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For All The Grain Free and Weight Loss BT Dieters  This thread currently has 1,596 views. Print Print Thread
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tessieUK
Monday, September 5, 2011, 10:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
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Really informative and well explained talk on why calories in-calories out (or eat less and move more) formula for weight loss is flawed, and the effect of carbohydrates (esp grains) on bodys fat storing responses. Came across the other day on a health blog and thought I would share-let me know your thoughts  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzA-E8zb-Ds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToGt_GYCUmY&feature=related
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Possum
Monday, September 5, 2011, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Cheers Sounds interesting...I can't "watch" stuff on my computer - anyone care to or have time to post a short summary? Ta
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Susana
Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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A good looking Dr. He debunks the "calories in calories out" myth. Blames hormone issues, especifically insulin, for weight gain and proposes an interesting concept of exercising. Only 12 minutes a week is enough to increase your strenth and stamina. The 12 minutes of weight lifting have to considerable push your limits and one must allow 5-10 days rest for the body to adjust. Acording to him, too much exercise can have negative impact on health. Cardio health for him is a result of healthy insulin levels via reduced carbs so he does not consider it necesary for heavy cardio workout for weight loss or good cardio health.


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Susana  -  Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:42pm
Susana  -  Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 10:36pm
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Loops
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 1:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Explorer
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hmm, well I don't actually agree with how he starts off these videos.  He claims that hunter-gatherers would not have access to many carbs - which is not the case for many tribes.  There are plenty of hunter-gatherers who had/have a diet based on starchy tubers and/or fruit.  The Kitavan are one.  Also think of the tropics - seriously, a lack of carbs??? I think not.  Maybe if you live far North or South.
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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 1:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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But in general hunter-gather societies gets fewer calories from carbs
- for me the real evils are not starchy veggies or fruit but white grains and sugar. ( an crappy modern vegetable oils)


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Loops
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 5:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yes but he is saying 'go out and gather and see what you find' in the nearby woods.  REally unrealistic.  Of course you are not going to find anything but a few berries and leaves.  That is not representative of h/g tribes.  But then he spouts on about eating lean meats - well that is terrible advice - if all the carbs you are eating are berries and leaves, you are going to need more than lean meat to survive (fatty meat - have you seen the layer of fat that sits on top of a grass-fed cow? - it is really thick!!).
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tessieUK
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 6:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes I agree with you about fatty meats Loops-if I get a lamb chop I will eat a good portion of the white fat layer round the edge.

I don't think the Dr is saying only eat what you find in the foods-I think he's using that idea to illustrate that carb heavy diets-especially from grain sources- historically (i.e pre agriculture) would not have existed.

So many BT dieters have found from experience-it's what you eat, more importantly than how much of it-that affects weight gain and loss. I ate some wheat on sunday (accidentally-my grandma gave me some sweet potatoes that were covered in flour.) I ate only a small bite-probably less than a quarter of a teaspoon of flour. Yet as well as all the usual dreaded 'wheat belly' symptoms over past few days-I have noticed that I gained about 1/4-1/2 inch fat on my belly. I did my sprint intervals Monday-and normally I can see my belly is slightly flatter when I wake up the next day-but this time it looked a bit fatter. I concluded from this that the wheat in my system was blocking the effects of Human Growth Hormone or whatever bio-chemical processes it is that burn body fat. So for me this matches up to what this guy is saying about fat storage being a hormonal response.
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O in Virginia
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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White potatoes and refined white starches were not introduced into people's diets until quite recently (as Henriette notes...it's the cr@ppy modern refined foods).  Surely Hunter/Gatherers would have eaten anything edible that they found or foraged...including whatever starchy roots.  Starchy roots (e.g., taro) that need to be processed are for the most part avoids on my swami.  I suppose explorer types had to eat on the run and didn't take time for foods that needed to be processed even minimally.  They must have eaten whatever they could catch or pick then and there.

I didn't know that grass fed cows were so fatty.  When I buy grass fed cuts of meat they are usually very lean, and they have to be eaten rare because they become tough as shoe leather if you over cook them.  Maybe leanness is not the reason for that.  I would think cows fed on soy and corn would be much fattier.
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Amazone I.
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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O in V.. now I understand why I always eat while on the run ..ahem perhaps vice versa ...


MIfHI K-174
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O in Virginia
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Amazone I.
O in V.. now I understand why I always eat while on the run ..ahem perhaps vice versa ...


  "Raw and wriggling" as Gollum would say.  Ewww...  
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Loops
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yes they cut off the layer of fat from the cow before it is sold - the difference is the fat is all on the outside from grass-fed (naturally fed) cows - instead of being intramuscular fat found in grain-fed beef.  I know because living in Chile and visiting Brazil a lot I have seen first-hand.  When you go to a bbq in Brazil (not here, but the cows eat grass the same) you queue for the meat and they have the whole side of cow there.  And there is always this huge layer of fat on the outside.  You can choose whether or not to be served the meat with/without the fat.  It is a HUGE myth that grass-fed beef is lean - it IS - when you buy it already trimmed.  But I am sure h/g people would have eaten everything - including the fat.

An interesting thread so whilst on this matter of fat on meat...

