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15yo O and sleeping patterns/insomnia  This thread currently has 2,984 views. Print Print Thread
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Goldie
Thursday, July 21, 2011, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
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Quoted Text
I  don't have the energy to fight with her, and I don't want an antagonistic relationship with her. If she's not doing her part, I won't do mine.


that is the best .. but let go of the anger,, that will stress you more then she ever can if you take the pushbuttons away.. kids have a way of playing pegboard.. hide out in the bathrrom if you have to get away from it long enough to breath.. put on your head phones and listen to whaterver You like..    


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, July 21, 2011, 9:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I try to let go of the anger, which is why I'm letting this issue slide a lot. She expressed interest in fixing her sleep cycles, but she's not very consistent about putting the work in. I still think that, to break this cycle, we might need some kind of strong "sleeping potion" (whether it's herbal or a drug) to get her to actually fall asleep by around midnight on days when her body won't cooperate with sleeping. But she won't let me suggest things for her to take. I'm also not always aware of how late she's up, since I've been going to sleep before her. Number one priority right now is to  take care of myself, and that includes making sure I get enough sleep, even if she doesn't.

Right now, both kids are at a friends' backyard pool. I woke her at noon, and drove them over there around 1:30 PM, once she'd woken up enough to eat something before going over. Hopefully she'll wear herself out and sleep a little better tonight.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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stephanieelise
Saturday, July 23, 2011, 12:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I had a few other ideas over the last few days,

I sleep best now with no pillow at all, but obviously with adequate bedding (its winter here!)

Another thing is that we suspect that my inability to detoxify mercury has played a large role in my chronic insomnia - perhaps you could get her a hair mineral analysis done ???

Perhaps if she has nutritional deficiencies you could try her on a wholefoods powder ??
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PCUK-Positive
Saturday, July 23, 2011, 1:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 13602
I had a few other ideas over the last few days,

I sleep best now with no pillow at all, but obviously with adequate bedding (its winter here!)

Another thing is that we suspect that my inability to detoxify mercury has played a large role in my chronic insomnia - perhaps you could get her a hair mineral analysis done ???

Perhaps if she has nutritional deficiencies you could try her on a wholefoods powder ??


Aren't you a little young to be having mercury problems?


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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stephanieelise
Saturday, July 23, 2011, 5:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Well thats what I thought however I think it is more of a 'gene defect' that may have been passed on from my mother (also an explorer but she has mercury fillings)  .... I've never had a high fish intake or anything like that -

Being an explorer, toxins seem to 'stick with me' longer than most people.

But for years I suffered from unexplainable insomnia - In my teens I spent close to a week straight without sleep (~14/15 years old)
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PCUK-Positive
Saturday, July 23, 2011, 1:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
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Have you thought about becomieng a private detective?


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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stephanieelise
Saturday, July 23, 2011, 11:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Me?? Oh no, but i'll give it some thought !
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ruthiegirl
Monday, July 25, 2011, 6:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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She woke up at 2:00 PM today (I'm running out of energy to wake her up, so I've stopped) and, when I suggested we get dressed so we can go to the library, she complained that "she wants to do something today, not just go to the library." now she's playing on the computer and won't even go to the library with me!

The bottom line is that she's bored and doesnt' have enough activities planned, nor does she have enough friends available to do things with her at the spur of the moment. Most of her friends are in camp or away for the summer. She's just bored and driving me bonkers, and the sleep schedule is one symptom of a bigger problem. If she had something worth getting up for, she'd get up and her schedule would balance out somewhat.

DD1 gets home  from sleepaway camp tomorrow afternoon, and DS goes on Wednesday. I know she'll be up early on Wed, and I'm hoping that the two girls together (plus any friends who may also be home from camp) will develop a more interesting routine than DD2 managed to on her own.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Goldie
Monday, July 25, 2011, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
She woke up at 2:00 PM today (I'm running out of energy to wake her up, so I've stopped) and, when I suggested we get dressed so we can go to the library, she complained that "she wants to do something today, not just go to the library." now she's playing on the computer and won't even go to the library with me!

