Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register


Main Forum Page  ♦   Latest Posts  ♦   Member Center  ♦   Search  ♦   Archives   ♦   Help   ♦   Log In/Out   ♦   Admins
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

BTD Forums    The Library    Journal Club and Literature Review  ›  Criticisms: BTD not scientific*
Users Browsing Forum
Baidu Spider and 2 Guests

Criticisms: BTD not scientific*  This thread currently has 4,982 views. Print Print Thread
3 Pages « 1 2 3 » All Recommend Thread
Patty H
Monday, November 21, 2011, 10:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from Maria Giovanna
Patty You 'd be right  if not for IAP and stomac acid and pepsine higher in Os than in As, these are the A issue with a lot of meat


Yes, I understand and agree with this but we are discussing the criticism of the BTD regarding the theory of whether the O blood type is oldest or the A blood type is oldest.  Some people believe that A is oldest.  Did you read the previous posts?  My position was only that some people who defend the BTD say it does not matter whether O or A came first.  I believe it is integral to Dr. D's theory and cannot be passed off as an argument that does not matter because if A is oldest, they would eat more like cavemen than the agrarian societies that evolved once the herds were hunted out.  Hope that makes sense, Maria.  


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 25 - 65
Patty H
Monday, November 21, 2011, 10:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS


I disagree. Today lies are ok, and confronting them is not. At no point will I be ok with that. It is a problem in every facet of our lives; believes mean more than simple fact. The opposite means it comes to morals where it is unethical to differ on - the problem promoting it.

Ridicule does not have to mean the "poo poo on their head" but rather a good laugh and disregard, to continue on with whatever is being worked on/discussed.  


To each his own, DOS.  Maybe when I was younger things would have been different, but I no longer want to expend the energy on things I cannot change  


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 26 - 65
DoS
Monday, November 21, 2011, 11:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
Quoted from Patty H


Yes, but Dr. D goes to great length to describe O's as the oldest and were the hunter/gatherers, A's as the agrarians, whose blood changed to type A to accommodate the change in lifestyle once the herds were all hunted out and people began living together in communal groups and growing their own crops, etc., etc.  You cannot separate which blood type came first with his theory on what one should eat as it is the central axis on which his theory rests in ER4YT.


Then I would disown ER4YT (when I read it I never got the impression that it was anything more than an anecdote). I never tell people about the backdrop story of bloodtypes and diets. It is utterly unimportant.

If Dr. D based his recommendations for bloodtype diet on his pet theory - that he is more educated on than most people - then I guess we can all just be very thankful the rest of his work is based on science instead of "guess and check".
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 27 - 65
Patty H
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 12:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS


Then I would disown ER4YT (when I read it I never got the impression that it was anything more than an anecdote). I never tell people about the backdrop story of bloodtypes and diets. It is utterly unimportant.

If Dr. D based his recommendations for bloodtype diet on his pet theory - that he is more educated on than most people - then I guess we can all just be very thankful the rest of his work is based on science instead of "guess and check".


Disowning and calling his theory "an anecdote" and "guess and check" in is first book, which was probably his most popular book is an interesting option for you, but I don't see how you can pick and choose what is relevant or important to YOU!  His theory and his subsequent theories are based on his scientific understanding that blood type O is the oldest.  Even the genotypes, in his most recent book, are relevant to blood type.  In other words, an A can not be a Hunter or a Gatherer, which would be considered the oldest of the genotypes as well.


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 28 - 65
Sahara
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 2:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Quoted from DoS


I disagree. Today lies are ok, and confronting them is not. At no point will I be ok with that. It is a problem in every facet of our lives; believes mean more than simple fact. The opposite means it comes to morals where it is unethical to differ on - the problem promoting it............


