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tier 1 & 2  This thread currently has 14,367 views. Print Print Thread
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KimonoKat
Monday, January 8, 2007, 5:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from lola
nonnies should not take the tier system into account.


You're right Lola.  I should have made that clearer in my post.  One could be a nonnie and be healthy, with no weight or debilitating issues....they still would not be able to use the tiers.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Marion78
Thursday, January 18, 2007, 10:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hello, I'm currently beginning to follow the Tier Diets discussed in Live Right For Your Type. I'm a bit confused on how to use these diets. I don't get what the Tier 1 and Tier 2 sections mean and the Neutral sections. I'm currently trying to overcome many health problems. So, I'm wanting to get the most out of what I'm doing. Could someone please break it down for me.

I just had my secretor test taken and I'm quite sure that I'm a Type O non-secretor. I'm not certain of that, but all of the foods that type O non-secretors are too avoid, cause me problems. So, we'll see...

Regards,
Marion

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Don
Friday, January 19, 2007, 2:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Tier 2 beneficial foods are not better for you then Tier one foods.

The Tier system is explained in the FAQ and in LR4YT.

An easy way for secretors only to think about it is:

From Best to Worst
1 = Tier 1 Beneficial
2 = Tier 2 Beneficial
3 = Neutral
4 = Tier 2 Avoid
5 = Tier 1 Avoid

If you are in good health and want a slightly less strict diet then
consider Tier 2 avoid, and beneficial, items as neutral.

If you are more concerned about your health or are Rh-, A2, or MM then consider Tier 2 avoid items as avoids and off limits. You should also be primarily eating Tier 1 beneficial items, but when you want something else then try to eat a Tier 2 beneficial before considering a neutral item.

Non-secretors just use the avoid, neutral, and beneficial item values as indicated and ignore the Tier 1 and 2 groupings. For additional explanation of this read: For nonsecretors, there are really only two tiers.


Merging the new food values in the Health Library books and the Tiers in LR4YT the ranking would sort of look like this:

From Best to Worst
1 = Super Beneficial
2 = Tier 1 Beneficial
3 = Tier 2 Beneficial
4 = Neutral
5 = Neutral: Allowed Infrequently
6 = Tier 2 Avoid
7 = Tier 1 Avoid


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, January 19, 2007, 4:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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1. MoDon, your post above is the best, clearest description I've ever read of the Tier system. Kudos! That said...

2. I find the Tier system VERY confusing and I personally suggest following the lists as set forth here on the site in Typebase4, or using one of the specific "health library books" lists if you are challenged by a specific disease like arthritis, cancer or diabetes that is covered in one of those books. If you prefer/find it easier and more user-friendly to refer to lists in a book, yet you aren't challenged by a disease covered in a health library book, you can certainly use the food lists in your "Live Right For Your Type", but just treat all beneficials as beneficials, all neutrals as neutrals, and all avoids as avoids, ignoring the tiers. I personally do not recommend trying to follow the tier system in LR4YT, I ignore it (which works out well, since I'm a non-secretor *lol*).

Using Typebase4 on this site, if you are a healthy person not challenged by a disease that has an even more customized diet in one of the health library series books, is what I recommend to people.

I hope this all hasn't totally confused you!!!! By the way, WELCOME!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Lola
Friday, January 19, 2007, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Dr D:
The Two-Tier Diet is designed to offer a more
individualized program.  Tier One is the basic
diet for everyone.  Tier Two values should be
used if you are recovering from an illness,
healing from an injury, suffering from chronic
fatigue, or encountering added stress, or if
you need to lose weight or are addressing other
health issues.   If you are adhering to the Tier Two diet, use caution when you incorporate neutral foods for general nutritional supplementation.
Tier Two values should also be
used if you are a non-secretor, or if you are
incorporating subtype variants, such as MM, A2
, or Rh-.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Peppermint Twist
Friday, January 19, 2007, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, and meant to say in my other post, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the way, in the newer books in the health library series, things are customized to the level of super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid. I think this is SO customized, clear, user-friendly and just fabu. And I think that is what Dr. D. was going for with the tiers, but it just didn't quite translate down to us mere mortals *lol*. But I think that the "super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid" is the "tiers made clear", if you will. I think that is what we'll see in the new ER4YG...either that or some complete gestalt shift that will blow us all away *L*! But anyhooo, I just LOVE the super beneficial, beneficial, neutral, neutral infrequent, and avoid breakdown. It is clear and it takes the diet to notches unknown.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Mari
Sunday, February 11, 2007, 6:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have the LR4YT book, so I don't do anything with the tiers.  I just pay attention to the beneficials and avoids and it works for me...
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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OK, I just got my LR4YT  book, and the whole tier system had me completely confused!

So the 2 tier system and the super beficieal/beneficial/neutral eat frequently/neutral eat infrequently/avoid foods are pretty much the same thing?

I should count Tier 1 beneficials as "super beneficials" ?

Tier 2 Beneficials are "beneficials"?

Neutral is neutral, from either chart?

Tier 2 avoid is equivilent to "neutral eat infrequently" in the Health Series?

