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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  How long before "Leaky Gut" antibodies are gone?
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How long before "Leaky Gut" antibodies are gone?  This thread currently has 6,398 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Friday, January 18, 2013, 10:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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I believe the biggest problem with leaky gut is that it causes our immune systems to create so many kinds of antibodies that we shouldn't have when our gut is healthy. With that in mind, what are your thoughts about how long it takes for those antibodies to go away once we are on the mend?
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aussielady582
Saturday, January 19, 2013, 12:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think it depends on how long the gut has been unhealthy, I once read it can take twice or more as long to mend, ie if the health issues have been there for 4 years, then it may take 7 or 8 years to regain really tip-top health!  I have chronic health issues for most of my life, and every day I know that I am one step closer to feeling really great, ie every day, the gut heals more and more, provided one gives it the proper nutrition designed for humans and your own individual system and keeping out things that should not be there, ie pharmaceuticals, antibiotics, etc. This varies with each person.  I think it is good to read some of the paleo books ie Dr Loren Cordain, or Mark Sisson, etc to give a broader view of nutrition and how different foods (grains, legumes, some dairy foods, excess sugars/sweeteners/high gi fruits, pseudo grains such as quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, chia seeds) can slowly damage the intestinal lining, and lead to chronic inflammation in the body. Dr D is terrific and I will always listen to BTD and GT recommendations; I also needed to read more to fully understand what happened to my own health. Some people can have more damage if one tries to eat a vegan diet or macrobiotic diet; as a type O and probably nonnie, undigested foods and grains, etc lead to damage, esp if one doesn't have much fat in the intestines/system to deflect damage and digestive enzymes are lacking.  Keep reading/researching and have faith that the body/gut will heal in time. I am already noticing benefits; ie better sleep, smoother and thicker hair, better concentration, better mood, more energy, improved elimination, softer facial skin, muscle is coming back on to my body too. Your body/health will let you know you are on the right track. Best of luck!
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TJ
Saturday, January 19, 2013, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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That's discouraging to think it will take years. The autoimmune activity seems like the worst aspect of leaky gut.
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Amazone I.
Monday, January 21, 2013, 2:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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to use *Moducare* might be one option... next..while implementing MAP & B-vits in lager amounts... I observed that exactly this problem incl. the leaky gut will heal up much much quicker.... but you need to take the supps. consequentely... I often observed after a while a certain *lögèrté) in the intake of clients... .......... the same in and for psychological disorders... they need to take their supps consequently as they do for the normal allopathic medication but nope...so far how can we expect any true improvements ....


MIfHI K-174
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lolazbean
Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 5:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I found out via my ND and live blood analysis that Leaky Gut Syndrome was the "root" based on diet, and prescription antibiotcs, cause of my health woes after every other doctor told me I was fine. I don't know about you but I had the the following:
Severe mental "fog"
Severe fatigue, even when I was able to get a good nights sleep
Insomnia
Very irritable, often for no reason at all
Mood swings
Weight gain, most in the belly area
Irratic bowel movements, either constipated or diahrea often
anxiety on occasion
heart palpataions (leaky gut usually throws off hormonal balance and this is often an effect of that)
hot flashes in the morning ( I was 39)

I did NOT tell him what I was feeling, I was suspicious based on prior doctor visits who's help included telling me to get more sleep or take an anti-depressant, so I wanted to hear what he thought first. Analysed my blood, then asked me if I felt the above symptoms - I began to cry, finally someone gets it! He also explained that because yeast & bacteria were enetering my blood system, they were also congesting my liver, as it had to try to elimante those things also, when it shouldn't have to. He suggested to heal this by following the Blood Type Diet for my blood type and to be diligent about avoiding any gluten, sugar, dairy, corn, peppers, peanuts or potatos and watch for them as they are hidden in many food products. Basically, just eat food in as natural state as possible and as organic and fresh as you can.

The only supplements he suggested I take were a top quality digestive enzyme, as I was not producing enough on my own and powdered flora, specific for my type. On my own, I found out about L-Glutamine and asked him if he felt it was something I could add, he said I could and I added it.

