i REALLY hate the way spelt tastes, but i love bread.  is there another type of bread that tastes more like "normal" bread that is beneficial or neutral?  if so where can i find it?

try the sprouted wheat breads....
ezequiel, from 'food for life'......WF refrigerator section.

Quoted from meboarma

i REALLY hate the way spelt tastes, but i love bread.

What brands of spelt bread have you tried?

ooo wow Don super to see ya on board

Go to the freezer section of your local health food store.  They have all sorts of truly wheat-free breads in there.  There is a delicious rye bread called French Meadows 100% rye with flaxseed.  There are also some 100% rice breads, too.  Check out the freezer section of your health food store, that's the ticket!

Lately I've been buying Food For Life White Rye.  There's no wheat in it at all.  

Also there's a big difference in the taste of spelt breads so try some different brands.
Jane

I'm a B so I can't have rye...but i do love it!  I'm not sure the brand of spelt i have at home, I'll have to check it out.  I'll look in the freezer section of the health food store.  On another note, I have some spelt pasta I'm not sure what to do with...I need some sort of sauce for it, but I can't have tomatoes.  Any ideas?  How about yogurt, any personal favorites out there?  Thanks everyone, I would've never kept with this without all your answers!

Have you tried baking your own white spelt bread ?
-just wondering since I almost can´t taste the difference!! And none of my fussy family or friends ever notice if I bake cake or bread with it!- However if you are used to plastic-cardboard -wheat-bread and turns to some wholegrain-spelt-handkneaded -by organic-spiritual-austrian-nuns type of bread I could understand your feeling. Whole spelt taste a lot stronger than normal wheat!
Try something with oats, millet or rice - remember it contains little (oats) or no gluten( rice millet) and it doesn´t bake the same way. The reason why spelt is so popular with B´s is that it works almost like wheat and looks like it! Buckweat, rye and corn is as you know a big NO .
Consider- if your tastebuds keep playing up- to only eat small amounts of bread- maybe a few slices of organic white wheat won´t mess you up. Whea so If you don´t feel fat it might be ok.- but not great t (white is a neutral for B sec)

Quoted from meboarma

I'm a B so I can't have rye...but i do love it!  I'm not sure the brand of spelt i have at home, I'll have to check it out.  I'll look in the freezer section of the health food store.  On another note, I have some spelt pasta I'm not sure what to do with...I need some sort of sauce for it, but I can't have tomatoes.  Any ideas?  How about yogurt, any personal favorites out there?  Thanks everyone, I would've never kept with this without all your answers!

How about an alfredo sauce made with cheese and butter. Check out the recibase on this site.

My thoughts, too, Henriette...  

There is spelt... and then there is spelt. I have not found a commercial brand of spelt bread that I like. There is a small HFS here that makes a sourdough  all-spelt bread that is moist and delicious, too. But that is the only one I've found that I like.

Other than spelt pasta, my main use of spelt is as a flour for baking.

just reread what the typebase says about spelt and speltflour:
Spelt is beneficial for Bsecs- but speltflour is just neutral....

Just wondering if (as I)) do make my own spelt flour right befor use - dont take gems out etc - it could be more than neutral- somehow beneficial?

I was thinking that the reason why the flour just is neutral might be because it is not as fresh and alive as the whole kennel ?

Quoted from meboarma

I'm a B so I can't have rye...but i do love it!

Oooops, how dumb of me to suggest rye to a Type B!  I'm sorry!  But do still check the HFS freezers because there are a lot of different types of 100% rice breads in there and some are good!

Quoted from meboarma

On another note, I have some spelt pasta I'm not sure what to do with...I need some sort of sauce for it, but I can't have tomatoes.  Any ideas?  How about yogurt, any personal favorites out there?  Thanks everyone, I would've never kept with this without all your answers!

Yes!  A chance to redeem myself for the rye debacle!  Pesto sauce is my favorite!  It is made with fresh ground basil, pine nuts (traditionally, but you can leave those out or use walnuts or other nuts instead), olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and salt to taste.  I absolutely LOVE pesto sauce!!!  If you don't want to use spelt pasta, btw, there are excellent brands of rice pasta, such as pastariso brand.  You can also just use whole brown rice, for that matter, instead of pasta.