Tier 1 avoid is "avoid this food at all costs!!!!"?            

Or am I getting something mixed up?

I now own the LR4YT book and I'd like to furthur understand it before returning the Arthritis Book to the library.                


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lola
Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 10:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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in Dr D s own words
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/admin_config.pl?read=77427


if you happened to be a nonnie, the tier system doesn t apply....
one more reason to find out more on your individuality!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
page 118 in LR4YT there is a brief explanation of the two tier system.  
Tier One:  maximize health:
Tier Two: overcome disease:
tiers don't apply to non-secretors.


1. I notice that Typebase doesn't take the Tiers into account, and so many newbies don't even know about the Tier system, crucial - for me - to the practice of the Blood Type Diet as explained in Live Right 4 Your Type.

2. Even Old Timers forget the Tier system now, it seems. I'm reading a current blog by one who says coconut is an avoid for "all blood types", "as is pork". For a B secretor, both pork and coconut MILK are avoids on Tier Two - i.e., to overcome disease, as Lola defines the tiers above but not on Tier One. (And coconut meat isn't even mentioned. Nonetheless, I use it no more often than I eat coconut milk, which is very rarely.)

Whenever I've consulted TypeBase, I've missed the Tier distinction. It constitutes, for a BTD follower, the same sort of clarification as the blackdot-vs-Avoid does for the GTD follower. If GTD followers cease to distinguish between blackdots and Avoids, then BTD followers shouldn't have two tiers -- that's the sort of equation it'd be, precisely.


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ABJoe
Monday, February 21, 2011, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Because of the variety of plans someone can choose to follow now, I find it difficult to state what value a food has, as it may be different for the individual (even if the same BT or GT) because of a different plan...

We all need to determine what our plan is and why - for that we ask questions to determine how to use the information to get the best results possible...  


RH-, ISTJ
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Lola
Monday, February 21, 2011, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....
with swami, we each get our own......a blessing!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ruthiegirl
Monday, February 21, 2011, 8:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The Tier system, while confusing to navigate, is still a very good tool for easing into BTD or for making "the best choice" in a less-than-perfect situation. All the talk about GTD and SWAMI can be very confusing for people who are new to BTD and need to gradually let go of their old "favorite foods" and start eating beneficials. Focusing on just the tier 1 box (avoid just the tier 1 avoids and emphasize the tier 1 beneficials, everything else counts as neutral for now) is a good way to start on BTD if you're totally unfamiliar with it.

I don't like how the "worst of the worst" are in the same table as "the best of the best"- I much prefer the diamond and black dot system Dr D used for GTD and SWAMI. Diamonds are like tier 1 beneficials (the absolute healthiest things to eat) and black dots are like tier 2 avoids (bad for you, but OK to have occasionally or in small amounts, or to go ahead and eat anyway if your'e not ready for full compliance.) I've found that the way the food lists are organized get better with each subsequent publication, and since LR4YT was the 2nd book published, the organization is a bit confusing.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 8:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....


I think what you meant to say was that the Tier System excluded nonnies, in that it did not pertain to them. It was not exclusive(ly) for nonnies.

And: ruthiegirl: Tier Two neutrals and black dots are not, according to Dr. D'Adamo, to "go ahead and eat anyway if you're not ready for full compliance". In fact, in his The Genotype Diet, he takes the opposite approach! He says that if your health is not great, or if you're just getting started on the GTD for a few months, then avoid the foods with the black dots. When your health has improved, and/or after you've been on the diet for a few months go ahead and open up your diet to the black-dot foods! He's not trying to create a population that is "ready" for "full compliance"! That's not the world he's creating, that's for sure. Not for individuals, anyway.
His trajectory moves in exactly the opposite direction: Toward health and freedom.


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ruthiegirl
Monday, February 21, 2011, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.

IMO, if they followed GTD but considered black dots to be "neutrals" they'd still be a whole lot better off than if they continue following the SAD. Similarly, they'd do well if they avoided the tier 1 avoids in LR4YT and ignored the "tier 2" and "neutral" avoid lists. Not as well as if they went for full compliance,  but better than eating the Standard American Diet.

Most people who see Dr D in his clinic are already unhealthy and are motivated to change their diets. A good many people on this forum are as well. But I know people IRL who are interested in BTD but not quite ready to make major changes yet, and for them I'll say "try to avoid wheat, corn and potatoes" and that's the sum total of my dietary advice to an O.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.

IMO, if they followed GTD but considered black dots to be "neutrals" they'd still be a whole lot better off than if they continue following the SAD. Similarly, they'd do well if they avoided the tier 1 avoids in LR4YT and ignored the "tier 2" and "neutral" avoid lists. Not as well as if they went for full compliance,  but better than eating the Standard American Diet.

Most people who see Dr D in his clinic are already unhealthy and are motivated to change their diets. A good many people on this forum are as well. But I know people IRL who are interested in BTD but not quite ready to make major changes yet, and for them I'll say "try to avoid wheat, corn and potatoes" and that's the sum total of my dietary advice to an O.