I felt the same as you at first, years??? So, depressing felt like I would never "heal" BUT after 1 week of this, my brain fog was gone! After 3 weeks I could stay out of bed before 5pm, and for some reason, I felt "sexier" for lack of a better word and my husband picked up on my improved confidence. At 6 weeks I was playing football with my children, in the evening, could not believe it. I even began to loose weight and slept at night!

I went for a follow up live blood analysis 4 months later, it showed while my liver was still congested and pretty strained, the bacteria and yeast were GONE from my blood. I kept telling my ND I had faithfully been following my diet, each time he chuckled, he then explained everyone tells him that, but based on the blood anaysis he is able to know he is fibbing and who isn't, clearly he said I had stuck with the plan. That is not too say my leaky gut is fully healed, and I'm sure if I went back to eating the way I did, all syptoms would be back, the intestine has microscopic "holes" in it, will it take another 6 years to fully heal, I don't know but I do know you can feel and be so much better, getting the "take years" out of my head and just trying what he told me made al the difference in the world, and he introduced me to the BTD, which I have fully embraced, but I am not always strong and do slip from time to time, ie. a birthday party, a bad case of pms - but I forgive myself and don't let it become a reason to stop and I say the phrase Live to Eat or Eat to Live.

My response is long, but when I learned of this for me, I felt very alone - I just want you to know you are not! And no, healing to a point where life is better - does not take years.
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PCUK-Positive
Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 5:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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The gut may take a while to heal completely, but as it gets better it helps. also understand that the antibodies go after only 21 day (perhaps I'm thinking of something else.

also id you are avoiding wheat, gluten, soya, casein you are not hurting the stomach and therefore yourself so much.

this usually show in things like the skin becoming clearer, less rashes, less spaced behaviour etc.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Lin
Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 5:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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lolazbean,  Wow I had very similar experience to you starting from late 30's.   Wish I had known about Blood Type diet back then.  I've made some good progress but still working on liver, like you that seems to have taken a big hit and I have trouble digesting fat (gall bladder issue also) so that makes it hard to do cheese which is supposed to heal gut.  
You said you gave up dairy, which I did for many years.  
Do you eat yogurt ? or any cheese?  
Lin


Gluten/Casein and Yeast sensitivity.
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Averno
Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Great story, Lolazbean. I, like many here, have had similar experiences. We are true believers.
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TJ
Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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lolaz, I have similar symptoms. I started BTD in late 2007, and while I've certainly made progress, I'm a long way from healed. Lyme disease may be playing a role. I'm still struggling even with being off all grains since January 2nd. That's great that you were able to find a doctor that pointed you toward the BTD.
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TJ
Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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A question, lolaz: so your gut microbes were escaping your intestine and getting into your blood? That's scary! Is that typical with leaky gut?
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PCUK-Positive
Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ
A question, lolaz: so your gut microbes were escaping your intestine and getting into your blood? That's scary! Is that typical with leaky gut?


yes


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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TJ
Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 8:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ew, gross! No wonder I feel so crappy.
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prunella
Thursday, January 24, 2013, 1:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lolaz, you nailed it!  The symptoms you listed have developed over the past 20 years, escalating in the past 5 years. All the medical tests by my PCP and rheumatologist are in the normal range. I have been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, despite the sero-negative test results. No referrals to a gastroenterologist.  My acupuncurist/ND has been most helpful regarding diet. The other docs seem bewildered and probably think I am nutty.  

No practitioner has investigated or mentioned leaky gut. I feel incredibly lucky to have found BTD and Swami. Is there any point in seeking that diagnosis? I feel like Swami, BTD protocols  and homeopathy and acupuncture are addressing the prominent concerns. I actually feel encouraged to think that maybe a few years of swami will lead to improvement!  

Thank you Dr D!!   




The sun, with all those planets around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.

