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Victoria
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 5:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from connect14

Typically when we find ourselves being compulsive, there is a truth we know on a subconscious level that we are struggling to avoid.  In trying to outrun said truth, we bury ourselves in compulsive eating, compulsive drinking, compulsive worrying, compulsive working, working out, etc.... It's all a dash to escape.  The thing that is ironic about the whole situation is that when one stops running and avoiding and instead practices accepting, the compulsion will abate and the need to control will disintegrate, as well.  It's usually not the truth that is so painful, as it is the avoidance of it.  When we stop and get still and just accept everything as it is, we center and that very chaos that you say you are trying to avoid goes away on its own.  The external chaos will always be there, but when you learn to get still and centered, miraculously, everything seems calm.  Acceptance of every moment really is the key.  Avoidance is what leads to compulsive behaviors.  


Well, I think you just went right to the heart of unhappiness in the fast lane.  Your insight is so simple, and so true.  It makes me want to close my eyes and take a deep breath.  Thank you very much.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Whimsical
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 2:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I love connect14's post about compulsion - over many years I have drastically reduced my own compulsive behaviours by facing what is causing me anxiety.  For me, the most bothersome thing is lack of control, but in reality nobody really has control!  Life is much more peaceful when you accept this.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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JK
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 7:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Cheryl, pretty much what I was thinking too. Epsom salts it is, then.

Thanks Lola, I'll dive into the archive links later. I'm sure there is good info there for a first time flusher.

OK, I am going to do this. I just have to figure out when it is going to be the most convenient. For those of you who have emailed me, let's talk soon. Maybe we can do this this together in a few days or over next weekend...
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Victoria
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from Whimsical
- - - over many years I have drastically reduced my own compulsive behaviours by facing what is causing me anxiety.  For me, the most bothersome thing is lack of control, but in reality nobody really has control!  Life is much more peaceful when you accept this.


I have this contemplation which has served me well through the fires of transformation.  Whenever I feel that I am being led by my fear to run and run and work myself into a state of anxiety trying to get away from whatever seems to be the "source" of my misery......

I imagine a big scary dragon chasing me, breathing fire down my neck.  I take a deep breath................STOP..........SMILE........turn around, facing my own dragon and take a flying leap, jumping down it's throat.

In doing this, I have claimed the demon as my own making, and by entering my own creation, I have destroyed it's power over me.




Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Victoria  -  Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:13pm
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Lola
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
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Victoria you should write a book!!! lol


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Laura P
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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The problem is figuring out what your dragon is



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Connect
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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You know, the concept seems so simple, and it really is, but yet it's something that we as human beings, don't do.  Society has taught us to stick our heads in the sand and not be mindful by disappearing in TV, video games, drinking, eating, blaming others, codependency, etc....

We don't take the time to just stop and realize that everything that happens to us is part of the experience.  All of it.  So there is no good and bad.  There are no mistakes.  There is no need to control, because every experience is valuable.  When you realize this, it becomes so much easier to surrender and just watch things from a witness perspective.  From a nonjudgmental perspective.  When we take the judgment off of ourselves, the compulsions become less and less.  Just the awareness, the consciousness of something makes the demon seem so much less than it is.  

A step further than even becoming aware is accepting.  For example:  there are some days when all I seem to want to do is EAT.  This may be because I'm hormonal, sad, worked out excessively and my body needs more nutrients, etc...Whatever the reason, when I have days where all I seem to want to do is eat and eat, I can go down two paths:

1)  I can get upset with myself and tell myself I have no "control" over my eating, that I'm going to get "fat" if I eat too much, why can't I be 100% compliant all the time, etc....

or

2)  I can take a breath, take a step back and say to myself, "Isn't it interesting that I am so overly interested in food today?  Look how upset I get with myself over this.  Isn't it intriguing to note how judgmental I am of myself when I hit these places?"

It takes the judgment away and just allows me to accept that I'm not ALWAYS happy.  I'm certainly not always perfect.  BUT I am always in an experience.  And when we start valuing the experiences, we start to feel OK about ourselves.  We start to value those moments when we aren't "OK" because they teach us so much.  We stop needing to run away when we realize that it's pretty amazing to be 100% completely imperfect.  

