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* ABO/Microbiome  This thread currently has 3,758 views. Print Print Thread
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Dr. D
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 1:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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'Our novel finding indicates that the ABO blood group is one of the genetically determined host factors modulating the composition of the human intestinal microbiota, thus enabling new applications in the field of personalized nutrition and medicine.'

Their novel idea?  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22672382


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

Revision History (2 edits)
ABJoe  -  Thursday, August 9, 2012, 3:08pm
Fixed typo in title.
C_Sharp  -  Thursday, August 9, 2012, 2:11pm
Added asterisk to front of thread title to indicate that Dr. D started this thread
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 2:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe they read it in a novel?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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ABJoe
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 3:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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  Can they really be so blind that they didn't find similar conclusions already in the published material?


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Spring
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 4:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe someone needs to show them the "search" button. No wonder conventional "knowledge" is in such a mess if this is an example of how "smart" they are!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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shoulderblade
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 8:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
Maybe someone needs to show them the "search" button. No wonder conventional "knowledge" is in such a mess if this is an example of how "smart" they are!

I think modern education is somewhat akin to putting blinders on a Horse. Hopefully younger people today, having grown up with the 'search' button, will do a better job of exploring the terrain of knowledge and ideas available than their elders have. This 'discovery' does not really make my day.  






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Goldie
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 9:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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so late in coming.. so bad.. yet at least now they will wake up and smell the coffee?????


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Andrea AWsec
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok lets look at the bright side-- they read Dr. D's books and think maybe he is on to something.


And Dr. D can use this in one of his bibliographies.  





MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Lola
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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a tiny recognition would have been very civilized

but that would be asking too much


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Lloyd
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 10:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2180-12-94.pdf

The researchers all have contact information on the first page.

Quoted Text
In this study, we hypothesized that the ABO blood group antigens, which are expressed on
the intestinal mucosa of secretor individuals [16,17] determine the gastrointestinal microbiota
composition in healthy individuals.


Were it me, I would be happy that someone went to the trouble of paying for a clinical trial and putting the results in a peer reviewed journal, another step towards proving my thesis.

Framed in the context of what is accepted as scientific evidence this is a novel finding.

More importantly, it is an important proof of theory.

"The Blood Type Diet is not scientifically proven"

"Well how about this study then? Here's some proof of theory! Peer reviewed!"

So, write the people on the first page and maybe they add an acknowledgment of the theory in practice prior to the study. Oh, and don't forget to thank them for running the study.
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PCUK-Positive
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 10:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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not so much blind as blatant copying look at some other research the first name has done

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu.....cauthor_uid=22672382

His CV http://fi.linkedin.com/pub/harri-m%C3%A4kivuokko/3/9a2/69b


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

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Lloyd
Thursday, August 9, 2012, 11:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
not so much blind as blatant copying look at some other research the first name has done

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu.....cauthor_uid=22672382

His CV http://fi.linkedin.com/pub/harri-m%C3%A4kivuokko/3/9a2/69b


Are you saying that ideas should not be researched in a scientific manner that can be duplicated, and the details published with peer review? There is a limit to how far you can go with anectdotal evidence. Dr. D has done some lab work, notably with lectins, but you need to a lot more to gain acceptance.

The clinical trial that is the subject of the thread is an important step forward to validating BTD to the scientific community.



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Spring
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Quoted from Lloyd
Are you saying that ideas should not be researched in a scientific manner that can be duplicated, and the details published with peer review? There is a limit to how far you can go with anectdotal evidence. Dr. D has done some lab work, notably with lectins, but you need to a lot more to gain acceptance.

The clinical trial that is the subject of the thread is an important step forward to validating BTD to the scientific community.


Quoted Text
Their novel idea?  

Exactly what sort of response would someone expect to get after a comment like this? Your post seems to be playing down what Dr. D. has done..... Are all the supplements we buy just sort of a shot in the dark - based on what? I don't think so.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Lloyd
Friday, August 10, 2012, 11:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring



Exactly what sort of response would someone expect to get after a comment like this? Your post seems to be playing down what Dr. D. has done..... Are all the supplements we buy just sort of a shot in the dark - based on what? I don't think so.


