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Mind-Body Connection in Bipolar Disorder  This thread currently has 7,629 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Monday, May 30, 2011, 2:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ  -  Monday, May 30, 2011, 10:45pm
To redirect the discussion from the "reality" of bipolar to the article itself
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Lola
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one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Lola  -  Thursday, June 2, 2011, 12:58am
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Sahara
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Yeah feeling bratty, tend to agree.......I was diagnosed with it in my late 29s.  Went on Zoloft after many years off red meat, had a bipolar flip.  I've been more stable doing blood type & do think wheat is a mood disruptor.  

Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry



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Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry


Um...thanks for that wisdom, Lola.  Not.

My husband is bipolar, and I'm telling you that it is NOT a made up disease, but a very difficult, debilitating and challenging one that is very resistant to treatment (bipolar people don't tend to like to comply with anything, so that's added in).

Please don't say that something is "made up" if you haven't experienced it first hand.  That's like saying that alcoholism is a "made up disease".


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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jayneeo
Monday, May 30, 2011, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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or diabetes....
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Monday, May 30, 2011, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry




Bipolar is very real.  I just wonder how much of it is caused by diet and other environmental factors (like toxicity)


There is a good in every bad  

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Quoted Text
don't say that something is "made up" if you haven't experienced it first hand


Quoted Text
Antidepressants, Bipolar Disorder and the Chemical Enslavement of Humankind by Drug Companies

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/022473.html#ixzz1Ns6JI0M6

http://www.naturalnews.com/022473.html


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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While I agree with much in the article, I need to point out that the invention of lithium saved my brother in law (he was able to stay out of the hospital and live a happy life) from the fate of his mother....she suffered enormously from bipolar disorder requiring hospitalization and worse....unfortunately she was born too early to benefit from lithium. Not saying its for everyone....its certainly not for the ups and downs of life, its a chemical imbalance that is insurmountable.......and if it can be fixed without drugs...yay! But if not....
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TJ
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Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry
I don't know if the cause for my disorder is what the pharmaceutical industry thinks it is, but I sure didn't make it up.

Quoted from EquiPro
Um...thanks for that wisdom, Lola.  Not.

My husband is bipolar, and I'm telling you that it is NOT a made up disease, but a very difficult, debilitating and challenging one that is very resistant to treatment (bipolar people don't tend to like to comply with anything, so that's added in).

Please don't say that something is "made up" if you haven't experienced it first hand.  That's like saying that alcoholism is a "made up disease".
For real EP.

Quoted from brinyskysail
Bipolar is very real.  I just wonder how much of it is caused by diet and other environmental factors (like toxicity)
I wasn't diagnosed with bipolar disorder until roughly a year and a half after starting the BTD.  I had recognized the depression side for years but not the hypomania.  I didn't see that I was bipolar, but I had friends who did but wouldn't tell me what they were thinking because they knew I wouldn't listen to them -- and they were right!  One of those friends told me (unprompted) that I was much better since starting the BTD, and that was right when I was diagnosed but hadn't started on the meds yet.

Like I said, I don't know what causes my bipolar disorder, but I'm sure it varies from person to person, and I know that eating right has helped.  Even with the improvements in my diet and other aspects of my lifestyle, I still need medications to stay balanced, stable, and consistently high-functioning.  I hope that I will eventually heal enough that I don't need them any longer, but as little as I like it, that may never happen.

Yes, the pharmaceutical industry is full of unscrupulous players.  Yes, drugs are often too much of a crutch in our society.  Yes, sometimes drugs are ineffective or even dangerous.  But that doesn't make them categorically evil.  Pharmaceutical and natural approaches to wellness are not mutually exclusive.  For me, both are necessary!

Revision History (2 edits)
Lola  -  Thursday, June 2, 2011, 1:00am
TJ  -  Monday, May 30, 2011, 10:53pm
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Lola
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we all have battled or are still battling our individualized wars no doubt


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TJ
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Quoted from Amazone I.
take care with what you're going to identify.....
I know where you're going with this.  Bipolar disorder is what I have, not what I am.  The cause of this problem lies in my body, my flesh, not in the essence of who I am.

Quoted from Lola
Tell me what you think I should do, then.  Should I quit my meds?

