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Chloe
Friday, August 23, 2013, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Lately, i keep talking to people who are walking around with headaches.  Some thinking they have
migraines.  And yet, MSG which is prevalent in so many of our seemingly innocuous foods is a flavor enhancer being added to almost everything, not to mention that MSG is found naturally
in many natural foods like ripe cheeses. As a Teacher who should be getting a lot of cheese,
I figured out pretty quickly I could tolerate none of them for this reason.  I for one landed in the ER many years ago after eating soup in a Chinese restaurant which was obviously seasoned
with MSG.  Glutamate affects the brain, the nervous system and rarely does a doctor associate
adverse symptoms from MSG with this chemical. I was sent for a battery of tests for one bowl
of soup...and my diagnosis was "we don't know...we'll just watch it"... MSG can cause seizures.  Many people don't realize they're ingesting this chemical and many different terms are used to disguise this ingredient.  If you're an Explorer, you might be very aware of your sensitivities to
chemicals....but for the rest of us....symptoms you can't explain might be connected to your
ingestion of MSG.

http://www.msgtruth.org/avoid.htm

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Averno
Friday, August 23, 2013, 5:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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MSG does give me a headache and makes me feel irritable for day or two-- an obvious, unpleasant reaction. Oddly, my swami only rates it a black dot. My wife has it as neutral. I have to wonder why MSG isn't classified with the other "untouchables" mentioned in ERFYT?
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C_Sharp
Friday, August 23, 2013, 9:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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MSG is an avoid for a number of people on SWAMI (I am one).


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 7:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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me too!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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RedLilac
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 1:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI tweaked Explorer Super Taster from Illinois
Kyosha Nim
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The 1st time I heard of someone who couldn’t eat Chinese food was when I was in college & I thought it strange.  Then my son had problems with it.  As an adult he knows every Chinese place in town that doesn’t use MSG or will not if you request it.  Funny, I have 10x more food sensitivities than he does but MSG is not one of them.


I am B- NON-Sec Explorer; my son is B+ SEC Nomad; my Mother was O+; and my Father was AB-
SWAMI Thanksgiving present 2008
Revised from Arlene B- NonSec to RedLilac on 3/31/06
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Averno
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 3:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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Unfortunately, it does taste awfully d***ed good...
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Chloe
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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MSG is a toxin for me as well....but hidden even in organic foods.  MIght say "no msg" on a package and yet contain msg in forms that you won't recognize. Assume if you're sensitive that words on
a label you can't recognize in soups, condiments and most packaged items contain some form of msg.

If you don't make everything from complete scratch from 100% whole foods, you're likely ingesting
msg.  Manufacturers are lying to us.  And know they are.

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/nomsg.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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yaeli
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 3:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
Thanks.

you are only safe in your own kitchen.


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Averno
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 5:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from yaeli
Thanks.

you are only safe in your own kitchen.


Absolutely!
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san j
Saturday, August 24, 2013, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Don't leave one's kitchen?

http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/.....-west-reprise?blog=8
The last line says it all.


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yaeli
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 7:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j
Don't leave one's kitchen?

To each his own.



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SquarePeg
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 1:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I'm writing an open letter to NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who strove to eliminate trans-fats from restaurant foods.  He could do the same with MSG.  Few of us dine in NYC restaurants,  but just the publicity could start a great public outcry.


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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Averno
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 1:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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San j,  I love both of these stories. Agree and believe wholeheartedly. The lesson of each is worthy of a lifetime of ponder and practice. The conceit of false worship has been noted in at least one other of your wonderful essays. But the key operatve commented by Yaeli and agreed by me is safety, not abstinence.



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yaeli
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 3:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Speech is silver, silence is gold.

Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time (Amos 5,13)


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san j
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 5:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Averno

San j,  I love both of these stories. Agree and believe wholeheartedly. The lesson of each is worthy of a lifetime of ponder and practice. The conceit of false worship has been noted in at least one other of your wonderful essays. But the key operatve commented by Yaeli and agreed by me is safety, not abstinence.


