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FitWitch
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 1:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lola

that s a new one!!! )
could you give us more detail, pls?
and what brand is that?


Ok for purists, this is only good for As since it has a corn product in it - but it's halfway down the list so it's unlikely there's much of it in there, might be tolerable for some...

Organic Earth Balance Whipped buttery spread
Non-GMO, Vegan, and Kosher
Non-Hydrogenated, Trans Fat Free, Non-dairy, Gluten free

Ingredients:
Expeller-pressed Natural Oil Blend (organic palm fruit, organic soybean, organic canola seed, and organic olive), filtered water, pure salt, natural flavor (derived from corn, no MSG, no alcohol, no gluten), organic crushed soybeans, organic soy lethicin, lactic acid (nondairy, derived from sugar beets), colored with beta-carotene derived from natural sources.

omega-6: 2720 mg/svg
omega-3: 340 mg/svg
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FitWitch
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 1:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14


Thanks for the info Sandra, but it's my understanding that polyunsaturated fats are NOT good for us?  Safflower oil, sunflower oil and corn oil aren't good....I also thought Canola wasn't the best either, but maybe I am confused?  It's been known to happen!


Are you trying to convince her that it's important to have good fats in your diet, or do you want her to do the BTD?  I haven't heard anything in general about polyunsat being "not good" for the general public - it's just BTDers that avoid certain types of oils...

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you just wanted to encourage her to include healthy fat in her diet, so I wasn't searching for BTD-compliant information.
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Laura P
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 1:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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fitwitch I would be careful using this product, I don't think palm fruit is allowed for A's, soybean oil and canola seed oil are not good choices and all of these oils are probably rancid from the process.  Just my point of view



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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resting
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 2:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi Connect,

too often many of us think that precision only has its place when things are very important, but for things like (chemistry in general and fats in particular) we do not have to be as precise since there is no danger here, really?  So, for most it is very important to get your extended family members names right ... and maybe some of their preferences - good for birthdays and at Christmas!.  [this same attitude usually includes friends]  .... because these folks are VERY IMPORTANT then this kind of 'knowing' is vital.  It is very uncommon to treat chemistry of fats in the same manner.

If we understood correctly that fats actually perform a myriad of functions within the body ... including provision of warmth for comfort; all mental processes ... even ALL nerve processes; provides a buffering pad with our environment ... ie. the pad of fat on a person's heal makes contact with a hard floor a bearable reality - just as the extra pad of stomach fat is slated to be a buffer for our bodies against the harshness and sparseness of winter; and, all kinds of other things too.  It is fats that permit us to live ... so selection of the proper kinds and amounts to suit is very important ... it spells out not only how long we live but also the quality of that life.  Choosing the 'right' fats is much more than the toss of the dice.  I've been at this over 30 years now and am still learning.

This is important for you and your roomy both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Connect
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Sandra:

You are correct.  I was just trying to get her to understand the nutrition and health a bit better.  I wasn't specifically commenting on the BTD compliance of such oils as corn, safflower, etc... I was commenting on the research I've done saying these aren't really good fats, in general.  Again, perhaps I'm confused about that.

John:

Thank you for the words.  I know this is all a learning process.  I learn something new from everyone on here daily.  Thanks for explaining the important role that fats play in our diet.  

This may sound like a question that I should know the answer to, but what is fat stored as in the body?  Fat?  I feel like this is something basic that I should know, but I apparently don't.  


INFJ
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FitWitch
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 7:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from connect14
Sandra:

You are correct.  I was just trying to get her to understand the nutrition and health a bit better.  I wasn't specifically commenting on the BTD compliance of such oils as corn, safflower, etc... I was commenting on the research I've done saying these aren't really good fats, in general.   


Interesting!  If you rediscover where you read that, please share the link.
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Connect
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 8:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I want to say it was on the Weston Price website, but I can't remember.  I'll take a look and see if I can find the link.


INFJ
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Laura P
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 8:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Polys are a difficult issue, excess consumption has been shown to cause alot of health problems, mostly for two reasons.  
a) they become easily rancid creating free radicals
b) too much upsets the balance needed



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Connect
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 9:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Quoted from shemch


Interesting!  If you rediscover where you read that, please share the link.