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So anyway, let's talk about the article.

Quoted Text
Problems with balance, postural control and other motor control issues are frequently experienced by people with mood and psychiatric disorders such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and neurological disorders such as Huntington's and Parkinson's disease, but research into the connections is scant.

If problems with postural control -- maintaining balance while holding oneself upright -- are a core component of bipolar disorder, as the study indicates, the researchers say it is possible that the motor abnormalities could appear before other symptoms, signaling an increased risk for the disorder.

It raises the question of whether therapies that improve motor symptoms may also help mood disorders, said Amanda R. Bolbecker, lead author of the study "Postural control in bipolar disorder: Increased sway area and decreased dynamical complexity," published last week in the Public Library of Science ONE.
The article really caught my attention because I can relate to the "postural control" problem they describe.  It's nearly impossible for me to stand on one foot with my eyes closed, and my sense of where I am in relation to the things around me is not terribly reliable.  I have to look at the steps when I'm on stairs or I risk tripping or falling!

Quoted Text
The study begins with the understanding that areas of the brain that are critical for motor control, mainly the cerebellum, basal ganglia and brain stem, also aid in mood regulation and are areas where abnormalities often are found in people with bipolar disorder. Postural sway -- a measure of the degree of endless adjustments people make in an attempt to stand still -- is considered a sensitive gauge of motor control that likely is affected by these abnormalities.

In the study, participants who had bipolar disorder displayed more postural sway, particularly when their eyes were closed, than study participants who had no psychological disorders. The troubles, which involved the study participants' proprioception, or ability to process non-visual sensory information related to balance, were not affected by their mood or the severity of their disorder.

"It appears that people with bipolar disorder process sensory information differently and this is seen in their inability to adapt their movement patterns to different conditions, such as eyes open vs. eyes closed or feet together vs. feet apart," said Hong, whose research focuses on how humans control motion. "The different conditions will cause people to use the information their senses provide differently, in order to allow them to maintain their balance."
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I once read something that said studies of twins and first degree relatives suggest that bipolar can be inherited, but for some people, onset occurs after a stressful event.  It would be interesting to know if the "stressful event" people were already predisposed or if the stress was hard enough on the body to alter neurotransmitter function.  I think more attention should be paid to the effects of stress on health.  I know first hand that stress can wreak havoc on the body.  Studying inheritance is also very important.  My grandmother had a psychological disorder.  I don't know if she was ever actually diagnosed with something specific or not, and she died before I was born, but I definitely think it's important to be aware of things like that in family history.  My brother tends toward addiction, which apparently is not a surprise given family history, but no one had ever talked about it so I didn't even know addiction was present in my family's past until my brother started having problems.  It's better to speak out than to try to hide or ignore stuff - sometimes what you don't know can hurt you.


There is a good in every bad  
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I just want to put a beware out here about anyone quitting meds. Please be very careful and do so under a doctor's supervision if that is the path you choose to take. Coming off of some of these things too quickly can have serious consequences. Also please have a plan.

Just putting that out there.

I have also heard that this is one of those sliding scale type issues and has to do with functionality. Turns out a lot of entrepreneurs and creative arts people such as actors have at least mild forms of this. I do wonder about nutritional interventions. I also do think there is potential for overdiagnosis. My husband had a tenant once tell him he was late with his rent because he had to pay for his 3 year old's bipolar medication. He was serious. I question a medication approach especially with a brain still developing.

The doctor I saw discussing magnesium was discussing deficiency in both anxiety and depression.

I also wonder if EMF has anything to do with these things.  

Complex issue.

I have been personally affected by this in my family and with a friend. Sadly both ended in suicide.

Please do what you need to to be loving to yourself. Don't self medicate with drugs, pills, or booze. Keep seeking help and increasing your total wellness until you get where you need to be.

Blessings.  


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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TJ
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Quoted from brinyskysail
I once read something that said studies of twins and first degree relatives suggest that bipolar can be inherited, but for some people, onset occurs after a stressful event.  It would be interesting to know if the "stressful event" people were already predisposed or if the stress was hard enough on the body to alter neurotransmitter function.  I think more attention should be paid to the effects of stress on health.  I know first hand that stress can wreak havoc on the body.

