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A gene that influences empathy discovered...  This thread currently has 2,487 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 12:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat


11 out of 32 faces? Or identified 11 of the criminals?


KK, I went back over my results and actually did much better than I thought.  Here is the breakdown.

I correctly picked 12 of the college students.

I correctly picked 4 of the criminals and their exact crime, so in total I got 16 correct, not 11 as I stated in an earlier post.  I picked one assailant correctly, I picked one rapist correctly and I picked two drug dealers correctly.

I correctly picked another 8 criminals but got their crime wrong. For instance I said they were a rapist but they were an arsonist, but still I guessed 8 more of them as a criminal.

So if you are only looking at college student vs. criminal and not what crime they committed, I got a total of 24 correct.  WOW!!!

I guessed totally wrong on 8 - in other words, either they were college students and I guessed they were a criminal or they were a criminal and I guessed they were a college student.

My method was to pick the college students first.  My son is a college student so I visualized him hanging out with them or bringing them home for a meal.


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Chloe
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 3:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty, I should try this again the way you did it....looking for the good guys first and eliminating them
as criminals.  I totally forgot who I picked as good guys/bad guys anyway.  WIll give it another try.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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ruthiegirl
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 4:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm horrible at those photos. I remember somebody once posted a link to one photo of a criminal in a specific case, and all I noticed was that he was young and fairly good looking and I just felt sorrow at such a waste of life- not only the victim but the perpetrator's life was now ruined as well. Yet others commenting on the same photo called him "creepy" or just got some kind of bad feeling about him based on the look in his eyes. I'd completely missed it.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Patty H
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I'm horrible at those photos. I remember somebody once posted a link to one photo of a criminal in a specific case, and all I noticed was that he was young and fairly good looking and I just felt sorrow at such a waste of life- not only the victim but the perpetrator's life was now ruined as well. Yet others commenting on the same photo called him "creepy" or just got some kind of bad feeling about him based on the look in his eyes. I'd completely missed it.


Ted bundy was very handsome and charismatic, which was why he was so successful as a serial killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

http://www.google.com/search?q.....biw=1024&bih=512


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KimonoKat
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Impressive, Patty.

Here is what one of the scientists has to say about truth wizards...


"They [wizards] seem to have templates of people that they use to make sense of the behavioral deviations they observe." says [Dr. Maureen] O'Sullivan. So it is not a set of disembodied cues, but embedded behaviors that are consistent with each other as well as with the kind of person exhibiting them... (From E&T Magazine)

ruthiegirl, although facial recognition and zero acquaintance is a much harder skill to master, Dr. Paul Ekman (who did the study with Dr. Sullivan to identify the "wizards") teaches how to detect liars...

http://www.paulekman.com/


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 10:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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More interesting articles in making predictions about people based on looking at their face.


Predicting a person's propensity for anger by looking at faces... EFL story...

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2011/03/predicting-persons-propensity-for-anger.html

Direct link to research abstract....

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/20/10/1194

***

Personality: All in your face?   EFL story...

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2008/02/personality-all-on-your-face-cnn.html

Direct link to CNN article...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/02/22/hfh.personology/index.html


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Patty H
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 11:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Impressive, Patty.

Here is what one of the scientists has to say about truth wizards...


"They [wizards] seem to have templates of people that they use to make sense of the behavioral deviations they observe." says [Dr. Maureen] O'Sullivan. So it is not a set of disembodied cues, but embedded behaviors that are consistent with each other as well as with the kind of person exhibiting them... (From E&T Magazine)

ruthiegirl, although facial recognition and zero acquaintance is a much harder skill to master, Dr. Paul Ekman (who did the study with Dr. Sullivan to identify the "wizards") teaches how to detect liars...

http://www.paulekman.com/


Maybe I have a future in law enforcement  



Revision History (1 edits)
Patty H  -  Monday, December 26, 2011, 2:35am
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Patty H
Sunday, December 25, 2011, 11:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Impressive, Patty.

Here is what one of the scientists has to say about truth wizards...