Well here is my take on it:  blood type theory isn't for everyone.  Those who can't/won't do the work themselves to prove it don't deserve it.  Maybe they need to wander the rest of their lives or go here and there seeking help.  This diet seems to attract people who have already been searching for answers.  A lot of people aren't like us.  I have heard also that As were first on other boards but these very same people who argued with me, really both As and Os since we are the dominant blood groups, retreated back in to "science" even though all the Os said they were on Atkins and the As were all horrified at ditching grains or having to exercise every day.  If they want to spread lies why not let them.  The As can keep having acid reflux and the Os can go on antidepressants and anti anxiety medicine, it's really their choice.  People have had 15 years to learn about blood type since it was first introduced to the public.  The concept apparently just doesn't resonate with some people and that is OK.  But no the science part of it is beyond most people's understanding since most people aren't scientists.  It's really just pseudo intellectualism with most people, actually very common in my generation who likes to tear everything apart mentally.  Point this out to someone ie "you're not a scientist" and it means nothing.  It's a pointless joust, might as well do something else.  
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 29 - 65
Lola
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,280
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
Quoted Text
The mutations which produced the ABO alleles are ancient, but the A and B genes were in scarce supply prior to 25-50 thousand years ago. Their gradual increase in number was a result of the forces brought about by neolithic changes including the greater lethality of pandemics and communicable diseases which worked against type O.



''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
Logged
Private Message Private message YIM YIM Reply: 30 - 65
DoS
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 3:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
Quoted from Patty H


Disowning and calling his theory "an anecdote" and "guess and check" in is first book, which was probably his most popular book is an interesting option for you, but I don't see how you can pick and choose what is relevant or important to YOU!  His theory and his subsequent theories are based on his scientific understanding that blood type O is the oldest.  Even the genotypes, in his most recent book, are relevant to blood type.  In other words, an A can not be a Hunter or a Gatherer, which would be considered the oldest of the genotypes as well.


1. Dr. D'Adamo to my knowledge does not posses a time machine. His accumulated information, and conceptual knowledge lead him to this opinion. If you search anywhere in the criticisms of his work when discussing the idea he states it is a matter of opinion that differs, not facts as other people would like you to believe. Why are the opinions? Because none of them where alive when it all went down.

2. His work on what food to eat has nothing to do with chronological order of bloodtype appearance. It doesn't matter if Type O blood came from whales, Type A blood came from aliens in a distance galaxy, and Type B blood came from demon hell spawn - Type O's still have problems with the wheat germ lectin, Type A still have less IAP to digest fatty acids, and Type B blood are still predisposed to nitrogen balance problems.

3. I believe in a the BTD/GTD, but the one I believe in is backed by science, even if it is not a double blind study, backed, practice. Where Dr. D'Adamo gets information from outside his own work I search for and find all over the place in journals. I can not on my own come to any better conclusions that he already has - my understanding is not even in the same reality. What I don't do is follow a diet that is based on a matter of opinion on irrelevant information to my health.

4. Genotype's (phenotypes) are not an accumulation of information based on chronological discovery. They are what they are called, phenotypes (GenoType is just the pseudo-pragmatic name), which BTD did not fully account for but started to in LR4YT. It has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter/Gatherer societies predate agriculture, when it comes to a Type A blood not being a Hunter/Gatherer. The Genotype names are just monikers for ideas that suit the phenotypes; not phenotypes Dr. D'Adamo wanted to apply a bloodtype to. All of the studies on Type O still apply to both GTD1 and GTD2; but by differentiating the phenotypes between the Type O we can work on treating the genes to prevent the predisposed problems that each phenotype is more likely to be subject to, than just doing a blanket technique with the BTD.

Please though by all means use the chronological ideas of bloodtype and phenotype as speculations, opinions, of why people may respond to certain foods. Just pleas stop confusing them for the true science behind this revolutionary work. (example, Type O have more IAP, a study done in the 1950s, so it makes since they can breakdown and transfer fats across the mucosa in the intestines, in the proper form, yet mice when they are given a serum to reduce IAP, gain more weight than control mice on a high fat diet)

If I was Dr. D, I would actually consider having the humility to apologize for representing a matter of opinion in his first book as potentially being more than that, or maybe just admit it was a mistake because of all the flack he has received; since it belittled the phenomenal work he has been doing. Perhaps a new print of it would be appropriate, if it all continuing with printing that particular book.

