When I first read the GTD book in 2008, I recognized the signs of gut damage in myself: the lines in my fingerprints and the food sensitivities.  Since then, I have been on a low- to no-gluten diet with only occasional use of gluten foods, such as experiments with barley (while trying out the Gatherer diet) and spelt, sacrament/communion bread, and traces of gluten that may be found in many foods.  When I bought SWAMI, I checked off the lines in fingerprints so that the diet would always take into account the need to heal my gut.  I no longer eat the sacrament bread.  I go for gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't.

Four years later, I've made no lasting progress.  My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low.  I'm very thin, have low muscle strength, still struggle with fatigue, nd I still react badly to eggs and dairy proteins; all of which suggests that my gut is still in need of substantial healing.

If these dietary changes were going to heal my gut, wouldn't they have done so already?  What else could be preventing my gut from healing?

TJ, do you take anything from the Intestinal Health Protocol?

TJ I feel for you!! Us nonnies do have our multiple issues...I wonder if your problems are from things that aren't covered quite as much even by the "nonnie diet" Perhaps you are more of an Explorer than you think..

As you might recall, I suffer a fair bit from the effects of sulphur/sulphites/phenols etc...Was just getting back into some extensive reading yesterday after reintroducing berries etc into my diet (with really bad effect) & I was amazed (as I was on first discovering this aspect) how much damage things like phenols can do...

You have had a lot of trauma to deal with during those four years, TJ. No question about it. This is what works for me when I have a lot of things going on that are hard to deal with - getting outside and digging in the dirt or some other outside activity. And working at it for hours until I am very tired. Rest never felt so good as it does after I do that. Walking around with my head UP tells me a lot about what is going on inside too. Remember lying on your back in the grass looking UP and watching the clouds go by when you were a kid? Kids haven't been doing that for a long time for nothing. It is too bad that it is becoming almost obsolete! I will have to remember to do that with my grandson when I'm with him again! Sure beats trying to play "tackle" with him! He is so surprised that grandmother can't do that sort of thing anymore! Also, tightening the muscles in the body from your feet to your neck, one area at a time, just before going to sleep at night is very calming and relaxing.

There is no doubt that you are due for a breakthrough. And I truly hope that it comes soon. I've read about one method that is used in one country to calm and relax the stomach and a lot of stock is placed in it. I found that doing that not only helped my stomach but lowered my blood pressure in minutes! I relate the following as an example of how quickly this sort of thing can work - Last night I had a horrible pain in my stomach that came on very suddenly while I was busy with getting ready to have a new floor put in our kitchen today, and I thought surely I was coming down with the virus that is raging in this area. Of course, I started downing ginger and vitamin C among other things, but I needed something for the awful pain in my stomach right away. (This was not normal gas pains by any means!)I was already getting dizzy from whatever was the matter. I have some of that cream from Puritan called The Rub and I lathered it on all over my stomach - twice.  About an hour later I had no pain, slept great and have felt wonderful today! (I did have a container by the bed, though, just in case I got sick during the night!)  I am a great believer in taking external measures to deal with internal problems! Here are some of the ingredients of The Rub:
Arnica Montana 8%
Monk's Hood 1X
Belladonna 1X
Calendula officinalls 1X
Witch Hazel 1X
St. John's Wart 1X
Rue 1X
Comfrey 1X
I think your stomach needs some serious TLC, TJ!

TJ  Have you ever been checked for H Pylori?

Just a thought, TJ --

You describe your diet as:
"only occasional use of gluten foods"
"gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't"

Low gluten is not the same as gluten-free and if a person is truly gluten intolerant, even small amounts of gluten are disastrous to the lining of the gut.

My gut never began truly healing until I completely eliminated all traces of gluten from my diet.  

T J ditto with Victoria no gluten at all also for me is needed, I need months to heal every time some gluten slip in my diet, if its gluten plus dairy OMG a disaster forr nearly a month and slow healing after

intj-issues ... meant here is the psychological thingies, not anything else

Quoted from Spring

I have some of that cream from Puritan called The Rub and I lathered it on all over my stomach - twice.  About an hour later I had no pain, slept great and have felt wonderful today! (I did have a container by the bed, though, just in case I got sick during the night!)  I am a great believer in taking external measures to deal with internal problems!

