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Lowering Cholesterol with Compliant Grains  This thread currently has 3,379 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 4:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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I really need to lower my cholesterol.  Since being on the diet, my cholesterol has gone up instead of down.  I posted a thread yesterday, This diet does not seem to be working for me, and got a lot of really great responses.  Thank you very much!

A couple of the responses got me thinking.  My husband, who is an O+ secretor, loosely follows the diet.  He eats what I eat for dinner when we are home, has a fairly compliant lunch at home, but eats a large bowl of oatmeal with cinammon, a banana and antoher fruit every morning for breakfast.  When we go out or if he has a business lunch or dinner, he will cheat with wheat, sugar, corn, dairy, alcohol, you name it.

I, on the other hand, hardly ever cheat.  If I do, I still try to make sure it is not too terrible and it is usually because I am at someone's house and do not want to be rude.  I eat very few store bought prepared foods and cook from scratch.

Here is the kicker - his cholesterol went down 57 points and mine went down 4.  The main difference in our diet is his large bowl of oatmeal every morning.  When I posted on the other thread about eating oatmeal, both Lola and Henriette BSec posted responses that got me thinking.  Lola recommended using compliant grains and Henriette BSec response regarding oatmeal lowering cholesterol was:
Quoted Text
That is a one size fit approach imo
  Both had great points.

I did a little research on why oatmeal is used to lower cholesterol and it is the soluable fiber in the oatmeal that they believe helps lower cholesterol and blood pressure.  I really have to work on both of these and was wondering what compliant soluable fiber I could ingest that might help lower my cholesterol.  My cardiologist is pushing me to take a statin because of my family premature heart disease, so this is important to me.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Please post recipes as well.  Lola, you talked about sprouting compliant grains and making your own bread.  I have never done either of those things, so any additional help on those types of things would be welcome as well!

Thank you again for your caring and support.  This forum is great and I appreciate the support you have all given me  


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O in Virginia
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 4:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami
Kyosha Nim
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Patty, I'm surprised that your cholesterol went up (I assume you mean total cholesterol, but what about the LDL and HDL numbers?).  I had my annual checkup last month, and my cholesterol numbers have improved on BTD/swami - after almost a year's worth of substantial reduction in grains (I do eat rice).  Do you eat veggies at every meal, and fresh fruit at some point during the day?  Do you watch your fats portions?  I don't have any brilliant ideas or recipes to offer at the moment, but I will be thinking about this.  I'll post again if I come up with any ideas for you.  Wishing you the best.
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Patty H
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 5:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from O in Virginia
Patty, I'm surprised that your cholesterol went up (I assume you mean total cholesterol, but what about the LDL and HDL numbers?).  I had my annual checkup last month, and my cholesterol numbers have improved on BTD/swami - after almost a year's worth of substantial reduction in grains (I do eat rice).  Do you eat veggies at every meal, and fresh fruit at some point during the day?  Do you watch your fats portions?  I don't have any brilliant ideas or recipes to offer at the moment, but I will be thinking about this.  I'll post again if I come up with any ideas for you.  Wishing you the best.


OinV, my total went down only 4 points since March, but both are still above my pre-BTD/GTD totals.

My HDL, triglycerides and ratio is good, but my LDL is 168, only down 6 points since March, but up 25 points since pre-BTD/GTD.

I do eat veggies at every meal.  I don't eat fruit every day, probably 3-4 times a week.  Maybe I need to start doing that?  The problem is, there is so much food on my SWAMI, I couldn't possibly eat it all.  I only eat rice or rice cakes about 2-3 times a week.  I'm also eating ghee and wondering if I need to cut that out and also not eat any fat on red meat.  

With all the fist I eat and all the exercise, I really thought my numbers would be down since my last tests in March.  Could be hormones, too.  A couple of people have suggested that and it makes sense.


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C_Sharp
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 5:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My girl friend is an O and she does Quinoa for breakfast. She generally use the whole grain, but it is available in a flake form that cooks up like oatmeal.

I would think fiber is what would be most effective. And Quinoa is not particularly high in fiber.

Flaxseed is quite high in fiber, so you may want to look at ways to include flaxseed meal in your diet (cereal, bread, ...).

Buckwheat is high fiber and can be cooked for a cereal.

Rice bran and Teff could also be used to up fiber levels.

Wild rice is another option.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Patty H
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 5:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp
My girl friend is an O and she does Quinoa for breakfast. She generally use the whole grain, but it is available in a flake form that cooks up like oatmeal.

I would think fiber is what would be most effective. And Quinoa is not particularly high in fiber.

Flaxseed is quite high in fiber, so you may want to look at ways to include flaxseed meal in your diet (cereal, bread, ...).

Buckwheat is high fiber and can be cooked for a cereal.

Rice bran and Teff could also be used to up fiber levels.

Wild rice is another option.


Great suggestions, C Sharp!  Flaxseed bread, Artichoke flour pasta (which I have never been able to find) and teff are all diamond SF's for me.

Quinoa, Millet, rice brand, rice flour, basmati, brown and wild rice are all SF's

Buckwheat is a black dot.

I have never made bread before.  Maybe it is time to start?  I have some ground flax seed.  I will begin looking at ways I can incorporate that into my diet.



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Andrea AWsec
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 12:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty what are your triglycerides?


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Mark
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 1:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would second flax.