Here it is Sandra:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/dietdangers.html


INFJ
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SusanGeary
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 9:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I gave up worrying about fat ages ago. I have no idea how many grams I eat but its got to be a lot!!  I take fish oil capsules (3grams a day) and I eat a lot of nut butters and use olive oil and even coconut oil.  Your room mate sounds away out of the loop on this one.  Tell her fat is good for the brain and when she gets older she will need it so she won't be all brain fuzzy!!  !
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FitWitch
Thursday, January 26, 2006, 11:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lkpetrolino
Polys are a difficult issue, excess consumption has been shown to cause alot of health problems, mostly for two reasons.  
a) they become easily rancid creating free radicals
b) too much upsets the balance needed


What is considered "excess" consumption?
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Laura P
Friday, January 27, 2006, 12:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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It's all about balance fitwitch,  In general you should try to lower your poly intake because you get them everywhere.  Here again what the precise balance is is individual, btd helps with this, I would guess that a n-3 to n-6 ratio of 5:1 for an O and about 10:1 for an A



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Friday, January 27, 2006, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi Laura,

do I ever wish this were that simple ... just sorry they're not.

True EFA's form what is called a pi electron cloud, which means they share atoms of oxygen, or electrons, or photons of light over the area where the unsaturation exists.  [these very active elements are not fixed at one spot but are 'shared' over a range of molecular sites]  This means that every desaturated site has a 'methyl' group in between (a carbon part that looks like: -CH2-)... so AA(arachidonic acid) of the omega-6 family has 4 unsaturated sites and 3 methyl groups making a circle in appearance.  In much the same way the omega-3's EPA has 5 unsaturated sites separated by 4 methyl-groups in its larger circle and DHA has 6 unsaturated sites separated by 5 methyl groups in its even larger circle.

Here are some of the ways a problem begins .... 1) all fats are called fatty acids, and it is via this acid part that they are digested.  So too much of the not good kind competes directly for digestion with the good fats.  If there is a diminished capacity to digest fats (as in A-nonnies) other kinds of fats if in excess (and not so bulky as are EFA's) will mean that EFA's are crowded out.  2) trans fats are chemically altered in such a way that the pi-cloud disappears.  No pi-cloud = no transport. [Something like removing the track from one side of a set of train tracks.]  This also means that these very active elements are now fixed in one spot and leads directly to uncontrolled cross-linking. 3) canola oil has 3 unsaturated sites but only two of the three have a methyl group in between.  So it's properties are different (most say poorer) than standard EFA's.

There is a notion of ratios of omega-3's to omega-6's that presume a kind of year-round balance between these.  But a close examination will show that omega-6's are more related to heat (tropics) and are closely connected to pigments [note how vibrant animal-colours are in the tropics and how bland most animal colours of the temperate zones] and growth while omega-3's are more suited to cold.  This means that there is a seasonal cycling of EFA's such that Spring-summer is geared to omega-6's, while omega-3's are for autumn and winter in temperate/arctic zones.  The notion of ratios is much too simple!

confused - me too ...........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Connect
Friday, January 27, 2006, 6:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Yeah, I'm confused.


INFJ
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Draginvry
Friday, January 27, 2006, 6:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
 But a close examination will show that omega-6's are more related to heat (tropics) and are closely connected to pigments [note how vibrant animal-colours are in the tropics and how bland most animal colours of the temperate zones] and growth while omega-3's are more suited to cold.


That explains a lot...



DISCLAIMER:  The above information is garnered from personal experience.  This advice is not intended to replace that of a trained medical professional.  Although, personally, I wouldn't trust most trained medical professionals to have the knowledge or know-how to trim my toenails.
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Connect
Tuesday, January 31, 2006, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi Laura,

1) all fats are called fatty acids, and it is via this acid part that they are digested.  So too much of the not good kind competes directly for digestion with the good fats.  If there is a diminished capacity to digest fats (as in A-nonnies) other kinds of fats if in excess (and not so bulky as are EFA's) will mean that EFA's are crowded out.  

John


John:
Are you saying here (with the A-nonnie quote):  that this is the reason to keep monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil, peanut butter) to a minimum, even though they are beneficial?  so that the EFAs are not crowded out?  


INFJ
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Tuesday, January 31, 2006, 7:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from SusanGeary
I gave up worrying about fat ages ago. I have no idea how many grams I eat but its got to be a lot!!  I take fish oil capsules (3grams a day) and I eat a lot of nut butters and use olive oil and even coconut oil.  Your room mate sounds away out of the loop on this one.  Tell her fat is good for the brain and when she gets older she will need it so she won't be all brain fuzzy!!  !