The bottom line is that she's bored and doesnt' have enough activities planned, nor does she have enough friends available to do things with her at the spur of the moment. Most of her friends are in camp or away for the summer. She's just bored and driving me bonkers, and the sleep schedule is one symptom of a bigger problem. If she had something worth getting up for, she'd get up and her schedule would balance out somewhat.

DD1 gets home  from sleepaway camp tomorrow afternoon, and DS goes on Wednesday. I know she'll be up early on Wed, and I'm hoping that the two girls together (plus any friends who may also be home from camp) will develop a more interesting routine than DD2 managed to on her own.


To all that you wrote I say.. NO.. Nothing is so..

NO to her driving you bonkers..   DON"T let her.. go to the bathroom, the room safe from intruders..

The being on the computer while you wish to do something.. let her.. go to where ever you wish to go.. don’t be angry when leaving, just go, as on escape from whatever is HER reality      


FIND a sitter if you need age wise, or let her be.. THIS IS ONLY a tug of WAR if you tough..

Your own behavior - look in the mirror to see it, your thought shoulders, your stomping on the floor all that is telegraphed to your kid who has chosen this day or week to be anything but what society will allow.  You are right now her link to whatever any teenager would like, the word according to her.. well if you give in by being angry, disappointed or plan upset then she won.. for a long time to come.. she will have arranged to make you dance her tango..

I would much rather she learn that all her ideas about life are screwed up.  she has no choices but to get up 8-9 am and have chores to do.  I mean a kid that can use her energy to drive you dancing to her tone.

I am not idiotic to think what I would propose.. but one thing I would say immediately is that she can not go to camp.. after all she can not get up in the morning.. CALL HER BLUFF if you can mean it.. either she gets up in the morning when camp gets up tomorrow or she does not go.. but you have to mean it.. don't just threaten, do it or forever be good with what is going on.. this is a game.. this is ridiculous, but the question is will you lose out now or later.. Things going bad are just things needing attention and a clear mind of you knowing exactly what you are willing to accept..

THIS IS NOT about the daughter.. this is your bending on your heels until you are the heels she walks on you with..

Starting this minute be mad at me, do what you have to to grow in hight: like a mama bear, get tall and stand your ground.. Be mad at the world for making teens that have little to help with to make this a better place to live.. Be mad at me, it will help..

I have been there, I know how tough the kids can be.. tougher then you any time.. but if she wins now she will forever win against your whole family..

I don't care if she understands the consequences, she needs to understand that you ..in return for not going happily with you where ever you wish to go, when ever it was announced, THEN SHE is jeopardizing her PARTICIPATING in life.. her life as she knows it.. no shopping, no money without chores, no lights after 10 pm and no choices all around.

YOU ARE correct in anything you say about her being bored, and no friends, who needs a friend who is a loser.. in the criminal situations with kids the fear is never will they learn before they get caught in the game they play, but rather will they learn before the stakes are way to high and they end up in trouble.. for real..one way or the other this is for real.. Her school work will be next to suffer.  She should read Pearl S buck books.. Teach her about society and the place we have in it.

In my book you need to decide what you are willing to stay up for.. all night for 2 weeks.. No break! That is the secrete.. Will you be willing to wake her in the morning once at any time you decide like school time and then either, leave her there, or become her slave.. in defeat... and do your own work as needed, and her work too..

One thing is for sure no camp is letting her sleep as she wishes, and no camp waits for her blessings to do things.. YOU are for another day or so her camp director.. either you get it done, or you will pay for many years with the angry child who will not respect you..

A child may be angry, but you need to be clear that her anger has nothing to do with reality, and nothing with YOU>> stay strong.. All you are asking for is RESPECT..

if possible call Aviva..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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ruthiegirl
Monday, July 25, 2011, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Find a sitter? She's 15. Finding her somebody to babysit would be more appropriate!

