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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  Why hasn't my gut healed yet?
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Why hasn't my gut healed yet?  This thread currently has 3,034 views. Print Print Thread
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Spring
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe
Thanks!


You are more than welcome!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Possum
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
One thing for sure, you have been a tremendous support to a lot of people on this forum with your active interest in trying to help them. There is a lot to be said for empathetic people, but I think your understanding goes a lot farther than that because of your own situation.  In my book you are a hero!
Well said Spring!! I agree!! Your empathy ABJoe (or anyone's) is sometimes more useful than "getting all the answers"...We all somehow muddle through this together...

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meribelle
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Possum
TJ I feel for you!! Us nonnies do have our multiple issues...


possum, I love your signature...Put down the grains and run away!  that is so true!


Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again.  Blessings, meribelle
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Spring
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
TJ, why not commit to eating completely gluten-free and give that a chance?  You know you're gluten intolerant, but if you continue to eat some wheat and some spelt and keep feeling lousy, you're making yourself anxious and feeling yucky.  


I think it is hard sometimes to realize how important our "guts" are, (for lack of a better word. ) And how easily they are impacted by what we eat. We can get holes in them that are hard to mend, and before they mend they can cause us a world of trouble! If people were as concerned about what they threw into their stomachs (guts) as they are about their hearts giving out, or their lungs, or their brains, or their joints, etc., etc., it would be wonderful!!!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Dianne
TJ - you would have to eat a lot of ghee to get the benefits from it. The butyric acid in the Intrinsia is more potent and concentrated.


When I was suffering agony from inflammation of the esophagus I only had about a teaspoon at a time about three times a day of ghee, and I can't describe the comfort and healing it brought me!! So that amount was pretty powerful for me. Not to say that this amount would be all someone else would need at all, but I just wanted to say that it was extremely beneficial to me! Actually, taking a capsule might not have worked for the esophagus anyway. Reminds me, I need to make some ghee right now!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 12:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
With celiac disease, or gluten allergy, the body exhibits an immune response in the small intestine whenever gluten protein is present. Such a reaction aggravates the intestinal lining and damages the little "hairs" (villi) covering the wall of the digestive tract. In properly functioning organs, these villi will help push food along the intestinal tube while aiding in the absorption of nutrients into the bloodstream. In patients with celiac disease, this absorption process is impeded and can lead to cases of rapid weight loss and eventual malnutrition if left untreated.
You are right, of course.  I just need to accept it.  Gluten is not good for me in any amount, from any source.

Quoted from ABJoe
Lyme spirochetes travel from the site of the bite to anywhere in the body via the skin, lymph system, and blood. They can ultimately cause problems in all body systems.

...Maybe I've been denial...  I have had and continue to have almost all of these symptoms...
Me too, Joe.  I suppose it makes sense that if it can go everywhere else, why not there, too?

Quoted from DoS
TJ is everything well digested that goes through you?
No, not everything, but very little comes out recognizable.

Quoted from DoS
Please try soy lecithin with your fats, just eat a spoonful with fats. Try to get B vitamins in the same meal; but make it breakfast or lunch.

Your diet is not high on choline, essential for liver fat digestion. People usually get it from eggs and soy, which you don't eat.

I understand your frustration. I have come to the conclusion that when no results are being seen there are a couple possibilities, allergies are completely halting function or something isn't being digested. A lot of things are fat soluble, just to say.
This is the best thing to come out of this discussion so far.  Your suggestion about choline was of great value.  I just did some reading about choline on the Linus Pauling Institute website.  There's no way I'm getting enough choline in my diet.

The page on choline mentioned folate as a related nutrient, so I read up on that, too.  My multivitamin contains the recommended 400 mcg, but Lamictal (which I take daily) inhibits folate absorption.  If you're on Lamictal the recommended daily intake of folic acid goes up to 5 mg.  This was news to me.  So, there's also no way I'm getting enough folate, either.  I'm going out to buy these two supplements as soon as I finish posting this reply.

Quoted from Spring
One thing for sure, you have been a tremendous support to a lot of people on this forum with your active interest in trying to help them. There is a lot to be said for empathetic people, but I think your understanding goes a lot farther than that because of your own situation.  In my book you are a hero!
Agreed.  You are a priceless contributor here, Joe.
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ABJoe
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 1:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ,

Do you use any nutritional yeast?  It has both choline and folic acid in it, as well as many other amino acids and minerals...

