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Too much protein  This thread currently has 9,403 views. Print Print Thread
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resting
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 9:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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no Victoria ... polyamine production can come from any number of different sources - methionine is but one.  All flesh foods do have a super-abundance of methionine.  If a food that inhibits OCD is eaten with the food with high methionine, polyamines will not be formed ...

I know very little about sulphur and inflammation.  U. Erasmus says that sulphured aminos and essential fatty acids together form a membrane permeability to allow oxygen into a cell.  Just how this ties to inflammation ... even whether this information is necessary, I do not know.


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 9:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Laura, I just read this.

In cases of extreme stress. Dr. Wood said, the higher brain seems to protect the gut by sending signals to immunological mast cells in the plexus. The mast cells secrete histamine, prostaglandin and other agents that help produce inflammation, he said. "This is protective. If an animal is in danger and subject to trauma, dirty stuff in the intestines is only a few cells away from the rest of the body. By inflaming the gut, the brain is priming the gut for surveillance. If the barrier breaks, the gut is ready to do repairs". Dr. Wood said. Unfortunately, the chemicals that get released also cause diarrhea and cramping.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Laura P
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 9:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Interesting Don,

John, I'm not nixing anything, just trying to work through this



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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JK
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 11:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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[quote=Victoria]I have always wondered why that sulfur-smelling gas appears sometimes, and usually it's when I'm having problems with inflammation, either digestive or joint related. quote]

Hmmmm. I had not made this connection until reading this thread but had wondered like Victoria, why the occaisional smelly gas when usually none, especially when there is no obvious difference in my diet. When this happens, I usually have a few pimples break out and am in more pain too.

A few weeks ago I added supplemental taurine, arginine, glycine, methionine to my already "complete" supplement regimen to encourage phase II detox in my liver. If I am understanding John correctly, taking taurine with the methionine should prevent polyamine problems, right? But I eat a lot of animal protein too... I upped the amounts of these amino acids a few days ago and now I am dealing with  a few pimples on my jawline and last night, smelly gas... related?? Coincidence??

I am very tempted to do a liver flush. My condition has improved since I last posted this temptation several months ago, when several of you talked me out of it... Laura, have you ever flushed?



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Laura P
Friday, February 3, 2006, 12:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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I've never flushed, I think it would be good for me and would like too but am not sure if I could handle all the olive oil without tossing my cookies, I can barely have a teaspoon on a salad without getting naseaus.  Is there any other way to flush?



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Don
Friday, February 3, 2006, 2:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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I did my 3rd liver flush since Christmas this week, which is the 27th flush I have done. I am still getting stones with each flush. I have heard of people using something other than olive oil, but you do have to use some sort of oil.

You might want to read all of the info about taurine in the article below.

Females tend toward lower taurine levels than males as their production pathways don't work as efficiently.

Taurine is closely bound to zinc & manganese so deficiencies of either of these can interfere with its' utilization. Likewise, zinc & manganese enhance the effects of taurine.

...intestinal dysfunction with bacterial overgrowth of the small bowel can all lead to excess loss of taurine in the urine & subsequent deficiency.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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ironwood55  -  Friday, February 3, 2006, 2:22am
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Whimsical
Friday, February 3, 2006, 3:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Hi Laura,

I too was never able to hold the olive oil down, so I switched to almond oil and it worked like a charm.  Have you seen Heidi's flush instructions?  I can share them with you if you like.  She also recommends seltzer water with a dash of black cherry juice to reduce nausea - also worked for me!  


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Laura P
Friday, February 3, 2006, 3:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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yes, please tell me how you did it kate



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Whimsical
Friday, February 3, 2006, 3:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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I tried my first flush according to Julia Chang's instructions here (I even drove to her store and got the herbal concoction from her), but couldn't fast for more than a day (since I couldn't have apple juice - avoid for O-nons) and couldn't keep the olive oil/juice mix down.  

So, I tweaked the flush to use Heidi's personal version, which is posted somewhere in On The Diet - I wrote it up in word and will post it next.  This version worked well for me - I think the Epsom salts helped A LOT (even though they are really gross) and using almond oil instead of olive oil too - for some reason the taste of extra virgin olive oil would just stay with me and eventually I would throw it up, but almond oil has almost no taste (or at least I like the taste), so I kept it down!  If I felt nauseous I would sip some seltzer water with black cherry juice and do alternate nostril breathing.