And that thing called "control" takes care of itself.  And so do the compulsive behaviors.  Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance....  


INFJ
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resting
Saturday, February 4, 2006, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
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these words seem 'right' then I run into the wall called 'comfort' and notice that many others are here too ... saying, 'Won't you join us?  We have the BTD and we're right!'

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 2:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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Laura,

Looking at information on taurine there is some indication that taurine deficiency could be involved in low body temperature. I know you have that problem too. I am going to give it a try and see what happens.

Here is one site reference: http://www.nutros.com/nsr-02015.html


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Laura P
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 2:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............me too, that is very interesting, thanks



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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JK
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Taurine is essential for phase II detoxification in the liver. I added it a long with glycine, arginine, and methione, and with B vitamins to the other supps I was already taking (zinc, molybdenum, etc), a few weeks ago. I also use fulvic acid.

http://www.liverdoctor.com/03_detoxpathways.asp This is succinct but I have even more detailed info if you're interested.

I am doing a lot right now so it is hard to ascribe the gains I am making with improving my health to any one "therapy" (supplemental regimen, antifungal Rxs, thyroid glandular and homeopathic mix, ferreting out the food allergies, etc). Perhaps it is more of a "critical mass" issue and I am finally doing enough right things to push the pendulum in the right direction.
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Laura P
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 2:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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normally I have found any affect is synergistic anyways so in someways it is not important to isolate one thing



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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JK
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 5:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The question does come up when it is time to consider dropping one thing or another... perhaps due to inconvenience of it all or expense! This would be at a point before complete health has been restored (I am assumiong that complete health, if possible for me after my history, would mean I would only need to follow BTD principles and would not need any extra measures). I certainly hope I don't have to do all this the rest of my life!

But for now, critical mass is on my side. Now, how do I get the pendulum to swing FASTER?

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Victoria  -  Sunday, February 5, 2006, 5:35pm
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Victoria
Sunday, February 5, 2006, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
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That's great to hear Judi.  It's wonderful to start actually seeing progress, and may it continue!!

It seems like when you are ready to cut some things out, you can just experiment in reverse.  Stop one thing for a couple of weeks and see how things change, and then try something else.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Victoria  -  Sunday, February 5, 2006, 8:09pm
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type_O
Monday, February 6, 2006, 5:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Laura,

I can relate to having uncertainty with one’s health.  I wish you all the best in your quest to heal.

I’ve read a lot of good advice in this thread.  The one thought I had was that I’ve heard that the things that we are allergic to, find a way to tell our bodies to crave them.  So maybe your cravings are for protein types which really are harming you?  

Best of luck with these problems.
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Connect
Monday, February 6, 2006, 5:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Quoted from JK
Thanks Cheryl, pretty much what I was thinking too. Epsom salts it is, then.

Thanks Lola, I'll dive into the archive links later. I'm sure there is good info there for a first time flusher.

OK, I am going to do this. I just have to figure out when it is going to be the most convenient. For those of you who have emailed me, let's talk soon. Maybe we can do this this together in a few days or over next weekend...


Hi Judi,

One thing I wanted to mention with salt water flushes (especially Epsom salts)...is that they have a tendency to make candida flare up.  It's pretty harsh on your intestines, and the salt water tends to strip everything from them.  Make sure you double up on probiotics when you do the salt flushes.


INFJ
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JK
Monday, February 6, 2006, 6:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Oh geez! Thanks for the info. I do take 50 billion CFUs a day since I am trying to reclaim realestate! Hopefully the salt water will clean out some gunk and allow the antifungals to work even better. I don't know if this is the right thing to do now but I already regret not doing it months ago.
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Don
Monday, February 6, 2006, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
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Quoted from connect14
One thing I wanted to mention with salt water flushes (especially Epsom salts)...is that they have a tendency to make candida flare up.  It's pretty harsh on your intestines, and the salt water tends to strip everything from them.  Make sure you double up on probiotics when you do the salt flushes.


I would be curious to read the information you have on this. I wonder if they are saying that candida would only flare up if no probiotics are taken after the flushes?