Galileo
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AKArtlover
Sunday, January 27, 2013, 3:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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heal gut while rotating foods (IgG reactive foods no more often than every 5th day after a time of healing). i just found out from one docs experience that potentially some foods may be reacting from forming a bond with something the body doesn't like i.e. mercury or another metal. once the metal isn't an issue, the food isn't either. at least i'm pretty sure that was what he said. healing my brain right now. that was the gist. also, there is a type of therapy that can be done to rid the body of the memory of it. it's an energetic thing. i'll have to find the card i picked up. i read about it and heard about the great results with it previously. in the process of a big house cleaning/organization so i'll surely come across it.

i thought i saw something about it on this page, http://tenpennyimc.com/allergy-elimination/ though she was calling it a different name(similar to the one i had heard of) and has since switched. i'll do my best to remember to update you when i find that card. when i hear good things about something from at least 3 sources, my ears really perk up.

i should just look on quackwatch


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Sunday, January 27, 2013, 3:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
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"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Sunday, January 27, 2013, 3:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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casein, etc was sabatoging me. it is often an issue for those with gluten issues. it has a similar shape. the lyme has a similar shape to these as well. this doc talked about it in a download he once had up. clued me in a bit. pretty positive i don't have lyme. http://www.stevenenninger.com/SteveNenninger/My_Approach.html


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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TJ
Sunday, January 27, 2013, 2:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you for the links, AK. I will try to read them today after church (and after a nap).

I don't know about Lyme disease either. The Lyme protocol supplement I take helps, but it's very anti-inflammatory in a general sense, so why shouldn't it help if I have inflammation for whatever reason? I think a part of my problem is that I'm just malnourished, in addition to/in connection with the leaky gut-caused inflammation.

I believe more and more in energetics. I have a friend and coworker who is also an herbalist who taught me a good way to do energy testing on myself. It's interesting that my body gave me the go-ahead to try eggs again just a couple days ago. I'm still skeptical about that but I'll try. Maybe my body has forgotten what eggs do. I wouldn't be surprised if, after eating them again a few times, they no longer tested good for me.

Casein is clearly a problem for me, too. Have you also had trouble with whey protein AK? I'm not as sure about that. If I could eat whey (or eggs, or both), that would provide some highly valuable options for nourishing my body that I really need. Since I quit grains, I'm down from 135 to 130 lbs. (at 5' 10.5"). That is totally the wrong direction! While I sort of expect some initial loss from detox, it should be coming back.
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AKArtlover
Sunday, January 27, 2013, 5:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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body can crave sulfer even when not metabolizing correctly (or maybe because of). molybdenum is helping me with achiness related to the conversion issue. it runs some kind of conversion reaction with the sulfer.  my swami is rich in sulfer foods, and i figure i kicked things into overdrive with detox and couldn't keep up. almost all my IgG's were sulfer rich foods (and ones that grab metals- another piece of it). soooo much to learn. food is often depleted and/or incorrect ph to absorb molyb. my IgG showed reaction to all dairy, though i was loving the whey a long while back when i saw dr. d (probably when "leaking" though-- for the glutithione).

i am dropping metals like crazy right now, my doc says from my labs. i am having ammonia issues as well.

ammonia is highly inflammatory. pieces of the puzzle coming together for me, Praise God!

eat your adzuki beans if they are on swami, the label on a bag i bought showed they were high in molyb.

killing off the bad guys and supporting the good guys, i think for me is more important than dropping all grains. i am still eating rice, quinoa, amaranth, and millet- but i'm using digestive enzymes and betaine (among other stuff). i have to have the calories from somewhere. i'm on low meat protein and do use the protein powder by dr. d and another one quite frequently but have to watch the sulfer with them and the ammonia. a lot of the good veg are sulfer rich and the protein has ammonia as a byproduct of breakdown by those baddies in the gut. the betaine hcl i think really helps with that as does the protease. my doc said the sulfer thing will go by the wayside for me after we get this sorted and those foods will work properly for my body.

i'm getting my brain back. neurotransmitters doubled on last labs. i think i am going to take a basic chemistry class in the summer and then go from there. this stuff is fascinating and so many people can be helped by really getting down to the physiology. we'll see...


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14

Revision History (3 edits)
AKArtlover  -  Sunday, January 27, 2013, 6:17pm
AKArtlover  -  Sunday, January 27, 2013, 6:15pm
AKArtlover  -  Sunday, January 27, 2013, 6:11pm
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TJ
Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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I had my two scrambled eggs at lunch today. I'll probably eat a couple more tomorrow and see what I feel like on Tuesday.