If I were to take your comment seriously I would have to believe that you are opposed to scientific research.

Dr. D  spent innumerable hours researching his ideas before writing his books. If you read the reference lists in ER4YT you will find that that research took advantage of a large number of publications like the one that is the subject of the thread. It doesn't lessen the theory or the work done on it, much less putting it into practice.

Dr. D's complaint is that his work was not recognized in print by the people who ran the study. Not that they ran the study. The study is a validation.



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Amazone I.
Friday, August 10, 2012, 11:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Easy E
Friday, August 10, 2012, 2:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree with lloyd.  It is an evolving process.  There is already good biology that has seen O and B have 5 times higher alkaline phosphate (or whatever) than A in the upper GI tract, though all have same digestive power in lower GI tract.

Thats why A's got to spice up their food!


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RedLilac
Friday, August 10, 2012, 2:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr D has always been ahead of the times – lucky for us he is.


I am B- NON-Sec Explorer; my son is B+ SEC Nomad; my Mother was O+; and my Father was AB-
SWAMI Thanksgiving present 2008
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Captain_Janeway
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Secretor genotype plays an important role in what types of microbiota are expressed in the intestinal mucosa.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21625510


Rh Neg, Le(a+b-), NN, Fy(a-b+)

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PCUK-Positive
Friday, August 10, 2012, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think we are all in agreement and that actually the "Their novel idea" is the cheeky thing.

since we all actually agree that Dr D is the Master, perhaps we should stop arguing or getting wound up with misrepresentation's of each other.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

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Dr. D
Friday, August 10, 2012, 7:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Really, the novel idea was my fathers...


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Andrea AWsec
Friday, August 10, 2012, 11:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Dr. D
Really, the novel idea was my fathers...






MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Spring
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Quoted Text
If I were to take your comment seriously I would have to believe that you are opposed to scientific research.


And just which comment would that be, Lloyd?


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Lloyd
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 12:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring


And just which comment would that be, Lloyd?


The validation by independent researchers is an important part of the scientific process. Suitable trial designs with statistically significant results that can be duplicated by other independent researchers is the epitome of the validation process.

The accrued benefits of validation lead to things like the BTD, which relies on a combination of validated and unvalidated parts as part of a broad hypothetical approach. The validation of any part of the hypothesis strengthens the whole. It may also uncover some other facet that requires adjustment of the hypothesis or the application, which as you know has happened with Dr. D's work as well.

A person may decide for themself that something is valid without independent confirmation based on any of a number of things including partial scientific research, personal experience or the report of someone else's personal experience. All popular diets fads have this dimension, by way of example.

The validation process by way of independent scientific research, whether the findings are novel or confirmatory, is huge.


Revision History (3 edits)
Lloyd  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 1:34pm
spelling
Lloyd  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 1:31pm
back to unvalidated from non-validated from unvalidated.
Lloyd  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 1:25pm
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Spring
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Many things have been "validated" by many "scientists." We read stuff all the time that someone has "validated" something only to find that some other person/s "proved" them wrong. At this point in my life, I take all of it with a big grain of salt until I have seen some sort of validation with my own eyes - especially when my life may depend on it. I guess you could say that I am sort of jaded by so-called "validation" by so-called scientists! Actually, maybe not just "sort of" jaded, but completely jaded!!

Dr. D's work made perfect sense to me about two minutes after I first started reading one of his books because of my own beliefs that had been formed over a period of over forty years.

So to say that I don't seem to believe in scientific research reminds me of Benjamin Franklin. I can just see the scientists of today accepting him! "No string of degrees after his name - who does he think he is anyway?! He is no scientist, what does he know?!" People on this forum are proving things for themselves all the time. Day in and day out.

Of course, we would like to see Dr. D. recognized for his work! But, for the most part, all these Johnny-come-lately folks are only interested in seeing their own work recognized, or so it would seem.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Lloyd
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Quoted from Spring
Many things have been "validated" by many "scientists." We read stuff all the time that someone has "validated" something only to find that some other person/s "proved" them wrong. At this point in my life, I take all of it with a big grain of salt until I have seen some sort of validation with my own eyes - especially when my life may depend on it. I guess you could say that I am sort of jaded by so-called "validation" by so-called scientists! Actually, maybe not just "sort of" jaded, but completely jaded!!



