Patty H, here is a link to a story EFL did on profiling criminal faces.

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2011/03/criminals-look-different-from-non.html

There is one she did on trying to determine which men were rapists that I'm still trying to find...

It looks like some of you have redefined "empathy" as TELEpathy or something. Would you like to start a thread on ESP or telepathy? That would be more appropriate than derailing the thread.

Quoted from san j

It looks like some of you have redefined "empathy" as TELEpathy or something. Would you like to start a thread on ESP or telepathy? That would be more appropriate than derailing the thread.

As far as I can see on this thread, no one has made any reference to telepathy or anything of the sort.

If you are referring to my comments about "Eyes For Lies," she is NOT a psychic and has never claimed to be one.  This is an ability she has since birth that has been tested by scientists in a laboratory.

Hi, KK.
People are posting about the ability to determine criminality by looking at a photo of someone's face.
Maybe a thread on whether or not so-called physiognomy-interpretation is genetically-enabled?

In any case, it's another track.

Quoted from san j

Hi, KK.
People are posting about the ability to determine criminality by looking at a photo of someone's face.
Maybe a thread on whether or not so-called physiognomy-interpretation is genetically-enabled?

In any case, it's another track.

Again, this is about an ability that has been scientifically tested in a laboratory.  It's not a psychic ability and has never claimed to be one.

I say this with the best of intentions. Please consider reading up on truth wizards aka "naturals" and how they have been scientifically tested in laboratories, by scientists.  Naturals are born with this ability, which to me says it is quite possibly related to genes.

The confusion of Lie-detection and empathy is a matter of faulty definition.

Empathy signifies the co-experiencing / identification of the feelings-emotions of another individual. For the work of, for instance, psychotherapists, it is seen as an essential trait. This is not necessarily in order to "profile" the patient, however.

If the word "empathy" has taken on some Brave New World meaning, I wouldn't be surprised, however, and ... what a shame - The heart is impoverished.

So carry on with the empiricizing of the human spirit if you wish. This is where the NF (mbti/Keirsey) gets off this train.  

Quoted from san j

This is where the NF (mbti/Keirsey) gets off this train.  

Buh-bye.  I find this thread quite interesting, myself, and I like the direction it's going, even if it's not strictly related to the classical definition of empathy.  Reading body language is a fascinating topic.

Quoted from KimonoKat

Patty H, here is a link to a story EFL did on profiling criminal faces.

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2011/03/criminals-look-different-from-non.html

There is one she did on trying to determine which men were rapists that I'm still trying to find...

KK, I will definitely check this out - too busy to do it now    I have been thinking about my mother's strong ability to determine if a person is worthy of trust and I am thinking it is less about body language and more about conversation.  I think my understanding of human nature is probably the same.  This makes your link all that more interesting to me because maybe my mother and I are picking up on non-verbal body language as well and never really thought about it.  I'll let you know my results when I have a chance to go through the website in some detail.  Whatever it is that my mother has, it is quite uncanny and definitely can be a blessing or a curse.  Unfortunately she was not able to discern this information in her own marriage, so that is interesting as well.

I couldn't find the test, just adverts for the course.

Quoted from TJ

I couldn't find the test, just adverts for the course.

If you go to the link in EFL story, it takes you to the story she's talking about. Scroll down to the end and you will see the faces.

Here it is directly.

http://www.psychologytoday.com.....fferent-noncriminals

Thanks!

Quoted from KimonoKat

If you go to the link in EFL story, it takes you to the story she's talking about. Scroll down to the end and you will see the faces.

Here it is directly.

http://www.psychologytoday.com.....fferent-noncriminals

I started to look at the faces and make my own decisions, but I found myself feeling really frightened and I couldn't go on.  

Never mind all that was said.. the articles and all the links make me nuts.. to much to go to.. give me something I can put a grip on and then discuss.. if I have to go all over the place I lose the original text.. it goes all over the place..

BUT .. I can see where actually considering a person including myself as on object to be studied is interesting.. I can see where in some situations I can be animated, interested while in others I can be outright boring, and sort of short on brain cells.  A lot has to do with how I feel .. safe to be myself, or dependent on what others might think.  I am glad to be my self, but sensitive to the influence of others who think they are better or smarter or whatever.. Life has made me gun shy.. a stupid way to feel no doubt, but it feels more and more like it being the way of life (age as on excuse).   Age is not the factor but lack or diminished opportunity and the like, other people being boring as they have nothing to say and no longer care to have a discussion.  Life seems to go that way.  after a while only politics is important, as it argues this or that point, but when one accepts the fact that we have little to say about any of life.. then conversation can shut off quickly.

Looking at people as objects to see if what one 'feels' is real, is interesting.. I am in the process of meeting someone I have mixed feelings about (tainted by news media or whatever) and I am waiting to see how I will react / if the person is for real.. time will tell.  But interestingly I am looking to SEE signs of this or that (flaws or honesty), which generally I don't really spend much time on doing..  taking people at face value.. but sadly experiences over a life time might make me more cautious, listless, degrading, plain bored or afraid..  All not good things.. and yet IF i wanted to change that, I would have no idea on how to do it.. how to change is difficult..