"They [wizards] seem to have templates of people that they use to make sense of the behavioral deviations they observe." says [Dr. Maureen] O'Sullivan. So it is not a set of disembodied cues, but embedded behaviors that are consistent with each other as well as with the kind of person exhibiting them... (From E&T Magazine)

ruthiegirl, although facial recognition and zero acquaintance is a much harder skill to master, Dr. Paul Ekman (who did the study with Dr. Sullivan to identify the "wizards") teaches how to detect liars...

http://www.paulekman.com/


PS:  I bet I could have done even better if I had talked to them or seen a video of them talking to someone else.  I think most of us would do better under those circumstances, don't you. KK?


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KimonoKat
Monday, December 26, 2011, 12:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H


PS:  I bet I could have done even better if I had talked to them or seen a video of them talking to someone else.  I think most of us would do better under those circumstances, don't you. KK?


Better? I would think so, but I'll have to ponder that.

The thing is, there is still a lot of science to support profiling at zero acquaintance.  Not that this could (or would) be used in a court of law, but fascinating none the less.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Goldie
Monday, December 26, 2011, 4:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Would not EMPHATY mean identify with?  I do not as I am not a criminal.. I am trusting.. I think that a good thing, but it does allow for making the same interpretation error over and over..

I grew up with mom having her back* to me because of her work,...  I think I never learned to depend on looks, rather on the voice..  I still don't naturally look people in the eyes.. I find it disquieting to stare at the eyes.. my facial expressions are not reflecting of what I feel unless I am happy when laughter comes easier.. my facial muscles are not ready friendly, even though I feel perfectly friendly..  

I also have no need* for others to look at me when I talk.  I used to have issues with others finding it disquieting when I would talk on the fly while walking away.. some where offended, eventually I learned that some really needed to be looked at.. others where intimidated by my looking at them, .. I also found that my 'look' felt like a stare to some..depending on how secure they felt.  

I wonder what I would 'look' like in pictures.. I do know that my own pictures have changed over the years, when I was 20 I was innocent, the smile showed it,, then as age is creeping up it is a different smile. interpreting my own face would really be interesting**.. it might explain me to me.. ha ha  

** I think I feel differently / less shure of my self and it relects..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Patty H
Monday, December 26, 2011, 10:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat


Better? I would think so, but I'll have to ponder that.

The thing is, there is still a lot of science to support profiling at zero acquaintance.  Not that this could (or would) be used in a court of law, but fascinating none the less.


Yes it is interesting that some people have this ability without ever meeting or hearing the person talk.  I was interested in her story on the guy who killed his wife but went on TV and said he did not.  She was able to discern his body language and responses to questions and determine that he was lying.  That is what I am referring to when I say most of us would do better.


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Chloe
Monday, December 26, 2011, 4:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Goldie
Would not EMPHATY mean identify with?  


Yes, you're correct...Empathy literally means to understand and share the feelings of another...but for me personally, I can feel empathy for those who are suffering or in need of my attention, but am just not able to identify with sociopathic tendencies of a person and certainly not without seeing
body language or hearing someone speak to me...  I have no point of reference to a sociopath...no association with even looking at a criminal... It seems so foreign to me.  Perhaps I'm just a trusting person.  Yet, I have sensory perceptions regarding meeting someone. I can feel negative energy surrounding someone...I can sense arrogance in the way someone delivers their message. I can tell if a salesman is lying to me...() and I can sort of judge how a person makes me feel from first impressions.....I can"read between the lines"
so to speak and judge whether sarcasm is just being light and playful or does this person carry
some sort of grudge or harsh feelings towards me.  

I've never met (that I know of) a real criminal.  OK, the 20 year old kid who lives across the street
from me was arrested this past summer and pulled over by a local cop who searched and found a pound of marijuana sitting right there on his front seat. His car reeked of pot....He was stoned...
His windows were all blackened....illegal where we live. This guy isn't what I'd call a criminal...I know him.  He was the type of kid who was always ringing doorbells, asking if he could mow
lawns, shovel walkways after a snow storm.  He saved his money and bought himself a snow
blower.  He was enterprising.....OK, maybe a bit too enterprising.  Started selling pot to high
school students.  If not caught, would he have become a big time drug dealer?  Potentially he
didn't look like it....but to be 20 years old, not have a job and make money selling pot...who
knows?

But what's the difference between someone who starts out clever and enterprising and just
goes over the top?  I'm talking about a 20 year old blonde haired blue eyed good looking
young adult who just figured out it takes less physical effort to sell pot than to mow a lawn..