I believe that the genetic predisposition is an important factor.  Perhaps there are some people who are going to develop bipolar disorder no matter what happens, and others will only develop it in response to stressful events.

There's another article I recently read about a study showing that, in children of parents with bipolar disorder, cortisol levels rise higher in response to stress than in other children:

"Our study demonstrates that affected children are biologically more sensitive to the experience of stress in their natural and normal environment compared to unaffected peers," says Ellenbogen. "This higher reactivity to stress might be one explanation of why these offspring end up developing disorders and is a clear risk factor to becoming ill later on."



Quoted from AKArtlover
I just want to put a beware out here about anyone quitting meds. Please be very careful and do so under a doctor's supervision if that is the path you choose to take. Coming off of some of these things too quickly can have serious consequences. Also please have a plan.

I'd like to second that.  I've never been suicidal or truly manic (only hypomanic), so quitting meds isn't disastrous for me... but it is for others who have a worse case of it than I do.  I've tried quitting several times, either one or both of my meds, and each time it has only set me back.  Sure, I could survive without my meds, but the quality of my life would be much worse.

It is interesting to note: whenever I make a significant gain in my health (for example, when I gave up cereal grains), I immediately start thinking it would be a good idea to try getting off meds again.  I've finally recognized this pattern.  In the future, any plans to try weaning off medication will only go into effect after I've had a couple of weeks to sit on it and make sure the idea still seems like a good idea after "cooling off".  I suspect than anyone with bipolar disorder is susceptible to this this of thinking.
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Lola
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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Quoted from Lola
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVZGlsGG9A
worth listening to and  building your own facts

Quoted from Lola


Have you even read the article?  Just in case you haven't, it has NOTHING to do with drugs of ANY KIND.
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I'm just too stubborn to go on anything, afraid of weight gain or unpleasant side effects.  Plus I'm doing better with a boring lifestyle, will live this way in Albuquerque the rest of my life & happy.  Plus I'm doing bioidentical hormones, I don't have the patience to add much of anything else other than vitamins at the moment.
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My bf's mother had bipolar, she just passed away in March of this year.  She had it bad, but she was on lithium and it did seem to help as long as she stayed on it (that was an ongoing battle).  She had many break downs and was put in the psych ward many times, it was not an easy life for her or for her family in fact it was the main reason for his parents divorce.  My bf has many childhood scars from what he went through with his mother.  I don't think anybody really understands what others go through unless they go through it themselves.  My friend started getting depressed soon after high school, although i was empathetic i never really understood until i got depression.  People used to think that taking me to a funny movie would makes things all better, i only wish it was that easy!.  Unfortunately i've had depression for over 10 years now, although i know it's not close to being as bad as bi-polar i can't imagine people saying it's my imagination.  I'm very against medication, but i have to take it to function and believe me i have tried going off of it.  I went off of it once because i couldn't get me med's due to financial reasons, it was a real bad idea thinking i could do it myself.  I got what i call brain zaps and got to the point that i would cry all day, i was like a zombie.  With the help of a friend i tried the natural stuff, but i didn't work.  I still struggle with the fact that i have to take medication for it, but i know how i'll get if i don't take it and i don't want to go back there again!.


"Let food be thy medicine"

Dr. D has said many times that it's not about what you don't eat but what you do eat that makes the difference.  "Quoted by Jane"
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Does anyone know if it is related to the hypothalmus?


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Mickey I was touched by your story cuz I know how t was for my DH with his mom and brother and I appreciated your own testimony too. thanks for sharing...youve learned thru experience...
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Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry


Lola, I find it indefensible that you keep trying to defend your earlier position.  I have known and know people with bipolar disorder.  I have seen the havock it wreaks on people's families and personal lives.  

Most people get diagnosed in their early to late teens.  Having two kids, ages 23 and 20, I have seen a few of their friends change before my eyes.  This is not something made up by the big pharma companies.

I think you owe TJ and the other members of the forum an apology.  As an administrator, if this is what you truly believe, you should keep your opinions to yourself.  I am not bipolar but I am deeply offended.