Tell her it will be good for her skin and hair too.  Most of us can appreciate that.



Blogger Cheryl
O pos Secretor
Texas


"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Tuesday, January 31, 2006, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+

There is a notion of ratios of omega-3's to omega-6's that presume a kind of year-round balance between these.  But a close examination will show that omega-6's are more related to heat (tropics) and are closely connected to pigments [note how vibrant animal-colours are in the tropics and how bland most animal colours of the temperate zones] and growth while omega-3's are more suited to cold.  This means that there is a seasonal cycling of EFA's such that Spring-summer is geared to omega-6's, while omega-3's are for autumn and winter in temperate/arctic zones.  The notion of ratios is much too simple!

confused - me too ...........

John


John, I know you're into the seasonal thing.  Are you suggesting that the ideal ratio might depend on the time of year and local climate?  Can you give us an example of how you vary your oil consumption over the course of the year?



Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 3:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Just bumping this up, maybe John missed it.


Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Thursday, February 2, 2006, 5:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Sorry Cheryl - I did!

Before I get into seasonal variation I should make some sort of declaration that this whole concept is a variation of the BTD and it is EXPERIMENTAL.  It makes all kinds of sense to me, but putting such information into any kind of therapeutic practice is your experiment!

I use   > colostrum >> Spring >> summer >> autumn  >> winter >

FATS: for the first half of the seasonal cycle ...+ lecithin + omega-6 oils (mostly sunflower and safflower oils) + a small amount of AA these are strongly connected to pigmentation and being exposed to sunlight so in spring grass juice is followed by chlorella and a number of berries and edible flowers ... perhaps edible insects too .... energy of prominence sunlight & heat
        for the second half of the seasonal cycle ... autumn + lecithin + omega-3 mixed in with omega-6 ... mostly plant-derived (flax and hemp).  [I much prefer the whole seed to the oil.] + Stabilium
winter: +lecithin + omega-3 oils of EPA/DHA likely some vitamins A and D3 too .... eg. cod liver oil

sure hope this doesn't confuse
.............. energy of prominence - magnetism and cold


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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KimonoKat
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 5:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm sorry John.  Could you break it down a bit more simple for me?

Spring:  I do this
Summer: I do this
Fall: I do this
Winter: I do this

And from what I'm trying to understand of your seasonal experiment, it will also depend on what hemisphere one is in, correct?



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 5:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Thanks for that breakdown.  I think many of us combine other concepts with BTD from time to time.  I always monitor the things I can measure as well as how I feel when I make any big change to my diet.  Even within BTD, there are things they may not work for us as individuals.


Blogger Cheryl
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  True nobility is being superior to your former self."  Anonymous quote
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Thursday, February 2, 2006, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Correct Kimokat,

Part of following strictly the BTD as written, is that it strongly tends to be 'flat-line' and override differences in zones.  This may not seem to be a huge thing if you live in the sub-tropics, but this is extremely important where I reside.  This does not seem to be of too much consequence until you start to understand that omega-3's can dominate omega-6's especially as how they connect to pigments.  So, by eating flax the whole year-round you skew the omega-6 oils chance to connect strongly with pigments.

Variation of oils (as I have outlined) is not used by anyone and most modern nutritionists wish you to take omega-3's year-round.  In a way, it short-circuits the use of omega-6.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Victoria
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 6:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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John,
For those of us in moderate climates, do you think the seasonal use of Omega 6's as you described might contribute to increasing the inflammatory situations that so many of us are struggling with?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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resting
Thursday, February 2, 2006, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Victoria -

exactly - the difficulty here lies in the improper understanding of the chemical basis for the vast majority of inflammation.  One of the bi-products of AA(arachidonic acid of the omega-6) is PgE2(prostaglandin E2),  produces all kinds of inflammation.  For many decades now, it has been called the 'bad boy'.  However, all PgE2 is just following orders to get some zinc.  If it has to, (very persistent, eh) it will rob this from another cell surface.  If such happens often, this will create a clumping of cells that we term inflammation.

solution - supply the zinc on the cell surface and the whole inflammation thing will not happen.  Zinc is strongly tied onto membrane surfaces by taurine .... kinda like the bricks on a house being stuck by grout.  So the solution is 25mg - zinc + 2mg - copper + 2g of taurine .... on an empty stomach 2X each day until the body does not need such a high amount ... then it can be halved.  A third period like this can be magnesium + potassium + taurine ..............

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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