So I can put you down as agreeing to the validation of (the thesis of) bacterial affinity by blood type via the study that Dr. D mentioned in the original post, or are you saying that you don't agree that the study was valid or that it didn't validate the concept? Or are you saying the researchers were not properly credentialed? That validation is not needed? Remember that Dr. D relied to a large degree on validated work to come up with the BTD.




Revision History (2 edits)
Lloyd  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:51pm
added (the thesis of) to the text.
Lloyd  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 3:30pm
spelling
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Spring
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For my part, I don't have any need whatsoever of having Dr. D.'s work "validated." It has withstood the test of time in all ways that are important to me and many, many others.

He didn't seem to receive any recognition of his work in the article, but one thing you cannot deny is that when those who have tried every way under the sun to INVALIDATE or bury his work, his name was mentioned loudly and long. So was that an invalidation of all those that Dr. D. has used as references? Not to us, of course.

If Dr. D. wants to use their reference in the future, that is his choice to make.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Chloe
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lloyd
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2180-12-94.pdf

The researchers all have contact information on the first page.



Were it me, I would be happy that someone went to the trouble of paying for a clinical trial and putting the results in a peer reviewed journal, another step towards proving my thesis.

Framed in the context of what is accepted as scientific evidence this is a novel finding.

More importantly, it is an important proof of theory.

"The Blood Type Diet is not scientifically proven"

"Well how about this study then? Here's some proof of theory! Peer reviewed!"

So, write the people on the first page and maybe they add an acknowledgment of the theory in practice prior to the study. Oh, and don't forget to thank them for running the study.


I like this:

"As our study provides a link between the host
genetic factors and the clustering of the intestinal microbiota in this Finnish cohort, it also
warrants further investigations with high-throughput techniques of microbiota analysis to
evaluate whether the specific species/OTUs responsible for the microbiota differences can be
found, thus potentially enabling new applications in the field of personalized nutrition and
medicine."


They would like to enable new applications in the field of personalized nutrition?  How about sending these people their own personalized SWAMI.




"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lloyd
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Quoted from Spring
For my part, I don't have any need whatsoever of having Dr. D.'s work "validated." It has withstood the test of time in all ways that are important to me and many, many others.


That is quite reasonable. I hope you take into account that others benefit from additional validation.

Quoted from Spring

If Dr. D. wants to use their reference in the future, that is his choice to make.


Or anyone else who is going to use that data to build a hypothesis, construct a trial or build upon those results. Might even be something that benefits you.

I have said in the past that when looking at a trial or a study, one has to look at the trial design and data along with the assumptions used in reaching the conclusions. Peer reviewed trials are not perfect in the absolute but they do provide a good source of useable knowledge. It would be a shame if researchers were criticized for doing a trial that advances knowledge. If one wants to criticize a credit (or lack thereof) that is a separate matter.
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Spring
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 2:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have done plenty of trials on my diet during the last twelve plus years. In fact, I have been concerned about my diet since I was a child, and you can believe that or not.

People in general on this forum have learned the very important lesson of listening to their bodies and responding to what it tells them. It is important because their bodies are talking to them day in and day out and sometimes at  night! I credit Dr. D. a great deal for helping us to be more aware and watchful of how we react to foods and the environment around us.

I knew a while before I learned it from Dr. D.'s recommendation that chicken was causing me considerable stress. Also, I was very thankful that many of those beans were taken off my SWAMI because they had been bothering me for years on the BTD. I haven't cried because most soy products are off my lists, either.

No collection of "scientists" with names I can't pronounce have had to hold my hand and guide me through this. You will just have to accept the fact that I do not hallow the names of scientists. I have seen too much that has me thoroughly jaded. But you can be as happy as you want with this new "science" about our blood types!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Easy E
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 2:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RedLilac
Dr D has always been ahead of the times – lucky for us he is.