Macrobiotic folks are seeking physical health.
Many of them also tend to hyper-restriction.
When they reach the point of refusing to eat anything they themselves have not prepared, in the interest of their health, the problem may be less the manufacturers'/ industry's than their own. Leaders in macrobiotics came more and more to see this as a potential drawback and began to expand permissions; the human psyche can tend to apply "worship" (as you put it) -legalisms to the matter of fueling/eating, lose enjoyment, separate it from world-interaction. And because eating is a physical daily imperative, this has massive ramifications on an individual's life. When a "Diet" can be faulted for fostering such attitudes, the public (and Forum readers) should understand that the tendency might be an individual one, having nothing to do with the particular diet or its parameters (as both Blog-stories illustrate). Peter D'Adamo has frequently had to remind us of such principles. I quoted him on another thread yesterday with this:

Quoted from Peter D'Adamo
Finally, there is the question of whether making things ‘easy’ for the body really serves our best long term interests. Many of the physiologic functions of the body are hormetic; they benefit from challenge and mild stress. Like exercise, they require challenge in order to induce a more robust response. On the other hand, over anticipating the needs of a complex system can actually increase its dependence and fragility.


Demanding punctilious control to the point of not eating anything one hasn't oneself prepared, believing that to be one's only recourse for safety, is actually a departure from D'Adamo's diets' mooring in larger Life principles. It's a confounding of one's personal control-need with his work, where it is proposed on his Forum.

It depends what one's goals are for his Forum.
Mine have to do with the attractiveness of his teaching, facilitating its implementation.
It can be enjoyably integrated into one's own chosen life and lifestyle.


And I don't know if yaeli's compliance involves periods of silence, too, but Dr. D'Adamo doesn't advocate that, anywhere that I've read.

Quoted from yaeli
Speech is silver, silence is gold.

Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time (Amos 5,13)

Clearly we have serious divergence of opinion as to what the work of Peter D'Adamo aims to promulgate. Mine doesn't infer Fear.


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
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yaeli
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 5:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from yaeli
Thanks.

you are only safe in your own kitchen.
i.e., the only kitchen which you can safely guranatee is MSG-free is your own kitchen.




Revision History (1 edits)
yaeli  -  Monday, August 26, 2013, 5:26am
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yaeli
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 5:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j
And I don't know if yaeli's compliance involves periods of silence, too,

How come you don't know THAT?  


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yaeli
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j
Mine doesn't infer Fear.
Hope it does infer prudence though.



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san j
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 6:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from yaeli
Hope it does infer prudence though.


Reading labels?



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ruthiegirl
Sunday, August 25, 2013, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I get VERY sick if I eat any wheat, corn, or potato. My other avoids (such as dairy, soy, gluten-free oats, etc) cause much more subtle problems and I could safely ingest them once or twice a year, or eat food "contaminated" with any of them.

It really isn't safe for me to eat in many restaurants, and I rarely do. But there is at least one kosher "middle eastern style" restaurant where I've eaten a couple of times in the past few years with my extended family. I also managed fine in a burger joint with a bunless burger and a salad in place of the fries.

Back to the original topic of the thread: my SWAMI actually lists MSG as neutral! I don't have any MSG in my spice cabinet, and I don't buy any packaged foods containing it (as the ones with MSG are rarely free of the other things I need to avoid, and I don't trust that "natural flavors" are corn free.) I honestly don't know how I react to this substance as I've never had occasion to try it.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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yaeli
Monday, August 26, 2013, 5:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from san j

Reading labels?

Pouring out Love.



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yaeli
Monday, August 26, 2013, 5:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
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As a child of 7 or 8 (maybe earlier) in the 50's I was startled when I tasted for the first time what my mother served as a "chicken soup" and which was prepared from dried mix stuff, which had recently made a debut on the shelves. I immediately sensed I was under attack. I found the prominent taste of the MSG most repulsive, and the relusting "soup" was nothing like real chicken soup. What a disappointment.


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Enobattar
Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


Macrobiotic folks are seeking physical health.
Many of them also tend to hyper-restriction.
When they reach the point of refusing to eat anything they themselves have not prepared, in the interest of their health, the problem may be less the manufacturers'/ industry's than their own.

Peter D'Adamo has frequently had to remind us of such principles. I quoted him on another thread yesterday with this:

Demanding punctilious control to the point of not eating anything one hasn't oneself prepared, believing that to be one's only recourse for safety, is actually a departure from D'Adamo's diets' mooring in larger Life principles. It's a confounding of one's personal control-need with his work, where it is proposed on his Forum.