Enjoy!

Oh yeah, and with you being Type B, of course you can make sauces with all sorts of delectable CHEESES!

Does your flour feel very warm when freshly ground?

I've heard, sometimes the heat from grinding through an electric mill can destroy some of the nutrients... not likely with a hand cranked model.

But either way, certainly more nutritious freshly ground... lucky you...  

No it is more or less the same temperature as the room. However if I grinds rice it gets warmer.I share the machine with my mum- no reason to buy one each.

Yes Kristin I am lucky
- Got a whole bag of organic spelt from my next door neighbour for almost nothing compaired to the shops where 1 kg of white spelt cost around 5 dollars!!!

I have been trying different flavors of GlutenFree breads from Whole Foods made with rice flour.  Watch out, though, because some products use canola oil.  The breads are a little dense, but some taste pretty good.

Gail

which ones taste pretty good?  i looked and the kind of spelt bread i have is "french meadow"

Gluten-free breads often have B avoids in them, like tapioca (avoid for secretors), so be sure to read the labels.

and whats about riceflower or kamut or a mix with amranth ? and even quinoa all are
a little likewise *nutsy* in their taste  very lecker...lecker

Quoted from ISA-MANUELA

and whats about ...kamut...

Kamut is a Type B and Type AB avoid, fyi.  Meboarma is Type B, so kamut would not work for her.

btw--and the following is a leaping greenly opinion only, not the BTD party line, and so should be taken as just a "my two cents" thaaang, but here goes:

kamut is in the same class as spelt, far as I'm personally concerned, namely:  it is

WHEAT!

Why would anyone who is avoiding wheat eat spelt or kamut?  Sorry, me no get.  Why not have rice, quinoa, oat, rye, etc. (providing none of those are avoids for one's particular type)?  I just will never get the whole avoiding-wheat-but-eating-spelt-or-kamut thing.  They may be kinder, gentler forms of wheat, but they are still wheat.

Discuss!

Uhhh... feeling a bit testy, there, LG?  


Officially, BTD standards lists wheat as a neutral for B's... perhaps one of the reasons why spelt does not bother us.

But there are other reasons to avoid wheat... it being one of the most hybridized grains there is... quite a different beast from the wild grass it once was.

Quoted from Kristin

Uhhh... feeling a bit testy, there, LG?  

It's just that every time I read the word "spelt" I have to   keep from shouting my opinion of same from the cyber rooftop, and every once in a while I just BREAK *lol*!  And I must exclaim to the world my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion, as this subject is open to debate), which is:

Spelt is wheat.

There!  I said it!  And I'll say it again:  Spelt is wheat, I tell you, wheat, wheat, WHEAT!

In the immortal words of Danielle from "LOST":  Run, hide or die!



Seriously, while spelt is not as hybridized or mutated as our current, monstrous, GMO frankenwheat, it is still wheat.  It is definitely a BETTER choice as far as wheat goes, as it:

1.  Has a much less harmful form of the wheat lection; and
2.  Has much less of the lectin it does have.

But it is, what class?  YES!  Still wheat!  Run, hide or die!

I see why Dr. D. has it as neutral for your basic O secretor, as when someone is new to this diet, the changes from the typical American (or other western) diet can be overwhelming and spelt allows a person to still have breads and other baked goods that are very similar to what they are used to, whereas other flours sometimes don't turn out the same as WHEAT (and what does this tell you about spelt...come on, class, don't let me down here...CORRECT:  that spelt IS wheat, dat's why it turns out so well in baking, "well" meaning "identical to wheat").  But once you get kinda sorta experienced and skilled in this way of life, who needs spelt?  It is like training wheels on a bike.  Then again, I say that through my nonnie-colored glasses, so if you are an O secretor out there who really enjoys spelt bread, cookies, cakes, et al., have at it and don't pay me no nevermind.