I recently started taking a small dose and it has stimulated significant detox...  The last week I've felt like my whole sinus area is on fire for about an hour after taking it - but I look at that as a good thing...  Maybe I'll finally burn all of the sinus drug remains (I lived on Sinus Tylenol for 10-15 yrs.) out of there so I can breathe through my nose regularly again...


RH-, ISTJ
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The biggest dose of folic acid I could find was 1 mg.  Starting tomorrow, I will take 2 mg at breakfast and at lunch.  Taking it at night seems like a waste since that's when I take the Lamictal.  I also got some soy lecithin granules.  I used to love the "membrane fluidizer cocktail", but soy lecithin has been a black dot for me in SWAMI so I quit using it.  Since I don't eat eggs, I've got to get my choline from something else.  In my mind, that elevates soy lecithin granules at least up to neutral.

This has prompted me to wonder if there are other basic vitamins and minerals I'm not getting enough of.  Maybe it will be time to lay of the herbs and other non-essentials and focus on getting the basics right and getting what remaining gluten I can out of my diet.  I'm going to do a careful review of the suggestions on the Linus Pauling website to see if I need more of any other vitamins and minerals listed there.
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 2:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Joe, I've never tried nutritional yeast.  I worry about the glutamate in it.
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Spring
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 5:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ, you can take choline in pills. It is usually paired with inositol. I have been making sure I got enough of both for decades. Lecithin is a neutral for me, but I still take a very small amount every day.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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JJR
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 6:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've read this whole thread and this is what I have to throw out there.

#1.  I have read and understand that lymes can mess with your gut.  It creates an environment for biofilms.  It lowers your immunity, thus creating a disturbance in your gut flora.  Or an imbalance.  Therefore yeast can proliferate, among other things I would imagine.  That's how I understand it.

#2.  I had a stint where I was on heart medicine for about a month and a half.  What was that, like 3 years ago.  There was no doubt in my mind it created a less than stellar environment in my gut.  I needed more supps that kill gut bugs.  And my tongue was whiter than other times.  If you take pharma drugs on a regular basis, it will more than likely have a negative affect on your gut.  Starting with your PH.  

#3.  I would suggest a colonoscopy.  They'll tell you if your villi is screwed up.  If it is, than you know wheat or gluten is a problem.  If it's not, it might not be as big a deal as something else.  Having said that, I think there is a lot of information out there saying how wheat grown today is modified, it's not what it used to be, and it is not good for most of us.  Even if we're not sensitive.  Sooner or later it might get any one of us.  In some form or another.  Look how many people are diabetic.  I think it has an impact on that.  That's purely my opinion, but I came by it by reading what some experts had to say.  Whether they are completely right or not, I don't know.  What a colonoscopy wont tell you is really what you're struggle is if it's on microbial level.  They're kind of clueless about all that.  Just a warning if you do get one.

#4.  I don't care who you are, most of us have some kind of trauma, or emotional thing to clean up.  The fact is, most of us grew up in imperfect homes.  Because our parents were imperfect.  I'm not saying they were bad people.  And Lord knows some are better than others.  But regardless of all that, nobody is perfect, and there is nothing wrong with trying to understand how to better your emotional and spiritual state.  Because it WILL affect the physical.  It all goes together.  At least that's how I understand that also.  Furthermore, we carry a genetic code, that can affect us.  Both your parents might be strong as oxes.  Or, you might have some problems that your parents have.  Or, you might have some problems that your granparents had.  On and on and on.  I've been told about MIASMS by more than one practitioner, and I think there's something to that.  Along with just plain ole physical genetics.  We are not the Arian race that Hitler wanted.  The perfect specimen I am for sure not.  Even though I have some German in me.   hehehhehehe

#5.  Worrying about it, fixating about it, and delving into our problems to the degree that we do, doesn't help.  I hate to say it but I'm pretty convinced that sometimes the more I focus on my problems, the worse they are going to be.  And I'm not taking a soap box on this, I'm saying I'm learning that lesson.  I've been shown that yes, my body doesn't work as well as it should at times.  But when I focus on it, even if to trying to find ways to overcome it, sometimes creates a mental state of perpetualness of the physical problems.  And I'm as guilty as anyone at this or more.  So, I'm not preaching, I'm just saying.  But you MAY fit into that category as well.  Maybe not, but I'm just throwing it out there.