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TJ and Mickey,
Thank you both for being brave to share with us what you are going through.  I have a cousin with schizophrenia who has had a tough life and has needed med's that continually have to be adjusted.  I take my hat off to both of you for taking care of yourselves and being so open about a subject most people shy away from.
I have another relative who I think may have hypomania or something like that. She was in a situation where she was taken against her will to a hospital and given a sedative because she had apparently become out of control in a public office.  She does not believe there is anything wrong with her, she does have lots of health issues which I suspect contribute.  It would be so nice if she would listen to someone like yourselves.  Again thanks for boldly going where many won't go!
And I wish you both lots of good healing.
Lin


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Sahara
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Tom Cruise & the Scientologists think it's a bogus disease also.  I'm not sure what to think really.  At times the diagnosis seems true, other times I think I'm just fine.  
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Quoted from AKArtlover
Does anyone know if it is related to the hypothalmus?
I hadn't even considered it.  I just did a bit of quick reading on the hypothalamus, and I didn't pick up on a connection, but perhaps you know something that I don't.  Please share!

Quoted from 14442
I'm not sure what to think really.  At times the diagnosis seems true, other times I think I'm just fine.  
Sometimes I wonder, too.  Mostly, it happens when I'm up, and I'm getting better at resisting the temptation to act on ideas that come along during those times but that I don't get when I'm level or down.
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Quoted from 14442
Tom Cruise & the Scientologists think it's a bogus disease also.  I'm not sure what to think really.  At times the diagnosis seems true, other times I think I'm just fine.  

I am certain that there are times when it will affect the patient more or less.  Foods and toxin levels in the body can certainly play a part in mental health as with any other organ or body system.


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Patty H..... and vice versa!!! Sorry but in your country it is guaranted that everybody shall be able to communicate her/his opinion.....but freely...  so Lola did and even this isn't interfering with her status as  one of the leaders of those boards!!!

No, perhaps should we all become muchmore aware where and how WE are all became manageable, influencable etc by big pharma, and allopathic medicine!!!
We all have to become muchmore aware about our own patterns, educational issues, so called domestication as Don Miguel Ruiz is mentioning it ....

We, the explorers depend onto complementary medicine coz of our enzymatic lacks....
here the problem to huge interactions also of psychosomatic chores and vice versa are given.... those themata weren't discussed till now on all of those boards...!!!
but only have been accepted as: true issues of allopathic involvements and diagnoses ....= MD-agreements...  hey....did you ever suspected that those are wrong....have you ever treated people/patients with orthomolecular stuffs and phytos did you made this experience and have you constated that those treatments are muchmore powerful and less dependable onto any kind of stuffs....

And then please become aware that nearly none of the whitecoated of allopathic treatments even are able to understand our lifestyle.... why... coz none of them got any education in their own structure of medical issues... justamente take notice of this!!! We're talking two different languages...!!!

will tell you a little story... yesterday I've lost one of my oldest B-patients
diagnosed by MD's with ALS... I rechecked her and saw that our beloved Dr. D. as usual was right... she was merely shot down by allopathic meds whithin shortest time..... meant here is...from January 2011 to May 2011... and then be aware she's
and explomade as I am.. but she wasn't aware about this....

We all must become muchmore aware about certain circumstances... and even if we don't want to agree, go and see beyond systems.... if not you're going to send people  to death as my B-patient was!!!

btw..Lola recited the so called health ranger....M.Adams.. .and must tell you... he isn't
that bad/nor wrong  as it seems... ... but envirenments seems to be....
..stop lieying into your own pockets.. !!!

perhaps Prof. Dr. Bruce Lipton might be the reply of all your ... as well..... ...& or even the teachings of Dr. Deepak Chopra...Dr. Jean Klein ... and Dr. Peter D'Adamo,Prof.Dr. Dan Burke and my beloved old teacher Prof.Dr. G.Uhlenbruck...
but here the difference is... all of them really don't care to be acknowledged by
pueblos....


I apologize for my bad english ....


MIfHI K-174
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I was once misdiagnosed with bipolar, when I had clinical depression. I was hospitalized (which was appropirate at the time) and then put on 4 or 5 medications.  I  definitely needed one med, possibly two, but I certainly didn't need to be on two antidepressants plus two mood stablizers and then a 5th med to control the side effects from one of the mood stablizers.