The only thing that intrigues me is that he posits blood type O, a recessive trait that is a deletion mutation from the A sugar, came before dominant genes A and B.

Hematologists and others in the fields of evolutionary biology have observed all blood types to be millions of years old, with blood type A the original blood type of primate species, including humans.  

Modern chimpanzees are almost all A, gorillas mainly B, and orangutans have all four blood types.  All other primates possess the same ABO system as humans.

So in the evolutionary order, it should be A1, then A2, then O, with B having come sometime well before this transition.  A1 and B are the most ancestral blood types in primates. O evolved when hominids hit the ground and were exposed to far greater amounts of malaria it is hypothesized.

I have noted this before, but it has nothing to do with how the different blood types react to foods and stresses, as they are all geared somewhat differently, having strengths and weaknesses.

Perhaps more should be looked into this though, that is my opinion.  All respects to the great work of the blood type diets!  I am not trying to down it!

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Lola
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 6:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
The only thing that intrigues me is that he posits blood type O, a recessive trait that is a deletion mutation from the A sugar, came before dominant genes A and B.

Hematologists and others in the fields of evolutionary biology have observed all blood types to be millions of years old, with blood type A the original blood type of primate species, including humans.  


http://www.bing.com/search?cp=1252&FORM=FREESS&q=first+blood&q1=site%3Adadamo.com

wish you would take a moment and read through the material available

your statement is incorrect to a point


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Lloyd
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Quoted from Spring

No collection of "scientists" with names I can't pronounce have had to hold my hand and guide me through this. You will just have to accept the fact that I do not hallow the names of scientists. I have seen too much that has me thoroughly jaded. But you can be as happy as you want with this new "science" about our blood types!


So if you could pronounce their names, you would hold the work in higher esteem?

I also don't understand why you have been putting "science", "scientists" and other things in quotes.
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PCUK-Positive
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 2:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I suspect that if any one else had continued this thread in that manner you would have , quiet rightly, suggested they stop being so petty.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Lloyd
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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I suspect that if any one else had continued this thread in that manner you would have , quiet rightly, suggested they stop being so petty.


There is something to that to take under advisement.

My hope was that some previous comments could be cleared up as not being intended as divisive. If it came out looking badly, that is certainly something I might have judged better.
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Easy E
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Quoted from Lola


http://www.bing.com/search?cp=1252&FORM=FREESS&q=first+blood&q1=site%3Adadamo.com

wish you would take a moment and read through the material available

your statement is incorrect to a point


I have read hematology journal articles and up to date research, as well as D'adamos on this subject.  Some have entire careers dedicated to this area of study.  D'adamo himself says he is not 100 percent on this area as it is not his field of study.  

But it causes misinformation.  All of these blood types are tens of millions of years old and did not evolve because of dietary changes, as all prehistoric primates and early humans ate what they could.  Does not change how foods act i do not think on genotypes though.
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PCUK-Positive
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 7:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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They may have eaten what they could, but they could have evolved and specialised, becoming accustomed to their diet. it's not unreasonable,

the difference is that eating whatever you can seems to be okay but only for a relatively short term.

dogs eat meat, if you feed them wheat they get cancer of one sort or another. if you microwaver their food they have bowel issues and constipation also

ant eaters eat ants, god knows what would happen them if they ate only strawberries




Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Spring
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Quoted from Lloyd
I also don't understand why you have been putting "science", "scientists" and other things in quotes.


BECAUSE far too many so-called "scientists" have been the authors of such terrible "science" that mankind will be paying for it until the end of time.  Have you been living under a rock, Lloyd?


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Dr. D
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Quoted Text
I have read hematology journal articles and up to date research, as well as D'adamos on this subject.  Some have entire careers dedicated to this area of study.  D'adamo himself says he is not 100 percent on this area as it is not his field of study.  


