"Cytokine Storm".
This is what it was, folks.
This is what almost killed me this month.
I've been home from hospital now a week, suddenly gaining in strength the past few days.
It began as a typical sort of one-lobed community-sourced pneumonia but, in hospital while I was "under observation", went critical, spreading to all lung lobes and nearly suffocating me, landing me in Critical Care for 11 days.
I won't tell the whole story here.

But I've been surfing the cytokine lit on the web, and if you know of a really cool link, I'd be vitally interested. Do share what you know.
Thanks.

I read something on this website about elderberries and cytokine storms a while back.

Hope you get better soon.

Oh san j???!! I had no idea

Quoted from Christopher1

I read something on this website about elderberries and cytokine storms a while back.

Hope you get better soon.

Thanks; I had checked those out. Did a search under cytokines this a.m. But thought I'd put it out there to our unusually educated membership.

How awful, San J! I am so sorry.

Cytokine Storms and the Pharma Pirates

http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=2698

Why you should not take elderberry for cytokine storms/pandemic flu:

http://the-health-gazette.com/496/natural-antivirals/

Eek how can you tell which is cytokine storms/pandemic flu??!!

San J,
The Wikipedia article about Cytokine storms here describes the situation pretty well and has some discussion and references specifically about the lungs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

Here is the Quodlibet map for Adipocytokine signalling:
http://www.datapunk.net/quodlibet/quodlibet.pl?adipocytokine+

You can step through the map and study the operation and see what natural remedies are indicated for each gene, etc...

Quoted Text

Dr D
influenza has to do with it having the potential to ramp up cytokines, which increase the inflammatory reaction. This is more of a problem with people in the age group of 15 to 35  (older and younger
people have a more moderated immune response)"

happy to know you are not in that age rang and still among us!!!

So apart from avoiding those drugs that have been shown to have no effect in lung health & instead, using Gemfibrozil, free radical scavengers (antioxidants) & TNF-alpha blockers (some types of arthritis medications) & avoiding bananas... is there anything I have missed?

Dr D Knows

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP048

I know a few B's that take the security on a regular basis for a healthy immune response.

I have learned a lot about cytokine storm that I never knew before.  I have always wondered what made the Spanish flu so deadly!

San-J, I'm so glad you are on your way to better health, now.  You have gone through a tribulation that I would never, ever want to go through.  Thank you so much for sharing your story.  

San J,
Glad you are feeling better.  What a scare!

Oddly enough, I had some pain yesterday in what I think was my left bronchial tubes.  I went home and took some Elderberry Syrup with Honey (Apitherapy) and feel better today.  I hope that it was the right thing to do. Yesterday it was bothering me so much that I almost went to the Dr. but was so busy at work that I didn't.  I haven't had any problems breathing but I've had a terrible time with sinus issues....not enough that I feel like I need to constantly use the neti pot but just enough to feel like there's just a little drip there.  I think I may be eating too many eggs.  As a kid, I was allergic to the whites but I eat organic ones frequently now.  

Think I'll have another cup of green tea....

Jane

How scary! I'm glad you pulled through and you're on the mend now.

I'm still confused on the whole elderberry/ sick teenager thing. If my 17yo shows signs of illness, do I tell her to take more proberry or to cut it out for a few days?

I know that I'm old enough and DS is young enough not to worry about that. Besides, he hasn't gotten sick since I started giving him cod liver oil daily.

Jane - From reading about this it would not be such a good idea to eat honey if you are having a Cytokine Storm.


this is where the body over reacts - honey and the like may help an under active immune system, perhaps like an A's.

I think that's right.

Thanks, PC. Still rather confusing....

Quoted from Jane

San J,
Glad you are feeling better.  What a scare!