But, boy howdy, I tried spelt ONCE, last Thanksgiving to be exact, and my reaction was:

"....YUP!  WHEEEEEEEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I'M HIT, I'M HIT!  TELL MY WIFE AND KIDS I LOVE THEM...oh, wait, I'm a woman AND I don't have a spouse or kids...everything is fading to black...what a world, what a world..."

If that bread had been any more definitely WHEAT you could have knocked me over with a feather.  Talk about quacking like a duck!

Anyway, every few years or so I shoot off my mouth about my opinion on spelt.  I should be good to go now for a few years, so it is safe to come out from under all y'all's beds now!  Coast is clear!  My every-so-many-years spelt fit is concluded.

so if spelt is wheat, why would it be beneficial for me instead of just a neutral or avoid??

Holy Hominy, I just found THE coolest web page!  I just love the name alone *lol*:  "nowheat.com"!!!!!  Loving it!  Anyway, check out this page and the headings "spelt" and "kamut"!  Now, much as I love the name of the web site, I must in fairness say that I just discovered it .5 seconds ago and thus do not know Thing One about its credibility/reliability, source-wise.  However, I love seeing how clearly she states that both kamut AND spelt are wheat!  I love it because it backs up MY opinion...whether or not that page is a reliable source is secondary to that *lol*!!!!  Seriously, take it for what it is worth:

http://www.nowheat.com/grfx/nowheat/primer/controvl.htm
(scroll down to "kamut" and "spelt")

P.S.  Note to Melissa and other celiacs:  The home page (that you can get to if you go to the bottom of the linked page and click on "Linda's home page") of the above linked page seems to be a portal to information of interest on this gal's site about celiac disease, fyi.

if we are doing the btd, aren't we supposed to go with what d'adamo says...so if he says spelt is beneficial, we should go with that?

NOTE:  In fairness, I must point out that just because something "is wheat", as in, is a type of wheat, does NOT mean that the lectin is the same as modern wheat.  Therefore, from a blood type diet perspective, the ratings of these other varieties of wheat could be different from what is simply called "wheat".  That said--and again, maybe this is because I view the world through O-nonnie tinted glasses--to me, if something is wheat, I run in the other direction and ask questions later.  There is more than just the lectin issue, there is gluten, gliandins, and just your general, indefinable "wheat essence".  Who needs it?!  I don't want it in my bod.  Be gone, wheat essence!

Quoted from meboarma

if we are doing the btd, aren't we supposed to go with what d'adamo says...so if he says spelt is beneficial, we should go with that?

Weird timing!  I just posted my "Note" (above) at the same time as you posted this, and hopefully that will answer your question.  Basically, you definitely can't go wrong following the BTD to the letter!  It is THE best diet blueprint out there for how to make and keep your body healthy!  However, it is also okay to discuss our own opinions about a given food item, too.  Just look at all the information and opinions on this site as other things to consider, but let the BTD itself be your blueprint when in doubt!

I would say give spelt, kamut, etc ye olde allergy test--take it out of your diet for a week, then try it and see what happens.

I'm a secretor, so spelt is a neutral grain for me. However it causes the same symptoms in my body as wheat, only not as strong as wheat. So--I very rarely do spelt.

Kamut causes exactly the same reaction in my body as wheat. In fact, it's about the same reaction as bread flour--huge anxiety attacks a half hour after consumption, followed by congestion and sneezing, racing heart, etc.

I haven't tried teff or kemmer, but anticipate they will be either more like spelt or somewhere in the curve between wheat and spelt. So--for me, anything wheat or wheatlike is O*U*T.

Rice flour is my main flour now. I mostly make quickbreads like muffins or scones with it, and also cookies. Quinoa flour is a good substitute for cornmeal. I make muffins and tortillas with it. I use ezekiel bread for the occasional sandwich or toast. But all grains and grain products are OCCASIONAL use only--a Sunday morning treat, or a holiday dinner. That's it. As an O, my main focus is on protein, namely meat and fish, along with vegetables, fruits and water.

We are all different within our own blood types. With Dr. D's guidelines and recommendations in mind, do some experimenting and see what turns up.

I think Henriette said it best up above... the spelt berries are beneficial, but the flour is neutral. The cooked spelt berries (grain kernels) are quite delicious... great in a salad with heavier vegetables, or topped with yogurt, or...