It depends what one's goals are for his Forum.
Mine have to do with the attractiveness of his teaching, facilitating its implementation.
It can be enjoyably integrated into one's own chosen life and lifestyle.


Clearly we have serious divergence of opinion as to what the work of Peter D'Adamo aims to promulgate. Mine doesn't infer Fear.


Thank you, thank you, thank you for this response.  You'll never know how much I needed to be reminded of this principal that Dr. D. made clear way back in ER4YT.

Also, if you ever read other nutritional books, look up the one written by Dr. Stephen T. Chang.  He (while not knowing anything about the blood type connection when his book was written) gives sound principals that actually agree with Dr. D. on more than one point.  Fascinating book.

Personally, though, I needed to be reminded of this soooo much!  It has been getting to the point that I won't eat hardly anything when I'm away from home that isn't on my 'list' of Neutral to Diamond foods.  This is not a good thing (for me anyways).  It is slowly alienating me from my family and friends AND also making me weaker in the long run.

Especially being a nonnie, I believe I need to keep my liver in shape (as Dr. Chang phrases it) when he advises his readers to occasionally have some potato chips, etc.  He says it keeps the liver 'on its toes'.

And perhaps this is the best point... we are here on Earth to reach out and help those in need... from other members of our family to strangers....  That is my main purpose in life.

Eat to live.  Don't live to eat.  Living should be the emphasis.  And, as you have stated, eating is such a pleasure and means for interaction w/others.

While fervently continuing to be compliant in my own kitchen for the intent purpose to preserve my quality of life so that my children will not have unnecessary burdens as I age (in other words, to be independent until my end); you have now been the means to remind me to see the whole picture and realize how important it is to 'sacrifice' gladly (by eating wrong foods while visiting your dear children or siblings, etc.) so as not to offend or make them feel that they do not live up to my standards.

Oh, thank you, again for your post!


Romans 5:1-11  

BTD since 1997, GTD since 2007, SWAMI since 2011, Compliant since 3/13   Husband A+ sec.
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Chloe
Monday, August 26, 2013, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
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This thread was meant to be educational and wasn't meant to become a thread on the obsession of anyone's compliancy nor would I fault anyone who tries to be as compliant as they believe they need to be or wish to be.  These are healing diets......and many are dealing with serious health issues
that require very serious compliancy.

I got into an interesting discussion yesterday with a close friend who seems to be bombarded daily
with people driving her crazy with their political views....finding that when they don't agree with how
she feels in her heart, like seasoned lawyers try to convince her otherwise.  We decided in our
discussion that people really wish to be validated for their beliefs, not be convinced that they
have faulty thinking or have made a poor interpretation of facts.  Otherwise, this is judging another
and that to me is being self righteous.

I simply shared some facts about the harmful effects of MSG for which some might overly react and others might not react at all.  The fact that it's hidden by manufacturers slyly using words to distract us from this toxin was to let others know that this exists.

Judge the toxins.....THe last thing we ever want to do on this forum is judge a person's beliefs
about the choices they've made for themselves.  If you wish to cook every morsel of food in your own kitchen 24/7....go for it.  It's your right to do whatever you like.  


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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san j
Monday, August 26, 2013, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi, Enobattar.
It looks like when you quoted me you forgot to quote Dr. D'Adamo -- it's a drawback of this site that quoted material is not quoted within a quoted post.    

Thanks for your comments on macrobiotic extremes. Having first seen that phenomenon 25+ years ago, I've often noticed it since, with reference to other diets. Glad the perceptions encourage you to use the D'Adamo teaching enjoyably.  


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san j
Monday, August 26, 2013, 8:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
MSG is found naturally in many natural foods like ripe cheeses. As a Teacher who should be getting a lot of cheese, I figured out pretty quickly I could tolerate none of them for this reason... Glutamate affects the brain, the nervous system and rarely does a doctor associate adverse symptoms from MSG with this chemical.... MSG can cause seizures.  Many people don't realize they're ingesting this chemical and many different terms are used to disguise this ingredient.  If you're an Explorer, you might be very aware of your sensitivities to chemicals....but for the rest of us....symptoms you can't explain might be connected to your ingestion of MSG.