This is true, although even if the molecular biology (phylogenetics) indicates that the mutations are millions of years old, this does not automatically imply that the phenotypic characteristics of each type were determined exclusively at that time. Geographic dispersion and founder effect would have shaped the modern day characteristics. These have always been the points behind the anthropology argument. However they were greatly simplified in the first book for the basic readership. That they were used to dispute the value of the theory represents a certain shallowness or lack of awareness of my writings on the subject before and after that book.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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DoS
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Quoted from Easy E


The only thing that intrigues me is that he posits blood type O, a recessive trait that is a deletion mutation from the A sugar, came before dominant genes A and B.



Maybe you didn't read it but they discovered an older remains of a human than the Type A human. Guess the blood type? Type O. To date the oldest blood type is now Type O and no longer Type A.

What that has to do with mutations or deletions, hard to say. But it shows how feeble "fact" can be. (and how dated criticisms of Dr. D now are since that argument is out the window according to their own rules)
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Dr. D
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DoS, I'm gonna enjoy meeting you..


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Spring
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Quoted from Dr. D
DoS, I'm gonna enjoy meeting you..




"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Easy E
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I don't have to agree with the evolutionary aspect, i still believe it not to be correct as it goes against a chief principle of biology, but everything else works well for me.  I did not criticize the heart of Dr. D's work at all, which is how different foods act in different systems.

Dr. D made a good point, there has to have been a good bit of evolution from 15 million years ago until today.

Point i was trying to make is that making enemies with fellow scientists will not help to get the work promoted.  In fact it turns people away by downing the work of other scientists, who have helped Dr. D with his work by discovering all the things they have.

Love all of you guys on this site and Dr. D!  Not trying to be an a hole.
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Easy E
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Dr. D i will read more on what you write about it, i just read in the book i have pretty much.  Apologies for being offenseive to you and much respect to your works.  The GTD has really helped me quite a bit!

Lola i will read that link you gave me.
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Spring
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Quoted from Easy E
Point i was trying to make is that making enemies with fellow scientists will not help to get the work promoted.

Real scientists would pay less attention to our ramblings here than a gnat buzzing around! I know a few personally - with all those degrees after their names, too, and we have lots of fun!!   I have posted before about how we argued with one of them an entire weekend about a certain point. He went back to his labs in Oregon, did the work and found out that we were right! He was astonished! And we were grinning!

Another one told me not long ago that they were working on an apple that would stay firm and apparently "fresh" for THREE years in storage!! As far as I'm concerned, they haven't gotten there yet!! How about those watermelons that have been made so hard for shipping that you can hardly cut them with a saw? And NOW the meat in them is sometimes about as hard as the rind! Grrrrr! That ain't good science to me! Maybe those scientists need to get out in the fields and demonstrate how to use the mess they are creating to the farmers and warn them of all the consequences if they don't do it right!! I hate to think what it is doing to us when we eat the stuff! Did anyone else see the story about a whole field of watermelons actually exploding because the farmers had used too much growth hormone? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t.....gFvryyA90TpEtMnFq_aQ
And we worry about growth hormones in livestock, etc......


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Easy E
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All scientific work should be validated and replicated.  It is a good thing.  Maybe some things will be found true, and others do not hold up.  That is how innovation occurs.

DoS, a single case does not prove the case described above, that recessive traits do not evolve before dominant traits.  I  am sure this find was a hominid, in which case, yes, it was probably O, as O became quite common in hominids walking on the ground all the time, esp in tropical areas where malaria was common
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Lola
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Dr. D
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A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Spring
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Quoted from Dr. D


Wow, wow, and more wow! Dr. D., I hope you take good care of yourself. There is still so much to do!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Lloyd
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Quoted Text
In the case of multiple sclerosis, a confirmatory study was published last year by Kerstin Berer and her colleagues at the Max Planck Institute for Immunobiology and Epigenetics in Freiburg, Germany. They showed, again in mice, that gut bacteria are indeed involved in triggering the reaction that causes the body’s immune system to turn against certain nerve cells and strip away their insulation in precisely the way that leads to multiple sclerosis.


Quoted Text
Clinical trials have indeed shown that probiotics (a mixture of bacteria found, for example, in yogurt) ease the symptoms of people with irritable-bowel syndrome, who often have slightly abnormal gut microbiomes. Whether they can cause a beneficial shift in other people is not known. A paper published last year by Dr Gordon’s group reported that in healthy identical twins the microbiome is unaffected by yogurt; when one twin was asked to eat yogurt regularly for a couple of months while his sibling did not, no change in the microbiome was seen.