He's a criminal?  Most of the guys' photos we saw were young....and I'm sure like my neighbor
started out with one act of illegal behavior.  Rapists I'd put in a completely different category...
but still, how would one identify with the potentiality for anyone to commit a crime....find
it lucrative.....shoplifting.....leading to breaking into homes....then buying a gun.  A life of
crime is often learned....from a peer group....gangs, whatever.

Still, as much as I believe I have empathy that borders on sympathy....I do not have empathy
for a criminal.

And then there is another thing....Our projections about criminals based on where they live...
how they dress, how tough they appear....If I had to walk through a blighted area where gangs
of guys hung out on the street, just looking tough and scary, I'd be believing they all had the
potential for criminal behavior.  Sometimes guys on motorcycles look like tough guys to me.
Are any of them criminals?  And how to pick out those who might be from the most who aren't?

Looks are deceiving....I never judge a book by its cover.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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KimonoKat
Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chole,

Having the empathy gene doesn't mean (imho) you extend that empathy to dishonest individuals, criminals.

Those are the ones that are often lacking a conscience.

Sharing my interest in lie detection (via the Eyes for Lies website) with the best of intentions.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Chloe
Monday, December 26, 2011, 11:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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KK..I'm confused.  Are we saying that those who did well on this lie detection test potentially
have the empathy gene?  Just trying to understand how the gene might relate to doing well on
this test..... I totally know that you're sharing your interests with the best of your
intentions and I was really just answering based on what I thought this gene meant...

Was doing well on this test more of an intuitive issue?  Even though I read how some people
arrived at their conclusions....It seems like an education unto itself...being able to discern
good people from bad intent people....something that might be taught in a psychology or anthropology class..


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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C_Sharp
Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 8:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
Are we saying that those who did well on this lie detection test potentially
have the empathy gene?


No correlation was presented between those that score high on the lie detection test and their levels of empathy or oxytocin.

People just chose to talk about lie detection in this thread, it is not related to the original topic. (Which included whether a person was trustworthy, but not whether they could recognize criminal history from looking at images of faces.)

For those interested in the original study that formed the initial basis of the thread, here is a TED talk:

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin.html


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Chloe
Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp


No correlation was presented between those that score high on the lie detection test and their levels of empathy or oxytocin.

People just chose to talk about lie detection in this thread, it is not related to the original topic. (Which included whether a person was trustworthy, but not whether they could recognize criminal history from looking at images of faces.)

For those interested in the original study that formed the initial basis of the thread, here is a TED talk:

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin.html


Thank you SO much for clearing this up for me.  I couldn't see a correlation to the original
topic and continued to try to see that there might be.......which confused me totally...


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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j232
Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 10:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For a fascinating read, pick up "People of the Lie," by M. Scott Peck.  You may know him as the author of "The Road Less Traveled," a more popular and widely known book which is also fantastic.

Scott Peck was a psychiatrist with decades of experience as a practitioner of psychotherapy (died in 2005 I believe).  Look him up on wikipedia for more info.  

In "People of the Lie," he talks about individuals who have come in to see him for psychotherapy who he would eventually characterize as "evil."  This is a very profound statement for Peck as he is very humanistic and believes that everyone has the capacity to change for the better when given the help they need...except for "evil people."  These people have no ability to be introspective or recognize that they have pieces of themselves that need improvement.  When this is suggested to them (in any form, not just in therapy, i.e. a casual conversation), they become extremely defensive and respond with intense malice.  They are extremely narcissistic, feel absolutely no sympathy or empathy, and will cause a mile of loss in anther's life if it means an inch of gain in theirs'.  Sometimes, they seem to enjoy causing pain and distress in others' lives.  They have almost no capacity for growth and/or maturity, and seek to hinder others in their growth/maturation processes as much as they possibly can.  

They, above all else, do whatever they must to keep up an image as a likeable, "good" person...Peck states that this is the only reason that these people even come in for psychotherapy in the first place; because engaging in psychotherapy is the socially acceptable thing to do in their situation, and not doing so would tarnish their image, i.e., if their child is acting out and an authority recommends family therapy...disobeying this recommendation would be seen as "bad parenting" by their peers, so they go to uphold their image.

So much more to it than what I wrote here, it really is an amazing read.  The last quarter or so of the book talks about evil in establishments/corporations/organizations.

Also read the Road Less Traveled!
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