But just know, anything I said above is said in a respectful way and you are not alone.  I'm in the trenches with you.  I hit 121 last night praise God.  But believe me, every day is a struggle as to know how to heal.  Just ask Joe, he's heard me whine enough about it.  hehehhe  Right Joe!!  But yeah, it's so great to have friends on here we can talk to.

You'll get better.  You'll get better.  When, who knows, but you will.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 7:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JJR
#3.  I would suggest a colonoscopy.  They'll tell you if your villi is screwed up.  If it is, than you know wheat or gluten is a problem.  If it's not, it might not be as big a deal as something else.  Having said that, I think there is a lot of information out there saying how wheat grown today is modified, it's not what it used to be, and it is not good for most of us.
No insurance, no colonoscopy.  Not now, anyway.  FYI by no means do I intend to start eating wheat again!  The closest I'd dare come is spelt, and it seems that was a bad idea, too.  Like I said, I'll get rid of gluten and traces of wheat where I can.  However, I can't help it if there is some in my medications.  And I'm sure not going to quit eating all the wonderful nuts I can buy at Costco that say "may contain traces of..."  I can't afford to.  If even traces of gluten caused a noticeable reaction, I'd be more concerned and cautious.  You have to pick your battles.

Quoted from JJR
#5.  Worrying about it, fixating about it, and delving into our problems to the degree that we do, doesn't help.  I hate to say it but I'm pretty convinced that sometimes the more I focus on my problems, the worse they are going to be.  And I'm not taking a soap box on this, I'm saying I'm learning that lesson.  I've been shown that yes, my body doesn't work as well as it should at times.  But when I focus on it, even if to trying to find ways to overcome it, sometimes creates a mental state of perpetualness of the physical problems.  And I'm as guilty as anyone at this or more.  So, I'm not preaching, I'm just saying.  But you MAY fit into that category as well.  Maybe not, but I'm just throwing it out there.
I only find myself obsessing about my health when I don't feel healthy.  If anything, I should take more care, instead of going into denial every day that I wake up feeling well rested, energetic, and not in pain.  When I feel sick and I think about it and focus my attention on it, it helps me figure out what to do next.  But pointless worrying will only make thing worse.

Quoted from JJR
But just know, anything I said above is said in a respectful way and you are not alone.  I'm in the trenches with you.  I hit 121 last night praise God.  But believe me, every day is a struggle as to know how to heal.  Just ask Joe, he's heard me whine enough about it.  hehehhe  Right Joe!!  But yeah, it's so great to have friends on here we can talk to.

You'll get better.  You'll get better.  When, who knows, but you will.
"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:" - Job 19:26.

It will all get better eventually.  I hope I get some improvement before then!  It is good to have other people to commiserate with.  Thanks for your thoughts.
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 7:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've already made some progress in my micronutrient studies.  Thus far, I've identified a need for more folic acid, more choline, and less magnesium.  I've been supplementing with 400 mg of magnesium per day.  I think I started in December, up from 200 mg.

Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Supplemental Magnesium

Adults 19 years and older - 350 mg
More to come.
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DoS
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 8:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The Nomad Catalyst has choline in it. You can get it from other sources. I was just thinking it is an emulsifier so it would help you digest the fats in stomach and in liver. At this point I think it is totally worth getting choline by any means.

You must not be making enough stomach acid. HCL is an option. This probably has a lot to do with stress levels (same thing happens to me). When I take enough HCL and eat a bunch of complex carbohydrates I get a little bit of a body high and can sort of make up for all the not-relaxed feeling I have when trying to relax.

Consider a Zinc, calcium, magnesium supplement over just magnesium. They work together, and people with long term infection issues always end up low on zinc. 400mg is a lot of magnesium, too much to take at one given time for almost anyone. The reason is that it makes things move too fast. Having a lesser dose combined with zinc and calcium, a few times day, may serve you much better. (and help keep immunity up) You may find the combination does a lot, where as taking just magnesium does little.

Ideally you would get all that stuff from food, but not if you are not processing fats properly, and especially if you don't have the stomach acid to do it. Then combine it with being short from long term problems that unfortunately nurture back better than just slamming with high doses. Even Dr. D likes to do supplements at the minimum amount for the highest effectiveness.
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C_Sharp
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
but soy lecithin has been a black dot for me in SWAMI


Have you checked since Jan 16th?  The values changed in the SWAMI Genotype edition for some people on that date, I presume they also changed in the SWAMI Xpress edition.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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TJ
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 9:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I haven't had floating poo lately.  Should I still be concerned about fat absorption?  I also supplement with zinc, but I prefer not to use supplemental calcium.  Bs absorb calcium very efficiently, and calcium competes with magnesium which is more challenging for Bs.