She's not going to camp this summer. She already knows that, if she wants to come along for the ride when we take DS to camp, she needs to be up on time.

I am NOT getting into a power struggle with her. I refuse to do it- I need to take care of myself first. She's too strong minded for that, and nothing good will come of it. I remember getting into a power struggle with her over toileting when she was nearly 4. One time I sat there, holding her on the toilet, while she held in her bladder until finally I couldn't crouch down by the toilet with her anymore and she wet her diaper. I gave up on toileting altogether at that point, until about a month or two later when she decided on her own she was ready.

Trying to overpower her and "make her get up at 9:00 AM and do chores everyday" is going to drain me. I'm dealing with my own health issues right now. I'd rather set an example by taking care of myself and not being available to her in the middle of the night because I went to bed on time.

I'm not going to wait around for her to get up when I have something to do anymore. I'll just do it, and if she misses out, it's her loss.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Goldie
Monday, July 25, 2011, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted Text
I'm not going to wait around for her to get up when I have something to do anymore. I'll just do it, and if she misses out, it's her loss.


YES TO ALL .. yes indeed.. yes..

A 12.5 year old boy in the neighborhood, is going through the same power struggle with his parents.. specialists suggest anger meds.. but they don't know that this kid slept with his parents until 7 .. mom could not separate earlier..

I think one big stand to be taken sooner rather then later is in the cards for any parent.. and single mothers even more so..

so please if need be- email me.. If nothing else I do understand the postering kids go through..

all the BEST!!!!!    


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Drea
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 12:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl

I'm not going to wait around for her to get up when I have something to do anymore. I'll just do it, and if she misses out, it's her loss.


I think that's the best thing you can do for her (and you). She may learn that the world does not revolve around her, and you can resolve some of your own stress.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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stephanieelise
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 5:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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@ Ruthie -

I'm sure she actually wants to sleep well ... could be a serious underlying problem here !!

Even at 13, 15 , 17 - I really DID want to have a good night sleep because i was fatigued all the time - I mean sure I wanted to hang out with friends till late watching movies or go out to a party but at the end of the day, 95% of the time I wanted to have a good sleep - and actually get to sleep.

I wish someone helped me rather then just saying ' do this' or 'do that' or 'its all in your head' - because as a teenager you can't necessarily be your own doctor.

And I used to snap at my parents because during the longstanding insomnia I wanted to do more then just 'go to the bookstore' or 'walk to the shops' - I felt like I was underachieving because of my fatigue.
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stephanieelise
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 5:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Oh and hang in there!! xx
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jeanb
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 11:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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15 year olds, by far the worse time of life!!!

I have a 15 year old at home right now as well and the fights can be powerful if I allow them to be.  

In order to have control in my own house, my kid does know that he has chores that have to be done.  Since his older brother has recently moved to his own apartment (can you see the big happy dance), DS does all of he dog stuff, cleans the kitchen, does the garbage and helps with chores as required.  I wake him up every morning at 7 when I leave for work. I make him come down and start working while I am still at home. He is also in charge of making dinner when things are not pre prepared.

If he does start with me, I simply take the cords for the electronics to work.   A couple of weeks ago he was in the car with me and disrespectful, so I told him to get out, we were about 4 km from home so he had to run/walk home.  He hasn't been disrespectful since then.  Depending on what is your DD's "thing", I would probably take the computer cord, her books, and perhaps the telephone.  I would put them in the car and have the key with me.  I know it sounds draconian, but once they understand you have authority and power, they will give in eventually.  It took me 4 months with the older son when he turned 15 to turn him around.  

It sounds like your daughter needs something to do with her time other than doing errands with you and her brother.  Why isn't she babysitting every day or why doesn't she go read to seniors who have difficulty reading?  Does she clean you mothers' house or help with groceries?  I don't think many 15 year olds are self motivated, so we as parents need to motivate.  