I don't doubt that bipolar is over-diagnosed, or that many individuals are over-medicated. Some of the overmedicated people need to  be on less medicine, others may not need medicine at all. But that doesnt' change the fact that bipolar is REAL, and that the right medication can truly "give somebody their life back" when the meds are used appropriately.

I'm very glad that Prozac was available to me when I needed it. Without it (and without knowledge of BTD, which was unavailable to me at those times) I honestly don't know if I could have retained custody of my children. Don't anybody dare tell me that clinical depression isn't "real." Yes, it's now being controlled and prevented via diet, supplements ,and exercise- but that doesn't mean that it was a "fake mental illness" when I didn't know to avoid wheat or dairy.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Goldie
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Quoted Text
My bf's mother had bipolar, she just passed away in March of this year.  She had it bad, but she was on lithium and it did seem to help as long as she stayed on it (that was an ongoing battle).  She had many break downs and was put in the psych ward many times, it was not an easy life for her or for her family in fact it was the main reason for his parents divorce.  My bf has many childhood scars from what he went through with his mother.  I don't think anybody really understands what others go through unless they go through it themselves.  My friend started getting depressed soon after high school, although i was empathetic i never really understood until i got depression.  People used to think that taking me to a funny movie would makes things all better, i only wish it was that easy!.  Unfortunately i've had depression for over 10 years now, although i know it's not close to being as bad as bi-polar i can't imagine people saying it's my imagination.  I'm very against medication, but i have to take it to function and believe me i have tried going off of it.  I went off of it once because i couldn't get me med's due to financial reasons, it was a real bad idea thinking i could do it myself.  I got what i call brain zaps and got to the point that i would cry all day, i was like a zombie.  With the help of a friend i tried the natural stuff, but i didn't work.  I still struggle with the fact that i have to take medication for it, but i know how i'll get if i don't take it and i don't want to go back there again!.


YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON ALL POINTS!!!!!!!

when powers to be learn that food could be 80% of mental issues-  then it will become easier for mental patients to accnowledge their situations..

people that have found some connection with food will do much better then the others.. (the other 20% requires meds.. and all sort of other things as well ..

just like a brocken arm.. diet alone will not fix it... diet alone might prevent another break.. but in the interim one needs a cast put on, to provide some healing and stability.. nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with meds.. the only thing wrong is to think it's either or.. flexibility is key.. compassion to never give up is another ..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Amazone I.
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 7:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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omen



                                    


MIfHI K-174
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Patty H
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 9:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Amazone I.
Patty H..... and vice versa!!! Sorry but in your country it is guaranted that everybody shall be able to communicate her/his opinion.....but freely...  so Lola did and even this isn't interfering with her status as  one of the leaders of those boards!!!

No, perhaps should we all become muchmore aware where and how WE are all became manageable, influencable etc by big pharma, and allopathic medicine!!!
We all have to become muchmore aware about our own patterns, educational issues, so called domestication as Don Miguel Ruiz is mentioning it ....

We, the explorers depend onto complementary medicine coz of our enzymatic lacks....
here the problem to huge interactions also of psychosomatic chores and vice versa are given.... those themata weren't discussed till now on all of those boards...!!!
but only have been accepted as: true issues of allopathic involvements and diagnoses ....= MD-agreements...  hey....did you ever suspected that those are wrong....have you ever treated people/patients with orthomolecular stuffs and phytos did you made this experience and have you constated that those treatments are muchmore powerful and less dependable onto any kind of stuffs....

And then please become aware that nearly none of the whitecoated of allopathic treatments even are able to understand our lifestyle.... why... coz none of them got any education in their own structure of medical issues... justamente take notice of this!!! We're talking two different languages...!!!

will tell you a little story... yesterday I've lost one of my oldest B-patients
diagnosed by MD's with ALS... I rechecked her and saw that our beloved Dr. D. as usual was right... she was merely shot down by allopathic meds whithin shortest time..... meant here is...from January 2011 to May 2011... and then be aware she's
and explomade as I am.. but she wasn't aware about this....

