 = that means I am *on-line*
with 1. A2 B nonnie  and tier 2 and this automatically. It means I must have a look onto the super-mini-little-scripts (A2B avoid or ok or neutral or-or-or) and then I add the normal AB-nonnie-foodlist = ok for that  = yup or yep


But that's it what I allways was asking : *why* what is here to be merged? Nonniehood is not an illness and I don't see beyond it... ooouuu this is soooo hard because my
compulsive side needs to understand......

    thank you lola, and Cocky and all the others too
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Lola
Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 9:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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cocky,
that was very clear for all to understand, ty!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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aguasch
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 7:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Cocky and Lola,

I think I got the idea on the tiers and then I read something else that brings up questions.

“Tier 1” = The basic diet using all the foods listed for your “ABO type / secretor status” as “Beneficial/Neutral” and avoiding everything else.

My basic understanding of “Tier 2” was that if you needed to deal with some disease or lose weight, the foods listed in Tier 2 would be the most helpful in achieving weight loss or regaining balance.  This was especially true with those food listed as “Beneficial”.  All other food would be considered “Neutral” (of course you exclude avoids)

The statement has been made that if you are a “Non-Secretor”, you are automatically following “Tier 2”, WHY?  There are foods listed under the Tier 1 and Neutral sections that are Beneficial/Neutral for non-secretors.

Given myself as an “AB Non-secretor” wanting to follow the “Tier 2” diet for improved health and some weight loss (no specific diseases), do I only use the “Tier 2” Beneficial/Neutral foods?   Then when I reach my desired weight range, can I then add “Tier 1” and the other appropriate foods listed in the “Neutral” section?

Thanks,
Albert    
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Lola
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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just follow beneficials and neutrals as stated........without the tier system.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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aguasch
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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So for the Nonee it is that simple?  

How about if you are a secretor my wife is also AB, but she is a secretor.  She is at her ideal weight and has no medical problems.  So should she do the same, following the Beneficial/Neutrals?

Really appreciate your assistance,
Albert  
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mikeo
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tier 1 - is more for maximizing health...the beneficial foods and refraining from avoids in this tier along with neutral foods for general nutritional supplementation will suffice for most healthy individuals

Tier 2 - the beneficial foods and the refraining from avoids on this tier is designed for those people who are suffering fron a chronic desease or wish to follow the diet at a higher compliance level...think of the beneficials on tier 2 as super beneficials

any neutrals on tier 1 or 2 are not beneficial..


RHN MIfHI
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aguasch
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 8:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Lola answered my question with respects to non-secretors.

However, when it is said that “for higher compliance level” to the diet use Tier 2.  Does this mean that you exclude food listed in Tier 1?
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mikeo
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from aguasch
Lola answered my question with respects to non-secretors.

However, when it is said that “for higher compliance level” to the diet use Tier 2.  Does this mean that you exclude food listed in Tier 1?


you do not exclude tier one beneficials from the diet. Think of tier one benes as  medicinal food and tier two benes as super medicinal food




RHN MIfHI
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ISA-MANUELA
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 8:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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oups... Albert, you and your spouse are both AB; one is secretor-the other a nonnie
wow- a real special couple congrats....don't you feel sometimes that you just look up into your own mirror

are you also an A2B nonnie? thanks for your reply
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aguasch
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 9:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Isa-Manuela,

Thank you, yes we are a special couple.  We met in high school and got married after we finished.  We have been married for 31 years and still very much in love; true soul mates.

We do not know if we are A2Bs, we just got the results of the secretor testing this last week.  How do you get tested to determine A or A2?  How important is it in the overall scheme?

Albert
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JK
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What are the main contributors to exhaustion after eating? I am not talking about a Thanksgiving dinner here, but every day.
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Lola
Saturday, October 1, 2005, 10:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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perhaps you would be a good candidate for separation diet.

not eating starches with protein.....
veggies and fats are neutral.....meaning you can eat them with either one......
legumes are tricky, cause they re both at the same time....besides, they re a bit difficult to digest.......(for those with such issues)

and fruit should be eaten separately......away from meals....and one at a time....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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JK
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 12:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Lola. I will do some research into food combining.

Maybe I would benefit from some starch in the morning, or fruit to provide some energy?? I have been going by the principle that Os should have protein to provide long lasting energy for their day, but it isn't working that way for me, although it used to. My digestion is not in tip top shape to say the least so maybe eating something that yields energy quickly would be a good way to start the day...

Obviously I need to switch meals around and experiment. I think another factor is maybe the size of the meal... I tend to have gigantic salads next to a piece of fish for example, thinking a salad is mostly water... Or maybe it has nothing to do with what I am eating and is related to my circadian rythym and lack of restive sleep at night??

Too many confounding variables to tease out cause and effect. Sometimes I just wannna give up, and then I remember what it was like when I used to be "healthy" (even with asthma, allergies, bronchitis for months on end, catching every cold; at least I was alive! I feel like a zombie these days). I was in such great shape during my 20s and early 30s, climbing mountains every weekend, biking or skating every day and attending graduate school and working in the lab. I was able to do it all. And it wasn't that long ago, I am 38 now.
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Lola
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try eating tier 2 beneficials for a week or two.......
see how you feel .........


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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cranberrycat
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 2:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JK
What are the main contributors to exhaustion after eating? I am not talking about a Thanksgiving dinner here, but every day.



How long after a meal do you feel exhausted?  