Guggul gum will have a positive effect as well; it has a lot of studies behind it.
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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I love oatmeal but it is such a fattening food like all grains.  A comfort food for sure.  
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Drea
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have some experience sprouting grains, that's what I did last winter when I was avoiding flour products. I didn't make them into anything; just ate them "as is", on salads or in soups/stirfrys.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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C_Sharp
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Flaxseed bread recipe

(I do not find it necessary to use as much oil as this recipe calls for)

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?1215


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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balletomane
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 11:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty,
Introducing flaxseed to your diet might be a good idea. However, it doesn't necessary have to be in the form of bread. What I do is to pour in a tablespoon or two every morning to my protein shake. I usually use my alloted portion of fruits, plus a scoop of Dr D's Protein Powder for "O", then add some hemp seeds as well. The fruits and flaxseed make me very regular and by eating the fruits in the morning I don't have to worry about them fermenting with my other meals during the rest of the day (which used to be an issue for me). You said that you're not eating fruits every day. But if your plan allows, the diamond and beneficial fruits really do wonders. Perhaps you can try this trick with the morning shake to see if your body feels fine with it




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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 11:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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some of you, the O's do have higher cholesterol/triglyzeride of hereditary origins, so far... ... but instead of the idea to reach you aim with grains at that important  issue... would rather change your mind and go for aminoacids  likewise dlpa for example and some other goodies (B3 as niacin for example
and I recognize you as a hunter but O nonnie... nearly no chance for the grains   


MIfHI K-174
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Patty what are your triglycerides?


Total Cholesterol = 254
HDL = 70
LDL = 168
Triglycerides = 78
Chol/HDL Ration = 3.63

It is the total and the LDL my cardiologist does not like.  I had hoped all the exercise I am doing would bring it down, but it only came down 6 points since it was tested in March 2011.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark
I would second flax.

Guggul gum will have a positive effect as well; it has a lot of studies behind it.


Thanks, Mark.  I do have some ground flax and will start using it daily.  I will look into the guggul gum for sure.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Drea
I have some experience sprouting grains, that's what I did last winter when I was avoiding flour products. I didn't make them into anything; just ate them "as is", on salads or in soups/stirfrys.


Do you think that would help?  It seems to be the soluble fiber that researchers say lower the cholesterol.  Oatmeal is the highest but I know flax is on the list as well.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp
Flaxseed bread recipe

(I do not find it necessary to use as much oil as this recipe calls for)

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?1215


Thanks, C Sharp.  I will try it next week.  It looks really easy  


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from balletomane
Patty,
Introducing flaxseed to your diet might be a good idea. However, it doesn't necessary have to be in the form of bread. What I do is to pour in a tablespoon or two every morning to my protein shake. I usually use my alloted portion of fruits, plus a scoop of Dr D's Protein Powder for "O", then add some hemp seeds as well. The fruits and flaxseed make me very regular and by eating the fruits in the morning I don't have to worry about them fermenting with my other meals during the rest of the day (which used to be an issue for me). You said that you're not eating fruits every day. But if your plan allows, the diamond and beneficial fruits really do wonders. Perhaps you can try this trick with the morning shake to see if your body feels fine with it


I am not much one for eating in the morning and I am also not much one for shakes but maybe I need to rethink that.  My husband and I don't care for the protein powder Dr. D sells.  Do you use something different?


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
some of you, the O's do have higher cholesterol/triglyzeride of hereditary origins, so far... ... but instead of the idea to reach you aim with grains at that important  issue... would rather change your mind and go for aminoacids  likewise dlpa for example and some other goodies (B3 as niacin for example
and I recognize you as a hunter but O nonnie... nearly no chance for the grains   


Amazone, I did look into niacin at one point, but as I understand it, one needs to take it for the rest of their life?  Would it be possible for you to share more information regarding aminoacids, etc?


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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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if you go and google : *aminoacids lowering  cholesterol* you will have a lot of time to research all about soy or fish or other aminoacids who're working
co-factors.....
dlpa is one of the quickest but here take care not being one of those who are victims of phenylalanin-ketonury....


MIfHI K-174
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Drea
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H


Do you think that would help?  It seems to be the soluble fiber that researchers say lower the cholesterol.  Oatmeal is the highest but I know flax is on the list as well.


I do not know if eating sprouted grains will help, sorry. I just wanted you to know that I could offer support for sprouting, if you choose to go that route.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
if you go and google : *aminoacids lowering  cholesterol* you will have a lot of time to research all about soy or fish or other aminoacids who're working
co-factors.....
dlpa is one of the quickest but here take care not being one of those who are victims of phenylalanin-ketonury....


Soy is an avoid for me and I eat fish all the time.  I eat fish generally at least once a day, sometimes twice a day.  I will reseach the amino acids.  Thanks!


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jayneeo
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I second brown rice bran, which is sold in a box at health food stores. And I have used and loved Simply Whites eggwhite protein powder.
I'm also gonna try the flaxbread recipe.
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 4:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo
I second brown rice bran, which is sold in a box at health food stores. And I have used and loved Simply Whites eggwhite protein powder.
I'm also gonna try the flaxbread recipe.


Are you trying to lower your cholesterol, too?


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ilmuller
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Patty,

My Cholesterol dropped from 297 to 215 (I am in Germany/ Russia) after I started with the O type diet (I was told I had Epstein Virus). I cut down on grains, milk, nightshadow veggies, sugar and eat with every meal a protein (chicken, beef, salmon or eggs). With every 100g beef/chicken or fish, I get at least 300g veggies. I am using now only Olive oil... and I do not heat it - only cold. I use ghee or butter for cooking. The veggies i normaly cooked in the microwave (even though many say it is not healthy). I dropped quite a lot of kg (pounds) and I feel very very well. Oh... and when I eat some ice cream I get the whole ice cream (at leat here in Russia- unfortunately there is sugar in it.... but eating ice cream is not a routine - so it is quite OK
Oh..after hearing to much that "we need grains" and that my body needs some vitamin that come only with grains- I decided to have once a week some rice and last week I sprouted some 30g. That was OK. In the morning when I miss my "bread" I prepare the magic bread with flax seed (flax seed meal and egg).
Oh... I drink a lot of herbs tee and water. Coffee ist out  
Regards
Ingrid
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Mark
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would think that exercise would normalize your lipid panel as well. I tried oatmeal (soaked) a while ago.

These were my results:

LDL: 89 --> 106
Triglycerides: 21 --> 39
Cholesterol: 156 --> 175
Very LDL: 3 --> 9

Needless to say, I was not eager to continue my daily oats. I think that if I did not exercise during that second period my lipid panel would have been worse.
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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 6:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I observed this can be relevant for secretors but not for nonnies.... nearly all my clients which are nonnies didn't reacted well onto the intake of any grains....