I know that sulfites have been trouble for me in the past. At this point, though, I can eat grapes every day (as long as they are washed first). I think the protein, rather than the sulfur, is the problem I have with eggs.

I supplemented with molybdenum for a while. I'll have to look into that again... but ugh, another pill??? Adzuki beans are an avoid/toxin for me. I still eat peas, and decided not to get rid of otherwise compliant beans for now, which should provide it via diet.

I have been taking a double dose of digestive enzymes before each meal. I expect two benefits from that: first, I'll find it easier to absorb nutrients, and second, my food will break down faster and more thoroughly with fewer undigested bits to leak through into my blood and provoke auto-immunity.

I haven't gotten my brain back yet... but I have high hopes.
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AKArtlover
Monday, January 28, 2013, 1:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ

I haven't gotten my brain back yet... but I have high hopes.




"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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TJ
Monday, January 28, 2013, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Revision History (1 edits)
TJ  -  Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 4:09am
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lolazbean
Monday, January 28, 2013, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi again all,

Yes, the liver really does take a beating and my ND said it would take a long time, not to discourage, but to be informed - not only is it healing from the excess that Leaky Gut caused, it is also forced with every single thing to additionally clean out, every single day - think of a clogged up air filtre, we can't just simply remove it (our liver) and insert a new one, we have to just get every strain of "gunk" out, all the while new "gunk" is coming in...you can see how this would take awhile!

Fortunately, there are some really good things to help, eating foods per your type, organic as much as possible cost & availability wise, eating foods raw, if tollerated, great supplements and I should mention another HUGE thing for me was understanding the detoxing process. It was touched on a bit earlier, and I was told similar also "the body having memory". It was explained that yes, chances are once you start getting these "toxins", I'll just use that word to cover everything, bad bacteria, yeast, environmental, etc.. loosened from being stored in the body, they are still in your body, like Dr. D used as an example, cooking the turkey, removing it, there is still "gunk" stuck in the pan. In this state, some believe emotions are also released, such as anger, depression, anxiety, fatigue, etc.. due to things such as cortisol lodging itself into those fat cells and being stored, once you start "wakening" them and telling them to get out, those chemical reactions again take place "the feelings" are noticed again and often times this is why alot of people give up, and say this so called healing/ detoxing doesn't work - I feel worse than I did before I started. This was true for me and I initially had the same reaction.

My wonderful Holistic Health Practitioner/Acupressurist explained the above to me and told me it was a normal process, just hang in there and keep cleaning things out. As she believed in this we also worked on the meridians, (my first visit with her again, I was skeptical, silly me) that was a big help, in so many ways! Some days, it was just relaxing, other days I could honestly feel zipz, zaps, and zings all over my body, I ended up coming to love it so, I have been studying it and hope to attend and graduate from a respectible college of it! Also VERY IMPORTANT, my ND suggested very small doses of Flora, kill the bacteria off slowly because thinking if I take more I'll get rid of it faster, does harm, it kills them off too quickly, the liver and other organs can't keep up with ridding of them, and you end up making yourself more toxic!

Anyway, getting back to the detoxing while healing Leaky Gut, or any illness, it is key to not only get those things loosened but out. Things to help this include, therapies such as acupressure/acupuncture, massage, epsom salt baths, dry body brushing, hydrotherapy, sweating, tons of clean water, lymph massage, good old lemon/water and resting when you can!

In this day and age we are bombarded with YOU MUST EXERCISE! Yeah, right, how when you can barely do the dishes or have energy to brush your hair, right? It's ok - DON'T! Instead of expending that energy outwards, turn it inwards to heal, not only is it ok - it is a good thing for you (I had a hard time getting my head around this, but eventually I did and it is so true!) We wouldn't tell someone with a sweaty fever, hacking cough, runny nose to get off their butt and go jog or go to the gym, why... well, you feel differently when you or others have a condition you can see! Just because this is on the inside and you can't see it, does not mean it is not there, it very much is and being kind to yourself and using that energy to heal, for as long as you need, you will know, is a wonderful thing to do!