  Try alternating the amount of carb foods that you used, and try increasing the fat (healthy fats).  Use foods that are high in fiber--it will take longer to digest, hence you will not get as tired because the fiber and the fat work together to slow down digestion.  The carbs are converted to glucose much slower, and the sugars are dumped into your bloodstream much slower; you won't feel like you are hypoglycemic because it is all more steady.  
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JK
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 5:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The exhaustion usually hits me 1-2 hrs after eating. I think Laura identified the problem correctly since I know I am hypoglycemic, I just thought I solved that problem ages ago, and therefore didn't think of it as a cause. Duh. I have changed my diet the past 2 mos to an elimination diet, hopefully eliminating allergenic foods. This leaves me with fewer choices. Seems this problem is more of a problem when I eat fish and salad for brunch... not much there in the way of carbs or fat! I didn't have this problem 2 mos ago when I was eating steak or buffalo for breakfast -- unfortunately I can't tolerate beef right now. I am getting rather tired of lamb and chicken! I will try switching my meals around so that I eat fish and salad in the evening, lamb or chicken in the morning. Perhaps adding a sweet potato or rice to the fish meal would fill in the corners better too.

Perhaps ground buffalo would be OK where steak is not... Anyone know if buffalo is easier to digest than beef? Why would it be?? The elim diet my doc gave me suggests only lamb, chicken, turkey and cold water fish for easy to digest meats. When I tried steak a couple weeks ago, I really wished I hadn't!

Lola, you are right , time to pare down to tier two beneficials only. I have a lot of healing to do. I am reading LR4YT now.
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 9:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hithere
perhaps you may try with some changements...do the carb-intake in the evening without
any protein, next have a look what it is that mimics the hyoglyc. and try to stay away from this and perhaps use L'Glutamine  in larger amounts to get over this point  
and then take an enzymatic help without any pepsin in for better digestion, you will see
it will work wonders in your case

tr.y.Isa
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 9:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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saluti Albert
have a look next time you'll go to visite your doc and do a test of the A-sub-groups
you might be A1 or 2 that means (written in LR4Yt) more or less intake of animal-proteins AB-nonnies don't do that good with grains too, I didn't remarked in
that way so far I took to much of grains in the morning and got now too much of kilos on but since 2 weeks I am  on reductions... and now much better-
and if you'd remarked in minuscules letters ther's a remark in the book mentioned about foodintakes for A2B's like red peppers = ok and so on... but just very little letters
under the normal textes,; I didn't got it at one,.... for example, that stevia is nothing for A2B's but is neutral for AB's...... you see !!

isa
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aguasch
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Isa,

Thanks for the information.  

It is interesting how green/red bell peppers are a no-no, but "pimientos" are neutral.  I wonder if this just refers to the red pimientos or any variety of pimientos?
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 6:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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re-bonjour Albert ,
and if you look how fine it is for us.....the A2B's = red peppers are neutral and sooooooooo yummicioulous   but therefore no greens very , no orange and no
yellow ones but the best= are the red-ones  
thatswhy it is important to know your sub-group..... but here I only speak for myselve,
because I allways need to be sure that I am asured to be sure and safe
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JK
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 6:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Isa,

What do you mean, "next have a look what it is that mimics the hyoglyc. and try to stay away from this "? Do you think something I am eating is mimicking hypoglycemic symptoms? That's a new thought, I do have lots of new food intolerances. Don told me to take more glutamine too so I am taking about 12g a day and waiting for a pound of powder to arrive! Plant based enzymes help a bit, but not with digesting beef. I have been looking for a good raw pancreatic ... and adrenal. Do the pancreatin supplements work well? And why no pepsin?  
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MargoH
Sunday, October 2, 2005, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Have a look at your oil intake.  Some oil on that salad would smooth out the meal considerably.

Any carbs will benefit from the addition of a good oil.

And the sea salt in your water is a good tip.

A pre dinner drink of bitters or lemon  hald an hour before your meal will prime your gall bladder to supply the bile for utilise the oils.
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cranberrycat
Monday, October 3, 2005, 2:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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JK, you mentioned problems with hypoglycemia 1-2 hours after eating, but you really are not talking about the types of carbs that you are eating.  You mentioned adding rice or sweet potatoes, but I don't think those carb sources will help much.  They may actually make it worse.  Try carbs with a lot more fiber in them.  
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ISA-MANUELA
Monday, October 3, 2005, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hellööö JK yup... one of *t h e* toughest mimikri's is caféine = a superbe trigger ..................!!!!
why no pepsin... because you have normally enough of acidity on you stomach... and pepsin trigges the build up from acidity....ouch.... thytswhy and yes a good pancreatic help might be the solution for you but please have a look, as you mentioned it, that
it is from plants and not a form of pork-pancreatic-enzymes like wobenzyme.... I don't
have had until now any  O' clients which were very happy with this- sorry;
and then have a look if there is any other trigger likewise a little of wheat or a similar
no-goody which is able to block your pancreas....
sorry dear I am now very direct... is there anything which makes or made you very unhappy??? Often is here the key too, in form of psychosomatic reaction= Pancreas is
standing for the sweetness of life....
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, October 3, 2005, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I tend to be hypoglycemic myself.  You should be able to make it 3 to 3 1/2 hours with a balanced meal.  Adding oil to your fish meal or even having a few nuts would help.  It's probably just not enough calories.  The sweet potatoes should be fine from a glycemic index point, white rice though is pretty tough on the blood sugar. Not being well rested on top of everything doesn't help.  Hope you get that worked out.  So far as water, I do drink hot teas with my meals, so get some fluid there.  Try to drink your water at room temp if you don't already, it will not effect digestion as much.  I believe Dr. D has said that food combining is more helpful for Type A, but lots of Os follow the principles.


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


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ion
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 7:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from lola
try eating tier 2 beneficials for a week or two.......
see how you feel .........

Lola Hi!!
where cam i find more about tier 1 and tier 2.
Is any infi around the site? or should I buy A book?