We all must become muchmore aware about certain circumstances... and even if we don't want to agree, go and see beyond systems.... if not you're going to send people  to death as my B-patient was!!!

btw..Lola recited the so called health ranger....M.Adams.. .and must tell you... he isn't
that bad/nor wrong  as it seems... ... but envirenments seems to be....
..stop lieying into your own pockets.. !!!

perhaps Prof. Dr. Bruce Lipton might be the reply of all your ... as well..... ...& or even the teachings of Dr. Deepak Chopra...Dr. Jean Klein ... and Dr. Peter D'Adamo,Prof.Dr. Dan Burke and my beloved old teacher Prof.Dr. G.Uhlenbruck...
but here the difference is... all of them really don't care to be acknowledged by
pueblos....


I apologize for my bad english ....


I'm sorry, Amazone I.  I don't understand a lot of what you are saying.   I will say that I don't think this is an issue of allopathic medicine vs. natural health medicine.  Isn't this diet and way of life all about our individuality?  Can those of us on the forum not take prescription medication without being told we are just feeding the pharmacuetical companies?  Does allopathic medicine have no place here on this forum?  Can this diet really cure everything from mental illness to heart disease to diabetes to cancer?

I will still defend my position, however, that an administrator on this forum should be careful with blanket statements like Lola made concerning bipolar disorder.  Isn't the goal of this forum to help and support one another?  Didn't we learn from our parents, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all?  Lola is a highly respected administrator on this forum.  I would assume her goal is to help people.  How did her statement help?  It did not.  It actually hurt people.  

I have known enough people, both in my own family, friends, my friends' children and my childrens' friends who SUFFER with bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia, etc.  Do I think it would be helpful telling them that their issues are all in the head and that it is just something made up for the pharmacuetical companies to make money?  I don't think so.  My role as their family member and friend is to lend support, understanding, compassion and empathy.  My role is to support their own individual path to health and wellness.  I believe that those in authority on this forum have that same responsibility.

I saw none of those attributes in Lola's post and I think that ALL of us need to be careful that our opinions don't hurt others.  That is MY humble opinion.


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TJ
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 10:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Our nay-sayers still haven't made recommendation for a viable, effective, alternative short-term treatment or management strategy for bipolar disorder.  Vitamins, minerals, and amino acids are not going to cut it.  Perhaps those things can help over the course of many years, but there's no guarantee of a cure.  In the meantime, I have a life to live NOW.  I can't justify going for months or even years without meds, especially knowing how that affects me.  NOTHING ELSE is as effective at managing my disorder than medication, and it's managing it now.  Unlike these other routes that have been suggested, I don't have to just keep taking my meds in the hope that someday they will fix me...a someday that may never come.

Right now, eating right, taking certain supplements, stress management, and medication works for me.  If I don't choose to do for myself what works, I could easily find that my ability to choose my course of action and treatment is taken away.  You can be sure that I won't be eating compliantly if I get hospitalized.

I believe in the power of the body to heal itself.  I have seen it happen to me in ways I never thought possible over the last 3 1/2 years!  But there is a limit to what the body can do for itself.  When the body tries to heal itself, what it's essentially trying to do it put things back the way they are "supposed" to be: to conform with the original plan/blueprint.  However, sometimes the blueprint is wrong.  There are some defects that arise out of that incorrect blueprint, and those cannot EVER be corrected simply by eating right, meditating, yoga, energetic healing, supplements, or any other alternative therapy.  Consider these conditions, for example:
  • clubbed foot
  • missing limbs
  • chromosomal problems (like Down syndrome)
  • hole in the heart wall (I have a friend who just went through surgery to repair this)
  • cleft palate
  • hereditary fructose intolerance
  • phenylketonuria
  • various SNP-related enzyme deficiencies (as Amazone referred to)
There is overwhelming evidence that mental illness is hereditary, and I believe that to some degree, mental illness belongs in this list.  Perhaps, in the future, epigenetics will advance far enough to prevent mental illness traits from manifesting, but for those of us who are dealing with them right now, we've either got to take what works and use it, or surrender our freedom of choice to others, who will try what they think will work on us.

Quoted from Amazone I.
Patty H..... and vice versa!!! Sorry but in your country it is guaranted that everybody shall be able to communicate her/his opinion.....but freely...  so Lola did and even this isn't interfering with her status as  one of the leaders of those boards!!!
Just because you have the right to say it, doesn't mean you should say it.