I'm not sure how long this was occuring in my body (I am 40 now) probably a long time, but I spent 5 years searching for a solution, that no traditional doctor came up with, nor even suggested, then I tried a different path and like I said, I had a doctor tell me everything I was feeling, the best part, my husband was with me and he saw me cry, not because I was sad, but finally I was understood and have a valid reason for feeling the way I did and it helped him in understanding and supporting also - I no longer had to feel ashamed by not "having anything done" around the house because I was too tired, my ND told him, honestly, the levels of bacteria in her blood and liver, I'm surprised she even gets out of bed in the morning!

Also, again it is important to point out this condition can affect other things such as hormones for men and women, amonst so many other things, I would really suggest going and getting a diagnose from an ND, everyone is so different and the levels of which you may be affected are also so different and honestly, just for the peace of mind, as mentioned too many "doctors" do tend to make you feel like you are crazy because they do not know and don't even consider options not in a text book. I still find it so weird after having my live blood analysis done (and seeing it for myself) why "doctors" prefer to look at someone's blood once it is "dead". I never knew all those different colored caps stood for the different chemicals added to the blood for testing and that the testing is basically taking that blood, spinning it in a machine and counting the numbers spewed out from it vs. looking at the health of the actual blood cell itself, is it weakened, is it stacked (acidic) is it flowing freely (alkaline) how does the plasma look, how well does the white cell ingest a bacteria, how fast do those white cells move - this also helped me to understand why it took forever for a cut or vruise to heal, I have a good number of white cells, but they are lazy, the move very slowly, my red cells were quite pale, yes, I'm low on iron etc... the more I learned the more angry I became at our current standard of health care, I admit, then I let it go and was just grateful to have wonderful health CARE providers out there and to have been able to see, learn and experience the difference.

Some people may classify Live Blood Analysis as "hogwash", well some people say the same thing about BTD, though more often than not those are the same people who prefer chemically made synthetic pills to heal, then are willing to get another prescrition to combat the "side effects" of the first pill and so on and so on...Please don't get me wrong, it's very clear where my strongest faith is, but, yes there are situatios where a surgery, or specific medication is life saving - I get that, truly I do...but if we can start using health "care" as prevention and being pro-active prior to facing these preventable dis-eases, then why aren't we?, and if this is your goal so called, alternative health care is the way to go, perhaps alternative is in fact a good word, I for one much like this aleternative better.

All healing takes time, the learning never ends from those us it helps and those who teach, but it is wonderful to have support like this, I am always grateful for what I learn or at least get understanding from on this site and I am grateful for Dr. D and each person who offers to share in one way or another. Wishing us all good health and great spirit!
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TJ
Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 4:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Location: Midvale, UT, USA
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I had a good day today. Energy, brain functioning more or less like it should, I got a lot done at work, and I even felt well enough to attend a social event this evening. I ate eggs yesterday and today. Tomorrow will be telling. I hope it's another good one. It would be marvelous to have eggs back in my diet.

I have had experiences in the past where eating something that wasn't good for me made me feel better at first but much worse the next day (food hangover?) If I feel wrecked tomorrow, I'll know that's just what happened to me.
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AKArtlover
Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 11:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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ABJoe
Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 4:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
I have had experiences in the past where eating something that wasn't good for me made me feel better at first but much worse the next day (food hangover?) If I feel wrecked tomorrow, I'll know that's just what happened to me.
I don't know that I agree that this is a food hangover.  I quite often get 2 days of good followed by several that are much worse.  I know from experience now, that these are times when I got the nutrition balanced and the body rested enough to have a couple of days of feeling really good and energetic.  When I get these days, it usually stimulates a period of "deep cleaning" that throws me back into the "bog".  I am so thankful for the couple of days, however, because that reminds me of how good I can (and will) feel once all of the back cleaning completes.

I know it is a long process to clean and heal as much as I needed to do, so I appreciate the good days, but also to not overdo on those days simply because I do feel some better.  I still do more, but just not overdo because I know that more activity stimulates a heavier "down" period...



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