PEACE
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yaman
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 7:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Ion

You can find the two-tier system listing of foods in the Live Right 4 Your Type book.

cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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Alek
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 8:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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 Hi Ion, I got my LRFYT book in Kifissia, book shop. Some health shops have it as well. If you can not find it I can leave mine with you when I see you. Love Alek




MIFHI


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ion
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 1:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from btd_forums
 

 Hi Ion, I got my LRFYT book in Kifissia, book shop. Some health shops have it as well. If you can not find it I can leave mine with you when I see you. Love Alek


Ta. Alek
I could have a look and then I can buy it so I have it as well.
Week or so you coming up. yes?


PEACE
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ion
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 1:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from yaman
Hi Ion

You can find the two-tier system listing of foods in the Live Right 4 Your Type book.

cheers,
Yaman

Sao Yaman.
Are you recovering from yesterdays party?



PEACE
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mikeo
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JK
What are the main contributors to exhaustion after eating? I am not talking about a Thanksgiving dinner here, but every day.


any caffeine consumption in this equation?



RHN MIfHI
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JK
Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 11:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. Very little caffeine; I do have yerbe mate tea in the morning but just one cup.

And Cheryl is right here too; I am not eating enough carbs period. Hardly ever white rice, usually brown or wild. I drink my beverages at room temp.

Yes, Isa, there are several things that make me unhappy and have for years. I am learning to accept the things I can not change and am working to change the things I can. It will take time.

I am reading LR4YT and find I have been pretty close to the tier two eating recommmendations, but I need to up my carb intake. I think a big part of this is not being able to eat beef and buffalo for the past 2 months -- and I would usually have a sweet potato with it. I am on an minimal diet of known non-allergenic foods while  I heal my leaky gut. I will try again after getting my hands on a better enzyme mix but I thought the one I use is pretty good for plant based... Enzymedica Digest Gold. Maybe I just need to use more when eating beef? Sounds like Isa doesn't like the idea of raw pancreatics...

Oh, and marinade the beef or perhaps soups.
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Laura P
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 12:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I like omega-zyme by garden for life, I get it in powder form.  Do you really think the carbs are the problem?  That would surprise me as an O, I'm an A and I eat less carbs then you do



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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JK
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 4:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Laura,

I checked the omega-zyme and it had O avoids so it is not an option for me.

Carbs or calories. These post brunch exhaustion episodes are occurring after a salad and piece of fish, and to a lesser degree when I have chicken with the salad greens. I never thought fish filled me up regardless of how much I'd eat. Fish protein is not as satisfying as BEEF and BUFFALO. I miss my meats   And I rarely get hungry, so I go 5-6 hrs between meals sometimes - definitely need to snack more, but I am so limited in this elim diet.
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Laura P
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 12:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I would seriously think about adding buffalo back in at least Judi, your body is obviously telling you you need it



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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resting
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 2:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Judi,

Much of the exhaustion that you speak of when starting this thread can easily be attributed to candida.  You should realize that candida does some 'positive - bad' physical damage to our gut.  We digest nutrients through little hairs on the intestinal walls called: micro-villi or villi.  One thing that candida does is strip the intestinal-wall of villi.  The villi are a key player in the digestive cascade ... so without villi (no matter how good the nutrients are in the food) you will not digest ... and like Laura become emaciated.

As Caroline's post indicates there are too many of us with candida.  We can try attacking candida with herbs, Heallix etc .... and many of them provide incredible assistance.  I'm not one prone to give up easily, so was seeking a solution to this problem, knowing that ANY solution would take time ... not only ridding the body of candida but healing the gut (villi) again.

This 'solution' right-now is only a good theoretical one.  I use it because I think it has merits, but I also realize that this will take some time .... much of the work can be done in a few months and some of it may take a few years.

This solution is two-fold:
1) focus on creating a super (very strong) intestinal flora ... besides being the best anti-candida fighter ... your flora does a wide range of jobs.
2) use only unheated honey ... the one I personally use is Really Raw Honey at http://www.reallyrawhoney.com  Any heating at all shifts the chemical structure of the sugars and these will have to opposite effect.  [An equivalent is comb-honey.]  The reason why this 'strange' sugar was chosen, is that any fungus is deadly to bees.  Their protection then becomes ours by eating this honey.
The use of this honey is not for its sweetness 'kick' but I eat is with most foods ... ie, as a salad dressing; cooked cereals - after cooking ... goes well with ghee.  This honey maintains many digestive enzymes destroyed in the cooking process.
3) Most 'simple' sugars are digested in the mouth or very early in the  digestion process.  So it is very impotant to chew .... until-the-cows-come-home or until the bite is a liquid (whichever is last!)  Do not gulp food .... especially fruit juices.  Remember that most of your intact villi are in your mouth.
4) Do not eat under stress ... sit down to eat.  Do enjoy the eating moment!  No on-the-run eating allowed.
5) employ healing stategies from vitamins C and B complex .... to visualization .... to exercise ... to drinking plenty of water .... to sleeping .... to etc

We will succeed ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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JK
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Laura and John,

I realize it is no quick fix John. And I am doing everything you suggest except the honey. It certainly looks great but I am concerned that I'll feed the Candida regardless of the antifungal properties of raw honey.

Dairy Princess just posted this link in the Candida thread, which I think has superb information. http://yeastinfectionadvisor.com/contactus.html  I posted this link in the same thread, also a source of great info http://www.candida-society.org.uk/ Seems so many of us have a problem with Candida, it gets a mention in a lot of our threads.  