Hi, Chloe.
For my part, I read your OP.
I am permitted mushrooms and parmesan cheese (not tomatoes or their juice - very high in glutamate), but I don't consider the enjoyment of them to be "ingestion of MSG" or "chemicals".
Likewise, I season with salt and do not consider the term "salt" to be a "disguise" for the "chemical" sodium chloride. I have enjoyed wine and not called it "imbibing ethanol".  

My understanding of glutamate is that our bodies manufacture it. Furthermore it is present in the proteins we eat. Human breast milk is high in sugars and glutamate.

I understand that there are people who must avoid high-glutamate foods.
I am truly sorry that it sends you to the ER. It would be interesting to know if you had such a reaction to mother's milk as a newborn.

As for restaurants:
Here in SF, many Chinese restaurants advertise that they do not add MSG to their dishes, meaning that the natural glutamates in most foods are the glutamates the diners are "ingesting". I've never known a Chinese restaurant to use parmesan cheese, but they do use plenty of mushrooms.
Italian restaurants use loads of both parmesan cheese and tomatoes, so it would seem that would be where the people with the "Glutamate-problem" are suffering the most (though I've never seen that published anywhere   ).

Don't worry, darlin'. It's not a bad topic, IMO. Inability to eat glutamate must be, to say the least, a very debilitating condition.


D'Adamo proponent since 1997
dadamo Blogger and Forum participant since 2005
Cyber-Newbie, as of 2004

Revision History (1 edits)
san j  -  Monday, August 26, 2013, 9:11pm
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yaeli
Tuesday, August 27, 2013, 1:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
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Quoted from Dr. Peter D'Adamo
Finally, there is the question of whether making things ‘easy’ for the body really serves our best long term interests. Many of the physiologic functions of the body are hormetic; they benefit from challenge and mild stress. Like exercise, they require challenge in order to induce a more robust response. On the other hand, over anticipating the needs of a complex system can actually increase its dependence and fragility.

Many of the physiologic functions of the body are hormetic. Dr. D is presenting the hormesis principle as is: a question unanswered. The answer is in individuality. It is tolerance in its broad meaning. How much, how far the body - and the mind - and the soul - are recommended to tolerate toxins in order to grow stronger and healthier, and moreover, forgiving and compassionate. In short, to flourish and win.



Revision History (1 edits)
yaeli  -  Tuesday, August 27, 2013, 1:52am
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Chloe
Tuesday, August 27, 2013, 1:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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yaeli
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SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
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Thanks Chloe.


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Chloe
Tuesday, August 27, 2013, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 71


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Enobattar
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 5:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Romans 5:1-11  

BTD since 1997, GTD since 2007, SWAMI since 2011, Compliant since 3/13   Husband A+ sec.
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san j
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Since this interests you, here is the amino acid profile of mother's milk.
http://www.umamiinfo.com/images/stories/umami_science/milk_graf.gif

By a very wide margin, glutamate is the infant's "protein" punch.
There is more than 10x more glutamate in human than in cow's milk.

But, Chloe, it was just a question as to whether, therefore, you had to be put on formula.
No harm intended.  


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ruthiegirl
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Human milk is perfectly balanced for human babies- it contains the exact level of glutamate that human infants need, in perfect balance with other amino acids. Other foods might  be more reactive, even if they're lower in total glutamate, due to other factors in the food. One of the links talked about balancing glutamate with taurine, and there are likely other factors as well.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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san j
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Human milk is perfectly balanced for human babies- it contains the exact level of glutamate that human infants need, in perfect balance with other amino acids.

Exactly.
And of all the many amino acids comprising its protein "balance", glutamate is dominant, by a wide margin. In the whole panoply of amino acids, its level can be 60% higher than the #2 amino.
If the aminos in human breast milk were horses in a race, glutamate would be crossing the finish line while the #2 horse was still in the back stretch.
This is why I asked if our friend Chloe, for whom the ingestion of parmesano puts her health in urgent jeopardy, couldn't be breast fed as an infant. A logical question.

