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I'm finally in treatment!  This thread currently has 7,951 views. Print Print Thread
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Ribbit
Monday, April 9, 2012, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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TJ, I'm sorry I've been reclusive.  I didn't even know you'd started a new thread here.  I hate being so out of it.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 7:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm almost done with my course of antibiotics.  On the whole, I haven't felt as well on them as I did before, but I expect that to turn around once I've finished them and the good bugs can start recolonizing.

I'm going to give a quick lesson here as context for what I say in the next paragraph.  There is a way of classifying bacteria call gram staining.  Gram positive (GP) bacteria turn pink or red when gram stained.  Gram negative (GN) bacteria don't take the stain well because them have a cell wall surrounding there cell membrane that GP bacteria lack.  All of the good bacterial strains are GP.  AFAIK, all GN strains of bacteria that can live in the human body are pathogenic.  They produce endotoxin, and are resistant to many antibiotics because their cell wall protects them.

The antibiotic I'm taking, vancomycin, is only effective against GP bacteria.  This has me somewhat concerned because killing off all the good bacteria and all the yeasts (with the terbinafine) leaves a vacuum of sorts for any the remaining GN bacteria to fill.  I'm going back to see the doctor today, and I'm going to ask about getting a course of antibiotic that only targets GN bacteria.  I've done my homework and discovered that there are a few such classes of antibiotics out there which either don't affect GP bacteria at all (monobactams and rifaximin), or that affect GN bacteria much more forcefully than their GP counterparts (aminoglycosides, and 2nd and 3rd generation cephalosporins).  I hope he will agree, but that's not my call.  If he doesn't think it's necessary then I will accept that counsel.

Quoted from Ribbit
TJ, I'm sorry I've been reclusive.  I didn't even know you'd started a new thread here.  I hate being so out of it.
NP, I'm just glad you have felt well enough to go out and live a real life.  
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JJR
Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Well, my 2 cents is you stay away from Antibiotics, but you seem to have a different approach than I.  The only reason I say that is because when I started with all my gut problems, I had too many antibiotics in a year and all of the yeast sights and info say that is a very probably cause to leaky gut.  When I was having my problems I FELT better when I was on them.  But a couple of days after I was off of them, crash.  And I feel like I've been cleaning up after that practice ever since.  But, I think I felt better on them because they were killing whatever junk I had going on.  Like lymes and what not.  But I think I paid a huge price in the gut for it.

That's just my experience and I'm just sharing.  This may not happen to you the way it did for me.  But I figured I'd throw it out there.  But correct me if I'm wrong, weren't you on antibiotics about 3-4 months ago also?


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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TJ
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 12:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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JJ, I was on antibiotics last year, on two different occasions.  Those probably didn't help me.  This feels like it's doing something good, since I'm also taking an antifungal and lots of probiotics with it.

The doctor went along with my thought process.  He has given me a two-week course of gentamycin, and he also gave me another antifungal, nystatin.
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ABJoe
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 12:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from TJ
All of the good bacterial strains are GP.  AFAIK, all GN strains of bacteria that can live in the human body are pathogenic.

The antibiotic I'm taking, vancomycin, is only effective against GP bacteria.  This has me somewhat concerned because killing off all the good bacteria and all the yeasts (with the terbinafine) leaves a vacuum of sorts for any the remaining GN bacteria to fill.

I don't know enough to discuss this in-depth, but there are pathogenic strains of both GP and GN bacteria.  It may be that the Dr. is going after the GP pathogens initially to get rid of any co-infections, then going after the GN infections...

Common gram-positive bacteria include Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, and Clostridium (botulism).  

Common gram-negative bacteria include H. pylorii (ulcer causing bacteria), Samonella (food poisoning), Neisseria gonorrhoeae (gonorrhea), Spirochetes (Lyme disease), Proteus and E. Coli (urinary tract infections).



RH-, ISTJ
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JJR
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I know I had H.Pylori also.  That really messed with my stomach.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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TJ
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 7:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from ABJoe
I don't know enough to discuss this in-depth, but there are pathogenic strains of both GP and GN bacteria.
Absolutely correct.

Quoted from ABJoe
It may be that the Dr. is going after the GP pathogens initially to get rid of any co-infections, then going after the GN infections...
He wasn't planning to go forward with the GN abx until I asked him about it and said that I'd like to give that a try.  I thought that was strange, but maybe the first round of abx is enough for most of his patients.  He did say that you can't ever get rid of all the bad guys, but he wants to get them under control so the good guys can get the upper hand.

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ABJoe
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from TJ
He wasn't planning to go forward with the GN abx until I asked him about it and said that I'd like to give that a try.  I thought that was strange, but maybe the first round of abx is enough for most of his patients.  He did say that you can't ever get rid of all the bad guys, but he wants to get them under control so the good guys can get the upper hand.