So why does Dr D here recommend lean meat; because I have read that in his books - choose leans meats etc.  Why does he say that?  Everything else I have read points to animal fat (from well-raised animals) as being far superior for health to say olive oil.  I do use both but I really get that feeling from his books that you shouldn't eat animal fat.  I'm curious as to why.
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Loops
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Anyway that aside - I think it can be very confusing for somebody watching that video and thinking oh wow all carbs are bad and I should eat nothing but lean meat, vegetables and berries.  I mean that's what came across to me in the video.  He definitely blames carbs (EXCESS CARBS...??...) as making people fat.  I didn't get at any point him making the distinction between a banana (or even a bunch of bananas) and a packet of cookies.  This type of thing makes people go to extremes with their diet.  Like I did.  And now I am kind of stuck in that place; which is another story, but I'll put it this way - I wish I hadn't gotten so extreme with my diet like cutting out most carbs for 5 years!!  Euthryoid syndrome etc....
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Loops
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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so this is what I'm reading right now - he claims it is not insulin that makes people fat -

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html
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O in Virginia
Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 11:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Loops, that is interesting about the grass fed cows' fat being on the outside.  I don't know the answer to dietary fats and weight loss.  When I did Atkins diet years ago, I lost weight but my total cholesterol went up.  After doing BTD/Swami for almost one year now, my cholesterol has gone down, which I attribute to losing the grains.  But I didn't eat grains on Atkins either.  Perhaps eating the RIGHT grains/carbs, and the right portions of them, on an individual basis, is the answer.  As they say here...there is no one size fits all answer.  I haven't checked out your link yet, but I will.  Interesting topic.  
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Sahara
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks, will watch!

I actually watched this video on a website called The Fit Rich Woman:

http://www.fitrichwoman.com
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Beachgirl
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 12:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Haven't watched the clip yet, but just dropped bread & grains a few days ago & lost the 3 lbs. I gained the first week of BTD/ GTD.  I think it depends on how well your body processes them, and for a type O like me, it seems if it's in veggie or fruit form, the carb is more easily tolerated.  If it's in breads or grains, I gain, bloat & crave, crave, crave more!


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again!
Goal weight acheived!!  Woo Hoo!!!!
DH of 18 yrs. O+, DS 17yo O, DS 5yo O, not sure on the boys' RH status.

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tessieUK
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 1:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
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Yep thats where I found it Sahara I don't think FitRich Lady knows about blood type diet but im sure she is an O
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Henriette Bsec
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 10:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Loops
so this is what I'm reading right now - he claims it is not insulin that makes people fat -

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html


Well I would read this as well
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2011/08/i-have-read-good-calories-bad-calories.html




ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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Loops
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 12:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Explorer
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I used to read hyperlipid's blog a lot - in the days when I was doing the same diet - lots of heavy cream, pork, a few organ meats etc.  Until I started to gain back all the weight I lost on low carb by still doing low carb the exact same way....And not feeling very happy either.

But of course that aside - he also makes good points.  I don't understand some of what is written there.  AS usual I have an inkling that all this comes down to sugar and refined carbs like wheat vs some fruit/starchy veg.  But nobody is saying that.  They are saying carbs do make you fat/don't make you fat.  In a very round-about way anyway.
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Susana
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 1:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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As a little sidetrack of the tread...

Quoted from Loops
I wish I hadn't gotten so extreme with my diet like cutting out most carbs for 5 years!!  Euthryoid syndrome etc....


I'm not into low carb or low fat, I am into Dr. D'Adamo and individuality, but, interesting you seem to put the emphasis on low carbs as responsible for your ailments. I would bet on the excess of wrong foods as culprit for them.

Loops, thank you for your link... I quite enjoy a good, detailed, debate on the reasons for obesity. I just wish most opponents to Dr. D. would bother understanding his work and then debate it on proper grounds, with the respect he deserves.

BTW, the writer of Loops recommended site endorses the same food plan, albeit more carbs, as the Dr. in Tessie's recommended video. See Wed. March 17 2010 entry: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/paleolithic%20diet or "Mark's Daily Apple" under favourite links. I saw other videos of Dr. McGouff, Tessie's recommendation, where he specifially recomends the "PrimalBlueprint diet".


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Susana  -  Thursday, September 8, 2011, 1:45pm
Susana  -  Thursday, September 8, 2011, 1:42pm
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Loops
Thursday, September 8, 2011, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Explorer
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hi Susana -
I would agree with you apart from I get the symptoms of low thyroid eating no avoids - the first time round I did low carb I wasn't eating any dairy, or pork, and basically just sticking to meat/fish/veg - usually spinach and broccoli and a few added fats (olive oil mostly, but occasionally butter).  I ate 3 big meals a day and was Always. Craving. Carbs.  At 4pm mostly.  And not crappy foods.  I mean fruit.  Craving fruit.  I lost weight and built muscle, but was always feeling deprived.  And tired.  And finally cold.  So that didn't last for more than a year.  I finally caved and went on a fruit binge for about a month, at which point I then started craving meat again.

As soon as my carbs drop below a certain amount - sure I lose weight, but I feel very tired.  Even when I get keto-adapted I am always on on the low end of energy.

But yes, the second time around I was eating lots of dairy and pork and pork fat.  And actually dropped the same amount of weight and felt great.  But eventually that caught up with me and I regained the weight without going off plan and started to really feel bad.

So for me, going too low carb even without avoids (and I mean below about 100g a day minimum) doesn't make me feel good.  BUT.  I do lose weight.  I am just very very bad at gluconeogenesis I think.
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