Hey - interesting corollary: The sheer dominance of glutamate in breast milk may go a long way toward explaining why humans like its distinctive flavor and why we're even having this conversation.  




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wayland B+
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If there is 10X more glutamate in human milk than cow's.....maybe I didn't get enough  
(For the first 6+ months of my life my parents bottle-fed me nothing but raw, full-fat Jersey cow milk with added lactose that they bought from a HFS.)
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Chloe
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 8:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j
Since this interests you, here is the amino acid profile of mother's milk.
http://www.umamiinfo.com/images/stories/umami_science/milk_graf.gif

By a very wide margin, glutamate is the infant's "protein" punch.
There is more than 10x more glutamate in human than in cow's milk.

But, Chloe, it was just a question as to whether, therefore, you had to be put on formula.
No harm intended.  


I was a bottle fed baby.  My mother's first child.  Either she didn't adequately learn how to breast
feed a baby or like my father once told me...."you made faces when your mother tried to nurse you
and turned your head".  I somehow intuit that I rejected my mother's milk.



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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san j
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 8:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
I rejected my mother's milk.

Fascinating, Chloe!


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Chloe
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 9:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j

Fascinating, Chloe!


Jusr want to make a correction.  MSG, the ingredient added to foods is the problem for me. A soup laden with an obviously heavy dose of MSG caused me to pass out after having super weird symptoms where I felt lightheaded, drooling, seeing spots and lines in my visual field and
then suddenly, everything went dark...

Parmesan cheese and many other aged cheese gives me a massive headache that is not life
threatening, nor do I think MSG as an ingredient would actually cause anaphylactic shock although
I'm careful when I'm reading labels and try to totally avoid all forms of disguised MSG...

Aged cheeses are high in tyramine and cause headaches in many individuals so perhaps there is another issue related to me not doing well on parmesan.

This link explains the difference between free and bound glutamate.  I only know my issue is
with the chemical additive monosodium glutamate.  Often found as a flavor enhancer and used
pretty often in restaurants, especially Chinese.

http://www.msgmyth.com/discus/messages/7/698.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 9:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It sounds to me like your mom had zero support with breastfeeding. Babies have a "rooting reflex" and turn their heads towards a cheek that's stroked. Many women try to turn the baby's head towards the breast by holding onto the opposite cheek- which just makes the baby turn away from the breast. Don't touch the baby's head at all and brush your nipple against the baby's cheek and it all works just fine.

But much of that information was "lost" for a time in urban areas of the world. It was never forgotten in rural areas, so thankfully it wasn't lost forever. When Chloe was a baby, breastfeeding information and support simply wasn't available in most non-rural areas. Some women still breastfed, but those who hit "little bumps on the road" just switched to formula because they simply didn't know there were other options. There really WEREN'T other options for them at that time, with the information and support they had.

So, we don't know how baby Chloe would have done on breastmilk because it wasn't available to her. Nor do we know what her health would be like now if she had been successfully breastfed.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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Victoria
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
This thread was meant to be educational and wasn't meant to become a thread on the obsession of anyone's compliancy nor would I fault anyone who tries to be as compliant as they believe they need to be or wish to be.  These are healing diets......and many are dealing with serious health issues
that require very serious compliancy
.

. . people really wish to be validated for their beliefs, not be convinced that they have faulty thinking or have made a poor interpretation of facts.  Otherwise, this is judging another and that to me is being self righteous.

Judge the toxins.....THe last thing we ever want to do on this forum is judge a person's beliefs about the choices they've made for themselves.  If you wish to cook every morsel of food in your own kitchen 24/7....go for it.  It's your right to do whatever you like.  


Thank you, Chloe.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Chloe
Friday, August 30, 2013, 12:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
It sounds to me like your mom had zero support with breastfeeding. Babies have a "rooting reflex" and turn their heads towards a cheek that's stroked. Many women try to turn the baby's head towards the breast by holding onto the opposite cheek- which just makes the baby turn away from the breast. Don't touch the baby's head at all and brush your nipple against the baby's cheek and it all works just fine.

But much of that information was "lost" for a time in urban areas of the world. It was never forgotten in rural areas, so thankfully it wasn't lost forever. When Chloe was a baby, breastfeeding information and support simply wasn't available in most non-rural areas. Some women still breastfed, but those who hit "little bumps on the road" just switched to formula because they simply didn't know there were other options. There really WEREN'T other options for them at that time, with the information and support they had.