The 15 year old knows he is required to get a summer job next year once he has his drivers' license. (We live on an acreage so taking transit is not an option this year). He has decided he wants to be an apprentice welder or millwright so he is getting hours in at school this winter.  
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 2:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I woke up this morning at 8:00 AM (ready to go to the bathroom and climb back into bed, since I was up until 1:30 AM) and she walked in the bedroom (ie, she wasn't asleep in her bed.) She literally has not slept the entire night.

Something is WRONG. Some kind of nutritional deficiency or hormonal imbalance or something.

Me getting annoyed at her for not doing chores is a completely separate issue, and one that we can handle ourselves. Boredom may be a contributing factor, but it's not the whole thing. The three of us went for a long walk last night, probably at least 2 miles, and she literally could not fall asleep, even with lying in bed for 3 hours.

Let's see if we can figure out possible physical causes and physical solutions here. This isn't about "bad parenting" or "not setting enough limits." I already got a PM from brinyskysail about zinc and B6 being possible culprits. Does anybody else have other ideas on what deficiencies could cause this?

She's already been to the pediatrician this year, but I still have to take my older daughter for her annual checkup. I could talk to the dr about DD2 while I'm there with DD1, and request lab tests if any are appropriate.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Henriette Bsec
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 2:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
I woke up this morning at 8:00 AM (ready to go to the bathroom and climb back into bed, since I was up until 1:30 AM) and she walked in the bedroom (ie, she wasn't asleep in her bed.) She literally has not slept the entire night.

Something is WRONG. Some kind of nutritional deficiency or hormonal imbalance or something.

Me getting annoyed at her for not doing chores is a completely separate issue, and one that we can handle ourselves. Boredom may be a contributing factor, but it's not the whole thing. The three of us went for a long walk last night, probably at least 2 miles, and she literally could not fall asleep, even with lying in bed for 3 hours.

Let's see if we can figure out possible physical causes and physical solutions here. This isn't about "bad parenting" or "not setting enough limits." I already got a PM from brinyskysail about zinc and B6 being possible culprits. Does anybody else have other ideas on what deficiencies could cause this?

She's already been to the pediatrician this year, but I still have to take my older daughter for her annual checkup. I could talk to the dr about DD2 while I'm there with DD1, and request lab tests if any are appropriate.


I agree Ruth.  
something apart from being 15 is wrong
Overactive thyroid can sometimes give you symptoms like not being able to sleep.

However I do think I would take a good talk with her regarding habbits - when does she start school again ???
Cause when she does she´ll have some structure in her dailylife.




ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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Goldie
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am trusting Ruthiegirl and her caring for ther childrens health..

I am coming back to kids needing change in their life at athat age.. In europe kids start living with families that are near their place of work.. kids learn from such experiences more then just how to get along, but also how to care for their families and do what is expected of them.  They have a great deal more expected responcibilities, .. and then they feel important enough to make sense out of life..

This kid needs some volunteer jobs paid by mom at 1 dollar per hour.. with which she then can buy things to start school with.. No working against mom all summer and expecting gifts to start school to come from MOM.  

A visit by dad for a while might be a good test to compare loving family.. and get the message that mom is best..  

I trust this MOM .. this is the kid own idea of somehow getting even.. When school starts she will get up - I am certain of that.. that will be prof that this is all self inflicted.. time will tell..

IF she went to on over seas trip and returned then she would have to stay up the first few days and then get back to normal.. if the whole wolrd can function like that, so can this 15 year old.. or bring her to her pediatrician.. let her have a talk away from mom.. just to be certain..

Patience!    and stay being good to your self..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Goldie- your advice is  so far from my situation that it just doens't apply. I don't HAVE the money to pay her $1 an hour to do household chores. Nor do I buy her everything she wants for back to school. Each teenager gets $20 a month allowance, and that has to cover all of their clothing (including shoes, coats, underwear, etc) too. It's not really enough, but it's all I can afford right now. They can make do with less (fewer items, shop at thrift stores instead of the mall, etc) or get their own money from jobs or dip into their bank accounts (they got LOTS of gifts for their Bat Mitzvahs at age 12.)