Quoted Text
Yogurts are limited in the range of bacteria they can transmit. Another intervention, though, allows entire bacterial ecosystems to be transferred from one gut to another. This is the transplanting of a small amount of faeces.


Quoted Text
the microbiome is medically accessible and manipulable in a way that the human genome is not. It can be modified, both with antibiotics and with transplants. If the microbiome does turn out to be as important as current research is hinting, then a whole new approach to treatment beckons.




A few things from range of interesting ideas presented. From confirmatory studies and clinical trials to suggestions of direction for future research based on reasonable hypothesese.
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Lloyd
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http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2180-12-94.pdf

Background

The human gastrointestinal tract (GIT) comprises an extremely dense and diverse microbiota.
The GIT of an adult may harbour even 2 kg of bacterial biomass representing over 1000
bacterial species, of which majority can not be cultivated [1]. This microbiota in the large
intestine is mainly composed of Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes phyla making up respectively
over 75% and 16% of total microbes in the GIT [1]. The human intestinal microbiota has
recently been shown to cluster into three distinct enterotypes [2] and of these enterotypes,
Bacteroides and Prevotella dominated microbial communities have been reported to be
associated with long-term diets [3]. Previously, twin studies have suggested a role for the host
genotype in determining the microbiota composition [4], but the genetic host factors
potentially affecting the gastrointestinal microbiota composition are unknown to a large
extent.The mucosal layer covering our gut epithelium has an important role as the first layer of host
defences, but it also enables contacts between intestinal microbiota and the host [1,5]. The
microbial biomass in the large intestine is mainly residing in the lumen and the mucosaassociated
population differs from the lumen population [1]. There is a continuous interplay
between the mucus secretion and degradation by bacteria as bacterial metabolites have been
shown to act as signalling molecules modulating the mucus synthesis [6]. The mucus is
mainly composed of mucins, large glycoproteins containing a protein core and attached
oligosaccharides [7]. We recently observed a significant association between the blood group
secretor status (encoded by fucosyltransferase-2, FUT2, gene) and the intestinal
bifidobacteria composition [8]. The secretor status defines the expression of the ABO blood
group antigens in the mucus of secretor individuals (80% of Western population). These
antigens are expressed in the intestinal mucosal layer, and act as binding sites or carbon
sources for the intestinal microbes, thereby providing a host-specific genetic agent affecting
the microbiota composition [9,10].
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Easy E
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Quoted from Lola


Thanks.  I always avoided fatty foods for the most part!  

It is the genes that correlate with the blood type that matter, as Dr. D states in the genotype book.

A's and explorers (as do gatherers) do badly with fatty meats and certain other types of fats.  Hunters and nomads are said to not have to worry about the fat content.  Heart disease is not a risk for explorers, but A's have a higher risk when compared to O, but lesser than AB.

But all blood types risk is raised when they abuse their body and trash it i would guess.  I have seen some people abuse cocaine heavily for years and not have heart problems at all, and others that had heart attacks with moderate use in counseling (i am a counselor).

So genes, which correlate with blood type generally, and more specifically with ones genotype, determine ones risk for heart disease or any disease at all.  

I saw this video was made by Eric, that is an excellent promo looks like the documentaries i love watching on netflix!  There needs to be a movie length documentary on the blood type diet and the genotype diet.

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Easy E  -  Saturday, August 18, 2012, 10:42pm
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Lloyd
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Quoted from Easy E


Thanks.  I always avoided fatty foods for the most part!  



http://news.health.com/2012/08/17/gross-food-of-pinterest/

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Patty H
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Personally, I don't think bashing scientists, scientific studies or allopathic medicine is either appropriate or helpful.  It is the same as bashing naturopaths, chiropractors or homeopaths.  There is room on this planet for all of them and at some point in our future as we age, we may find it necessary to see an allopathic physician for treatment.  For instance, my siblings have all had bypass surgery.  This would be out of the realm of a naturopath.  One can say that following the right diet, exercising and taking the right supplements can minimize the risk but this is no guarantee.  Sometimes genetic factors come into play, such as in my family.

