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Estogen Dominance and Soy  This thread currently has 1,230 views. Print Print Thread
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Dirty
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 4:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

A- Warrior ISTP
Spring: Growth, Peace.
Posts: 38
Gender: Male
Location: Forest of Georgia
Age: 35
Moderators:
I don't know if I'm posting this in the right place. If not, please exile this thread to wherever you see fit.

I am trying to follow the SWAMI diet as much as I can, but is a very difficult thing for me. There is nothing in the SWAMI questionnaire that asked anything about adrenal fatigue, among other problems I have, so I don't think the data I get from my SWAMI is 100% for me. Most of it I can dig, but for instance, soy is a highly beneficial food. Even the BTD recommends soy big time. I don't know much about soy, other than it's one of the most genetically modified plants out there and finding non GMO and organic soy is very difficult. I have phase 2 adrenal fatigue, and one of the things my naturopath said to me was that I am estrogen dominant and he gave me some DHEA supplements and some progesterone creme to take for a while. One of the elevated potential disease factors with this was increased risk of prostate cancer and type 2 diabetes. I have read a little about certain plants and phytoestrogens and soy always comes up. With soy being such a huge part in my recommended SWAMI diet, is this something that I should move to my avoid list for awhile or is it not something that has the potency to cause any more damage?

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Drea  -  Monday, June 4, 2012, 12:06am
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Victoria
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 5:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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It would be fine to leave it off for now, as you gather more information pertaining to your question.  There will always be specific health conditions that we humans have, that we must adapt our diet to.

I don't know the answer, but if you are a high prostate cancer risk, just hold off on it as others come on and discuss what you are asking about.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Chloe
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 9:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,429
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Location: Northeast USA
Age: 71
Just wanted to ask you a few questions before we get into the reasons why soy is good for some
As.....and before you decide whether this applies to you or not....can you please just share more
information.

Are you absolutely certain you've been measured correctly and in fact are a Warrior?  The difference between soy intake for a Teacher or a Warrior is vastly different from an Explorer. So if by any slight chance you were an Explorer, then eating soy in large quantities might not be as good for you as it is for me.

Do you know your secretor status? Does your naturopath have a professional SWAMI in his office?  Who measured you?

There is a huge amount of material on this site regarding soy and most written by Dr. D...but first, can we be totally sure you're a Warrior.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lola
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 9:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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the soy recommendations in your swami pertain to you, not the one size fit all advice you read an hear everywhere....

given all the variables I hope you set on swami......the recommendations are targeted to you

so use common sense when applying the guidelines


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Andrea AWsec
Sunday, June 3, 2012, 11:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI INFJ Warrior Taster
Kyosha Nim
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Concentrate on what you can eat-- and work around the soy.

Tofu and tempeh are only two of the foods on my list, if I chose not to eat those I would find hundreds of other foods to eat.

Look at your list of beans and begin to work on those.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Dirty
Monday, June 4, 2012, 12:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

A- Warrior ISTP
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Posts: 38
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Age: 35
Chloe: I don't know my secretor status. I will be getting that soon. The naturpath doesn't have a "professional Swami". I don't know if they even know about Swami. They mainly do biofeedback. The adrenal test was done third party. As for the measurements, though I can't say anything is 100%, but my wife and I did the geno testing. I use dial calipers and micrometers on a daily basis and she can read them to so if we misread the measurements, it was from a lack of precision of the instruments that came with the kit. If it helps, I did the "quick test" or whatever it's called, and it told me I'm a warrior, but still did the rest of the test and came up with the same results.

I don't doubt that soy should be a good food for my blood and geno type, but nothing in those test or the Swami ask anything about estrogen dominance. If soy is good for type A warrior without estrogen dominance, no problem. My question is if an estrogen dominant person is supposed to lower his estrogen levels, aside from whether or not the source is good for a person without to much estrogen, wouldn't it seem that one with estrogen dominance may need to stay away from the source until his estrogen levels were normal?

I just don't know how soy affects the estrogen levels of the human body. If may not be enough to make any difference at all. Or it could be enough to make all the difference, like red clover and yams, and other plants that possess phyto estrogens and are usually use as supplements to increase or maintain "proper" estrogen levels. I have even heard that beer increases estrogen levels, though depending on the crowd of people it may seem like it increases testosterone.
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grey rabbit
Monday, June 4, 2012, 12:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamix 47% Teacher-INFP
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Quoted Text
I have even heard that beer increases estrogen levels, though depending on the crowd of people it may seem like it increases testosterone.


You would need to consume a large quantity of soy for it to have an estrogenic effect - think processed foods where soy, and GMO soy in particular, are abundant. Nevertheless, if you do not feel comfortable eating soy, then there are many other alternatives for protein as Andrea suggested. Don't eat foods that make you feel uncomfortable, they are not helping you.


“Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It’s perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we’ve learned something from yesterday.”