Revision History (2 edits)
DoS  -  Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 6:03pm
DoS  -  Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 3:40am
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 31 - 65
Patty H
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 1:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS


1. Dr. D'Adamo to my knowledge does not posses a time machine. His accumulated information, and conceptual knowledge lead him to this opinion. If you search anywhere in the criticisms of his work when discussing the idea he states it is a matter of opinion that differs, not facts as other people would like you to believe. Why are the opinions? Because none of them where alive when it all went down.

2. His work on what food to eat has nothing to do with chronological order of bloodtype appearance. It doesn't matter if Type O blood came from whales, Type A blood came from aliens in a dHis theory and his subsequent theories are based on his scientific understanding that blood type O is the oldest.istance galaxy, and Type B blood came from demon hell spawn - Type O's still have problems with the wheat germ lectin, Type A still have less IAP to digest fatty acids, and Type B blood are still predisposed to nitrogen balance problems.

3. I believe in a the BTD/GTD, but the one I believe in is backed by science, even if it is not a double blind study, backed, practice. Where Dr. D'Adamo gets information from outside his own work I search for and find all over the place in journals. I can not on my own come to any better conclusions that he already has - my understanding is not even in the same reality. What I don't do is follow a diet that is based on a matter of opinion on irrelevant information to my health.

4. Genotype's (phenotypes) are not an accumulation of information based on chronological discovery. They are what they are called, phenotypes (GenoType is just the pseudo-pragmatic name), which BTD did not fully account for but started to in LR4YT. It has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter/Gatherer societies predate agriculture, when it comes to a Type A blood not being a Hunter/Gatherer. The Genotype names are just monikers for ideas that suit the phenotypes; not phenotypes Dr. D'Adamo wanted to apply a bloodtype to. All of the studies on Type O still apply to both GTD1 and GTD2; but by differentiating the phenotypes between the Type O we can work on treating the genes to prevent the predisposed problems that each phenotype is more likely to be subject to, than just doing a blanket technique with the BTD.

Please though by all means use the chronological ideas of bloodtype and phenotype as speculations, opinions, of why people may respond to certain foods. Just pleas stop confusing them for the true science behind this revolutionary work. (example, Type O have more IAP, a study done in the 1950s, so it makes since they can breakdown and transfer fats across the mucosa in the intestines, in the proper form, yet mice when they are given a serum to reduce IAP, gain more weight than control mice on a high fat diet)

If I was Dr. D, I would actually consider having the humility to apologize for representing a matter of opinion in his first book as potentially being more than that, or maybe just admit it was a mistake because of all the flack he has received; since it belittled the phenomenal work he has been doing. Perhaps a new print of it would be appropriate, if it all continuing with printing that particular book.


To each his/her own, DOS.


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 32 - 65
Patty H
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 2:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from 14442


Well here is my take on it:  blood type theory isn't for everyone.  Those who can't/won't do the work themselves to prove it don't deserve it.  Maybe they need to wander the rest of their lives or go here and there seeking help.  This diet seems to attract people who have already been searching for answers.  A lot of people aren't like us.  I have heard also that As were first on other boards but these very same people who argued with me, really both As and Os since we are the dominant blood groups, retreated back in to "science" even though all the Os said they were on Atkins and the As were all horrified at ditching grains or having to exercise every day.  If they want to spread lies why not let them.  The As can keep having acid reflux and the Os can go on antidepressants and anti anxiety medicine, it's really their choice.  People have had 15 years to learn about blood type since it was first introduced to the public.  The concept apparently just doesn't resonate with some people and that is OK.  But no the science part of it is beyond most people's understanding since most people aren't scientists.  It's really just pseudo intellectualism with most people, actually very common in my generation who likes to tear everything apart mentally.  Point this out to someone ie "you're not a scientist" and it means nothing.  It's a pointless joust, might as well do something else.  