I have also never managed to make it the full day after the flush without eating some protein, but this never seemed to do me any harm.  


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Whimsical
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HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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GALLBLADDER/LIVER FLUSH (according to Heidi):

I never used the preparatory herbs Julia suggests for softening the stones and clearing the liver. At the time of my first flush, I considered myself in fine physical health, and ready & willing to take the leap directly. This approach is not for everyone, and each of us must decide how to approach the flush. However, my experience bore out how simple, harmless and useful this procedure is, and I was glad to find that the flush itself is remarkably effective on its own.

You need not take off work to do it - you could juice-fast on the Thursday & Friday (even with light snacks if needed - veg & fruit only, no fats), do the flush Friday night, and then you've two days at home for the 'clear out' and to ease back into your usual menu.

PolyFlora is a must in the follow-up - take it twice daily on the day after the flush and for two weeks afterward, to help things return to normal.

ON THE DAY OF:
Only fresh (granny smith) apple juice if possible. Eat lightly if at all. Stop eating and drinking at 2:00. then, water permitted, but sip it.  *Optional: Make Epsom salts (3 T to 3 cups water – 3/4 cup per dose, add some lemon or pear juice if desired)

6:00 p.m. take first dose of Epsom salts.
8:00 p.m. take second dose.
Squeeze out 1 1/2 cups of red grapefruit juice, mix with 1 cup olive oil
9:30, take 1/2 the grapefruit/olive oil mix;
10:00, take the other half and LIE DOWN immediately on right side with right knee pulled up. Try to stay that way for at least 20 minutes – go to sleep if possible.

For nausea during the flush, have some room-temperature seltzer with a good dash of black cherry concentrate on your bedside table -- sip it until the nausea abates.

NEXT MORNING:
Immediately on rising, *take third dose of Epsom salts. Follow with lukewarm lemon water.  Last dose, two hours later. Follow with lukewarm lemon water.

Two hours after that, you can eat. Stick to vegetable soup and juices. Lots of soft stuff including veg broth or juice, no heavy protein or fats. Next day, nearly back to normal eating... just take it easy on the protein & fats.

That's it! Malic acid is available in supplement form for type O nonsecretors who wish to have the benefits of the apple juice without the pesky lectin. Since I now do this, at most, twice yearly, I have so far gone ahead with the organic fresh-juiced apples. I don't recommend it, but it's what I've done. Since I seem to be passing no stones at all anymore (just a bit of sand), I'm thinking of ditching the apple juice for the next one. stay tuned!

It may take several flushes, say one every two months over half a year, to do the job for you - but you'll feel the difference yourself, and be able to plan from there! It's certainly a great self-help tool, and may be what you've been looking for.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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JK
Friday, February 3, 2006, 5:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Would lemon work in place of the grapefruit? Not sure I could keep grapefruit down, hate it! The almond oil is a great idea, Kate.

And going so long with just light fruit and veggie snacks... How necessary is the fasting??    Maybe I'm not ready for a flush!!
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Whimsical
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HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Hi JK,

I think lemon juice would work just as well, I guess the grapefruit is thought to be easier to swallow (not as sour).  

The fasting isn't as bad as it sounds - I usually do just fruit and veggies on a Friday, then only water and juice on a Saturday, drink the Epsom salts, oil/juice mix that night.  You ARE hungry, but you get over it in a few hours and I actually then felt really great.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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pinemeadows
Friday, February 3, 2006, 1:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lkpetrolino
I've never flushed, I think it would be good for me and would like too but am not sure if I could handle all the olive oil without tossing my cookies, I can barely have a teaspoon on a salad without getting naseaus.  Is there any other way to flush?


I'm interested in this too....I have some twinges now and then that are definitely gall bladder.  Haven't tackled this as I'm afraid I have some big ones and that a stone might get stuck...anyone ever ever ever heard of this????  Or is that something I just shouldn't worry about?  That's the ONLY thing that stops me.

Wish I knew someone my approximate age (let's just say "mature") who recently did this!

Jeanne
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Whimsical
Friday, February 3, 2006, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Hi all,

There is a Golden Thread all about the flush (11 pages worth of discussion) that is worth reading if you haven't done a flush before.  Lots of beginners asking questions, and answers from the beloved Heidi, back when she still surfed the board.  