John Wayne's last words
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passionprincess
Monday, June 4, 2012, 2:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I am estrogen dominant and soy is an avoid for a nomad like me. However, I know there are some other foods on my diamond and superfood list that might have estrogenic effects (like beer). I am avoiding beer until I get my hormones back in balance. Even if some foods are superfoods and diamonds, if you know or feel that they are making your other conditions worse, just avoid it for now. The food list for each genotype is very very long. Not eating one or two item off the list for a while will not hurt you.

Good health and good luck!


Simplifying my life. Only the best for my body, mind, and soul!

Food: Diamonds > Superfood > Neutrals > Black Dots > Avoids
People: Diamonds > Superfriends > Neutrals > Questionables > Avoids

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Lola
Monday, June 4, 2012, 6:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted Text
nothing in those test or the Swami ask anything about estrogen dominance.


swami computes that and more considering bt, gt, age, sex, variables, medical hx and family hx, anthropometrics and so on, no worries


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ruthiegirl
Monday, June 4, 2012, 1:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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My understanding is that soy is a very weak phytoestrogen in As, while being a very strong one in Os and Bs. I think the A digestive system breaks down the soy completely, before any can leak out and mimic estrogen in the blood. Os and Bs aren't so good at digesting soy so more of the intact proteins leak out to wreck havoc in the system. I do know that Dr D has said that you'd need HUGE quantities of soy to affect estrogen levels in an A, while I know from personal experience that it doesn't take much to mess up my own cycles with soy consumption.

All the studies about soy and its estrogenic effects haven't looked at blood type.

However, if you don't have access to organic soy (or at least certified non-GMO soy) then you're probably best off avoiding it. Even if you do have access to organic soy, it's only one food. If you're unsure of its safety in your particular circumstances, there's plenty else to eat. You probably have a huge list of neutral and beneficial beans and nuts you can eat instead of soy.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  13yo B+ Jack


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Chloe
Monday, June 4, 2012, 4:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Dirty, my best suggestion would be to find out your secretor status because the more information
you can input into SWAMI, the more personalized your diet will be.  Also, if I were you I might
want to have someone re-measure you. I thought I was a Warrior and turned out to be a Teacher.

Sometimes measurements are almost too close to call...but in my case, the person measuring me
wasn't following the guidelines perfectly.  I had my husband watch the video showing how to measure
and he discovered hadn't measured me correctly.  My diet is light years different as a Teacher than
it was as a Warrior. But I've also had a professional SWAMI.

Soy's phytoestrogen properties are supposedly protective for As....filling estrogen receptor sites
with good estrogen so it crowds out xenoestrogens.  But still, wouldn't want to offer you any advice
on soy until you had the best possible personalized SWAMI and were absolutely sure the one you're
presently working from is accurately reflecting your true genotype.

Sometimes old lectin damage causes toxicity that is difficult to unload which might hold onto
excess hormones. Detoxical comes to mind.

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP053

Liver detoxing as well.

Maybe go back and watch the videos on measuring....just to be 100% sure.

scroll down to bottom
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=genotypediet


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Dirty
Monday, June 4, 2012, 5:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

A- Warrior ISTP
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Posts: 38
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Location: Forest of Georgia
Age: 35
Grey Rabbit & Ruthiegirl: Thats what I needed to know. If the soy I consume isn't making a significant change in estrogen levels, then it's something I can continue to use.

Chloe:
I dig what your saying, but I don't believe that I can get more accurate measures than I already have. We measure parts all day to usually within .0005 of an inch. The only way I could get a more accurate measurement is if I brought some of my shop instruments home and used them instead if what came with the kit. I could use a precision rule and get 1/64 of an inch tolerance on my legs and torso if that helps or use a precision protractor on my jaw and get within 1/10 of a degree of jawbone angle. I just didn't see a need to get that precise given the amount of difference needed for this test. Every measurement taken was obvious given the tolerances needed for the test. I didn't decide to be a warrior, nor do I feel the name implies any true merit considering my state of health and body type. I feel Court Jester would be more appropriate for my geno type. But for research sake, I'll except warrior. Deceptive, but sounds better.
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Chloe
Monday, June 4, 2012, 7:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,429
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Quoted from Dirty
Grey Rabbit & Ruthiegirl: Thats what I needed to know. If the soy I consume isn't making a significant change in estrogen levels, then it's something I can continue to use.

Chloe:
I dig what your saying, but I don't believe that I can get more accurate measures than I already have. We measure parts all day to usually within .0005 of an inch. The only way I could get a more accurate measurement is if I brought some of my shop instruments home and used them instead if what came with the kit. I could use a precision rule and get 1/64 of an inch tolerance on my legs and torso if that helps or use a precision protractor on my jaw and get within 1/10 of a degree of jawbone angle. I just didn't see a need to get that precise given the amount of difference needed for this test. Every measurement taken was obvious given the tolerances needed for the test. I didn't decide to be a warrior, nor do I feel the name implies any true merit considering my state of health and body type. I feel Court Jester would be more appropriate for my geno type. But for research sake, I'll except warrior. Deceptive, but sounds better.


OK then, Dirty,the-court-jester , if you're confident you're a Warrior, then I'm totally with you!

Hoping you're avoiding toxic estrogens.

Here's some information

http://www.katolenyardley.com/Xenoestrogens.pdf


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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