Now... if you grind the berries fresh and use the flour right away is it a B or N?

Maybe because it's spelt and not regular wheat there is something different about the lectins in it?  Even though it may be a variation of wheat, it may have different lectins.

I don't like it either, though.  I prefer rice flour.

If you look at the old information in TYPEbase 3 the spelt entry was Spelt (whole) so I suspect that TYPEbase4 type B spelt rating is talking about whole spelt and the spelt flour rating is refering to white spelt flour and products?

I used to have trouble with a variety of grains including spelt until I got my leaky gut problem resolved.  Now I can eat them at least in reasonable amounts for my type without any noticeable problems.

I'm afraid wheat is one of the things I haven't given up although I think I have had too much this last week, I would say that it is corn that affects me more more drastically... Spelt seems to be slightly better though than "normal" wheat - although I have to make my own bread. (and not freshly ground - forget Samos, let's go and to Denmark! How many can you fit in to your house, Henriette?

All varieties of Food for Life's Ezekiel breads are a nice alternative to wheat and spelt breads; however, please double check for avoids per blood type.

From my experience, many spelt breads are sold in the freezer section of HFS's.  I favor freshly baked spelt breads, which tends to taste better than spelt bread that has been previously frozen.  Also, spelt french baquettes are a light, airy bread loaf alternative if one can get them in their local store/bakery.


Alia

Quoted from Ellie

I'm afraid wheat is one of the things I haven't given up although I think I have had too much this last week, I would say that it is corn that affects me more more drastically... Spelt seems to be slightly better though than "normal" wheat - although I have to make my own bread. (and not freshly ground - forget Samos, let's go and to Denmark! How many can you fit in to your house, Henriette?

Hm 2 or 3 - I am used to my space

LG- About spelt being a wheat ----- Well first of all notice that there are diffrences in the OLD European version and the modern American version!!!
The European is still pure!! -it is very like what my ironage ancestors grew -
while the stuff you grow in the USA is poluted!!! Somewhere in the 20´s farmers wanted better produce etc.. so they crossed spelt and wheat .. today most serious farmes tries to go back to the old version( the pure).Old swiz version is called "Oberkulner Rotkorn" it is one of the purest and most common here.
In Denmark and in most countries in Europe they grow the old version. SO it might be the reason why your reaction to the spelt was so bad. NOT to forget that being a O is different than a B  SO we can handle grains better as you already know.
However I do think that once you got your diet fixed as B -you should look at your grain intake- small abouts of beriies are better than bread!

Quoted from Brighid45

Rice flour is my main flour now. I mostly make quickbreads like muffins or scones with it, and also cookies. Quinoa flour is a good substitute for cornmeal. I make muffins and tortillas with it. I use ezekiel bread for the occasional sandwich or toast. But all grains and grain products are OCCASIONAL use only--a Sunday morning treat, or a holiday dinner. That's it. As an O, my main focus is on protein, namely meat and fish, along with vegetables, fruits and water.

We are all different within our own blood types. With Dr. D's guidelines and recommendations in mind, do some experimenting and see what turns up.

Hi Brighid - would you mind posting some of your rice flour recipes? I had a look in recipbase but couldn't find a rice scone one - sounds good. I too sometimes have spelt issues and rice is ok in moderation. rice quickbread and cookies appeals too as the recipes I have are quite complicated. thanks!
carmen of oz....

I found some spelt bread i like!  the only problem is that it has canola oil in it, i know it's an avoid, but i'm just so happy to find one i like.  what do you guys think?  the kind i am trying is white spelt bread by berlin natural bakery

Yes, Berlin Natural Bread is great.  Have you tried the whole spelt bread.  That is what I use at home.

I suspect that very little oil is used in the bread.

Hm If you like this kind of bread- i wouldn´t care much about the canola oil - it is so little amount used.
canola oil is only a tier 2 avoid!