This sounds great! I see that Vitacost sells it. I have a very young friend who is A-. She often suffers terrible cramps and her medical check ups have ruled out any pathology. I'd like to get some for her - and for myself as well......

Thank you for the good advice!  

aaahhhaaa.. can be replaced with essential oils as well... yaaahhhuuii .... here I might give any advices........

I read somewhere that you can be off of gluten for awhile and then if you happen to ingest some for what ever reason, the damage lasts for six months. So...having a little here or there and sometimes unbeknown to yourself is not a good idea. It's like taking of the scab as things are trying to heal and starting over.

The Intrinsia from Dr. D. and glutamine are excellent, excellent remedies for gut healing.

Nothing like the supplements that Dr. D has to heal the gut.  Have you ever used used Gastro D and intrinsia -- and deflect and live cell?

Quoted from Dianne

I read somewhere that you can be off of gluten for awhile and then if you happen to ingest some for what ever reason, the damage lasts for six months. So...having a little here or there and sometimes unbeknown to yourself is not a good idea. It's like taking of the scab as things are trying to heal and starting over.

Dianne I have heard that too...re even a little bit of gluten being such a problem Take care TJ...

Quoted from Maria Giovanna

T J ditto with Victoria no gluten at all also for me is needed, I need months to heal every time some gluten slip in my diet, if its gluten plus dairy OMG a disaster forr nearly a month and slow healing after

Me too....gluten is lethal to my gut....I'm so careful but even a little gluten eaten by mistake can set me back and inflame my gut something awful.  Dairy isn't as obvious to my gut as gluten is, but can trigger an inflammatory reaction in my entire body within a day or two. I had full blown celiac...
some people are just sensitive to it.

You can stay off gluten but you will not heal the gut by doing so--- it is always about what you do eat/do then what you don't.

The supplements are necessary.  

Quoted from TJ

When I first read the GTD book in 2008, I recognized the signs of gut damage in myself: the lines in my fingerprints and the food sensitivities.  Since then, I have been on a low- to no-gluten diet with only occasional use of gluten foods, such as experiments with barley (while trying out the Gatherer diet) and spelt, sacrament/communion bread, and traces of gluten that may be found in many foods.  When I bought SWAMI, I checked off the lines in fingerprints so that the diet would always take into account the need to heal my gut.  I no longer eat the sacrament bread.  I go for gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't.

Four years later, I've made no lasting progress.  My fingerprints (heck, the whole palm side of my fingers) are still shot through with lines and the ridges are low.  I'm very thin, have low muscle strength, still struggle with fatigue, nd I still react badly to eggs and dairy proteins; all of which suggests that my gut is still in need of substantial healing.

If these dietary changes were going to heal my gut, wouldn't they have done so already?  What else could be preventing my gut from healing?

I got rid of all gluten, but only got better when I eliminated all mycotoxins in my diet.

Quoted from yaeli

TJ, do you take anything from the Intestinal Health Protocol?

Yes, I've used Deflect, Polyflora, magnesium, ghee, and ARA Plus.

Quoted from Possum

TJ I feel for you!! Us nonnies do have our multiple issues...I wonder if your problems are from things that aren't covered quite as much even by the "nonnie diet" Perhaps you are more of an Explorer than you think..

As you might recall, I suffer a fair bit from the effects of sulphur/sulphites/phenols etc...Was just getting back into some extensive reading yesterday after reintroducing berries etc into my diet (with really bad effect) & I was amazed (as I was on first discovering this aspect) how much damage things like phenols can do...

Explorer is my #2.  Probably around 40% if I could look at that on SWAMI.  I have trouble with sulfites, too, and I stay away from them.

Quoted from Spring

You have had a lot of trauma to deal with during those four years, TJ. No question about it.

...There is no doubt that you are due for a breakthrough. And I truly hope that it comes soon. I've read about one method that is used in one country to calm and relax the stomach and a lot of stock is placed in it. I found that doing that not only helped my stomach but lowered my blood pressure in minutes! I relate the following as an example of how quickly this sort of thing can work - Last night I had a horrible pain in my stomach that came on very suddenly while I was busy with getting ready to have a new floor put in our kitchen today, and I thought surely I was coming down with the virus that is raging in this area.... I think your stomach needs some serious TLC, TJ!