MIfHI K-174
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark
I would think that exercise would normalize your lipid panel as well. I tried oatmeal (soaked) a while ago.

These were my results:

LDL: 89 --> 106
Triglycerides: 21 --> 39
Cholesterol: 156 --> 175
Very LDL: 3 --> 9

Needless to say, I was not eager to continue my daily oats. I think that if I did not exercise during that second period my lipid panel would have been worse.


Hi Mark, I am exercising - I am running three miles, 3-4 days a week and then doing abs, light weights, leg lifts, supermans, etc., 2 days a week.  I just started the exercise routine after my last cholesterol check in March and my trip to Dr. Nash in mid-April.  I really thought the exercise would lower my LDL.  I started the BTD in mid-October, 2010.

Here are my numbers pre-BTD/GTD, then in March, then last week:

9/22/10
Total Cholesterol = 225
HLD = 62
LDL = 143
Triglygerides = 102

3/31/11
Total Cholesterol = 258
HLD = 68
LDL = 174
Triglygerides = 82

8/25/11
Total Cholesterol = 254
HLD = 70
LDL = 168
Triglygerides = 78

The second set of tests was before I started exercising regularly, although I had begun to do vigorous walking.  My run is through very hilly woods, so the trail is challenging.  I live on the highest hill in my town and the surrounding woods are filled with elevation changes.

Maybe you can understand my frustration with totally changing my diet, developing and maintaining an exercise routine, only to see my cholesterol go up.  I am specifically on this diet to try and beat the premature heart disease in my family, so cholesterol is something I need to take seriously.  That is the only reason I decided to go on the diet.  I had no chronic illness or digestive issues whatsoever.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Quoted from ilmuller
Hi Patty,

My Cholesterol dropped from 297 to 215 (I am in Germany/ Russia) after I started with the O type diet (I was told I had Epstein Virus). I cut down on grains, milk, nightshadow veggies, sugar and eat with every meal a protein (chicken, beef, salmon or eggs). With every 100g beef/chicken or fish, I get at least 300g veggies. I am using now only Olive oil... and I do not heat it - only cold. I use ghee or butter for cooking. The veggies i normaly cooked in the microwave (even though many say it is not healthy). I dropped quite a lot of kg (pounds) and I feel very very well. Oh... and when I eat some ice cream I get the whole ice cream (at leat here in Russia- unfortunately there is sugar in it.... but eating ice cream is not a routine - so it is quite OK
Oh..after hearing to much that "we need grains" and that my body needs some vitamin that come only with grains- I decided to have once a week some rice and last week I sprouted some 30g. That was OK. In the morning when I miss my "bread" I prepare the magic bread with flax seed (flax seed meal and egg).
Oh... I drink a lot of herbs tee and water. Coffee ist out  
Regards
Ingrid


It sounds like things are working well for you, Ingrid.  Unfortunately, that is not the case with me.  My cholesterol has gone up, not down since I have been on the BTD/GTD.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Amazone I.
I observed this can be relevant for secretors but not for nonnies.... nearly all my clients which are nonnies didn't reacted well onto the intake of any grains....


Well that is good to know.  I think I need to set up a conference call with Dr. Nash.  I will wait until I get the rest of my blood tests back so we can look at the whole picture.

I did read some info on amino acids.  I will talk to Dr. Nash about this as well.  Thanks for the info!


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'm not going to start eating oats again just to lower my cholesterol; I would have to think long and hard about that.  Isn't the real problem Metabolic Syndrome X; ie, higher cholesterol and lipid levels due to higher insulin, ie, insulin resistance?  

http://metabolic-syndrome.insulitelabs.com/Metabolic-Syndrome-High-Cholesterol.php

I would take krill or fish oil before I would eat oatmeal and I LOVE oatmeal.

I'm wondering Patty H if you know what your body fat % is.  It can't be that high if you run all the time but seems like that would be an important number to take in to account.  

Other people on here I've read are following Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains IF approach.  His system is an 8 hour feeding window between noon and 8, similar to what Patty says she already does.
http://www.leangains.com/
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
I'm not going to start eating oats again just to lower my cholesterol; I would have to think long and hard about that.  Isn't the real problem Metabolic Syndrome X; ie, higher cholesterol and lipid levels due to higher insulin, ie, insulin resistance?  

http://metabolic-syndrome.insulitelabs.com/Metabolic-Syndrome-High-Cholesterol.php

I would take krill or fish oil before I would eat oatmeal and I LOVE oatmeal.

I'm wondering Patty H if you know what your body fat % is.  It can't be that high if you run all the time but seems like that would be an important number to take in to account.  

Other people on here I've read are following Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains IF approach.  His system is an 8 hour feeding window between noon and 8, similar to what Patty says she already does.
http://www.leangains.com/


Sahara, I don't have metabolic syndrome X.  I am thin and do not have diabetes.  My triglycerides and HDL are fine.  I eat fish all the time - at least 7 times a week or more.  I suppose I could try fish oil.  I have some.  My body fat is around 22%.  I also have pretty large breasts for a small hunter, so I would imagine that adds to my body fat  


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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 8:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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good idea to contact Dr. Nash PH   please give her my best regards  


MIfHI K-174
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
good idea to contact Dr. Nash PH   please give her my best regards  


I want to wait to get the rest of my blood test results and then I will definitely contact her and send her your best regards  


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C_Sharp
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Definitely take Dr. Nash advice over mine.

I wondered if you had looked at the Cardiovascular book, and whether there were things in it that are different than what you are currently doing.

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED065S


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp
Definitely take Dr. Nash advice over mine.

I wondered if you had looked at the Cardiovascular book, and whether there were things in it that are different than what you are currently doing.

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED065S


Hi C Sharp, I have the book and have actually read it several times.  I'll look at it again.  Maybe I missed something  

Personally, I think I might need to cut back on saturated fat and eat more fruit and compliant grains.