Oddly enough, I had some pain yesterday in what I think was my left bronchial tubes.  I went home and took some Elderberry Syrup with Honey (Apitherapy) and feel better today.  I hope that it was the right thing to do. Yesterday it was bothering me so much that I almost went to the Dr. but was so busy at work that I didn't.  I haven't had any problems breathing but I've had a terrible time with sinus issues....not enough that I feel like I need to constantly use the neti pot but just enough to feel like there's just a little drip there.  I think I may be eating too many eggs.  As a kid, I was allergic to the whites but I eat organic ones frequently now.  
Think I'll have another cup of green tea....Jane

Jane, I'm sure your entire system has not gone into super overdrive to combat a bronchial problem that is not life threatening. "Storm" isn't added to this description for nothing. It is a situation where the body is in the extreme of extremities! In other words, fighting desperately for its life. So taking elderberry in that type extremity would only aid the bad situation. Thankfully, there are many, many more things we could use to combat the "storm!" I have printed out all this info and highlighted all the pertinent information and hope that I or anyone I know ever has to use it!!!!!  

Another thing, it would be great if Dr. D. chose to enlighten us even further about what to do in this type crisis! I mean in terms that we can easily understand! Which he is so good at doing.

Thanks Spring.  I wasn't equating some discomfort with what San J went through....just wondering if I took the right stuff for what I had.  It's been bothering me for a while but yesterday it really hurt.  Took some Proberry caps in the morning and the liquid stuff when I got home and it's definitely better today but still there.  

Quoted from Jane

Thanks Spring.  I wasn't equating some discomfort with what San J went through....just wondering if I took the right stuff for what I had.  It's been bothering me for a while but yesterday it really hurt.  Took some Proberry caps in the morning and the liquid stuff when I got home and it's definitely better today but still there.  

I know, Jane. The thought never entered my mind. Unless I get really, really sick with something, elderberry is the first thing I grab!! Golden seal comes next if the elderberry doesn't handle it fast enough.  Ashwagandha and astragalus get thrown in, too, if things don't get better pretty soon! Along with the normal remedies of drinking lots of liquids, etc. Glad you are feeling better. Sometimes those things can linger forever, though, it seems. I had something like that earlier in the fall and was afraid I was going to eventually have to take an antibiotic, but I managed to escape that. I thank SWAMI!!! I do not like being sick with anything!! At all!!

Quoted from Spring

Jane, I'm sure your entire system has not gone into super overdrive to combat a bronchial problem that is not life threatening. "Storm" isn't added to this description for nothing. It is a situation where the body is in the extreme of extremities! In other words, fighting desperately for its life. So taking elderberry in that type extremity would only aid the bad situation. Thankfully, there are many, many more things we could use to combat the "storm!" I have printed out all this info and highlighted all the pertinent information and hope that I or anyone I know ever has to use it!!!!!  

Yes, Spring, that's right.
The "Storm" really began, according to the pulmonologist, after I was in the hospital. I was admitted through the ER to a regular patient room "for observation", after the ER chest Xray showed pneumonia in one lobe. And I was very sick already, believe me, coughing and vomiting. But over the two days, my oxygen saturation was only deteriorating, and the capacity of a regular ward to furnish me with the vast amount of outside oxygen I needed was exhausted: So I was assigned to the ICU, where the life-death struggle really took place. This is where the Cytokine Storm, flooding my lungs with fluid precisely when they needed to be drained and dried-out, occurred. The pulmonologist later explained that the cytokines were rendering my blood vessels hyperpermeable. You want that permeability for the transport of fluid AWAY from the lungs, but by this point all lobes of both lungs had pneumonia.

Know that the overall health / immune-strength of the typical victim of Cytokine Storm is extremely good/strong/hardy. (And apparently I am MUCH older than that typical patient!) From what I have gathered so far, too, the Critical Care team decided to use my natural strength against the excessive immune reaction and, in conjunction with Killer Antibiotics, yes, did permit my own body to gain in strength to fight off the overreaction. Obviously they made some very good decisions in the heat of battle; the lethality of Cytokine Storm is proverbial in Medicine, and here I am on my own bed, tap-tap-tapping on my laptop!

So, yes, Spring and Jane: By the time the Storm hits, the patient is probably no longer in position to be playing with elderberry cap decisions at home. It hit me when I'd been ill over a week and in hospital a day or so.

Thank goodness that you are fine and that you got yourself to a hospital. I think you are the one who started a thread about the strange viruses/sicknesses going on since last year.
While I've been quite sick myself with a virus for several months, nothing as serious as your condition. I'm taking this thread very seriously though to be on the lookout as these viruses/bacteria are potent.  

Thank you, everyone, for your kind well-wishes.  
And thank you, C_sharp and ABJoe, for the links!