Sahara, I am 100% with you on this.  I have a good friend who is an O who insists that there is no science behind the BTD.  He says he has done his extensive research, whatever that means and he is totally unconvinced.  The funny thing is, however, is that he believes in all the high protein diets out there now so essentially he is eating for his type - except for the fact that he cheats constantly and has about 50 pounds to lose and never seems to drop an ounce.  I just keep chugging along, following my diet, getting thinner and more healthy while he continues to spout his opinions but can't seem to put his money where his mouth is!  !!!  The proof is in the pudding, as they say  


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 33 - 65
Dr. D
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
Kwan Jhang Nim
Posts: 4,162
Gender: Male
Location: Connecticut
Age: 58
Quoted Text
You cannot separate which blood type came first with his theory on what one should eat as it is the central axis on which his theory rests in ER4YT.


ERFYT was a very simplified representation and was never intended to be the technical type explanation. There is still ample evidence, however, that because of infectious disease resistance and genetic drift, type O probably greatly outnumbered the other blood groups until the neolithic age, even if the molecular  mutations that produced them are far older. That's what the book was really trying to describe.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 34 - 65
Amazone I.
Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 4:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 16,334
Gender: Female
Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 56
btw.... Dr.D's so called *theories* are all underlined and sustained  by my old teacher Prof.Dr. Gerhard Uhlenbruck...  
I am in constant contact with him and he even begun to be enchanted of P.D's work generally, especially the trouvailles combined with epigenetic issues.... haaa... I hope he's able to give an official statmenet soon...... be patients... all will be done soon ....


MIfHI K-174
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 35 - 65
Patty H
Thursday, November 24, 2011, 3:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS
Some studies.

First, different levels of IAP
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16412386

Type A neutralizes IAP
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7449139

Response in humans is probably the same, but for example this would explain why people with less IAP benefit from lower fat diets

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/292/5/G1439.full

If you get the gist, IAP works in conjunction with other things, such as enzyme CD36, to transfer fat across the mucosa. The thing is that what is being transfered can be different structures of protein, different lengths rather. In other words it decides what type of fat makes its way into the blood.

No science? Animal Manure

There is more than enough reason for Type A people to eat low saturated fat diets. You want more? I got more. Piss on no science.


DOS, here is another question I have had for some time that no one on the forum has been able to answer.  It has been speculated on this forum that non-secretors are an older, less complex form of blood type while secertors evolved in order for the body to deal with a host of bacteria and disease that evolved along with man.

However, according to Dr. D and other experts, non-secretors have about 20% of the amount of IAP as secretors, giving them a disadvantage when it comes to the digestion of meat.

See the link below and the quote from Dr. D:

http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Intestinal_Alkaline_Phosphatase_(IAP)

Quoted Text
It has been estimated that the serum alkaline phosphatase activity of non-secretors is only about 20% of the activity in the secretor groups.


Quoted Text
These findings suggest that the link between group O individuals and adaptation to cholesterol-containing foods in the diet (such as meats) reaches its greatest accommodation in group O secretors. Conversely, group A non-secretors would have the lowest levels of intestinal alkaline phosphatase and the greatest difficulties in handling dietary fat.


Quoted Text
With more sensitive techniques for demonstrating alkaline phosphatase activity, it was found that small amounts of this enzyme are present in the serums of 10 to 15 per cent of group A secretors, and a smaller number of nonsecretors. The serums of approximately 70 to 80 per cent of Group O and B secretors contain this enzyme, in much larger quantities than in the Group A secretors or nonsecretors. Group AB persons are intermediate in percentage of positive persons and in quantities of phosphatase in serum.


Quoted Text
The concentration of the intestinal phosphatase is lowest in the serum during fasting and rises after ingestion of fat, reaching a peak at about seven to eight hours. This increase is most marked in Group O and B secretors, but it is detectable in most people. The concentration of intestinal alkaline phosphatase in human thoracic-duct lymph rises after a fatty meal, and presumably most of the intestinal phosphatase enters the blood by way of the lymphatic system. Schreffier and Langnall et al measured the alkaline phosphatase concentration in the mucosa of the human small intestine. The former found no correlation between alkaline phosphatase levels and ABO groups or secretor type, but the latter observed that Group O and B secretors had the highest mean concentration of alkaline phosphatase, Group A secretors had the next highest concentration, and nonsecretors had the lowest amount; in that study, however, there was a marked overlap between the three groups in the range of enzyme activity, and the differences observed were much smaller than those found in se­rum. In view of these data it seems likely that the ABO and secretor genes influence the rate at which the intestinal phosphatase enters the blood, or its catabolism, rather than its synthesis in the intestine.