Laura, I agree and have decided to try ground buffalo again. I really am craving red meat. Lamb is great but seems I can only eat it in a curry because of the strong flavor.
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Laura P
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Are you eating New Zealand lamb?  NZ lamb is too gamey for me, Try to find some nice grassfed american lamb, it is alot milder, almost sweet tasting



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Paulppaul
Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 11:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I use to get the same way.  I thought I was a diabetic but then found out I wasn't.  I think it's due to dehydration.  Try drinking more water and get your electrolytes.
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JK
Thursday, October 6, 2005, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Yup, more water too! Thanks. I was trying to follow the rules of water 30 min before or 2 hrs after eating, but that didn't leave enough time in the day to drink as much as I need and want. So, I am taking Laura's suggestion and waiting a little over an hour before drinking now. Still not getting enough but it's better.

Hi Laura, I don't know the source of the lamb but I'll ask next time. I sometimes get sticker shock when looking at grassfed anything so this probablt isn't
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ion
Thursday, October 6, 2005, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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John McDonell O+ do you mean you can fight candida with honey?
To me is making more sense to protect your guts if you don't have candida already.
I have here a jar of real honey straight form my brothers bees house, there are still in it bits of the bees wax. Should i start my candida fighting with it?
Ion


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Laura P
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Kyosha Nim
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I have to say ever since John has said this I have been adding a bit a honey to my breakfest smoothie and it has calmed my tummy down a ton



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Thursday, October 6, 2005, 9:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi ion,

I think the honey may be extremely good at fighting any active fungus.  For fungal die-off this I do not know, but suspect that a strong flora (+ maybe lemon and salt in daily water) will help with this.  Particularily helpful should be SBO organisms at http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/flora.html

Laura's experience and mine seem very similar .... this honey also heals lesions ... so fixing a gut may take a little while, but I doubt if it will make things any worse.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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JK
Friday, October 7, 2005, 2:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Ok Ok OK!! I just bought some Really Raw Honey at my health food store! It looked too good to pass by seeing as it was RIGHT THERE!! No ordering and waiting ... (and it was just as inexpensive considering no shipping). If this is cheating, it is good cheating!  

I am glad to hear the reports that it settles your tummy too!

Thanks for convincing me/wearing my resistance down  
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Lola
Friday, October 7, 2005, 3:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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jk,
what brand is it?
and does the jar have a website?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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markyd
Friday, October 7, 2005, 3:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What about raw bee pollen? Local raw bee pollen is a lifesaver for stopping allergies before they get started. I've been using it for years. But, it's sweet! Will it feed candida?
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JK
Friday, October 7, 2005, 6:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Lola, it is Really Raw Honey. The one and same recommended by John. http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/ And now that I am visiting the site again, I see that I got 1 lb for $8 plus change, not the $11 listed on the site. Same label. The store must but in bulk and pass on some of the savings. MMMMmmmmm!!
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Paula 0+
Friday, October 7, 2005, 1:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Judi,
What part of the country are you in?  Have your heard about lettuces being
possibly contaminated with perchlorate?  Hate to bring this up if that isn't it,
but recently, we have been reading about it here in California.  Apparently, it
is in the ground water, and gets soaked up by the leaves of lettuce type plants,
so they have more of a conentration of it.  Perhaps the salad?  Can you eat other
green veggies instead?  Also, is the fish a safe one mercury wise?  Again, I may
be way off base here, but it is something I have read about in the last year or so.
This perchlorate is bad for one's thyroid, and can cause it to have hypo symptoms.
Same thing with the mercury.  Have you ever been tested for heavy metals?  
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JK
Friday, October 7, 2005, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Paulam,

I am in SoCal and I haven't heard about the perchlorate problem. Unbelievable. It simply isn't safe to eat anymore! I just sprouted some of my own greens so I guess when they are ready to transplant, I should grow them in containers instead of the ground?!

As for the mercury in fish, I assume there is some! But then again, my head is still full of mercury amalgam fillings    I have not been tested but I am sure I have more heavy metals in me than I want!

Thanks for the heads up about perchlorate, I'll have to do some research.
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Lola
Friday, October 7, 2005, 5:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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thanks judi for the RH link! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Paula 0+
Friday, October 7, 2005, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Judi,
I think one of the articles I read about this chemical problem said that if you
grow you own greens/lettuces to water them with purified water.  Sounds like a lot
of work unless one is really dedicated.  But I guess it would work.  Apparently our
water in Santa Clara county has the problem, and I think I remember Riverside
having more of a problem with this.
As for the mercury, I was tested in '99 and went through a detox with a naturopath,
until it got too expensive to continue.  But I do think that some of my problems
may have been from the mercury.  It was pretty high in my hair and the numbers
did come down over time.  I also had my fillings replaced.  But again, all this is
expensive, we could afford it then, but not now.  But while going through all of this
the doc had said that one improvement I might notice was less hypoglycemic type
reactions, and that has improved.  Also, my moods are more stable.  I also think
that mercury disrupts the normal probiotic balance, so once it is gone, the good bacteria can survive better.  
Of course the btd really helps to normalize things for me.  I am sure that wheat is
my worst enemy right now.  When I stay away from wheat, my weight is easier to
manage, and moods too.  But you are growing your own greens, that's great!  It's
what I would like to try next.  I am thinking about swiss chard.....
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JK
Saturday, October 8, 2005, 5:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Your welcome Lola!! Gotta say, it is the best honey I have ever tasted.

Hi Paulam,

I'll have to check for San Diego county re perchlorate. My husband is planning on making beds in the ground for the veggies. Headed to Home Depot today to get materials...