Oh that's right, he wasn't necessarily convinced that you had Lyme...  Probably why he wasn't going to go forward with the GN abx initially.


RH-, ISTJ
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TJ
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 7:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Spirochetes are GN, but I was thinking more about the other GN bugs that might be in my intestines.  After I'm satisfied that my gut has healed up properly, I plan to go on the Buhner herbal protocol to deal with the Lyme.
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Spring
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
JJ, I was on antibiotics last year, on two different occasions.  Those probably didn't help me.  This feels like it's doing something good, since I'm also taking an antifungal and lots of probiotics with it.

The doctor went along with my thought process.  He has given me a two-week course of gentamycin, and he also gave me another antifungal, nystatin.


So you are on Nystatin now.... I took it for two years, but it got rid of my candidiasis. Is the price still sky high?


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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TJ
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I've been very fortunate.  This doctor sent me to a compounding pharmacy  that mixes these specially for him.  I'm taking 2.5 ml of a 50 mg/ml vancomycin solution (that's 225 mg), 4x daily for 2 weeks.  The closest typical dosing I could find is a 250 mg capsule.  Using http://www.universaldrugstore.com/ as my reference, 56 capsules is $721.50.  The nystatin isn't nearly as expensive as the vancomycin.
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Spring
Friday, April 13, 2012, 5:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I was filling the caps from a big bottle of the stuff. It cost $300 per month 24 years ago. Toward the end the pharmacy gave me a break and started charging what it cost them.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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TJ
Friday, April 13, 2012, 7:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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24 years ago, $300 was a boatload more money than $700 now.
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Ribbit
Friday, April 13, 2012, 1:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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If Cowden stops working for me, I'll do Buhner.  It sounds really good.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Friday, April 13, 2012, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I don't think it will.  The Cowden protocol is so much more intricate.
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TJ
Friday, April 13, 2012, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ
The doctor went along with my thought process.  He has given me a two-week course of gentamycin, and he also gave me another antifungal, nystatin.
As I sort of expected, I am feeling pretty cruddy again, probably from a new wave of die-off.

I'm just glad things have been happening on this timetable.  Because of the background checking involved, I won't haven't to start work until after I'm completely finished with my antibiotic medicines.
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TJ
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 4:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I've made it through my first week of work!  I would have done great today, too, except that I went out with friends to eat Ethiopian food, then to add insult to injury we went to a dance and I couldn't leave when I wanted to because I didn't drive.    So I spent a lot of time in bed today, but I felt well enough by evening to enjoy a date with a woman I met at church last week.  We saw "Fiddler on the Roof" put on by a local theater.  I forget how much fun it is to see live entertainment until I'm actually there.  BTW, my date thinks her blood type is B+.  Somehow that always comes up....

It's promising that I was able to recover as quickly as I did.
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Possum
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 4:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Glad you enjoyed the night out & were well enough for it
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Amazone I.
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 7:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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TJ this is better then any intake of antibiotics... this is for life and not against ....


MIfHI K-174
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JJR
Wednesday, May 2, 2012, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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OooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOooooooooooooo a date.    

How did it go?


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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TJ
Thursday, May 3, 2012, 3:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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The date Saturday went well.  I have a second one for this coming Saturday.

I've started feeling bad again.  My throat has been sore for a few days.  I can barely keep myself awake by the end of the work day.  Toward the end of last week, I was feeling pretty paranoid about my crazy roommate.

And guess what I found out today?  My office building was flooded last fall.  We are on the ground floor, of course.  I hope they can move me to another location.  I will be worse than useless in another week or two, if my past experience is any indicator.
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Possum
Thursday, May 3, 2012, 3:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Aww shame TJ
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JJR
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Kyosha Nim
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Flooding.  Ugh.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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ABJoe
Thursday, May 3, 2012, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
And guess what I found out today?  My office building was flooded last fall.  We are on the ground floor, of course.

This should only be a problem if they didn't get it dried properly and it molded...  There are many possible issues in an office building - laser printer exhaust, carpet glue and paint fumes, perfume buildup, cleaning products, etc...


RH-, ISTJ
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Spring
Thursday, May 3, 2012, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
And guess what I found out today?  My office building was flooded last fall.  We are on the ground floor, of course.  I hope they can move me to another location.  I will be worse than useless in another week or two, if my past experience is any indicator.


As others, I can certainly relate to your feelings about the flooding in the building. I have avoided some problems in that sort of situation by providing my own really effective air cleaner with it blowing directly into my face! Made all the difference. It is not a large version, but it has two filters. One washable and one replaceable. It definitely works. One of them might be an option for you. I have a horrible reaction to mold. I don't think I would have survived as long as you have. I have popping in my ears, swollen lymphs and depression down through the floor right off the bat which leads into other problems. I have all those problems even before I can smell mold.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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