I found this bread at the HFS that we have been eating that is very tasty. Especially toasted. It is millet & flax made by Sami's Bakery. It is less expensive than some of the others as well. Our grocery has no compliant breads at all so I have to buy at the HFS and most of the breads are very expensive so you have to like it and eat it all or waste lots of money. Good luck this is a challenge finding the right bread.

I looked up Sami's Bakery. It looks like they have a number of interesting products.
http://www.samisbakery.com

Thanks for the tip. I may look into ordering some or suggesting that my HFS try getting some.

Carmen--sorry to take so long getting back to you, I lost track of the thread

I just take any recipe with wheat flour--usually a muffin, quickbread or cookie--and substitute sweet rice flour for the wheat. I also try to sub compliant ingredients for any avoids--like homemade baking powder without cornstarch, rice or almond milk for dairy, evaporated cane juice or stevia for sugar, and so on.

Scones are one recipe I haven't tried yet, mainly because I am a horrible scone-loving piggie and will eat way too many of them for my own good *lol* I would imagine if you are careful about how you add the butter to the rice flour and don't work it too much you should have nice light scones. Ooohh . . . don't even want to talk about them, I'll end up making a batch! *lol*

In case anyone is interested, I contacted Sami's Bakery and asked them if the Non Aluminum Baking Powder that they use has cornstarch in it?  They replied No, they use potato starch.

Have you tried white spelt flour?  I think it is better than wheat (not gummy), bakes well for anything "short" (pie crust, cookie, noodles, etc.)  I have heard that in one administration (not current, I believe), the chief baker at the White House used only spelt (not for health reasons, but for its flavor and quality).  As an O, I bake very little--but want it to count when I do.  VitaSpelt makes the flour, I order 5 lbs. for holiday baking, keep it in the freezer.  

Quoted from Elizabeth

Have you tried white spelt flour?  ...VitaSpelt makes the flour, I order 5 lbs. for holiday baking, keep it in the freezer.  

Have you tried Kamut flour for holiday treats?  I got some based on a recommendation for that purpose from Heidi.  I have only used it to make some choc. chip cookies, but they turned out really good.

Kamut is an avoid for Bs...

I had trouble with the taste of breads, but am now getting used to it.  Toasting sometimes helps.  Try making the "hamburger buns" with white spelt in Dr. D'Adamo's cookbook.  Just shape them into small rounds and they come out like a small sandwich bun.  Spelt requires only a gentle kneading - just so your dough comes out like a soft baby's bottom.

It is difficult to find spelt or rice breads that do not contain avoids.  Trader Joe's contains one brand - yeast free - the whole spelt and whole kamut are OK, but the white spelt contains an avoid oil.  

Our health food store (I am on West Coast) ships in bread from Berlin Bakery.  I think they are located in the Midwest.  The store used to put the bread on the shelf but had to throw out too much, so now it is in the freezer and costs a bundle.  Berlin Bakery  white spelt has no avoids and really tastes good.  Every other brand I've checked out contains avoids.

Quoted from ironwood55

I used to have trouble with a variety of grains including spelt until I got my leaky gut problem resolved.  Now I can eat them at least in reasonable amounts for my type without any noticeable problems.

Don, I am an O secretor too and I have real trouble with just about all grains.
It seems as if rice is the only grain I can eat, even then some of it gives me bother.

I have been cleared of Celiac but have tested positive for Gluten intolerance and a Leaky gut.
How did you fix your leaky gut? If you don't mind me asking!   Cheers john.

John, At the time it was occuring I did not realize leaky gut was my problem so I wasn't specifically trying to correct the problem and I don't exactly remember the things I did during that time.  However, here is what I remember.

Obviously being BTD compliant was at the top of the list.
I also avoided grains. I may have occasionally had some rice.
I believe it was during this period of time that I was using significant amounts of L-glutamine. I would probably use 5 grams at a time and might do that several times a day, particularly if I was intensely exercising that day.
I used some Polyflora and Deflect.
I was also trying a variety of supplements that were potentially good for type O for differnet things. I don't remember what all I tried.
I also started doing regular liver flushes at the end of this period of time.

After about a year I found that grains didn't cause me problems anymore.

Thanks very much Don, I appreciate your reply.