Three questions:

1.  If non-secretors are an older form of blood type, wouldn't they be better able to digest meat since meat would have been a staple in their diet?

2.  If non-secretors only have 20% of the IAP that secretors have, why do our SWAMI's give us any meat at all?  Why is an O non-secretor not on a diet more similar to that of an A secretor?  (My SWAMI is from Dr. Nash and yet I still get three servings of red meat per week.)

3.  In fact, in LRFYT, O non-secretor caucasians get more servings of meat per week than O secretors.  This has always baffled me, given our limited ability to digest meat with our much lower levels of IAP.  Why would we not be considered pesectarians or vegetarians?

I am asking these questions because I have truly been seeking the answer to them for some time.  It appears to me that you have done your homework and I am hoping maybe you can help me understand these questions.  Asking with the best of intentions  


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 36 - 65
DoS
Thursday, November 24, 2011, 6:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
Are they older? It is just an idea (propagated by me). You need to remember that all the phenotypes (genotypes) would of most likely evolved through secretor genes. That means the phenotypes we have are more suited for secretor genes than non-secretor genes. If it was the other way around I would suspect we would have different phenotypes that were not as prone to disease as nonnies, and yet also probably have more non-secretors - maybe it would even be a dominate trait. Explorers are a good example of people that while often nonnie, are in such good health (with quirks perhaps) no one would exactly suspect them of being one. They may of evolved much more strongly with the nonnie gene, allowing them to be a higher functioning group naturally as nonnies. I know that unfortunately there are lots of Explorers with not-so-great gene expression these days but they are less often the mesomorphorphic, independent person, the phenotype is capable of, these days. I am sure the modern world has thrown in its monkey wrenches (toxins).

Just imagine if all our phenotypes were built around non-secretors (FUT2 gene). Secretors could be the unhealthy ones! Although I would suspect a different structure of society. Genetic expression through evolution is probably more powerful than some antigens floating around in fluids. Imagine if Crohn's patients autoimmune system was so self-regulating that they never had Crohn's or autoimmunity, just one diarrhea flush, because their phenotype was so evolved at killing foregoing invaders without becoming autoimmune; in contrast a secretor might just have to live with it if it got past the piddly antigen in the fluids, which only protects against antigen binding shaped things.

IAP helps with processing fats, not necessarily, specifically, meat. Remember Type A have less stomach acid (teachers/warriors), which probably plays as big of a role as IAP in the whole meat situation. Type A get cardiovascular disease often, and not digestive troubles from meat (all the Paleo people that die early, that are Type A are an example since they would not do Paleo if they where having black tar blood stools). Also there are different levels of different enzymes besides IAP. Lastly every bloodtype tends to host significantly different enteric bacteria. For bloodtype O lets say the bacteria that they naturally have is able to work with meat, yet push out the bad ones a Type A would let populate on a meat diet; or something to that effect.

The farther back in time the last fatty meat was, so non-secretors eating low fat meat in large quantities actually makes a lot of sense.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 37 - 65
Patty H
Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS
Are they older? It is just an idea (propagated by me). You need to remember that all the phenotypes (genotypes) would of most likely evolved through secretor genes. That means the phenotypes we have are more suited for secretor genes than non-secretor genes. If it was the other way around I would suspect we would have different phenotypes that were not as prone to disease as nonnies, and yet also probably have more non-secretors - maybe it would even be a dominate trait. Explorers are a good example of people that while often nonnie, are in such good health (with quirks perhaps) no one would exactly suspect them of being one. They may of evolved much more strongly with the nonnie gene, allowing them to be a higher functioning group naturally as nonnies. I know that unfortunately there are lots of Explorers with not-so-great gene expression these days but they are less often the mesomorphorphic, independent person, the phenotype is capable of, these days. I am sure the modern world has thrown in its monkey wrenches (toxins).