I certainly have never experienced this, but I think I always take probiotics afterwards. In fact, I always feel better after a liver flush and my colon and bowel movements seem healthier.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Monday, February 6, 2006, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Don,

I think it may just be important to stock up on probiotics after the flush.  My information comes from my own personal experience (yeast presented after the last two salt water flushes), as well as similar information from my naturopath, nutritionist, and from Julia Chang.  I asked her about utilizing Epsom Salts as opposed to uniodized sea salt with my flush, and she recommended using the regular salt unless you absolutely needed the Epsom salts for a bowel movement.  Her reasoning was that the Epsom salts are harsh and tend to scrape everything out.  

My personal experience seems to validate this, but I would imagine it may be different for everyone depending on your state of intestinal health and the amount of probiotics you supplement with.  For my next flush, I am going to take a hefty dosage of probiotics and see if yeast presents itself again.  

Yeast aside:  I have always felt better after a flush and feel as though my body regulates better afterwards.


INFJ

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Connect
Saturday, February 11, 2006, 10:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Whimsical
GALLBLADDER/LIVER FLUSH (according to Heidi):

I never used the preparatory herbs Julia suggests for softening the stones and clearing the liver. At the time of my first flush, I considered myself in fine physical health, and ready & willing to take the leap directly. This approach is not for everyone, and each of us must decide how to approach the flush. However, my experience bore out how simple, harmless and useful this procedure is, and I was glad to find that the flush itself is remarkably effective on its own.

You need not take off work to do it - you could juice-fast on the Thursday & Friday (even with light snacks if needed - veg & fruit only, no fats), do the flush Friday night, and then you've two days at home for the 'clear out' and to ease back into your usual menu.

PolyFlora is a must in the follow-up - take it twice daily on the day after the flush and for two weeks afterward, to help things return to normal.

ON THE DAY OF:
Only fresh (granny smith) apple juice if possible. Eat lightly if at all. Stop eating and drinking at 2:00. then, water permitted, but sip it.  *Optional: Make Epsom salts (3 T to 3 cups water – 3/4 cup per dose, add some lemon or pear juice if desired)

6:00 p.m. take first dose of Epsom salts.
8:00 p.m. take second dose.
Squeeze out 1 1/2 cups of red grapefruit juice, mix with 1 cup olive oil
9:30, take 1/2 the grapefruit/olive oil mix;
10:00, take the other half and LIE DOWN immediately on right side with right knee pulled up. Try to stay that way for at least 20 minutes – go to sleep if possible.

For nausea during the flush, have some room-temperature seltzer with a good dash of black cherry concentrate on your bedside table -- sip it until the nausea abates.

NEXT MORNING:
Immediately on rising, *take third dose of Epsom salts. Follow with lukewarm lemon water.  Last dose, two hours later. Follow with lukewarm lemon water.

Two hours after that, you can eat. Stick to vegetable soup and juices. Lots of soft stuff including veg broth or juice, no heavy protein or fats. Next day, nearly back to normal eating... just take it easy on the protein & fats.

That's it! Malic acid is available in supplement form for type O nonsecretors who wish to have the benefits of the apple juice without the pesky lectin. Since I now do this, at most, twice yearly, I have so far gone ahead with the organic fresh-juiced apples. I don't recommend it, but it's what I've done. Since I seem to be passing no stones at all anymore (just a bit of sand), I'm thinking of ditching the apple juice for the next one. stay tuned!

It may take several flushes, say one every two months over half a year, to do the job for you - but you'll feel the difference yourself, and be able to plan from there! It's certainly a great self-help tool, and may be what you've been looking for.


Hi Kate,

I notice that this flush is a lot different than Julia Chang's.  (I think hers only recommend 1/2 c olive oil taken once and salt water only on the morning after.  Have you tried both or only Heidi's version?  I'm gearing up for my first flush and wondering which to follow.



INFJ
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Whimsical
Sunday, February 12, 2006, 2:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hi connect14,

My first flush was according to Julia's instructions - I bought some Gold Coin Grass from her, didn't use Epsom salts, etc and I did not have a good experience.  I could not fast for long and could not hold down the oil/juice mix at all, so I'm not sure that I got great benefits.  However, this could be due to my nervousness about the flush and it being my first time!