Quoted from Chloe

TJ  Have you ever been checked for H Pylori?

There certainly have been bouts of severe stress over this time.  Even so, four years?  I've never had reason to believe I have ulcers or H. pylori.  It's extremely rare for me to have nausea/upset stomach.  I think my stomach is fine, with the problems being mostly in my small intestine.

Quoted from Victoria

Just a thought, TJ --

You describe your diet as:
"only occasional use of gluten foods"
"gluten-free products when it's reasonable to do so, and try to minimize gluten when it isn't"

Low gluten is not the same as gluten-free and if a person is truly gluten intolerant, even small amounts of gluten are disastrous to the lining of the gut.

My gut never began truly healing until I completely eliminated all traces of gluten from my diet.

Yes, I have considered that.  I went several months in 2010 as gluten-free as I could get, including supplements and medications.   I noted some small improvements right off the bat, but nothing substantial ever came of it.  I could be wrong.  SWAMI gives me spelt (a gluten grain) as a neutral.  Of course SWAMI doesn't know everything.

Quoted from Dianne

The Intrinsia from Dr. D. and glutamine are excellent, excellent remedies for gut healing.

Quoted from Andrea AWsec

Nothing like the supplements that Dr. D has to heal the gut.  Have you ever used used Gastro D and intrinsia -- and deflect and live cell?

I haven't tried Intrinsia, Gastro-D, Live Cell, or glutamine.  I'm taking gobs of supplements already, and if I can ever get together to means to purchase the herbs for the Buhner Lyme protocol, I'll then be taking more than twice what I'm taking now.  How many different supplements can you take and still get benefit from all of them?  I'm once again on a very tight budget, too.  Having used Dr. D's supps, I'm a believer in them, but they are still costly.

Quoted from Andrea AWsec

You can stay off gluten but you will not heal the gut by doing so--- it is always about what you do eat/do then what you don't.

The supplements are necessary.  

This I understand.  Take away the stuff that's making you sick, and add stuff to make you heal.

--------

Thank you all for your input.  What I'm really wondering is if there is some other sort of underlying condition that's contributing.  Is there something else I don't know about?  Do you have any ideas about other possible causes?

Maybe it is time for a phone consult with Dr. Nash probably cost you less in the long run.

If you do decide to drop all gluten and want to try one Dr. D supplement, consider the Intrinsia.  It's unique and powerful.

I think gluten is your enemy.  

Quoted from Chloe

Me too....gluten is lethal to my gut....I'm so careful but even a little gluten eaten by mistake can set me back and inflame my gut something awful.  Dairy isn't as obvious to my gut as gluten is, but can trigger an inflammatory reaction in my entire body within a day or two. I had full blown celiac...
some people are just sensitive to it.

Quoted from Maria Giovanna

T J ditto with Victoria no gluten at all also for me is needed, I need months to heal every time some gluten slip in my diet, if its gluten plus dairy OMG a disaster forr nearly a month and slow healing after

Quoted from Victoria

My gut never began truly healing until I completely eliminated all traces of gluten from my diet.  

I have a question for y'all: how can you tell?  I'm not questioning if gluten is really a problem for you.  I just want to know what tips you off that you've accidentally ingested gluten, and how you know when you've recovered from the damage.  I need to know what to look for!

Quoted from yaeli

This sounds great! I see that Vitacost sells it. I have a very young friend who is A-. She often suffers terrible cramps and her medical check ups have ruled out any pathology. I'd like to get some for her - and for myself as well......

Thank you for the good advice!  

I have been using it for decades and don't want to ever be without it!

Quoted from TJ

Thank you all for your input.  What I'm really wondering is if there is some other sort of underlying condition that's contributing.  Is there something else I don't know about?  Do you have any ideas about other possible causes?

There may be, TJ, but don't underestimate the damage stress can do to you. I know very well myself that it can kill you!! It can undo everything under the sun that we try to do to maintain our health! Be your body's best friend - with all its strengths and weaknesses!! A few light bulbs may go off among the lot of us, you included, that will shed more light as we think more about all this. And be aware that we all care about you and are hoping for a very good outcome!