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A thread to discuss lyme disease*  This thread currently has 169,953 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 3:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Have any of you heard of or tried lumbrokinase, nattokinase, or serrapeptase?  They are enzymes that purportedly help break up Lyme and other types of biofilms.
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JJR
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 7:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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No, I haven't even heard of them.  I can run it past my Doctor.  Where did you hear of them?


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Goldie
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 10:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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actually while we are laughing.. I bought a jacket that feels so soft and smooth and light as soon as I put it on, it feels like the hair on a cat -on my skin.. it is so warm..  but its not fuzzy just soo soft


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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TJ
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 11:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/betaine-hcl-protocol/

You can also do a search for "lyme busters".
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Goldie
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I just came to page 21 and found this again..

There are lyme organizations that have forums like this one where those affected by Lyme disease and coinfections can help each other out.  The book will mention a few of them.

Turn the Corner Foundation.com
Lymenet.org
lymefriends.org
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-disease-support-forums/


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Ribbit
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 9:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ
Have any of you heard of or tried lumbrokinase, nattokinase, or serrapeptase?  They are enzymes that purportedly help break up Lyme and other types of biofilms.


Are those enzymes found in Genoma Security?  I've been taking that.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Ribbit
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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JJ, you got my number if you need somebody to talk to.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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JJR
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you Leanne!!!  Elizabeth is home and I've been home for a couple of days now.  It was good to be home, even it it was alone for a day and a half.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Ribbit
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 10:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm sorry I didn't check this thread earlier.  I really should check in every day.  We need each other.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Thursday, December 29, 2011, 11:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Ribbit
Are those enzymes found in Genoma Security?  I've been taking that.
I don't know.  Maybe these could be useful additions to Genoma Security.

So I'm finally getting on the vitamin D bandwagon.  I went out and actually managed to find a supplement that used olive oil as a base instead of some avoid oil like soybean or safflower.   It's a ray on sunshine in the middle of a period of misery.  I guess I'm flaring or herxing or something unpleasant.  Yesterday I quit taking the supplements that I bought specifically for boosting my immune system just to give myself a break.  Then when I'm feeling better again I'll give them another go -- a "pulse" approach.
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Kim
Friday, December 30, 2011, 10:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I take Genoma Security plus the nattozymes to bust up the biofilm.
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Ribbit
Saturday, December 31, 2011, 1:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from TJ


So I'm finally getting on the vitamin D bandwagon.  I went out and actually managed to find a supplement that used olive oil as a base


Yes.  Nature's Answer has Vitamin D-3 drops that are in olive oil.  That's what I've been feeding the rest of the family.  Mine is in soybean oil, which I'm not crazy about but at least I'm not allergic to it.  I'm pretty sure the fact that we've been taking D for a couple of months has kept us from being sick.  They're just getting over a very mild case of chicken pox, but *none* of us has had anything remotely related to a cold this fall/winter yet.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Kim
Wednesday, January 4, 2012, 1:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I finally got a thread going on BTD on Lymenet.org.  The thread started out talking about Lyme disease and type A's but I got some folks talking about it anyway.  
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TJ
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 1:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Kim
I finally got a thread going on BTD on Lymenet.org.  The thread started out talking about Lyme disease and type A's but I got some folks talking about it anyway.  
How's that thread going?  Are you getting positive feedback and discussion?

I bought a copy of Healing Lyme: Natural Healing and Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis and Its Coinfections by Stephen Harrod Buhner.  So far I've gotten through the intro and most of chapter one.  He has sifted through a great deal of scientific literature on Lyme and so far it looks like a very thorough treatment of the subject.  A fair amount of what I've read so far is over my head, but I've gotten a much better idea of how insidious and adaptable this thing is.  I haven't gotten to the treatment protocols yet.  I'll share more as it seems appropriate, but from the little I've read so far, I'd recommend it for your reading.
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TJ
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 3:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I just found my first bit of practical advice in the book.  It's regarding Astragalus, which is one of the supplements I was taking to support my immune system.  Apparently, Astragalus is a good supplement to protect against infection, or to fight infection if you've just been infected.  However, if you're dealing with late-stage/chronic Lyme, it should be avoided because it can aggravate "auto-immune-like aspects of late-stage infection."  It's no wonder I was feeling so rough while I was supplementing for immune support.
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Spring
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 5:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
I just found my first bit of practical advice in the book.  It's regarding Astragalus, which is one of the supplements I was taking to support my immune system.  Apparently, Astragalus is a good supplement to protect against infection, or to fight infection if you've just been infected.  However, if you're dealing with late-stage/chronic Lyme, it should be avoided because it can aggravate "auto-immune-like aspects of late-stage infection."  It's no wonder I was feeling so rough while I was supplementing for immune support.