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I don't want to argue but from what all I've been reading this year, cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks. Elevated insulin is a much more important factor.  Something called the Framingham Study has debunked Ancel Keyes Lipid Hypothesis:

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

Again, the Framingham Study which followed 15,000 participants over three generations:

There is a direct association between falling cholesterol levels over the first 14 years and mortality over the following 18 years.”

In other words, as cholesterol fell death rates went up.

The Honolulu Heart Program study, with 8,000 participants, published in 2001:

“Long-term persistence of low cholesterol concentration actually increases the risk of death. Thus, the earlier the patients start to have lower cholesterol concentrations, the greater the risk of death.”

And finally, the huge Japanese Lipid Intervention Trial with over 47,000 participants:

“The highest death rate observed was among those with lowest cholesterol (under 160mg/dl); lowest death rate observed was with those whose cholesterol was between 200-259mg/dl”

In other words, those with the lowest cholesterol had the highest death rate, and those with cholesterol levels that would today be called “dangerous” had the lowest death rate.

As you can see, not only does high cholesterol not cause heart disease, low cholesterol can actually be dangerous to your health.
So toss out your vegetable oil and start eating butter and eggs again! But more on that next week…


Dr. Michael Eades further explains the Framingham Study in this blog post:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/

The study conclusions:

    With one exception there was no discernible association between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol level in the Framingham Diet Study Group. The one exception was a weak negative association between caloric intake and serum cholesterol level in men. [As to] coronary heart disease–was it related prospectively to diet. No relationship was found.

So, I would say that the results of this study were pretty clear. These guys tried as hard as they could to show a correlation between diet and serum cholesterol and between diet and the incidence of coronary heart disease, but failed. The data conclusively demonstrated no such correlations.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered the yellowed news clipping shown below taped into the back of my $80 booklet. This clipping, from the Framingham newspaper dated October 30, 1970, is worth the $80 all by itself. Apparently, despite all the supporting evidence, Dr. Kannel, the director of the study and the guy listed as lead author, wasn’t buying into all this nonsense about there being no correlation. He felt the need to ‘clarify’ the already crystal clear findings.

The clipping begins:

    Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet Study group, “it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol,” Dr. William B. Kannel, director of the Framingham Heart Study has stated.

Clarification, indeed.

Hmmm, I guess Dr. Kannel didn’t enjoy the surprise ending of that movie, so decided to change it on the fly. I think the rest of this remarkable clipping is legible, so read it and laugh. It’s a grand example of what I’ve written about before: scientists who present their conclusions one way in a scientific paper that other scientists will look at and call them on if they are incorrect and a totally different way to the press that reports to the population at large.

Further reading/study is probably the best bet.  I would read Eat Fat Lose Fat by Mary Enig and Shwarzbein Principle for sure.  

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14442  -  Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:10pm
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Drea
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Patty, you've been swami-d by Dr. Nash, so what are your suggested portion sizes/frequencies for grains? And do you adhere to them, for the most part?

After reading this thread, I realized that I stopped eating oat bran a couple months ago, and wondered if that's why my own LDL went up. But I'm an A, and am allowed 3 servings per day of grains (oat bran being a diamond). I rarely eat that much grain, though...


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Joy
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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PattyH,

I didn't read every post here but scanned them.  I'm sure you'll try several of the suggestions.

As I read what your husband eats for breakfast oatmeal with cinnamon (cinnamon spice stood out like a beacon to me)

I got some from my favorate spice website http://www.MySpiceSage.com only because I like spices from other countries.  

Everyday cinnamon that you get in the grocery store seems to be vastly underrated.
Just do a search about cinnamon benefits.  One of them is "lowers the bad cholestrol".

I'm not saying that its a panacea for you in particular but sometimes certain food changes will effect a change for the better.

Hope its true for you.

Joy
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Drea
Patty, you've been swami-d by Dr. Nash, so what are your suggested portion sizes/frequencies for grains? And do you adhere to them, for the most part?

After reading this thread, I realized that I stopped eating oat bran a couple months ago, and wondered if that's why my own LDL went up. But I'm an A, and am allowed 3 servings per day of grains (oat bran being a diamond). I rarely eat that much grain, though...


No Drea, I am not adhering to them which is why I think I might need to adhere.  It is what Lola recommends as well.  I get one serving of carbs a day and 3 servings of fruit a day.

If you can have oat bran, I would eat it.  You must have read in all my chatter that my husband's cholesterol dropped 57 points since I have been on the diet.  He is an O secretor so can have oatmeal and eats it every morning.  Clearly, my diet is benefiting him!!!  


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
I don't want to argue but from what all I've been reading this year, cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks. Elevated insulin is a much more important factor.  Something called the Framingham Study has debunked Ancel Keyes Lipid Hypothesis:

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

Again, the Framingham Study which followed 15,000 participants over three generations:

There is a direct association between falling cholesterol levels over the first 14 years and mortality over the following 18 years.”

In other words, as cholesterol fell death rates went up.

The Honolulu Heart Program study, with 8,000 participants, published in 2001:

“Long-term persistence of low cholesterol concentration actually increases the risk of death. Thus, the earlier the patients start to have lower cholesterol concentrations, the greater the risk of death.”

And finally, the huge Japanese Lipid Intervention Trial with over 47,000 participants:

“The highest death rate observed was among those with lowest cholesterol (under 160mg/dl); lowest death rate observed was with those whose cholesterol was between 200-259mg/dl”

In other words, those with the lowest cholesterol had the highest death rate, and those with cholesterol levels that would today be called “dangerous” had the lowest death rate.

As you can see, not only does high cholesterol not cause heart disease, low cholesterol can actually be dangerous to your health.
So toss out your vegetable oil and start eating butter and eggs again! But more on that next week…


Dr. Michael Eades further explains the Framingham Study in this blog post:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/

The study conclusions:

    With one exception there was no discernible association between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol level in the Framingham Diet Study Group. The one exception was a weak negative association between caloric intake and serum cholesterol level in men. [As to] coronary heart disease–was it related prospectively to diet. No relationship was found.