As for scientific studies, I am all for them.  They can help pave the way for innovators like Dr. D.  After all, as Lloyd and Dr, D point out, it was scientific research along with Dr. D's dad who helped him to form his theories on blood type, diet and wellness.  I, for one, celebrate the research as being confirmation of Dr. D's work.


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Spring
Saturday, August 18, 2012, 8:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There are two threads of thought in this conversation. And there is nothing wrong with either of them. I don't think I read where anyone was anywhere near "bashing" the scientists as the awful "bashing" that Dr. D. has had to put up with through the years. From many different sources, I might add.....Dr. D. has never, as far as I know, failed to acknowledge work that he has used to help "build" his "platform." Contrary to most of the other scientists when it comes to Dr. D's work. --Keep in mind that they don't think he is a scientist by any stretch of the imagination.

On the other hand, there are not many of us who have not been sorely disappointed in the results of "scientific" work that was supposed to help us be more healthy. There are volumes out there written by such "scientists." So when we see evidence with our own senses that something is practically working miracles in us, just expect us to be more than just a little supportive of the one who brought it all together. No one else has even come close to this level of benefit where we can be fully engaged in our day to day effort to either become healthy or stay that way - which is acknowledged by most of us.








"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Averno
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Quoted from Spring
On the other hand, there are not many of us who have not been sorely disappointed in the results of "scientific" work that was supposed to help us be more healthy. There are volumes out there written by such "scientists." So when we see evidence with our own senses that something is practically working miracles in us, just expect us to be more than just a little supportive of the one who brought it all together. No one else has even come close to this level of benefit where we can be fully engaged in our day to day effort to either become healthy or stay that way - which is acknowledged by most of us.


Thank you, spring. This is what I should have said earlier instead of the ham-handed way that I did.
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Quoted from Spring
There are two threads of thought in this conversation. And there is nothing wrong with either of them. I don't think I read where anyone was anywhere near "bashing" the scientists as the awful "bashing" that Dr. D. has had to put up with through the years. From many different sources, I might add.....Dr. D. has never, as far as I know, failed to acknowledge work that he has used to help "build" his "platform." Contrary to most of the other scientists when it comes to Dr. D's work. --Keep in mind that they don't think he is a scientist by any stretch of the imagination.

On the other hand, there are not many of us who have not been sorely disappointed in the results of "scientific" work that was supposed to help us be more healthy. There are volumes out there written by such "scientists." So when we see evidence with our own senses that something is practically working miracles in us, just expect us to be more than just a little supportive of the one who brought it all together. No one else has even come close to this level of benefit where we can be fully engaged in our day to day effort to either become healthy or stay that way - which is acknowledged by most of us.



I'm sorry Spring - maybe it was your use of quotations around the words scientists and science, all capital letters and using bold to make your points.  It read like bashing to me.  Sometime the written word falls far short of expressing sentiment when the reader is left to interpret the writer's intent behind the words.

Also, I have found my different allopathic doctors to be very supportive of the Blood Type Diet.  Interestingly enough, it is a natural healer that I have seen in the past who is the biggest opponent of the BTD, so my experience is dramatically different than yours.  Sharing with the best of intentions.


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Eric
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Quoted from Easy E
I saw this video was made by Eric, that is an excellent promo looks like the documentaries i love watching on netflix!  There needs to be a movie length documentary on the blood type diet and the genotype diet.


Thank you Easy E, really appreciated.  That wasn't no documentary, but I tell you what is (will be):

http://www.eatrightmovie.com



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cajun
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Spring,
I think I understand what you are saying. Only my Natural doctor and my dentist have agreed with me regarding blood type/diet/treatment/healing, etc. The ND took an IFHI course years ago and my dentist is really cool and believes in Integrative Medicine.
Interestingly enough, they are the only ones who have really helped me lately, along with Dr. D (SWAMI). Every other health care provider wants to shove steroids down your throat or up your nose or whatever.
I recently came upon an article ( I mentioned it on one of these threads... ) that praised "new findings; blood type does affect proper digestion, etc..." really?
Naturally, not one mention of Dr. D , his father or credit for their work.
It is one thing to reiterate and acknowledge what is already known, it is quite another to blatently copy and take the accolades!