So, we don't know how baby Chloe would have done on breastmilk because it wasn't available to her. Nor do we know what her health would be like now if she had been successfully breastfed.


In 1942, the year I was born, moms were kept in the hospital with their newborns for over a week....If nursing was supposed to begin in the hospital, you'd think a nurse
would have helped my mother succeed.  WIll never know....although now I have a different perception of the role I played in not being nursed.  You're right...likely poor technique and not
the story my dad told that I rejected being nursed.

And yet this didn't take place in a non rural area. I was born in Bronx Lebanon Hospital. And after the war, it became rather fashionable to bottle feed babies.  THe bad part was that this was prior to commercial formulas which at least contained nutrients. (still a poor replacement for
mother's milk)  Most babies who weren't nursed in my generation were fed sweetened ( Karo syrup) cow's milk.  OMG corn syrup, casein and lactose......How did my generation survive with
such a pathetic start in life.




"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Victoria
Friday, August 30, 2013, 1:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe

Most babies who weren't nursed in my generation were fed sweetened ( Karo syrup) cow's milk.  OMG corn syrup, casein and lactose......How did my generation survive with such a pathetic start in life.


I was one of those babies, Chloe.  My mother was a school teacher and I was born the end of June.  She nursed me for a few months - I think 3 or 4 - by driving home on her lunch break.  During the day, my Grandmother bottle-fed me with Karo syrup and canned milk.  

It is no wonder that I had bronchitis most of my life and IBS.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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ruthiegirl
Friday, August 30, 2013, 2:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
And yet this didn't take place in a non rural area. I was born in Bronx Lebanon Hospital. And after the war, it became rather fashionable to bottle feed babies.  THe bad part was that this was prior to commercial formulas which at least contained nutrients. (still a poor replacement for
mother's milk)  Most babies who weren't nursed in my generation were fed sweetened ( Karo syrup) cow's milk.  OMG corn syrup, casein and lactose......How did my generation survive with
such a pathetic start in life.
I'm well aware of the history of bottle feeding. Very,very few women breastfed in urban areas such as NYC. People in rural areas where they couldn't get to the hospitals, and where there just wasn't money to buy the "fashionable modern formula" when breastmilk is free- those are the places where the arts of breastfeeding were never lost. By the time my oldest brother was born in 1969, bottle feeding was the norm on Long Island. There was ONE La Leche League chapter in all of LI, and there were only a dozen moms in the group. My mom had to really fight the system to nurse us.



Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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san j
Friday, August 30, 2013, 3:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
Jusr want to make a correction.  MSG, the ingredient added to foods is the problem for me.
...perhaps there is another issue related to me not doing well on parmesan...
I only know my issue is with the chemical additive monosodium glutamate.

Thanks for correcting yourself, Chloe.
The inability to metabolize glutamate, an essential amino acid, would be something very dangerous and serious, as you indicated in your OP:

Quoted Text
MSG is found naturally in many natural foods like ripe cheeses. As a Teacher who should be getting a lot of cheese, I figured out pretty quickly I could tolerate none of them for this reason.  I for one landed in the ER many years ago...Glutamate affects the brain, the nervous system...

I took you at your word and felt Pretty Bad for you.  


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Mrs T O+
Sunday, September 1, 2013, 12:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Unfortunately, I was bottle-fed, too. I was born in late 1947. My family was kind of anti-sugar, so I find it hard to believe I was any fed Karo syrup! Yuck! I wonder what they gave us.

I doubt that even rural areas nursed their babies that much at that time. If so, it must have been for a few months. Most farms probably had a cow for family milk.

By the time I had my kids 1976 & '79, I was convinced of nursing & was very active in LaLeche.  There is so much to learn about nursing & still in the 2010 decade there is still much misinformation!
It is saddening to me, but I have to learn not to anguish over other folks' decisions.


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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san j
Sunday, September 1, 2013, 3:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks, Chloe, for inspiring me to read about the amino acid, glutamine.
In its way, it stands head and shoulders above the others, with its extra nitrogen molecule to spare...
Feel good, girl.  


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