Quoted from C_Sharp
Have you checked since Jan 16th?  The values changed in the SWAMI Genotype edition for some people on that date, I presume they also changed in the SWAMI Xpress edition.
I just reran it yesterday.  Still a black dot.
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Christopher1
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 10:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Have you considered heavy metal toxicity?
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ABJoe
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Quoted from TJ
Joe, I've never tried nutritional yeast.  I worry about the glutamate in it.

Where does it rate on your SWAMI?


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DoS
Sunday, January 29, 2012, 10:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
I haven't had floating poo lately.  Should I still be concerned about fat absorption?  I also supplement with zinc, but I prefer not to use supplemental calcium.  Bs absorb calcium very efficiently, and calcium competes with magnesium which is more challenging for Bs.

I just reran it yesterday.  Still a black dot.


Floating poo is not a good indicator of too much for various reasons. One it assumes your poo is large and full of moisture (and very regular), next it has nothing to do with processing fats in the liver. I wouldn't bother with considering it.

I see no reason why not to do separate calcium with zinc and magnesium except some come with HCL combined in the pill for better absorption. Frankly I doubt you have been absorbing calcium too well. I would expect potentially strange results from taking any of them by themselves. Zinc is not fun to have too much of it, and yet not too effective without the counter parts in someone who has been digesting poorly.

Anyway it seems like you have a little bit of direction to try, less worrying, more doing stuff that makes you feel good as your body tries its best.
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akolley
Monday, January 30, 2012, 4:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ
Monday, January 30, 2012, 8:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Christopher1
Have you considered heavy metal toxicity?
Yes.  Doesn't seem likely in my situation.

Quoted from ABJoe
Where does it rate on your SWAMI?
Diamond.  Just like numerous dairy products, onions, and spinach....

Quoted from DoS
I see no reason why not to do separate calcium with zinc and magnesium except some come with HCL combined in the pill for better absorption. Frankly I doubt you have been absorbing calcium too well. I would expect potentially strange results from taking any of them by themselves. Zinc is not fun to have too much of it, and yet not too effective without the counter parts in someone who has been digesting poorly.
I've reconsidered calcium.  This page was an eye-opener!  http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/calcium/  When I tried supplemental calcium before, I was eating lots a dairy.  Now, not so much -- only butter, ghee, and sour cream.  It seems that calcium supplementation will be a good idea after all.

Quoted from DoS
Anyway it seems like you have a little bit of direction to try, less worrying, more doing stuff that makes you feel good as your body tries its best.
Yes, this has been a helpful discussion!
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DoS
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My biceps are nicer after taking choline, by the way. They are more dense (too bad no one will know since I'm fat). If you are exercising it may help a lot for muscle development (seems like a goal of yours?).
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Marc121
Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 4:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
.  My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low.  I'm very thin, have low muscle strength, still struggle with fatigue, nd I still react badly to eggs and dairy proteins; all of which suggests that my gut is still in need of substantial healing.



How will you know how healthy your gut is with this?


What has surprised me? What has touched me? What has inspired me?  
              
We are closer than we think   , keep pushing                                     


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TJ
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Quoted from DoS
My biceps are nicer after taking choline, by the way. They are more dense (too bad no one will know since I'm fat). If you are exercising it may help a lot for muscle development (seems like a goal of yours?).
It is.

Quoted from Marc121
How will you know how healthy your gut is with this?
Good question.  My fingerprints should recover, for one thing.  I expect myself to find eggs and dairy protein tolerance again.  AFAIK, most food sensitivities are because some of the proteins escape through the small intestinal wall into the blood before being completely digested.  Those undigested protein are not supposed to be in circulation and provoke autoimmunity and maybe interfere with aspects of metabolism.
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Marc121
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Quoted from TJ


Good question.  My fingerprints should recover, for one thing.  I expect myself to find eggs and dairy protein tolerance again.  AFAIK, most food sensitivities are because some of the proteins escape through the small intestinal wall into the blood before being completely digested.  Those undigested protein are not supposed to be in circulation and provoke autoimmunity and maybe interfere with aspects of metabolism.


I see. I`m sort of interested in this one.
How will I now mine with fingerprints?


What has surprised me? What has touched me? What has inspired me?  
              
We are closer than we think   , keep pushing                                     

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