I am sure I am littered with all sorts of heavy metals and other toxic sludge!!! I have been taking Heallix now for a couple weeks and it should help with chelating metals (bought it for the Candida fight). My tongue is clear of thrush and stains on my teeth are disappearing. A few very deep blackhead pits I have had for years (I don't have a big complexion problem -- it has been improving since dropping wheat and dairy but never bad - except for occaisional breakouts when under even more than usual immune stress) now they are almost gone too. My spit test went from an octopus immediately dropping tendrils to bottom of glass to just one tiny tendril that took a few minutes to descend... I have to hope that similar good things are happening elsewhere in my body!
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slyparrot
Thursday, October 27, 2005, 12:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 377
Gender: Female
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So if someone does not know their $50.00 secretor status, which should they follow?  The secretor column or the non-secretor column?

Most of my friends make fun of me for being a wacky health nut but if the secretor status test wasn't so expensive a couple of them would have tried the BTD.


Type O+, Non-Secretor, Haplo U5a1a, Explorer, Super-Taster, Virgo, and ESTP/INTP
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Don
Thursday, October 27, 2005, 12:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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80% of the population are secretors so the odds are in a person's favor that they are a secretor so they might as well start with secretor food list

The exception would be if someone based on their health issues and specific food sensitivities suspected they were a non-secretor then they might want to start with the non-secretor list.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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gorillita
Monday, November 28, 2005, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am glad you cleared up the veggie thing.  I read the book, wrote down all the recommended portions and noticed that veggies was only 3-5 times per week.  I was very disappointed, but I cut back on them.  That just didn't seem right since the first book said 3-5 times per day, so I got the book from the library again.  Yep, it says 3-5 times a day.  I just spent a month eating less veggies .  So based on what I read here, that is a typo (and a serious one since it's in the book), and I have now upped my veggie intake again.
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mandi
Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 1:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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i need to get back to this original question.  I am an ab nonnie in good health no diseases, so am I to eat mainly from tier 2 since i'm a nonnie?  I always just thought bene were great and avoids were avoids no matter the tier.  I just always assumed tier two was for better health.  I just try to eat bene from either tier just to have a variety.  Am I confussed?  What should I be following as an ab nonnie?  Please help me figure out from which tier I should base my diet.  or does it really matter?  
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Lola
Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 3:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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tiers do not count for nonnies! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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mandi
Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 2:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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so are you saying nonnies eat from all levels; ben. are ben.,  so on and so forth?
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yaman
Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 2:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Mandi,

tiers for nonnies should be read as:

tier 1&2 benes= benes

tier 1&2 avoids= avoid

for secs tier 2 avoids can be considered as infrequent neutrals if they are in good health.

Cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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Lola
Wednesday, January 4, 2006, 11:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
follow the portion and frequency guidelines as outlined in Live Right.  Also,
Peter recommends favoring Tier Two foods for weight loss.

Tier One: maximize health: This level, along with neutral foods for general nutritional supplmentation will suffice for most healthy individuals.

Tier Two: overcome disease: These adaptations are designed for those who are suffering from a chronic disease, or wish to follow the diet at a higher compliance level.


The exercise guidelines per specific blood groups assist with weight loss,
maintaining emotional health, and lowering/stabilizing cortisol levels.
...................................
tier system
EVERYONE should eat according to the Tier ONE food lists, and everyone should choose Beneficials over Neutrals as often as possible. If you desire only moderate compliance, that's as far as you need to go--and you can pretend that all of the foods in the Tier TWO list have the value "Neutral." If, on the other hand, you desire stricter (Tier TWO level) compliance, then you should eat according to BOTH lists COMBINED--not just the list labeled "Tier Two." So if you have been ignoring the distinction between the tiers and treating them as one big list, then you're already aiming for Tier TWO compliance! The way I personally use the Tier system is this: I strive to avoid all foods marked AVOID on either list (Tier TWO compliance), but if I know that circumstances are going to require me to eat an AVOID food, I try to make it one of the ones on the "Tier Two" list because I figure that these are the lesser evils.




''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ISA-MANUELA
Thursday, January 5, 2006, 8:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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ahaaaaaaaaaaaa Yaman-cim so far I do understand you  right...my suggestion was not that wrong that an avoid stays for an avoid...            
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Arit
Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 5:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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How do I find out my secretor status and what's a secretor anyway?

Arit
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Don
Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 5:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
Gender: Male
Location: North Alabama
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Quoted from rutharit
How do I find out my secretor status and what's a secretor anyway?

Here is Dr. D’s overview of secretor vs. non-secretor information: http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/store3/template2/secretor.htm

“…having information about your Secretor/Non-secretor status might be a valuable piece of health information. While, unfortunately, the news for Non-secretors is not as rosy, it is better to have information. With information comes knowledge. And with knowledge, comes the ability to intervene.”

“In addition to allowing important diet refinements, knowing your secretor status can help you use nutritional supplements more effectively and intelligently while adding to your awareness of illness and metabolic dysfunction you may be prone to because of your secretor genetics.”

The NAP secretor test was developed in cooperation with Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratories, a renowned industry leader in innovative diagnostic testing.  You can collect the saliva needed for the secretor test at home, but the sample will need to be returned to the lab for results to be obtained.

Also read: http://www.dadamo.com/knowbase/subtype/sec9.htm

The secretor test kit can be gotten directly from NAP at:
http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/BTstore/BTSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=TE002

Or you can get it from one of their international distributors:
http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/store3/template2/inter.htm


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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ISA-MANUELA
Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 7:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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since when nonniehood is a kind of sickness
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Lola
Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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who said that, Isa? )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, February 13, 2006, 10:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 2,314
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That info is not posted on the website.  You'll have to beg, borrow or buy a copy of LR4YT for that.  Someone might post a few key foods for you, I don't have LR4YT handy and not an A so don't know them off the top of my head.


Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Lola
Monday, January 8, 2007, 2:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Tier system is explained at:
http://www.dadamo.com/errata/smartfaq.cgi?answer=1075124989
tier 1 - is more for maximizing health...the beneficial foods and refraining from avoids in this tier along with neutral foods for general nutritional supplementation will suffice for most healthy individuals

Tier 2 - the beneficial foods and the refraining from avoids on this tier is designed for those people who are suffering from a chronic disease or wish to follow the diet at a higher compliance level...think of the beneficials on tier 2 as super beneficials

any neutrals on tier 1 or 2 are not beneficial..


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ABJoe
Monday, January 8, 2007, 4:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Am I correct in interpreting the tier system that if following the Tier 1 that all Tier 2 are neutrals?  It seems like it corresponds somewhat to the 5 tier ratings in the Health Series books...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Lola
Monday, January 8, 2007, 4:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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nonnies should not take the tier system into account.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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KimonoKat
Monday, January 8, 2007, 5:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
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Quoted from lola
nonnies should not take the tier system into account.


You're right Lola.  I should have made that clearer in my post.  One could be a nonnie and be healthy, with no weight or debilitating issues....they still would not be able to use the tiers.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Marion78
Thursday, January 18, 2007, 10:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hello, I'm currently beginning to follow the Tier Diets discussed in Live Right For Your Type.  I'm a bit confused on how to use these diets.  I don't get what the Tier 1 and Tier 2 sections mean and the Neutral sections.  I'm currently trying to overcome many health problems.  So, I'm wanting to get the most out of what I'm doing.  Could someone please break it down for me.

I just had my secretor test taken and I'm quite sure that I'm a Type O non-secretor.  I'm not certain of that, but all of the foods that type O non-secretors are too avoid, cause me problems.  So, we'll see...

Regards,
Marion

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Don
Friday, January 19, 2007, 2:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
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Location: North Alabama
Age: 58
Tier 2 beneficial foods are not better for you then Tier one foods.

The Tier system is explained in the FAQ and in LR4YT.

An easy way for secretors only to think about it is:

From Best to Worst
1 = Tier 1 Beneficial
2 = Tier 2 Beneficial
3 = Neutral
4 = Tier 2 Avoid
5 = Tier 1 Avoid

If you are in good health and want a slightly less strict diet then
consider Tier 2 avoid, and beneficial, items as neutral.

If you are more concerned about your health or are Rh-, A2, or MM then consider Tier 2 avoid items as avoids and off limits. You should also be primarily eating Tier 1 beneficial items, but when you want something else then try to eat a Tier 2 beneficial before considering a neutral item.

Non-secretors just use the avoid, neutral, and beneficial item values as indicated and ignore the Tier 1 and 2 groupings. For additional explanation of this read: For nonsecretors, there are really only two tiers.


Merging the new food values in the Health Library books and the Tiers in LR4YT the ranking would sort of look like this:

From Best to Worst
1 = Super Beneficial
2 = Tier 1 Beneficial
3 = Tier 2 Beneficial
4 = Neutral
5 = Neutral: Allowed Infrequently
6 = Tier 2 Avoid
7 = Tier 1 Avoid


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, January 19, 2007, 4:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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1.  MoDon, your post above is the best, clearest description I've ever read of the Tier system.  Kudos!  That said...

2.  I find the Tier system VERY confusing and I personally suggest following the lists as set forth here on the site in Typebase4, or using one of the specific "health library books" lists if you are challenged by a specific disease like arthritis, cancer or diabetes that is covered in one of those books.  If you prefer/find it easier and more user-friendly to refer to lists in a book, yet you aren't challenged by a disease covered in a health library book, you can certainly use the food lists in your "Live Right For Your Type", but just treat all beneficials as beneficials, all neutrals as neutrals, and all avoids as avoids, ignoring the tiers.  I personally do not recommend trying to follow the tier system in LR4YT, I ignore it (which works out well, since I'm a non-secretor *lol*).

Using Typebase4 on this site, if you are a healthy person not challenged by a disease that has an even more customized diet in one of the health library series books, is what I recommend to people.

I hope this all hasn't totally confused you!!!!  By the way, WELCOME!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page
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Lola
Friday, January 19, 2007, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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here s my last shot!!!
Quoted Text
Dr D:
The Two-Tier Diet is designed to offer a more
individualized program.  Tier One is the basic
diet for everyone.  Tier Two values should be
used if you are recovering from an illness,
healing from an injury, suffering from chronic
fatigue, or encountering added stress, or if
you need to lose weight or are addressing other
health issues.   If you are adhering to the Tier Two diet, use caution when you incorporate neutral foods for general nutritional supplementation.
Tier Two values should also be
used if you are a non-secretor, or if you are
incorporating subtype variants, such as MM, A2
, or Rh-.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, January 19, 2007, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Oh, and meant to say in my other post, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the way, in the newer books in the health library series, things are customized to the level of super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid.  I think this is SO customized, clear, user-friendly and just fabu.  And I think that is what Dr. D. was going for with the tiers, but it just didn't quite translate down to us mere mortals *lol*.  But I think that the "super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid" is the "tiers made clear", if you will.  I think that is what we'll see in the new ER4YG...either that or some complete gestalt shift that will blow us all away *L*!  But anyhooo, I just LOVE the super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid breakdown.  It is clear and it takes the diet to notches unknown.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Mari
Sunday, February 11, 2007, 6:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have the LR4YT book, so I don't do anything with the tiers.  I just pay attention to the beneficials and avoids and it works for me...
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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OK, I just got my LR4YT  book, and the whole tier system had me completely confused!

So the 2 tier system and the super beficieal/beneficial/neutral eat frequently/neutral eat infrequently/avoid foods are pretty much the same thing?

I should count Tier 1 beneficials as "super beneficials" ?