I have done Heidi's version (as quoted) 3-4 times and I prefer it.  I feel more comfortable with the flush in general now, but this version is also less strict with the fasting (you could do just light veggies the whole time, although I think liquids only is best) and I feel the Epsom salts really help open things up and get things moving!  Julia says the Epsom salts are only for those who fear getting stones stuck, but I still feel like they help me.  I don't have stones (or they are very small).  

I was very apprehensive the first time I did this, but once through I realized that there is nothing to fear.  Some people think this flush is too harsh or fasting is not good for the body, but really, our bodies are made to withstand much tougher conditions than this!  Eating whenever you want all day everyday is actually probably less natural than periods of fasting, physiology-wise.  This is a 2-3 day renewal process and is done using only liquids and foods (no artificial substances, unless you count the Epsom salts).  Nothing used is harmful to the body, in my opinion.

Another benefit I found from fasting is that it can make you feel very in tune and focussed.  It is hard to describe this feeling, but I found it very beneficial.  It also helps you appreciate food more and realize at the same time that you can be comfortable with hunger.  Suzanne wrote a great blog on fasting that you might want to read.

Finally, I think you need to think about your objectives.  This flush is not about total body or digestive detox, it is about the gallbladder, primarily, and releasing stagnant bile and any stones that have formed and are interfering with the proper functioning of this organ.  That is why the fasting and subsequent "shocking" of the gallbladder with the oil/juice is necessary - you need to stop the organ, then force it to start again (and dilate - hence the Epsom salts) to push out the stones.  When the gallbladder is working properly (ie: playing its full role in digesting fats), the liver is under less stress and can therefore function better.

I think this is worth doing regularly, but there are also many other means by which to detox the entire digestive system, such as the protocols on this site.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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Sunday, February 12, 2006, 8:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Hi Kate,

Thanks for the reply.  I've fasted many times, so the fasting poses no issue for me whatsoever.  I don't really even think of 2 days of apple juice as "fasting" to be honest.  

I spoke with Julia, and she also said she doesn't recommend the Epsom salts.  However, I think I'd prefer to use them over the uniodizied salt.  Last time I tried just the plain salt, it didn't work remotely.  

I am planning on doing this primarily for my liver as opposed to my gallbladder.  I guess I'm wondering if, for my first liver flush, it might be better to do Julia's way since it only recommends 1/2 the amount of olive oil as Heidi's version.

However, if I were going to do this Julia's way (fasting 2 days, 1/2 c olive oil/lemon, salt water next morning).  Well, if I wanted to incorporate the Epsoms instead of the regular salt, how much would I use?  Also, do you think I will get a full benefit doing Julia's version?

Many thanks Kate.


INFJ
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Whimsical
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Hi connect14,

If you want to incorporate the Epsom salts, just integrate them before/after the oil mixture as per the instructions.  3 Tbsp to 3 cups of water to make 4 3/4 cup doses.  Drink 2 doses (2 hours apart) before the oil/juice and then the remaining 2 doses the next morning (2 hours apart).  

Did Julia say that the Epsom salts can replace the salt water the next morning?  I actually just do lemon water the next morning, much more pleasant after the Epsom water!

I think that Julia is more of an expert in these things than I am, so I am sure her method is beneficial.  She incorporates more herbs, etc (many of which are optional), so perhaps for someone with gallbladder/liver issues, that is a better route?  I don't have any issues really, I just wanted a flush to clear up any stagnant bile, etc.  I like Heidi's version because I've been able to successfully complete it a few times and I don't need any extra herbs, etc.

If this is your first time, perhaps it is best to follow her instructions to the letter and see what you get.  You can always tweak the flush and do it again!  


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Sunday, February 12, 2006, 4:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Hi Kate,

Julia did not recommend the Epsom Salts at all.  She said they were too harsh on the body.  I don't really have any issues either, just trying to clear estrogens from my body mainly.  Julia didn't believe I was in too bad of shape.  My primary interest in the Epsom Salts is making sure everything comes OUT that needs to.  As I said before, last time I tried just plain sea salt, nothing came out.  

She recommends the fasting, followed by the 1/2 c olive oil/lemon mixture the night of the flush.  No salt water until Day 2.  Wake up:  drink salt water and lemon.  

That's it.  It's seems pretty simple compared to Heidi's.  Just 2 steps (plus the fasting).  

I'm just a bit nervous.


INFJ
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