And, ironically, I'm bolder than you are with those people. I say "Try to avoid Wheat and Dairy Products and maybe even Nightshades. Think Meat/Fish/Poultry and Fruits and Vegetables as your mainstays. Choose meat rather than, say, beans and nuts for your proteins. Choose strenuous, sweaty workouts. And: Pick up a copy of Live Right 4 Your Type by Peter D'Adamo."



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san j
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I know that's not what Dr. D recomends- but I also know human nature. The books are written for people who want to see big health changes, not for people who are overall healthy, want to eat better, but aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now.


I should probably also address this one while I'm here.
"The books are written for..."

Dr. D'Adamo's books have sold in the millions. And, wonderfully, and contrary to what you say, they are indeed written for people who "aren't really motivated to make any major dietary changes right now" as well as for the substantially fewer numbers who are. I rejoice to see the author showing people how to use his findings without having to make those huge changes, how to, as you say, lighten up on the wheat for O's, how to let go of red meat for A's, and maybe nothing else for a while. Usually it's after doing that very little thing that a person sees a positive change and becomes ready to take on another health-geared practice, one small step at a time - maybe dropping one avoid per year!

To categorically proclaim that "the books are written for people who want to see big health changes" negates the experiences of many of us. I didn't need big health changes when I first picked up and began to enjoy/use Eat Right 4 Your Type in 1996/7. I was in excellent health already, and Dr. D'Adamo's book was written for me. It showed me what I was intuitively doing right, and how I might perfect my own program AND assist others in pursuing theirs.

It's so important to remember that those millions of books didn't fall exclusively, or even MOSTLY, into the hands of really sick people. Many who buy diet-oriented books aren't looking for what you call "big health changes".

And that's okay, too.


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Lola
Monday, February 21, 2011, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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exclusive, and not exclusively for.....right


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Jenny
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I really tried to understand the Tiers at the time that I discovered and used them, but never mastered the system. Most people I talk to need a simpler approach, so I tend to give them the old ERFYT, or the disease book appropriate to their needs, but jump over and ignore LRFYT and go straight to GT. But as soon as possible I am talking to them about Swami, and I believe that is the pinnacle of research for me at the moment.But I am not a trained (or untrained)advisor, just an enthusiastic layperson, and maybe that affects my approach.



Eating half and exercising double.
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deblynn3
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I usually direct them to the Eat Right book or GT as well. but I do think the Live Right has sooo much good information on health issues that I tell them to read if for that information and if they want to go the tier way be my guest.


Swami, 100% me..
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ABJoe
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
right, only Tier system was exclusive for nonnies.....
with swami, we each get our own......a blessing!

Sorry Lola, but I have to disagree with this statement...  In LR4YT, for each BT, (for AB it is pg. 296) Dr. D. writes a paragraph explaining the two-tier diet that contains:
Quoted from LR4YT, pg. 296
Tier One is the basic diet for everyone.

Tier Two should be used (formatting changed to add emphasis):
If you are recovering from an illness,
Healing from an injury,
Suffering from chronic fatigue,
or Encountering added stress,
or if you need to lose weight or are are addressing other health issues.

Tier Two should also be used if you are a Non-Secretor or incorporating subtype variants such as MM, A2 or Rh(-).


I actually thought the Two-Tier system was just as easy because I just took the lists as they were written and incorporated them...


RH-, ISTJ
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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


1. I notice that Typebase doesn't take the Tiers into account, and so many newbies don't even know about the Tier system, crucial - for me - to the practice of the Blood Type Diet as explained in Live Right 4 Your Type.

2. Even Old Timers forget the Tier system now, it seems. I'm reading a current blog by one who says coconut is an avoid for "all blood types", "as is pork". For a B secretor, both pork and coconut MILK are avoids on Tier Two - i.e., to overcome disease, as Lola defines the tiers above but not on Tier One. (And coconut meat isn't even mentioned. Nonetheless, I use it no more often than I eat coconut milk, which is very rarely.)

Whenever I've consulted TypeBase, I've missed the Tier distinction. It constitutes, for a BTD follower, the same sort of clarification as the blackdot-vs-Avoid does for the GTD follower. If GTD followers cease to distinguish between blackdots and Avoids, then BTD followers shouldn't have two tiers -- that's the sort of equation it'd be, precisely.


Anyway, the point in bringing it up (not to disparage the healthy discussion that's ensued) was to explain where TypeBase falls short for me. It reflects only Tier Two recommendations, i.e., those for people who are dealing with serious health challenges. It's not fully a database for the values of these foods for the maintenance-phase follower in good health.


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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lola
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 1:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
TypeBase falls short for me. It reflects only Tier Two recommendations


agree to disagree


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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san j
Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 2:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola


agree to disagree


Case in point.
Coconut milk at TypeBase: AVOID, for ALL B secretors.

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?1


But, according to LR4YT, Coconut milk is a:
Tier One Neutral for B secretors.
(Tier Two Avoid for B secretors.)

So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, Lola. TypeBase is an accurate reflection of Tier Two guidelines. I'm simply saying I wish it also showed Tier One values. If your "disagreeing" means you're glad Tier One is ignored, that's something else...?

The book is therefore more inclusive.



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