Tier 2 Beneficials are "beneficials"?

Neutral is neutral, from either chart?

Tier 2 avoid is equivilent to "neutral eat infrequently" in the Health Series?

Tier 1 avoid is "avoid this food at all costs!!!!"?            

Or am I getting something mixed up?

I now own the LR4YT book and I'd like to furthur understand it before returning the Arthritis Book to the library.                


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lola
Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 10:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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in Dr D s own words
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/admin_config.pl?read=77427


if you happened to be a nonnie, the tier system doesn t apply....
one more reason to find out more on your individuality!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
page 118 in LR4YT there is a brief explanation of the two tier system.  
Tier One:  maximize health:
Tier Two: overcome disease:
tiers don't apply to non-secretors.


1. I notice that Typebase doesn't take the Tiers into account, and so many newbies don't even know about the Tier system, crucial - for me - to the practice of the Blood Type Diet as explained in Live Right 4 Your Type.

2. Even Old Timers forget the Tier system now, it seems. I'm reading a current blog by one who says coconut is an avoid for "all blood types", "as is pork". For a B secretor, both pork and coconut MILK are avoids on Tier Two - i.e., to overcome disease, as Lola defines the tiers above but not on Tier One. (And coconut meat isn't even mentioned. Nonetheless, I use it no more often than I eat coconut milk, which is very rarely.)

Whenever I've consulted TypeBase, I've missed the Tier distinction. It constitutes, for a BTD follower, the same sort of clarification as the blackdot-vs-Avoid does for the GTD follower. If GTD followers cease to distinguish between blackdots and Avoids, then BTD followers shouldn't have two tiers -- that's the sort of equation it'd be, precisely.


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
dadamo Blogger and Forum participant since 2005
Cyber-Newbie, as of 2004
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ABJoe
Monday, February 21, 2011, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Because of the variety of plans someone can choose to follow now, I find it difficult to state what value a food has, as it may be different for the individual (even if the same BT or GT) because of a different plan...

We all need to determine what our plan is and why - for that we ask questions to determine how to use the information to get the best results possible...  


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Lola
Monday, February 21, 2011, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....
with swami, we each get our own......a blessing!


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ruthiegirl
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The Tier system, while confusing to navigate, is still a very good tool for easing into BTD or for making "the best choice" in a less-than-perfect situation. All the talk about GTD and SWAMI can be very confusing for people who are new to BTD and need to gradually let go of their old "favorite foods" and start eating beneficials. Focusing on just the tier 1 box (avoid just the tier 1 avoids and emphasize the tier 1 beneficials, everything else counts as neutral for now) is a good way to start on BTD if you're totally unfamiliar with it.

I don't like how the "worst of the worst" are in the same table as "the best of the best"- I much prefer the diamond and black dot system Dr D used for GTD and SWAMI. Diamonds are like tier 1 beneficials (the absolute healthiest things to eat) and black dots are like tier 2 avoids (bad for you, but OK to have occasionally or in small amounts, or to go ahead and eat anyway if your'e not ready for full compliance.) I've found that the way the food lists are organized get better with each subsequent publication, and since LR4YT was the 2nd book published, the organization is a bit confusing.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 8:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....


I think what you meant to say was that the Tier System excluded nonnies, in that it did not pertain to them. It was not exclusive(ly) for nonnies.

And: ruthiegirl: Tier Two neutrals and black dots are not, according to Dr. D'Adamo, to "go ahead and eat anyway if you're not ready for full compliance". In fact, in his The Genotype Diet, he takes the opposite approach! He says that if your health is not great, or if you're just getting started on the GTD for a few months, then avoid the foods with the black dots. When your health has improved, and/or after you've been on the diet for a few months go ahead and open up your diet to the black-dot foods! He's not trying to create a population that is "ready" for "full compliance"! That's not the world he's creating, that's for sure. Not for individuals, anyway.
His trajectory moves in exactly the opposite direction: Toward health and freedom.


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ruthiegirl
Monday, February 21, 2011, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.

IMO, if they followed GTD but considered black dots to be "neutrals" they'd still be a whole lot better off than if they continue following the SAD. Similarly, they'd do well if they avoided the tier 1 avoids in LR4YT and ignored the "tier 2" and "neutral" avoid lists. Not as well as if they went for full compliance,  but better than eating the Standard American Diet.

Most people who see Dr D in his clinic are already unhealthy and are motivated to change their diets. A good many people on this forum are as well. But I know people IRL who are interested in BTD but not quite ready to make major changes yet, and for them I'll say "try to avoid wheat, corn and potatoes" and that's the sum total of my dietary advice to an O.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.

IMO, if they followed GTD but considered black dots to be "neutrals" they'd still be a whole lot better off than if they continue following the SAD. Similarly, they'd do well if they avoided the tier 1 avoids in LR4YT and ignored the "tier 2" and "neutral" avoid lists. Not as well as if they went for full compliance,  but better than eating the Standard American Diet.

Most people who see Dr D in his clinic are already unhealthy and are motivated to change their diets. A good many people on this forum are as well. But I know people IRL who are interested in BTD but not quite ready to make major changes yet, and for them I'll say "try to avoid wheat, corn and potatoes" and that's the sum total of my dietary advice to an O.


And, ironically, I'm bolder than you are with those people. I say "Try to avoid Wheat and Dairy Products and maybe even Nightshades. Think Meat/Fish/Poultry and Fruits and Vegetables as your mainstays. Choose meat rather than, say, beans and nuts for your proteins. Choose strenuous, sweaty workouts. And: Pick up a copy of Live Right 4 Your Type by Peter D'Adamo."



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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.


I should probably also address this one while I'm here.
"The books are written for..."