So, I would say that the results of this study were pretty clear. These guys tried as hard as they could to show a correlation between diet and serum cholesterol and between diet and the incidence of coronary heart disease, but failed. The data conclusively demonstrated no such correlations.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered the yellowed news clipping shown below taped into the back of my $80 booklet. This clipping, from the Framingham newspaper dated October 30, 1970, is worth the $80 all by itself. Apparently, despite all the supporting evidence, Dr. Kannel, the director of the study and the guy listed as lead author, wasn’t buying into all this nonsense about there being no correlation. He felt the need to ‘clarify’ the already crystal clear findings.

The clipping begins:

    Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet Study group, “it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol,” Dr. William B. Kannel, director of the Framingham Heart Study has stated.

Clarification, indeed.

Hmmm, I guess Dr. Kannel didn’t enjoy the surprise ending of that movie, so decided to change it on the fly. I think the rest of this remarkable clipping is legible, so read it and laugh. It’s a grand example of what I’ve written about before: scientists who present their conclusions one way in a scientific paper that other scientists will look at and call them on if they are incorrect and a totally different way to the press that reports to the population at large.

Further reading/study is probably the best bet.  I would read Eat Fat Lose Fat by Mary Enig and Shwarzbein Principle for sure.  


Yes, but what about a severe family history of premature heart disease?  We have both in our family.  People with elevated cholesterol who have had heart attacks and people with extremely low cholesterol (my sister and brother) who have had heart attacks.

My family history makes things bit more complicated.


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I personally am not going to let family genetics run my life.  I prefer to use common sense personally.  My mother's side of the family doesn't eat right, doesn't exercise, and has heart disease.  I focus on what I can control & frankly, I've never felt as good mentally as I have since I started eating butter daily.  
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Sahara
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Gosh, just found this information from a cardiologist named Dr. Davis.  He is against not just wheat but all grains & has a new book called Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/user/wheatbelly#p/a/u/1/C7xTIZ5Wwog

He is even against oatmeal!  

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/03/oatmeal-good-or-bad.html
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Drea
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
Gosh, just found this information from a cardiologist named Dr. Davis.  He is against not just wheat but all grains & has a new book called Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/user/wheatbelly#p/a/u/1/C7xTIZ5Wwog

He is even against oatmeal!  

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/03/oatmeal-good-or-bad.html


Another one-size-fits-all approach.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Sahara
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Grains in general are bad news for Os.     I have a blood type A friend who has yet to lose his belly on a bowl of oatmeal a day.
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Drea
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
Grains in general are bad news for Os.     I have a blood type A friend who has yet to lose his belly on a bowl of oatmeal a day.


I agree with the first statement.

I do fine on 1 serving of grains per day, though I'm allowed 3 servings per day on my swami. I've done a lot of testing on myself to know that going grain-free does me no good (I gain, rather than lose weight), but I also don't do well eating all three servings per day.





It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Patty H
Friday, September 16, 2011, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
I personally am not going to let family genetics run my life.  I prefer to use common sense personally.  My mother's side of the family doesn't eat right, doesn't exercise, and has heart disease.  I focus on what I can control & frankly, I've never felt as good mentally as I have since I started eating butter daily.  


I don't disagree Sahara, but well all three of your siblings have had bypass surgery between the age of 54 - 59 (two had heart attacks and went into cardia arrest) and all your male cousins have heart disease and one female cousin (all on the paternal side), it becomes a bit more difficult to ignore.  I was pretty much ignoring it until my sister had a heart attack in December.  Up until then, we all thought it was the men in the family.  None of them have a terrible diet, either.  It is certainly not as good as mine, but it is better than the average American diet, I would think.  
Sometimes genetics are a factor that one cannot ignore.

It sounds more like the heart disease on your mother's side is more from poor choices rather than genetics, but who knows.  The best we can do is take care of ourselves the best we can!

Also, Dr. D does recommend one serving of compliant grains a day.  Someone posted a quote from him on one of the threads.  He said we need compliant grains to help with colon health, which is a weakness for O's. But to each his own!  


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Sahara
Monday, September 19, 2011, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I was thinking about alpha lipoic acid over the weekend and how it helps improve insulin response so googled to see if it is correlated with cholesterol control and found this:

http://www.stopagingnow.com/liveinthenow/article/zap-high-cholesterol-with-alpha-lipoic-acid

http://www.livestrong.com/article/432934-alpha-lipoic-acid-cholesterol/

A study in the January 2008 issue of the journal "Circulation" found that alpha lipoic acid prevents atherosclerosis in laboratory animals. Diets consisting of 15 percent fat and 4 percent fat supplemented with 0.2 percent alpha lipoic acid reduced atherosclerotic plaque formation in both diets. Alpha lipoic acid supplementation resulted in 40 percent less weight gain, lower levels of very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, VLDL, and triglycerides. Additionally, scientists observed lower levels of inflammation in the aorta -- the main blood vessel that supplies the body. Researchers concluded that alpha lipoic acid inhibited atherosclerosis by preventing weight gain, lowering triglycerides and reducing inflammation in this preliminary animal study.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/432934-alpha-lipoic-acid-cholesterol/#ixzz1YQ9bavyw
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Sahara
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 8:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Barry Sears, author of The Zone says the best way to lower LDL is to reduce blood sugar:

http://www.zonediet.com/blog/2011/06/another-new-wrinkle-in-the-cholesterol-story/
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Susana
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 9:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I am not a Dr. (I would bet on Dr. Nash's recommendations) but from what I understand from all the cholesterol "lectures" I've run into, your numbers are improving.

Your HDL has increased which supposedly is the best safeguard towards heart ailments.

Your LDL increased significantly in March but has gone slightly down in August. Yet your trigs have gone down.

Someone posted a youtube link on the dangers of high fructose corn syrup, unfortunately I can not find it. The lecturer, if I remember well a Dr., said that (in my words & understanding) LDL measures include VLDL, the really bad cholesterol. If triglycerides are low, it tends to mean low levels of VLDL. In other words, I would say that even though your LDL has increased, because your trigs have gone down, it is most likely the "good"/less dangerous particles that have increased.

So from my understanding your heart health is improving!

What have you done differently from  Sept '10 to March and from then till August other than exercise? What foods have you significantly changed?

I think you are doing great! Keep on going with your research and good habits.

All the best  

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Susana
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 9:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from 14442
Barry Sears, author of The Zone says the best way to lower LDL is to reduce blood sugar:


And, if I understand correctly, Dr. D recommends avoidance of lectins to reduce blood sugar and its negative consequences. In my Swami he also recommends a moderate deemphasis of high glycemic index foods.


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Susana
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 10:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Patty, you may want to read this article from the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/3/229/F4

It is a one size fit all but it it shows the effect on low carb and Mediterranean diet (moderate grains) on lipids and glucose. It helped me gain confidence on Dr. D's recommendation on grains especially the idea that "allowed" grains are not necessarily bad for the health of the heart.

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Patty H
Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 12:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Susana
Patty, you may want to read this article from the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/3/229/F4

It is a one size fit all but it it shows the effect on low carb and Mediterranean diet (moderate grains) on lipids and glucose. It helped me gain confidence on Dr. D's recommendation on grains especially the idea that "allowed" grains are not necessarily bad for the health of the heart.



Thanks for sharing that, Susana.  I appreciate it and have tried to incorporate some compliant grains once a day.  


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sunnyside
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 1:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Any one knows what high HDL means? I have total cholesterol 268 but HDL 127.
My BMI is 19 and do regular exercise everyday.
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krisaf
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Patty, I read quickly through the thread and didn't see any questions concerning your thyroid function?  My TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone)recently went up to the upper level of normal and my cholesterol and LDH increased.  I have a history of a thyroid disorder and have learned that there is a connection there between thyroid and cholesterol. With my medication increased, bringing my TSH back to a more optimal level, my cholesterol and LDH are coming back down. The doctors seem to zero in on the
cholesterol and right away want to prescribe a statin drug!  I refused my Dr. on that
and as I got up to leave he said- OH, by the way, your thyroid levels are a bit off!!
He then increased my thyroid medication to address that.   He would have first had me agree to take the statin drug before seeing if addressing the thyroid issue would help!
I also have begun to follow a gluten free diet to address the autoimmune part of my
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.
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ABJoe
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 3:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from sunnyside
Any one knows what high HDL means? I have total cholesterol 268 but HDL 127.
My BMI is 19 and do regular exercise everyday.

High HDL is good...  


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Patty H
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 3:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from krisaf
Patty, I read quickly through the thread and didn't see any questions concerning your thyroid function?  My TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone)recently went up to the upper level of normal and my cholesterol and LDH increased.  I have a history of a thyroid disorder and have learned that there is a connection there between thyroid and cholesterol. With my medication increased, bringing my TSH back to a more optimal level, my cholesterol and LDH are coming back down. The doctors seem to zero in on the
cholesterol and right away want to prescribe a statin drug!  I refused my Dr. on that
and as I got up to leave he said- OH, by the way, your thyroid levels are a bit off!!
He then increased my thyroid medication to address that.   He would have first had me agree to take the statin drug before seeing if addressing the thyroid issue would help!
I also have begun to follow a gluten free diet to address the autoimmune part of my
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.


My thyroid levels have all been in the normal range.  However, I have taken my basal body temperature and it has been low in the mornings.  I spoke with my natural health care practitioner.  She have me a metagenics product for thyroid regulation just in case but she does not think that is the problem.  Interestingly enough my mother has had hypothyroidism for years.  My sister was recently diagnosed with the same.  My cholesterol is not considered too high for an O according to Dr. D's cardio book and my ratios are very good.  I will make sure my PCP continues to monitor my thyroid level given my family history.



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ruthiegirl
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty- I remember you had issues with heavy metal toxicity and got treatment for that. Did that affect your cholesterol levels in any way?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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tessieUK
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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One thing you could do with exercising to see if this improves things, is incorporate some sprint intervals into your routine. Maybe replacing one of the standard jogs with a session a week of 8-10 sprints with slow jog recovery over a lesser distance. It does sound like you are doing a more challenging workout than slow steady cardio, with all the hills, however it's very important to increase the difficulty of your workout regularly otherwise you are not triggering any more adaptive changes, only maintaining an equilbrium. Getting your heart rate up to the point you are gasping for breath, then allowing yourself to recover and repeating, is very strengthening for the heart, because you are increasing the 'reserve capacity.' Some info about that here: http://www.alsearsmd.com/pace2/jvnb/

The more intense the exercise, the better the de-stressing effects for an O, and keeping yourself in a calm balanced state generally is going to lower your risks of health problems.
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krisaf
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 4:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Just keep in mind that the TSH is better in the lower end of the normal range- mine came down to 1.6.
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Patty H
Friday, September 28, 2012, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Patty- I remember you had issues with heavy metal toxicity and got treatment for that. Did that affect your cholesterol levels in any way?


Ruthie, although my levels are down significantly, I am still highly toxic.  I had to stop the chelation therapy because I was not methylating.  I just had it checked again and I am still having problems with methylation.  I don't go to my PCP until November and I will get my blood tests then, so I don't know if the chelation therapy has had an effect on cholesterol.  I have a sense that I will be detoxing the heavy metals for a long time to come.  Thanks for asking!


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Patty H
Friday, September 28, 2012, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from tessieUK
One thing you could do with exercising to see if this improves things, is incorporate some sprint intervals into your routine. Maybe replacing one of the standard jogs with a session a week of 8-10 sprints with slow jog recovery over a lesser distance. It does sound like you are doing a more challenging workout than slow steady cardio, with all the hills, however it's very important to increase the difficulty of your workout regularly otherwise you are not triggering any more adaptive changes, only maintaining an equilbrium. Getting your heart rate up to the point you are gasping for breath, then allowing yourself to recover and repeating, is very strengthening for the heart, because you are increasing the 'reserve capacity.' Some info about that here: http://www.alsearsmd.com/pace2/jvnb/

The more intense the exercise, the better the de-stressing effects for an O, and keeping yourself in a calm balanced state generally is going to lower your risks of health problems.


Unfortunately I have posterior tibial tendonitis in both legs, so no running, walking or sprinting for me.  I can only do non-wieght bearing exercise for now  



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Patty H
Friday, September 28, 2012, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from krisaf
Just keep in mind that the TSH is better in the lower end of the normal range- mine came down to 1.6.


My TSH was .75 in September 2010 and .71 in August 2011.  I have also had my T3 tested two times over the past year and it has always been in the normal range.


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krisaf
Friday, September 28, 2012, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Guess we can put that idea to bed then!
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Patty H
Friday, September 28, 2012, 10:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from krisaf
Guess we can put that idea to bed then!




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Mrs T O+
Monday, October 1, 2012, 3:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Juliekim: Those are great numbers. The amount/ratio of HDL is more important than the total number.
As for Patty: Did you have a SWAMI?  Is your cholesterol problem just more stubborn than someone else's. It may take longer to get the numbers down.
What blood type are the relatives with the heart problems?

I try to avoid cancer, but I know that my mom who got cancer was an A and my sis & I are Os.  Therefore I don't worry as much. (But I don't assume, either!)

There are answers out there somewhere!


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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JJR
Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It looked like it went up though Mrs. T after following her diet.

I am certainly no expert, and I can totally relate.  My cholesterol has always been high and the normal doctors have pushed me to take drugs.  But this is what I know:

Mine keeps going down and down.  I follow my swami, almost to a fault.  And I'm not trying to start a war, but I eat huge amounts of oatmeal. I eat almost a cup of dried oatmeal every other day.  I flip flop between rice and oatmeal every day.  But I'm an AB. So....

But one thing is that my HDL's are pretty high.  Not as high as someone posted above, 127 is sky high, which is good.  But mine are always around 80 or so and it always helps my ratio.  I don't know if you saw, but I just posted in the swami section about my experience.  

My last numbers were:

242 total
146 LDL
84 HDL
58 Trig

It's a 2.9 ratio.  The ratio is so good, I'm not worried about it at all.  Plus, for about 2-3 years I had hovered around 300.  One time it was 380.  I as very sick at the time.  And I remember eating gobs of ice cream at the time too.  So..... But even at the 380 time, my ratio was still around 4/1 because my HDL's were real high that time.  It was almost like it was regulating itself.

I have some thoughts that might help.

1. I was metal toxic, and had all my amalgams out.  And it does appear that it has dropped steadily since that time.  Could be a coincidence, might not be. Maybe the liver is becoming less clogged.

2. I have been taking a teaspoon of Cod Liver oil every day, for as long as I can remember.  It was one of the first things I started to do when I developed health problems.  This might help the HDL number.  My Cardiologist also seems to think it's a very good practice.  

3. If it is the metal issue, than food probably doesn't have as much to do with it.  In the last 6 months, I've eaten more quantities of all food categories than I have in years.  And my cholesterol went down.  I eat somewhere between, 8-12 ounces of meat every day, an egg, a little butter, more olive oil than I used to eat, and it's still going down.  And yeah, I eat a real good amount of grain every day.  And my BMI is 20 according to this last test I just took.  Low normal.  I'm not overweight by any means and I was grossly underweight.

In my case, if I had to guess, it has more to do with how healthy my liver and insides are, moreso than the food.  Having said that, I make all our foods fresh / frozen and eat out about once a week and am very choosy about what I eat out.  I pretty much avoid thickeners, and preservatives that I can't pronounce or spell.  I eat salads every day and when I go out to eat, that's usually what I have, but the only dressing I use is olive oil.  I think for me, those things might be helping "un gum" my liver.  And my cholesterol is going down because of it.  Possibly.

Or maybe it's all just dumb luck.  I don't know.  But I thought I'd throw out my thoughts to you also.  It has always concerned me also.  But I'm getting less and less concerned about it.  

One thing you said strikes me very hard.  And I've heard this said before too, you said you had family with Low Cholesterol that have had heart attacks.  And ones with High.  So, I think it's possible you're looking in the wrong place to avoid a heart attack.  One of the people posted an article about how "inflammation" is a bigger deal.  And I've heard this theory before.  How you avoid that, I'm not sure.  Eat anti inflammatory foods.  Which include grass fed beef and good oils.  Pineapple.  Etc.  And then there is the theory of High homocysteine.  And then something about the genetic of IL4.  I'm not really sure they know how to prevent heart attacks.  And I think it's a hard deal because it's different for everyone.  I try not to worry about it any more and give it to God.  I do what I can as far as my health, but I'm not sure if there is a perfect solution to avoiding one.  

One more thing, my Doctor has a supplement called "Policoosinol" that helps lower cholesterol.  I was on that for a while once.  I don't need it any longer though, I guess.    


And FWIW, when I say I try not to worry about it any longer and give it to God, I still struggle with fears about it.  For example, a friend from Church just had one.  And man if I wasn't struggling with fears about it happening to me.   I always tell my wife and she always tells me not to worry.  My doctor has told me the same thing.  It's all good.  I would say your numbers aren't really bad at all.  The ratio is still pretty good.  I've seen it marked on test that anywhere from 2/1 to 4/1 is acceptable.  The doctors just look at that overall number and tell you it's a reason to get you hooked on a drug.  That benefits a whole lot of other people.  But I'm not sure they're that good for your liver.  But that is something we all have to come to our own conclusion about.  I've never taken any though.  



The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Patty H
Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 10:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mrs T O+
Juliekim: Those are great numbers. The amount/ratio of HDL is more important than the total number.
As for Patty: Did you have a SWAMI?  Is your cholesterol problem just more stubborn than someone else's. It may take longer to get the numbers down.
What blood type are the relatives with the heart problems?

I try to avoid cancer, but I know that my mom who got cancer was an A and my sis & I are Os.  Therefore I don't worry as much. (But I don't assume, either!)

There are answers out there somewhere!


Mrs T O+ - two of my siblings (brother and sister) are A's and my other brother is an O.  One of my cousins is definitely an O.  All three siblings have had bypass surgery as has my O cousin.  All the male cousins on my Dad's side have heart disease and some of the females as well.  I assume my dad was an O because my mother is an A.  In this case, BT has not mattered.  The family history is on my Dad's side.  In this case, it seems to be genetic rather than blood type related.


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Patty H
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Quoted from JJR
It looked like it went up though Mrs. T after following her diet.

I am certainly no expert, and I can totally relate.  My cholesterol has always been high and the normal doctors have pushed me to take drugs.  But this is what I know:

Mine keeps going down and down.  I follow my swami, almost to a fault.  And I'm not trying to start a war, but I eat huge amounts of oatmeal. I eat almost a cup of dried oatmeal every other day.  I flip flop between rice and oatmeal every day.  But I'm an AB. So....

But one thing is that my HDL's are pretty high.  Not as high as someone posted above, 127 is sky high, which is good.  But mine are always around 80 or so and it always helps my ratio.  I don't know if you saw, but I just posted in the swami section about my experience.  

My last numbers were:

242 total
146 LDL
84 HDL
58 Trig

It's a 2.9 ratio.  The ratio is so good, I'm not worried about it at all.  Plus, for about 2-3 years I had hovered around 300.  One time it was 380.  I as very sick at the time.  And I remember eating gobs of ice cream at the time too.  So..... But even at the 380 time, my ratio was still around 4/1 because my HDL's were real high that time.  It was almost like it was regulating itself.

I have some thoughts that might help.

1. I was metal toxic, and had all my amalgams out.  And it does appear that it has dropped steadily since that time.  Could be a coincidence, might not be. Maybe the liver is becoming less clogged.

2. I have been taking a teaspoon of Cod Liver oil every day, for as long as I can remember.  It was one of the first things I started to do when I developed health problems.  This might help the HDL number.  My Cardiologist also seems to think it's a very good practice.  

3. If it is the metal issue, than food probably doesn't have as much to do with it.  In the last 6 months, I've eaten more quantities of all food categories than I have in years.  And my cholesterol went down.  I eat somewhere between, 8-12 ounces of meat every day, an egg, a little butter, more olive oil than I used to eat, and it's still going down.  And yeah, I eat a real good amount of grain every day.  And my BMI is 20 according to this last test I just took.  Low normal.  I'm not overweight by any means and I was grossly underweight.

In my case, if I had to guess, it has more to do with how healthy my liver and insides are, moreso than the food.  Having said that, I make all our foods fresh / frozen and eat out about once a week and am very choosy about what I eat out.  I pretty much avoid thickeners, and preservatives that I can't pronounce or spell.  I eat salads every day and when I go out to eat, that's usually what I have, but the only dressing I use is olive oil.  I think for me, those things might be helping "un gum" my liver.  And my cholesterol is going down because of it.  Possibly.

Or maybe it's all just dumb luck.  I don't know.  But I thought I'd throw out my thoughts to you also.  It has always concerned me also.  But I'm getting less and less concerned about it.  

One thing you said strikes me very hard.  And I've heard this said before too, you said you had family with Low Cholesterol that have had heart attacks.  And ones with High.  So, I think it's possible you're looking in the wrong place to avoid a heart attack.  One of the people posted an article about how "inflammation" is a bigger deal.  And I've heard this theory before.  How you avoid that, I'm not sure.  Eat anti inflammatory foods.  Which include grass fed beef and good oils.  Pineapple.  Etc.  And then there is the theory of High homocysteine.  And then something about the genetic of IL4.  I'm not really sure they know how to prevent heart attacks.  And I think it's a hard deal because it's different for everyone.  I try not to worry about it any more and give it to God.  I do what I can as far as my health, but I'm not sure if there is a perfect solution to avoiding one.  

One more thing, my Doctor has a supplement called "Policoosinol" that helps lower cholesterol.  I was on that for a while once.  I don't need it any longer though, I guess.    


And FWIW, when I say I try not to worry about it any longer and give it to God, I still struggle with fears about it.  For example, a friend from Church just had one.  And man if I wasn't struggling with fears about it happening to me.   I always tell my wife and she always tells me not to worry.  My doctor has told me the same thing.  It's all good.  I would say your numbers aren't really bad at all.  The ratio is still pretty good.  I've seen it marked on test that anywhere from 2/1 to 4/1 is acceptable.  The doctors just look at that overall number and tell you it's a reason to get you hooked on a drug.  That benefits a whole lot of other people.  But I'm not sure they're that good for your liver.  But that is something we all have to come to our own conclusion about.  I've never taken any though.  



JJR, it will be interesting to see if my cholesterol is lower after having my amalgams out.  Actually, I am not too worried anymore.  My ratios are really good and I had my particle size measured and I am good  


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JJR
Thursday, October 4, 2012, 12:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Great!!

What is a "particle size"?


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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ruthiegirl
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It's a test of how "fluffy" the cholesterol particles are. I think it's the dense particles that are dangerous, while the "fluffy" ones are harmless, but I could have it backwards.

Basically, it means that you could have a "bad" HDL/LDL ratio but still be "heart healthy" if the particle size is good.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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AKArtlover
Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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JJR
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I like how it says cardiac arrest and "sudden death" are a symptom of low magnesium.  I'm assuming anyone with that "symptom" would not be looking on that website.

I used to take cal-mag-k and it seemed to help with my heart arrhythmia at the time.  I don't feel I need it any longer, but I do wonder if my magnesium isn't the greatest level.

I've heard that LDL's can be broken up in to different categories and some are better than others.  It's very complex.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  Lowering Cholesterol with Compliant Grains

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