My leaky gut diagnosis also identified 32 food allergies, plus a couple of mineral element deficiencies and "Candida".

Other than that I was seen to be in pretty good health!

Remedies put in place really seem to be working plus my adherence to the BTD. (Totally committed)

Currently I am feeling as good as I can ever remember.

By Easter at this rate I could be positively "dangerous".    Cheers John.

Yes, remember his three aphorisms.  But when we have such strong reactions, as PT does, it's so hard to believe that it's not the same for everyone.

But I was going to suggest a pesto based sauce with pasta, olive oil, basil, compliant nut (doesn't have to be pine nuts), maybe there's usually parsley in there too.  That would be great with veggies and/or meat.  A basic butter (ghee) and garlic sauce would also be nice.

Spelt bread bought in the health food store is not that great tasting.  However, making bread, pancakes and deserts from scratch using spelt flower produces very tasty results

Yes to Berlin White Spelt Bread!  It WAS our favorite until I finally got MY recipe downpat recently.  Now we like homemade white spelt bread the best but we still have Berlin's bread in our freezer at all times.

You B's that asked for something to put on your pasta.....I have a NO TOMATO TOMATO SAUCE recipe in the recipe base...it's the one with fresh steamed carrots and red beats and done in a blender.  It's so easy to make and can be frozen in smaller portions in canning jars to use as needed.  I can't tell that it's NOT real spaghetti sauce and I use it on pizzas too.  It can be used as a chili base as well, but I've not tried that yet.  If you don't find it, PM me....when we unburry from this freakin' ICE STORM here in Michigan, I'll get back on my puter and get it to ya somehow.  

Right now, I'm packin' my bags to get the heck out of Dodge!  Heading towards a town for a night or two since we're out in the middle of the boonies and sure to be burried in ice and snow and with the winds they are predicting, I think we better be nearer to the old people that we love.

Hope to be back on by Saturday at the latest.  Someone please send some sunshine!!!

~jill~

Quoted from jillthepilllady

...You B's that asked for something to put on your pasta.....I have a NO TOMATO TOMATO SAUCE recipe in the recipe base...it's the one with fresh steamed carrots and red beats and done in a blender.  It's so easy to make and can be frozen in smaller portions in canning jars to use as needed.  I can't tell that it's NOT real spaghetti sauce and I use it on pizzas too...

Here's the URL.  http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor.cgi?490

Thanks!  This is great since I gave up tomatoes on the Arthritis program!  But since I also gave up grains, I now need something to put it on lol!

I'm unable to find "white spelt flour" in my area, Tucson, AZ.  We have Wild Oats Grocer here but no WFS.  Any online distributor (small amount)?  Is it really better for baking than "whole spelt flour", which I have some of?  Being an O (awaiting results of secretor status) I've kept away from grains pretty much, except for rice, which I've always loved.  I am an avid baker, though, and I'm getting frustrated not having any cookies, brownies, cake, etc. that I cook for the family.  I absolutely couldn't resist the lemon meringue pie I made this week, though.  I've had 2 slices without any bad effects at all.  knocking wood

Quoted from mikendomsmum

I'm unable to find "white spelt flour" in my area, Tucson, AZ.  We have Wild Oats Grocer here but no WFS.  Any online distributor (small amount)?  Is it really better for baking than "whole spelt flour", which I have some of?  Being an O (awaiting results of secretor status) I've kept away from grains pretty much, except for rice, which I've always loved.  I am an avid baker, though, and I'm getting frustrated not having any cookies, brownies, cake, etc. that I cook for the family.  I absolutely couldn't resist the lemon meringue pie I made this week, though.  I've had 2 slices without any bad effects at all.  knocking wood

Someone must sell Vita Spelt White flour.  If no HFS's in your area have it, you might try searching the internet for them.  There's http://www.ferrisorganicfarm.com that sells the flour here in Michigan but I've been told there's no mention of the white flour on their site.  You may have to email or call them.  However, I think they only sell 25 pound bags so you might want to find a friend to share it with if that's too much.

Berlin Bakery (www.speltbread.com) sells 5 pound bags of white spelt flour.