Dr. D'Adamo's books have sold in the millions. And, wonderfully, and contrary to what you say, they are indeed written for people who "aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now" as well as for the substantially fewer numbers who are. I rejoice to see the author showing people how to use his findings without having to make those huge changes, how to, as you say, lighten up on the wheat for O's, how to let go of red meat for A's, and maybe nothing else for a while. Usually it's after doing that very little thing that a person sees a positive change and becomes ready to take on another health-geared practice, one small step at a time - maybe dropping one avoid per year!

To categorically proclaim that "the books are written for people who want to see big health changes" negates the experiences of many of us. I didn't need big health changes when I first picked up and began to enjoy/use Eat Right 4 Your Type in 1996/7. I was in excellent health already, and Dr. D'Adamo's book was written for me. It showed me what I was intuitively doing right, and how I might perfect my own program AND assist others in pursuing theirs.

It's so important to remember that those millions of books didn't fall exclusively, or even MOSTLY, into the hands of really sick people. Many who buy diet-oriented books aren't looking for what you call "big health changes".

And that's okay, too.


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Lola
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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exclusive, and not exclusively for.....right


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Jenny
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I really tried to understand the Tiers at the time that I discovered and used them, but never mastered the system. Most people I talk to need a simpler approach, so I tend to give them the old ERFYT, or the disease book appropriate to their needs, but jump over and ignore LRFYT and go straight to GT. But as soon as possible I am talking to them about Swami, and I believe that is the pinnacle of research for me at the moment.But I am not a trained (or untrained)advisor, just an enthusiastic layperson, and maybe that affects my approach.



Eating half and exercising double.
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deblynn3
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I usually direct them to the Eat Right book or GT as well. but I do think the Live Right has sooo much good information on health issues that I tell them to read if for that information and if they want to go the tier way be my guest.


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ABJoe
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....
with swami, we each get our own......a blessing!

Sorry Lola, but I have to disagree with this statement...  In LR4YT, for each BT, (for AB it is pg. 296) Dr. D. writes a paragraph explaining the two-tier diet that contains:
Quoted from LR4YT, pg. 296
Tier One is the basic diet for everyone.

Tier Two should be used (formatting changed to add emphasis):
If you are recovering from an illness,
Healing from an injury,
Suffering from chronic fatigue,
or Encountering added stress,
or if you need to lose weight or are are addressing other health issues.

Tier Two should also be used if you are a Non-Secretor or incorporating subtype variants such as MM, A2 or Rh(-).


I actually thought the Two-Tier system was just as easy because I just took the lists as they were written and incorporated them...


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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


1. I notice that Typebase doesn't take the Tiers into account, and so many newbies don't even know about the Tier system, crucial - for me - to the practice of the Blood Type Diet as explained in Live Right 4 Your Type.

2. Even Old Timers forget the Tier system now, it seems. I'm reading a current blog by one who says coconut is an avoid for "all blood types", "as is pork". For a B secretor, both pork and coconut MILK are avoids on Tier Two - i.e., to overcome disease, as Lola defines the tiers above but not on Tier One. (And coconut meat isn't even mentioned. Nonetheless, I use it no more often than I eat coconut milk, which is very rarely.)

Whenever I've consulted TypeBase, I've missed the Tier distinction. It constitutes, for a BTD follower, the same sort of clarification as the blackdot-vs-Avoid does for the GTD follower. If GTD followers cease to distinguish between blackdots and Avoids, then BTD followers shouldn't have two tiers -- that's the sort of equation it'd be, precisely.


Anyway, the point in bringing it up (not to disparage the healthy discussion that's ensued) was to explain where TypeBase falls short for me. It reflects only Tier Two recommendations, i.e., those for people who are dealing with serious health challenges. It's not fully a database for the values of these foods for the maintenance-phase follower in good health.


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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 1:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
TypeBase falls short for me. It reflects only Tier Two recommendations


agree to disagree


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 2:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola


agree to disagree


Case in point.
Coconut milk at TypeBase: AVOID, for ALL B secretors.

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?1


But, according to LR4YT, Coconut milk is a:
Tier One Neutral for B secretors.
(Tier Two Avoid for B secretors.)

So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, Lola. TypeBase is an accurate reflection of Tier Two guidelines. I'm simply saying I wish it also showed Tier One values. If your "disagreeing" means you're glad Tier One is ignored, that's something else...?

The book is therefore more inclusive.



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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 2:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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people interested in following tier values, should get a book, no?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 2:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
people interested in following tier values, should get a book, no?


Unless they're following Tier Two. For Tier Two followers, only, TypeBase is completely accurate, it seems.
If they're following Tier One, they cannot find what they're looking for in TypeBase.




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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 2:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ok, and don t you think Dr D believes tier two is all he wishes to put out there, as a very generous gesture on his part, given lists are under copyright rules.....?

it s all good the way it is, and for a reason


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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C_Sharp
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 3:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


Case in point.
Coconut milk at TypeBase: AVOID, for ALL B secretors.

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?1


But, according to LR4YT, Coconut milk is a:
Tier One Neutral for B secretors.
(Tier Two Avoid for B secretors.)




In the Live Right book neutrals do not have tiers. Neutrals are just neutrals.

Tiers do not apply to nonsecretors.

Page 269 of the Live Right book shows that coconut milk is a tier two avoid for B secretors and it is an avoid for B nonsecretors.

I am using a 2001 printing.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 7:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp


In the Live Right book neutrals do not have tiers. Neutrals are just neutrals.

Tiers do not apply to nonsecretors.

Page 269 of the Live Right book shows that coconut milk is a tier two avoid for B secretors and it is an avoid for B nonsecretors.

I am using a 2001 printing.


Glad we're on the same page.


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