 Ao  ISFJ   Taster   Rh+  

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"Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be." Sir Paul McCartney
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Spring
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Well, Cajun, after taking nearly a flogging from Lloyd, I think I will let Dr. D. take care of himself from now on. It isn't just now that these new "scientists" are claiming to discover "new" things and stealing other scientists' work. I read about things they are crowing about now over forty years ago!!

And I suppose after so many years of seeing supposedly scientific work that was nothing but nonsense and was done for the purpose of supporting Big Pharma's aims and ambitions, I am jaded. Totally. I may be somewhat bitter, too, because I saw my pharmacist brother, a brilliant man, destroy his health and his life with this very thing. Too sad for words....... I see people around me on the pill-popping train - one drug following another treating "side effects." I cringe.....


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Averno
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Thank you, Spring. I share your experience, as surely do many others whether knowing or not. It is frustrating. Maddening.

I think that while a healthy respect for the work of scientific community is due, the near Deification of all things scientific is a curious thing. Scientific inquiry is a human conduct after all, subject to moral, ethical, and consequential scrutiny. To what degree science benefits or harms humankind on balance is a rather tricky subject, but I think we can all agree that more vigilance and skepticism is needed in these days of "miracles and wonders".

Skepticism is healthy. It propels science forward. Contrarianism, as sometimes seen in the knee-jerk response against Dr. D's work, is not-- It is in fact contrary to forwarding science.

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paul clucas
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Quoted from Spring

Real scientists would pay less attention to our ramblings here than a gnat buzzing around! I know a few personally - with all those degrees after their names, too, and we have lots of fun!!   I have posted before about how we argued with one of them an entire weekend about a certain point. He went back to his labs in Oregon, did the work and found out that we were right! He was astonished! And we were grinning!
It cannot be emphasized too much - this kind of "discovery" needs to keep happening on a regular basis.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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paul clucas
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It nice to see the intestinal-MS theory gain scientific support.

The public confidence in medicine gets sapped by the publication of seemingly conflicting studies.  It is a culture of science journalism/education that leads people to be frustrated with "science" and "scientists."

The divisions spring from the philosophical differences of the uni-modal, western, reductionist thinking and the multi-modal, naturopathic, generative thinking.  Rather than a direct confrontation, we need to engage the “unimodalists” in constructive, even playful, dialogue.

Learning happens more easily when you are having fun.


My weight loss goal: 220 lbs.  A 6'4" dyslexic oddball: the size of a line-backer, the silhouette of Winnie-the-Pooh.
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Spring
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Quoted from paul clucas
Learning happens more easily when you are having fun.

And I really wonder if the real intent of Dr. D.'s in starting this thread was simply to have a little fun and let us know what someone else out there is having to say. My guess is that it doesn't bother him as much as it does some of us (his not being recognized) simply because he has matured far beyond that.

The problem is that we are reading nearly every day of yet another "study" that tries to disprove that taking various supplements or eating perfectly wonderful foods can possibly benefit anyone for this or that ailment. And most of these "studies" are nothing but reviews of literature, and they don't have a clue whether the literature is valid or not. There is no way that they can, or the people doing the original "studies," simply because they don't have enough people to police thousands of people to make sure they are doing what they say they are! And, of course, the one-size-fits-all makes them nothing but nonsense anyway.

It is not just in the health field that this sort of thing goes on. Reports are written all the time about innumerable subjects that cannot be depended on to enlighten people to the truth about anything. I can't help but be proud that when my husband wrote reports before he retired, aside from all the other things he did, they were never questioned and millions of dollars were spent based on them simply because they knew he did his research, and it never failed them! Too bad that there aren't hundreds of people working in government just like him!



"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Lola
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that s my cup of tea!!!! (the link posted by Dr D, on ABO/Microbiome)


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Spring
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I like Dr. D.'s note better than the link!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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