You just proved again that old saying of Frances Bacon: Knowledge is power!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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JJR
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I was taking it once a long time ago too (astragalus), and then when I went to my current doctor, they told me I didn't need it.  There are so many types of supps and cures for all types of things, that it's a very complex thing to know what to take when.  And our bodies are always changing. All I know to do is pray, and trust my doctors.  And informing ourselves with good books is good too.  But sometimes information get so convoluted because of how many things there are a person could do.  I mean, there's probably over 3 dozen supps that would be "Good" for me, but there's no way I'm taking them all at once.  No way.  So, therein lies the 30 billion dollar question.  What to do and when to do it.  But that I have to rely on some intuition and some kind of guidance from others and above.

I'm interested to hear more about what this guy has to say though, if you're up to talking about it.  I might have to read it myself sometime.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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nowishow
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 11:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Have any of you heard of or tried lumbrokinase, nattokinase, or serrapeptase?  They are enzymes that purportedly help break up Lyme and other types of biofilms.


I've been taking serrapeptase for about three months and I think it does help. I take it at night before going to bed.


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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nowishow
Thursday, January 5, 2012, 11:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
How's that thread going?  Are you getting positive feedback and discussion?

I bought a copy of Healing Lyme: Natural Healing and Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis and Its Coinfections by Stephen Harrod Buhner.  So far I've gotten through the intro and most of chapter one.  He has sifted through a great deal of scientific literature on Lyme and so far it looks like a very thorough treatment of the subject.  A fair amount of what I've read so far is over my head, but I've gotten a much better idea of how insidious and adaptable this thing is.  I haven't gotten to the treatment protocols yet.  I'll share more as it seems appropriate, but from the little I've read so far, I'd recommend it for your reading.


That's a very good book. Just so you know he's changed the protocol a little. I think you can get the update on his website. Let me know if you can't find it and I'll hunt it down for you. The support protocols are what I use the most from that book. It's a great source.


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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TJ
Friday, January 6, 2012, 3:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from JJR
I'm interested to hear more about what this guy has to say though, if you're up to talking about it.  I might have to read it myself sometime.
I'd recommend it.  The core herbs are Andrographis paniculata, Japanese Knotweed, and Cat's Claw.

Quoted from nowishow
I've been taking serrapeptase for about three months and I think it does help. I take it at night before going to bed.
I just bought some nattokinase tonight.  One poster on Buhner's website had lots of good things to say about it, and suggested that it could help the herbal protocol to be even more effective.

Quoted from nowishow
That's a very good book. Just so you know he's changed the protocol a little. I think you can get the update on his website. Let me know if you can't find it and I'll hunt it down for you. The support protocols are what I use the most from that book. It's a great source.
The only thing I could find was:
BOOK CORRECTIONS
Page 106, under “Specific indications for Lyme disease:” last line. This should be “bartonella coninfection.” NOT “ehrlichia coinfection”.
I'd appreciate knowing where those updates are!
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TJ
Friday, January 6, 2012, 3:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from JJR
I'm interested to hear more about what this guy has to say though, if you're up to talking about it.  I might have to read it myself sometime.


JJR, this might be more interesting than what I posted above:
Rather than making it a priority to kill the Lyme spirochetes in any form, Stephen's approach is as follows:
1. Support collagen structures so that damage to the body systems ceases;
2. Enhance immune function so that the body can deal with the organism itself;
3. Shut down the inflammatory pathways the spirochetes initiate, especially in the CNS;
4. Treat symptoms;
5. And only then, try and kill the spirochete.
The full protocol is listed on the page I linked.
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JJR
Friday, January 6, 2012, 6:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yeah, that sounds like a good list of priorities.  The trifecta I had heard from another source was, 1. Kill the lyme spirochete 2. build immune system 3. deal with the coinfecdtions.  

I like that guys list a little more because of the inflammatory part.  Because I know I've had plenty of that over the last 3 years.  Especially when trying to be active.  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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TJ
Friday, January 6, 2012, 6:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ok, here's an even better link.  This is from 2009:
http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/scottforsgren/Buhner.htm

Apparently Andrographis is no longer in the core protocol, but Siberian ginseng is.
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nowishow
Saturday, January 7, 2012, 12:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Ok, here's an even better link.  This is from 2009:
http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/scottforsgren/Buhner.htm

Apparently Andrographis is no longer in the core protocol, but Siberian ginseng is.


Is Eleutherococcus also called Siberian Ginseng?
He lowered the statis of Andrographis because a lot of people had bad skin responses, but many people really benifit from it.


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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TJ
Saturday, January 7, 2012, 1:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from nowishow
Is Eleutherococcus also called Siberian Ginseng?
Yes: Eleutherococcus senticosus is the proper Latin name.
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