I find the fight with food is discouraging .. so discouraging that over time it is tainting all else in life.. not shallow, but a thread throughout.. fear based, stupid based, looking for a vitamin that might work.. or maybe take 5HTP for a while.. that I think helps with inner security, the hormones seem to create backbone where it is missing ... seems maybe I really do have need for it comes this time of year.. did the same last year, and it helped...  

I think where a doctor said that 80% of jails could be emptied if everyone ate according to his allergies, the same might be true if the hormones could be in better sync / or easier tested.. it would be great to see how many feel 'uneasy' just because their hormones are not right.

On the other hand - homeliness or faces/body symmetry is most important.. I think plastic surgery should be made available to all who might need it- much (unhappiness) could be avoided..  

I guess 10 right.  I guess 3 to be criminals who weren't, and missed 6 who were.  Very interesting!

If you tried it, what features seemed to distinguish the criminals?  I found that the lip shape and around the eyes were the most telling.

Quoted from TJ

If you tried it, what features seemed to distinguish the criminals?  I found that the lip shape and around the eyes were the most telling.

I recommend reading the comments in the EFL story to see other people's experience in taking the test. Here is a direct link:

http://js-kit.com/api/static/p.....From%20Non-Criminals

The comments are in reverse order (oldest at the bottom/last) and I also recommend paying attention to EFL comments.

I have a good bit of empathy. It is important to know that empathy is not sympathy.

Empathy means you can put yourself in someone elses shoes, but you may not sympathize with them necessarily.  Some people bring about their own troubles.  Others are born into very bad conditions that are out of their control.

I can empathize with criminals like jeffery dahmer.  He knew he was sick and wanted to be stopped.  Yet he would kill.  To sympathize with him would not be good.  The man would never be able to live a good life and would never "get better." It is unfortunate.  Perhaps he may have had a true conversion had he not been killed.  It is tough to know.  

That is just an example i'm not trying to start a thread about jeffery dahmer.  Maybe he should have eaten right for his type (no pun intended). It may have had an effect on his mental state.  

Quoted from Easy E

Maybe he should have eaten right for his type (no pun intended). It may have had an effect on his mental state.  

If he was type O...

I saw arrogance in many of these faces...a smug look...but I often picked non criminal faces as
criminal.  Got about 8 correct.  Not a great score.  Couldn't find one consistent criteria to be able to base my judgment and determine it was the face of a criminal vs someone who was simply not
looking pleasant.  It was also an uncomfortable feeling to be judging people based only on their
faces.  Not seeing body language, not talking to them.

I found this to be way more difficult than it seemed it would be.

I guessed six totally incorrectly.  Either I thought they were criminals and they were not or I thought they were not criminals and they were.  I did not do well with what types of crime the criminals committed, but I did guess that they were criminals.  I found looking at photos more difficult than assessing someone in person.  I tend to look at body language and a person's eyes.

There were four rapists, which gives the men a 4-points lead from the start, according to the article!

I guessed a total of 11 correctly.

But is having a sixth sense for intuiting criminals actually empathy?  I'm a  very empathetic person...
I seem to know and feel what others want and need....I guess the opposite of an empathetic person
might be a narcissist...a person who never sees beyond themselves...But in all reality, picking out criminals by their facial expressions...as Patty said, "I guessed"....I guessed too although it was
rather random as I kept trying to figure out what a criminal face actually looked like...and did worse than Patty did. Does a criminal's face always look sinister?

Many of those men's faces had a hardened look....And yet, a sociopath, a might very well have an angelic face, be utterly charming with twinkly eyes and still be a rapist. Con artists are charming and would think nothing of ripping someone off..I still don't know how to say "yes" or "no" and point my finger at a true criminal just by my first impression of looking at their photograph.

Quoted from Chloe

But is having a sixth sense for intuiting criminals actually empathy?  I'm a  very empathetic person...
I seem to know and feel what others want and need....I guess the opposite of an empathetic person
might be a narcissist...a person who never sees beyond themselves...But in all reality, picking out criminals by their facial expressions...as Patty said, "I guessed"....I guessed too although it was
rather random as I kept trying to figure out what a criminal face actually looked like...and did worse than Patty did. Does a criminal's face always look sinister?

Many of those men's faces had a hardened look....And yet, a sociopath, a might very well have an angelic face, be utterly charming with twinkly eyes and still be a rapist. Con artists are charming and would think nothing of ripping someone off..I still don't know how to say "yes" or "no" and point my finger at a true criminal just by my first impression of looking at their photograph.

I recommend reading more at the EFL web site to get a better understanding of her skills set, and what it is she "sees" in a photograph, or what clues she picks up by watching someone speak.  If you check in and read the comments, you will also see how others have learned from her when she shares her skill.

Quoted from Patty H

I guessed a total of 11 correctly.

11 out of 32 faces? Or identified 11 of the criminals?