Just imagine if all our phenotypes were built around non-secretors (FUT2 gene). Secretors could be the unhealthy ones! Although I would suspect a different structure of society. Genetic expression through evolution is probably more powerful than some antigens floating around in fluids. Imagine if Crohn's patients autoimmune system was so self-regulating that they never had Crohn's or autoimmunity, just one diarrhea flush, because their phenotype was so evolved at killing foregoing invaders without becoming autoimmune; in contrast a secretor might just have to live with it if it got past the piddly antigen in the fluids, which only protects against antigen binding shaped things.

IAP helps with processing fats, not necessarily, specifically, meat. Remember Type A have less stomach acid (teachers/warriors), which probably plays as big of a role as IAP in the whole meat situation. Type A get cardiovascular disease often, and not digestive troubles from meat (all the Paleo people that die early, that are Type A are an example since they would not do Paleo if they where having black tar blood stools). Also there are different levels of different enzymes besides IAP. Lastly every bloodtype tends to host significantly different enteric bacteria. For bloodtype O lets say the bacteria that they naturally have is able to work with meat, yet push out the bad ones a Type A would let populate on a meat diet; or something to that effect.

The farther back in time the last fatty meat was, so non-secretors eating low fat meat in large quantities actually makes a lot of sense.


I have bolded some of your response and refer to them below:

You need to remember that all the phenotypes (genotypes) would of most likely evolved through secretor genes. That means the phenotypes we have are more suited for secretor genes than non-secretor genes.  So you are saying we went from the stronger expression of genetics to the weaker expression instead of the other way around?

IAP helps with processing fats, not necessarily, specifically, meat. Remember Type A have less stomach acid (teachers/warriors), which probably plays as big of a role as IAP in the whole meat situation.  Yes - interestingly enough, I am a nonnie, but I also have SNP's on some of my genes that regulate cholesterol metabolism, so being a nonnie and having these SNP's seem to be a double whammy.  What I don't understand is what I can properly break down and digest, given my individual challenges and my family history. I seem to be somewhat of an unusual O.  How does stomach acid come into play, given the multiple challenges I face?

I am from a family of O's and A's, all with cardiovascular disease (except for me, to date).  I do not know if my siblings are secretors or non-secretors, but given the fact that I have SNP's on my genes that regulate cholesterol metabolism, I can assume that at minimum my O relatives may either be nonnies as well, have the same SNP's I have, or both.  Whether these SNP's are a direct result of being a non-secretor or if they are independent, I have no idea.  I still am confused about my diet and the generally prescribed diet of an O nonnie.  Much has been made of the benefit of IAP, but I have not found a lot of other information on the forum as to why O nonnies or nonnies in general should eat any meat at all.


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 38 - 65
DoS
Friday, November 25, 2011, 3:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
Quoted from Patty H

You need to remember that all the phenotypes (genotypes) would of most likely evolved through secretor genes. That means the phenotypes we have are more suited for secretor genes than non-secretor genes.  So you are saying we went from the stronger expression of genetics to the weaker expression instead of the other way around?


nonnies? Nonnies perhaps have, in a way. If every one stayed a nonnie they would of still evolved, but I would suspect they would be healthier today. Although with a lack of diversity in immune system who knows; maybe humans would of been eliminated.

I would just stick to what Dr. D recommends, and exercise. You don't have digestive problems do you? I wouldn't worry about it unless something actually feels wrong. I mean don't eat super fatty red meat, eat lean stuff, and you should be fine. You might have less IAP but your metabolism probably burns fat and protein quickly - especially if you don't eat much grains like nonnies prefer.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 39 - 65
Canadj
Friday, November 25, 2011, 6:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 105
Gender: Female
Location: Canada
Age: 32
Quoted from Dr. D


ERFYT was a very simplified representation and was never intended to be the technical type explanation. There is still ample evidence, however, that because of infectious disease resistance and genetic drift, type O probably greatly outnumbered the other blood groups until the neolithic age, even if the molecular  mutations that produced them are far older. That's what the book was really trying to describe.