I know she'll  get up for school when school starts, but that's no guarantee that she'll be able to fall asleep at night, or that she won't become ill from extreme sleep deprivation. DD2 really doesn't like her pediatrician, and wouldn't have a "nice frank talk with her without Mom there." If I'm not part of the conversation, she won't bring it up. That already happened a few weeks ago when she was there for her annual checkup. I was thinking of asking the ped to order some lab tests and then dragging DD2 to the lab to have the tests actually done, without making her actually talk to the ped again.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Goldie
Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
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ok that leaves me with another suggestion.. If volunteer work elsewhere is not possible to give her reasons to get up, and if it is not 'will' but maybe 'ill' that leaves a sleep study.. or I might try hypnosis to break through.. I know of a fab person in your neck of the woods.. ..

I will send you a pm..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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stephanieelise
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 2:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Perhaps you could take her to someone who specialises in BTD or GTD ??

Traditional paediatricians did nothing for me and I have only just found help now (at 19.5!)

Why don't you talk to Eric and he might be able to recommend someone ???

I've seen so many people and most of them had absolutely no idea how to help me (or what was wrong with me) !!
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Goldie
Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 10:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
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who Eric?      But - this mom is doing BTD..

As for volunteering.. could she be dissapointed to the point of depression, becasue she can not find a job?  I can see where that is possible, as children feel the overall depression the world is n right now..

I PM you..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!

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Goldie  -  Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 11:50am
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stephanieelise
Thursday, July 28, 2011, 5:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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@ Goldie, Oh i just meant someone who is into alternative/integrative practice ...

All of the 'regular' doctors/specialists I saw were not all that helpful !


I just thought there may be someone (with an open mind) in her area that could help
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nowishow
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L-Theanine reduces muscle tension so you can sleep restfully.†

Passion Flower is a sedative-hypnotic herb that prepares the brain and body for sleep.†

Ashwagandha, a traditional Indian medicinal herb, acts as a sedative and induces relaxation and calming.†

GABA, Glutamine, and Glycine are all inhibitory amino acids (neurotransmitters) that act directly on the limbic system.† Glutamine Glycine

P5’P (B6) is a needed cofactor to activate amino acids.† About P5'P

Sleep Link is your ultimate sleep formula and restorative brain supplement.†

Try Sleep Link if you are awake all night, can't sleep, not sleeping through the night, light sleeper, can't get enough shut eye, wake up during the night, feel drowsy, fall asleep during the day, or have sleeplessness or disturbances in your sleep-wake-cycle, circadian rhythm.


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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Or this link might help http://www.painstresscenter.com/mall/Teenlink.html

Teen Link ® The Teen Stress formula
Teen Link is the only product available specifically formulated for the active teen's brain.
Research documents that teens have a low serotonin level. Serotonin is vital to smooth brain function. Teen Link is the only specific formula that addresses the deficiencies in the active teen’s brain.

Neurotransmitters control brain function. Teen Link is a complete neurotransmitter focus formula that contains 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and Tyrosine and the inhibitory amino acids—GABA, Taurine, and Glutamine plus important cofactors to enhance the neurotransmitters.
Teen Link is natural, safe help for teens.†

Teen Link was formulated by Dr. Billie Sahley specifically for the demanding teen brain.

Teen Link's ingredients include:

5-HTP- elevates serotonin production in the brain. Serotonin is a key neurotransmitter that supports focus, uplifts mood, reduces aggression and the craving for alcohol and carbohydrates.†
Tyrosine - the depression amino acid and the precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine
GABA- the anxiety amino acid†
Glutamine- for concentration and memory†
Taurine- for normal nerve transmission†
B6- a required cofactor needed to activate any amino acid†


"Anxiety is the gap between now and then"

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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  15yo O and sleeping patterns/insomnia

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