BTW pinemeadows, there is some discussion about stones getting stuck on their way out - this is why the Epsom salts are so important, because they help dilate the bile duct.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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ironwood55  -  Friday, February 3, 2006, 1:43pm
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Connect
Friday, February 3, 2006, 4:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I actually just received my shipment of Julia Chang's herbal tinctures.  I am planning on beginning to take them next Monday.  You take them 3 weeks before you flush.  This will be my first liver flush.  I've spoken with Julia on the phone about it, and she was very helpful in instructing me on how to do everything.  I bought her GCG, Chinese Bitters (to decongest liver first) and Coptis mixtures.  

Kind of dreading the drinking of the salt (ewww), but I need the flush.  


INFJ
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JK
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What is special about using epsom salts (hydrated magnesium sulfate MgSO4-7H20) instead of a magnesium supplement? The idea is to use Mg as a laxative, right? Just trying to understand exactly what happens during a flush... and Mg supplements are certainly easier to take than downing epsom salt!

Thanks Kate!
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Laura P
Friday, February 3, 2006, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Hey John, I just got zinc and copper, can't find taurine though, will these two work ok?



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Laura P
Friday, February 3, 2006, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Hey John, I just got zinc and copper, can't find taurine though, will these two work ok?



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Whimsical
Friday, February 3, 2006, 7:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Hi JK,

I don't know why Epsom salts rather than Mg - I just go with the instructions from Heidi.  Maybe someone else can explain why?


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Connect
Friday, February 3, 2006, 10:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from ruthie
Connect- I am interested in your post wherein you said that compulsive behavior stems from trying to avoid something.  Wish i could figure out what i am trying to avoid.  I'm not as compulsive as Monk, but I do like things 'my way'.  I think I am trying to avoid chaos.  Avoiding chaos seems to be the best avenue for an A or at least for this A.
namaste
ruthie


Hi Ruthie,

Typically when we find ourselves being compulsive, there is a truth we know on a subconscious level that we are struggling to avoid.  In trying to outrun said truth, we bury ourselves in compulsive eating, compulsive drinking, compulsive worrying, compulsive working, working out, etc.... It's all a dash to escape.  The thing that is ironic about the whole situation is that when one stops running and avoiding and instead practices accepting, the compulsion will abate and the need to control will disintegrate, as well.  It's usually not the truth that is so painful, as it is the avoidance of it.  When we stop and get still and just accept everything as it is, we center and that very chaos that you say you are trying to avoid goes away on its own.  The external chaos will always be there, but when you learn to get still and centered, miraculously, everything seems calm.  Acceptance of every moment really is the key.  Avoidance is what leads to compulsive behaviors.  


INFJ
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Laura P
Friday, February 3, 2006, 10:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Wow connect, that is alot to think about



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Lola
Friday, February 3, 2006, 11:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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epson salts help open up the ducts.......
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archived/config.pl?read=142736


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Don
Friday, February 3, 2006, 11:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Taurine might help with behavior too.

By this mechanism, it has anti-anxiety & anti-convulsant activity. It has also been found useful in some cases of migraine, insomnia, agitation, restlessness, irritability, alcoholism, obsessions, depression, hypomania/mania.


FIFHI; ISTP;
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Friday, February 3, 2006, 11:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Whimsical
Hi JK,

I don't know why Epsom salts rather than Mg - I just go with the instructions from Heidi.  Maybe someone else can explain why?


I'd only guess it's an inexpensive source, but also supplements usually contain lots of binders, etc. so may not dissolve as readily.  3 Tbsp of epsom salts would also probably be quite a few tablets or capsules.   The concentration (specific ratio of salts to water) could be important too for absorption or what ever.



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Friday, February 3, 2006, 11:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Sorry Laura,

Just read your posts #'s 66 & 67 - taurine is typically a tasteless white powder.  The best price is found in a store that sell bodybuilders' nutrients.  There are literally tons of these online if you can't find this at a local hfs.  You would scarcely believe how much savings are available this way.

taurine's a must with zinc .... one way around it is turkey(very high taurine) and pumpkin seeds (good source of zinc) ... but I'm talking big amounts of these nutrients ... higher than any food source.  Read more about taurine in the BTD-thread 'more about fat'

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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