Yes, this is what I was getting at.  Obviously ER4YT was designed for those who don't have a science background, but be simple enough that it was understandable.

The other criticism that these reviewers had was that there were no clinical trials, only anecdotal evidence given in the form of stories.  I was thinking that these were only to give examples of how it works in real life.  I'm pretty positive that if there were no clinical trials, then there wouldn't be an institution that teaches it and prepares doctors to become practitioners in it.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 40 - 65
Amazone I.
Friday, November 25, 2011, 7:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 16,334
Gender: Female
Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 56
here also we have to remember, awareness is the word for all........

becoming aware about our uniqueness..... becoming aware why things are not compatible with us means today to be strong and not accepting all the hoghwash whitecoated or so called therapists of the nomenclatur called scientifique agreements of the society try to make you believe and follow their advices.... if I wouldn't have acted likewise I'd be dead since a longer time...... this is explorerhood..... and I follow my inner wisdom called lr4yt  


MIfHI K-174
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 41 - 65
Patty H
Friday, November 25, 2011, 6:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS


nonnies? Nonnies perhaps have, in a way. If every one stayed a nonnie they would of still evolved, but I would suspect they would be healthier today. Although with a lack of diversity in immune system who knows; maybe humans would of been eliminated.

I would just stick to what Dr. D recommends, and exercise. You don't have digestive problems do you? I wouldn't worry about it unless something actually feels wrong. I mean don't eat super fatty red meat, eat lean stuff, and you should be fine. You might have less IAP but your metabolism probably burns fat and protein quickly - especially if you don't eat much grains like nonnies prefer.


I don't have any digestive issues whatsoever, but I do know that I have trouble breaking down dietary fat.  In fact, as an APO E4/3 genotype, I am at a great disadvantage when it comes to breaking down dietary fat.  The author of The Perfect Gene Diet recommends that people with this genotype eat a high carb, low fat diet.  Not that I would base my entire diet on one gene, but the genes related to heart disease seem to express themselves fairly strongly in my family.  Being a non-secretor and having SNP's on genes that regulate the metabolism of fat has given me a lot of food for thought given current my diet.

I do have a good metabolism and I exercise regularly.  I also don't eat a lot of grains, which is exactly the opposite of what is recommended for people with the APO E4/3 genotype.


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 42 - 65
DoS
Friday, November 25, 2011, 8:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
How do you feel? You could always get your cholesterol and LDL/HDL levels checked to make sure they are not seriously out of control. Go for low fat meats (lamb & buffalo naturally are). You can even order meat with low fat ground in when it comes to beef.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 43 - 65
Patty H
Friday, November 25, 2011, 8:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS
How do you feel? You could always get your cholesterol and LDL/HDL levels checked to make sure they are not seriously out of control. Go for low fat meats (lamb & buffalo naturally are). You can even order meat with low fat ground in when it comes to beef.


I feel great - my total cholesterol (222) and LDL (139) are somewhat high, but my HDL is high and my triglycerides are low, so my ratios are excellent!


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 44 - 65
DoS
Friday, November 25, 2011, 8:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,972
Gender: Male
Location: Montana
Age: 28
Go live...
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 45 - 65
Patty H
Friday, November 25, 2011, 9:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,319
Gender: Female
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Quoted from DoS
Go live...


That's the plan!  



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 46 - 65
radioron
Saturday, May 18, 2013, 6:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Winter: Hidden potential.
Posts: 5
If blood type A came before blood type O, it would tend to validate the theory of Creation rather than evolution. In Genesis 1:29, God commanded Adam and Eve to be vegans.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 47 - 65
yaeli
Saturday, May 18, 2013, 6:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,548
Gender: Female
Location: Yerushalayim, Israel
Age: 66
Well, this is what God recommended to them.


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 48 - 65
Lola
Saturday, May 18, 2013, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,280
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
welcome radioron  


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
Logged
Private Message Private message YIM YIM Reply: 49 - 65
3 Pages « 1 2 3 » All Recommend Thread
Print Print Thread

BTD Forums    The Library    Journal Club and Literature Review  ›  Criticisms: BTD not scientific*

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread