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Lowering Cholesterol with Compliant Grains  This thread currently has 2,762 views. Print Print Thread
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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 6:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I observed this can be relevant for secretors but not for nonnies.... nearly all my clients which are nonnies didn't reacted well onto the intake of any grains....


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark
I would think that exercise would normalize your lipid panel as well. I tried oatmeal (soaked) a while ago.

These were my results:

LDL: 89 --> 106
Triglycerides: 21 --> 39
Cholesterol: 156 --> 175
Very LDL: 3 --> 9

Needless to say, I was not eager to continue my daily oats. I think that if I did not exercise during that second period my lipid panel would have been worse.


Hi Mark, I am exercising - I am running three miles, 3-4 days a week and then doing abs, light weights, leg lifts, supermans, etc., 2 days a week.  I just started the exercise routine after my last cholesterol check in March and my trip to Dr. Nash in mid-April.  I really thought the exercise would lower my LDL.  I started the BTD in mid-October, 2010.

Here are my numbers pre-BTD/GTD, then in March, then last week:

9/22/10
Total Cholesterol = 225
HLD = 62
LDL = 143
Triglygerides = 102

3/31/11
Total Cholesterol = 258
HLD = 68
LDL = 174
Triglygerides = 82

8/25/11
Total Cholesterol = 254
HLD = 70
LDL = 168
Triglygerides = 78

The second set of tests was before I started exercising regularly, although I had begun to do vigorous walking.  My run is through very hilly woods, so the trail is challenging.  I live on the highest hill in my town and the surrounding woods are filled with elevation changes.

Maybe you can understand my frustration with totally changing my diet, developing and maintaining an exercise routine, only to see my cholesterol go up.  I am specifically on this diet to try and beat the premature heart disease in my family, so cholesterol is something I need to take seriously.  That is the only reason I decided to go on the diet.  I had no chronic illness or digestive issues whatsoever.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from ilmuller
Hi Patty,

My Cholesterol dropped from 297 to 215 (I am in Germany/ Russia) after I started with the O type diet (I was told I had Epstein Virus). I cut down on grains, milk, nightshadow veggies, sugar and eat with every meal a protein (chicken, beef, salmon or eggs). With every 100g beef/chicken or fish, I get at least 300g veggies. I am using now only Olive oil... and I do not heat it - only cold. I use ghee or butter for cooking. The veggies i normaly cooked in the microwave (even though many say it is not healthy). I dropped quite a lot of kg (pounds) and I feel very very well. Oh... and when I eat some ice cream I get the whole ice cream (at leat here in Russia- unfortunately there is sugar in it.... but eating ice cream is not a routine - so it is quite OK
Oh..after hearing to much that "we need grains" and that my body needs some vitamin that come only with grains- I decided to have once a week some rice and last week I sprouted some 30g. That was OK. In the morning when I miss my "bread" I prepare the magic bread with flax seed (flax seed meal and egg).
Oh... I drink a lot of herbs tee and water. Coffee ist out  
Regards
Ingrid


It sounds like things are working well for you, Ingrid.  Unfortunately, that is not the case with me.  My cholesterol has gone up, not down since I have been on the BTD/GTD.


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
I observed this can be relevant for secretors but not for nonnies.... nearly all my clients which are nonnies didn't reacted well onto the intake of any grains....


Well that is good to know.  I think I need to set up a conference call with Dr. Nash.  I will wait until I get the rest of my blood tests back so we can look at the whole picture.

I did read some info on amino acids.  I will talk to Dr. Nash about this as well.  Thanks for the info!


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'm not going to start eating oats again just to lower my cholesterol; I would have to think long and hard about that.  Isn't the real problem Metabolic Syndrome X; ie, higher cholesterol and lipid levels due to higher insulin, ie, insulin resistance?  

http://metabolic-syndrome.insulitelabs.com/Metabolic-Syndrome-High-Cholesterol.php

I would take krill or fish oil before I would eat oatmeal and I LOVE oatmeal.

I'm wondering Patty H if you know what your body fat % is.  It can't be that high if you run all the time but seems like that would be an important number to take in to account.  

Other people on here I've read are following Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains IF approach.  His system is an 8 hour feeding window between noon and 8, similar to what Patty says she already does.
http://www.leangains.com/
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
I'm not going to start eating oats again just to lower my cholesterol; I would have to think long and hard about that.  Isn't the real problem Metabolic Syndrome X; ie, higher cholesterol and lipid levels due to higher insulin, ie, insulin resistance?  

http://metabolic-syndrome.insulitelabs.com/Metabolic-Syndrome-High-Cholesterol.php

I would take krill or fish oil before I would eat oatmeal and I LOVE oatmeal.

I'm wondering Patty H if you know what your body fat % is.  It can't be that high if you run all the time but seems like that would be an important number to take in to account.  

Other people on here I've read are following Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains IF approach.  His system is an 8 hour feeding window between noon and 8, similar to what Patty says she already does.
http://www.leangains.com/


Sahara, I don't have metabolic syndrome X.  I am thin and do not have diabetes.  My triglycerides and HDL are fine.  I eat fish all the time - at least 7 times a week or more.  I suppose I could try fish oil.  I have some.  My body fat is around 22%.  I also have pretty large breasts for a small hunter, so I would imagine that adds to my body fat  


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Amazone I.
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 8:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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good idea to contact Dr. Nash PH   please give her my best regards  


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
good idea to contact Dr. Nash PH   please give her my best regards  


I want to wait to get the rest of my blood test results and then I will definitely contact her and send her your best regards  


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C_Sharp
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Definitely take Dr. Nash advice over mine.

I wondered if you had looked at the Cardiovascular book, and whether there were things in it that are different than what you are currently doing.

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED065S


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp
Definitely take Dr. Nash advice over mine.

I wondered if you had looked at the Cardiovascular book, and whether there were things in it that are different than what you are currently doing.

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED065S


Hi C Sharp, I have the book and have actually read it several times.  I'll look at it again.  Maybe I missed something  

Personally, I think I might need to cut back on saturated fat and eat more fruit and compliant grains.


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I don't want to argue but from what all I've been reading this year, cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks. Elevated insulin is a much more important factor.  Something called the Framingham Study has debunked Ancel Keyes Lipid Hypothesis:

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

Again, the Framingham Study which followed 15,000 participants over three generations:

There is a direct association between falling cholesterol levels over the first 14 years and mortality over the following 18 years.”

In other words, as cholesterol fell death rates went up.

The Honolulu Heart Program study, with 8,000 participants, published in 2001:

“Long-term persistence of low cholesterol concentration actually increases the risk of death. Thus, the earlier the patients start to have lower cholesterol concentrations, the greater the risk of death.”

And finally, the huge Japanese Lipid Intervention Trial with over 47,000 participants:

“The highest death rate observed was among those with lowest cholesterol (under 160mg/dl); lowest death rate observed was with those whose cholesterol was between 200-259mg/dl”

In other words, those with the lowest cholesterol had the highest death rate, and those with cholesterol levels that would today be called “dangerous” had the lowest death rate.

As you can see, not only does high cholesterol not cause heart disease, low cholesterol can actually be dangerous to your health.
So toss out your vegetable oil and start eating butter and eggs again! But more on that next week…


Dr. Michael Eades further explains the Framingham Study in this blog post:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/

The study conclusions:

    With one exception there was no discernible association between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol level in the Framingham Diet Study Group. The one exception was a weak negative association between caloric intake and serum cholesterol level in men. [As to] coronary heart disease–was it related prospectively to diet. No relationship was found.

So, I would say that the results of this study were pretty clear. These guys tried as hard as they could to show a correlation between diet and serum cholesterol and between diet and the incidence of coronary heart disease, but failed. The data conclusively demonstrated no such correlations.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered the yellowed news clipping shown below taped into the back of my $80 booklet. This clipping, from the Framingham newspaper dated October 30, 1970, is worth the $80 all by itself. Apparently, despite all the supporting evidence, Dr. Kannel, the director of the study and the guy listed as lead author, wasn’t buying into all this nonsense about there being no correlation. He felt the need to ‘clarify’ the already crystal clear findings.

The clipping begins:

    Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet Study group, “it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol,” Dr. William B. Kannel, director of the Framingham Heart Study has stated.

Clarification, indeed.

Hmmm, I guess Dr. Kannel didn’t enjoy the surprise ending of that movie, so decided to change it on the fly. I think the rest of this remarkable clipping is legible, so read it and laugh. It’s a grand example of what I’ve written about before: scientists who present their conclusions one way in a scientific paper that other scientists will look at and call them on if they are incorrect and a totally different way to the press that reports to the population at large.

Further reading/study is probably the best bet.  I would read Eat Fat Lose Fat by Mary Enig and Shwarzbein Principle for sure.  

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14442  -  Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:13pm
14442  -  Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:10pm
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Drea
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty, you've been swami-d by Dr. Nash, so what are your suggested portion sizes/frequencies for grains? And do you adhere to them, for the most part?

After reading this thread, I realized that I stopped eating oat bran a couple months ago, and wondered if that's why my own LDL went up. But I'm an A, and am allowed 3 servings per day of grains (oat bran being a diamond). I rarely eat that much grain, though...


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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Joy
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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PattyH,

I didn't read every post here but scanned them.  I'm sure you'll try several of the suggestions.

As I read what your husband eats for breakfast oatmeal with cinnamon (cinnamon spice stood out like a beacon to me)

I got some from my favorate spice website http://www.MySpiceSage.com only because I like spices from other countries.  

Everyday cinnamon that you get in the grocery store seems to be vastly underrated.
Just do a search about cinnamon benefits.  One of them is "lowers the bad cholestrol".

I'm not saying that its a panacea for you in particular but sometimes certain food changes will effect a change for the better.

Hope its true for you.

Joy
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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Drea
Patty, you've been swami-d by Dr. Nash, so what are your suggested portion sizes/frequencies for grains? And do you adhere to them, for the most part?

After reading this thread, I realized that I stopped eating oat bran a couple months ago, and wondered if that's why my own LDL went up. But I'm an A, and am allowed 3 servings per day of grains (oat bran being a diamond). I rarely eat that much grain, though...


No Drea, I am not adhering to them which is why I think I might need to adhere.  It is what Lola recommends as well.  I get one serving of carbs a day and 3 servings of fruit a day.

If you can have oat bran, I would eat it.  You must have read in all my chatter that my husband's cholesterol dropped 57 points since I have been on the diet.  He is an O secretor so can have oatmeal and eats it every morning.  Clearly, my diet is benefiting him!!!  


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Patty H
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from 14442
I don't want to argue but from what all I've been reading this year, cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks. Elevated insulin is a much more important factor.  Something called the Framingham Study has debunked Ancel Keyes Lipid Hypothesis:

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

Again, the Framingham Study which followed 15,000 participants over three generations:

There is a direct association between falling cholesterol levels over the first 14 years and mortality over the following 18 years.”

In other words, as cholesterol fell death rates went up.

The Honolulu Heart Program study, with 8,000 participants, published in 2001:

“Long-term persistence of low cholesterol concentration actually increases the risk of death. Thus, the earlier the patients start to have lower cholesterol concentrations, the greater the risk of death.”

And finally, the huge Japanese Lipid Intervention Trial with over 47,000 participants:

“The highest death rate observed was among those with lowest cholesterol (under 160mg/dl); lowest death rate observed was with those whose cholesterol was between 200-259mg/dl”

In other words, those with the lowest cholesterol had the highest death rate, and those with cholesterol levels that would today be called “dangerous” had the lowest death rate.

As you can see, not only does high cholesterol not cause heart disease, low cholesterol can actually be dangerous to your health.
So toss out your vegetable oil and start eating butter and eggs again! But more on that next week…


Dr. Michael Eades further explains the Framingham Study in this blog post:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/

The study conclusions:

    With one exception there was no discernible association between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol level in the Framingham Diet Study Group. The one exception was a weak negative association between caloric intake and serum cholesterol level in men. [As to] coronary heart disease–was it related prospectively to diet. No relationship was found.

So, I would say that the results of this study were pretty clear. These guys tried as hard as they could to show a correlation between diet and serum cholesterol and between diet and the incidence of coronary heart disease, but failed. The data conclusively demonstrated no such correlations.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered the yellowed news clipping shown below taped into the back of my $80 booklet. This clipping, from the Framingham newspaper dated October 30, 1970, is worth the $80 all by itself. Apparently, despite all the supporting evidence, Dr. Kannel, the director of the study and the guy listed as lead author, wasn’t buying into all this nonsense about there being no correlation. He felt the need to ‘clarify’ the already crystal clear findings.

The clipping begins:

    Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet Study group, “it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol,” Dr. William B. Kannel, director of the Framingham Heart Study has stated.

Clarification, indeed.

Hmmm, I guess Dr. Kannel didn’t enjoy the surprise ending of that movie, so decided to change it on the fly. I think the rest of this remarkable clipping is legible, so read it and laugh. It’s a grand example of what I’ve written about before: scientists who present their conclusions one way in a scientific paper that other scientists will look at and call them on if they are incorrect and a totally different way to the press that reports to the population at large.

Further reading/study is probably the best bet.  I would read Eat Fat Lose Fat by Mary Enig and Shwarzbein Principle for sure.  


Yes, but what about a severe family history of premature heart disease?  We have both in our family.  People with elevated cholesterol who have had heart attacks and people with extremely low cholesterol (my sister and brother) who have had heart attacks.

My family history makes things bit more complicated.


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Sahara
Sunday, August 28, 2011, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I personally am not going to let family genetics run my life.  I prefer to use common sense personally.  My mother's side of the family doesn't eat right, doesn't exercise, and has heart disease.  I focus on what I can control & frankly, I've never felt as good mentally as I have since I started eating butter daily.  
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Sahara
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Gosh, just found this information from a cardiologist named Dr. Davis.  He is against not just wheat but all grains & has a new book called Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/user/wheatbelly#p/a/u/1/C7xTIZ5Wwog

He is even against oatmeal!  

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/03/oatmeal-good-or-bad.html
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Drea
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 14442
Gosh, just found this information from a cardiologist named Dr. Davis.  He is against not just wheat but all grains & has a new book called Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/user/wheatbelly#p/a/u/1/C7xTIZ5Wwog

He is even against oatmeal!  

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/03/oatmeal-good-or-bad.html


Another one-size-fits-all approach.


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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Sahara
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Grains in general are bad news for Os.     I have a blood type A friend who has yet to lose his belly on a bowl of oatmeal a day.
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Drea
Friday, September 16, 2011, 9:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from 14442
Grains in general are bad news for Os.     I have a blood type A friend who has yet to lose his belly on a bowl of oatmeal a day.


I agree with the first statement.

I do fine on 1 serving of grains per day, though I'm allowed 3 servings per day on my swami. I've done a lot of testing on myself to know that going grain-free does me no good (I gain, rather than lose weight), but I also don't do well eating all three servings per day.





Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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Patty H
Friday, September 16, 2011, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from 14442
I personally am not going to let family genetics run my life.  I prefer to use common sense personally.  My mother's side of the family doesn't eat right, doesn't exercise, and has heart disease.  I focus on what I can control & frankly, I've never felt as good mentally as I have since I started eating butter daily.  


I don't disagree Sahara, but well all three of your siblings have had bypass surgery between the age of 54 - 59 (two had heart attacks and went into cardia arrest) and all your male cousins have heart disease and one female cousin (all on the paternal side), it becomes a bit more difficult to ignore.  I was pretty much ignoring it until my sister had a heart attack in December.  Up until then, we all thought it was the men in the family.  None of them have a terrible diet, either.  It is certainly not as good as mine, but it is better than the average American diet, I would think.  
Sometimes genetics are a factor that one cannot ignore.

It sounds more like the heart disease on your mother's side is more from poor choices rather than genetics, but who knows.  The best we can do is take care of ourselves the best we can!

Also, Dr. D does recommend one serving of compliant grains a day.  Someone posted a quote from him on one of the threads.  He said we need compliant grains to help with colon health, which is a weakness for O's. But to each his own!  


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Sahara
Monday, September 19, 2011, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I was thinking about alpha lipoic acid over the weekend and how it helps improve insulin response so googled to see if it is correlated with cholesterol control and found this:

http://www.stopagingnow.com/liveinthenow/article/zap-high-cholesterol-with-alpha-lipoic-acid

http://www.livestrong.com/article/432934-alpha-lipoic-acid-cholesterol/

A study in the January 2008 issue of the journal "Circulation" found that alpha lipoic acid prevents atherosclerosis in laboratory animals. Diets consisting of 15 percent fat and 4 percent fat supplemented with 0.2 percent alpha lipoic acid reduced atherosclerotic plaque formation in both diets. Alpha lipoic acid supplementation resulted in 40 percent less weight gain, lower levels of very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, VLDL, and triglycerides. Additionally, scientists observed lower levels of inflammation in the aorta -- the main blood vessel that supplies the body. Researchers concluded that alpha lipoic acid inhibited atherosclerosis by preventing weight gain, lowering triglycerides and reducing inflammation in this preliminary animal study.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/432934-alpha-lipoic-acid-cholesterol/#ixzz1YQ9bavyw
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Sahara
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 8:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Barry Sears, author of The Zone says the best way to lower LDL is to reduce blood sugar:

http://www.zonediet.com/blog/2011/06/another-new-wrinkle-in-the-cholesterol-story/
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Susana
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 9:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am not a Dr. (I would bet on Dr. Nash's recommendations) but from what I understand from all the cholesterol "lectures" I've run into, your numbers are improving.

Your HDL has increased which supposedly is the best safeguard towards heart ailments.

Your LDL increased significantly in March but has gone slightly down in August. Yet your trigs have gone down.

Someone posted a youtube link on the dangers of high fructose corn syrup, unfortunately I can not find it. The lecturer, if I remember well a Dr., said that (in my words & understanding) LDL measures include VLDL, the really bad cholesterol. If triglycerides are low, it tends to mean low levels of VLDL. In other words, I would say that even though your LDL has increased, because your trigs have gone down, it is most likely the "good"/less dangerous particles that have increased.

So from my understanding your heart health is improving!

What have you done differently from  Sept '10 to March and from then till August other than exercise? What foods have you significantly changed?

I think you are doing great! Keep on going with your research and good habits.

All the best  

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Susana
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Quoted from 14442
Barry Sears, author of The Zone says the best way to lower LDL is to reduce blood sugar:


And, if I understand correctly, Dr. D recommends avoidance of lectins to reduce blood sugar and its negative consequences. In my Swami he also recommends a moderate deemphasis of high glycemic index foods.


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