Quoted from Patty H
I have known enough people, both in my own family, friends, my friends' children and my childrens' friends who SUFFER with bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia, etc.  Do I think it would be helpful telling them that their issues are all in the head and that it is just something made up for the pharmacuetical companies to make money?  I don't think so.
Before finding the BTD, I repeatedly got the "it's all in your head" line (sometimes more subtly than others) from doctors and even one therapist.  I couldn't prove it, but I knew it wasn't.  I didn't need someone to tell me I was crazy or lazy or looking for attention and sympathy.  I didn't need an arrogant, close-minded bigot claiming there was nothing wrong with me on the grounds that what seemed to be wrong with me was outside of the the experience of the aforementioned bigot.  All I needed and wanted someone who was willing to help me figure out what the h*ll was wrong with me!

One of the things I value about this forum is that people are (usually) willing to take what you say at face value, and to at least be supportive even if they don't have any helpful advice to offer.  It really irritates me that you (Lola) would basically tell me the same thing that those doctors and therapist said, and in the context of this forum where people come to find support from other open-minded and sensitive individuals.  It also irritates me that you would bring up the pharmaceutical industry in this discussion when the article clearly had nothing to do with medications.  This article is, in fact, about a "mind-body" approach to bipolar disorder.
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Joy
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've read this post with interest.  I do not have bi-polar disorder but I do have ADD and that has been a "debatable disorder" among the experts.

This forum is about individuality.  One size does not fit all.  How many times have we heard that and also revel in it.  I've learned many things over time from people who are of a different blood type than mine.  

Everyone has the right on this forum to "agree to disagree on any subject".  There is so much information out there some times it is difficult to discern and act upon.  We are all learning as we go.  

I feel that we can all be thankful for the BTD forums as it is definitely part of the equation.

Let me just leave it at this.  

There are approximately 2,400 people registered on this forum.  How many times are you going to get people to agree on everything?   Or anything?

And so it goes.

Joy
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brinyskysail
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Before finding the BTD, I repeatedly got the "it's all in your head" line (sometimes more subtly than others) from doctors and even one therapist.  I couldn't prove it, but I knew it wasn't.  I didn't need someone to tell me I was crazy or lazy or looking for attention and sympathy.  I didn't need an arrogant, close-minded bigot claiming there was nothing wrong with me on the grounds that what seemed to be wrong with me was outside of the the experience of the aforementioned bigot.  All I needed and wanted someone who was willing to help me figure out what the h*ll was wrong with me!


I do not have bipolar, but as a result of the problems I do have this is the biggest thing I have learned, and I have a totally new appreciation and level of empathy for people who are kicked to the curb by doctors (or even friends and family).  I said "empathy", not "sympathy".  While no one with health problems (physical or mental) needs to be told it's "all in their head", they also do not need to be treated as if they need to be put in a bubble; it can go too far in either direction.

We all just need to be curtious to each other.  Whether we understand someone else's problem or not, we should at least accept that the problem is real.  Even in cases when it really is something just in the person's head, it still exists for that person, and that needs to be considered when choosing what to say to that person.


There is a good in every bad  
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think we can all agree that "one size fits all" diets don't work. And that Dr. D'Adamo is awesome.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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TJ
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from brinyskysail
Even in cases when it really is something just in the person's head, it still exists for that person, and that needs to be considered when choosing what to say to that person.
Quoted from ruthiegirl
I think we can all agree that "one size fits all" diets don't work. And that Dr. D'Adamo is awesome.
Indeed!
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TJ
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Does anyone have any thoughts on how bipolar disorder could be related to postural control?
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 11:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe both problems (postural control and bipolar disorder) are related to malfunction in the same part of the brain, or a very close part of the brain.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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belleinblue
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 12:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
one more term made up by the pharmaceutical industry


I spent four years trying to get my bipolar under control through diet, exercise and "natural" medicine, and only some medicine and a massive amount of therapy has done anything about it. Following BTD and taking care of yourself can be beneficial in many ways, but I've always seen it as a few pieces of the puzzle rather than the whole darn thing. Just because I take care of myself doesn't mean that I'm not susceptible to a mental disorder, and if my health isn't perfect it doesn't mean that I just need to take more supplements or eat more pineapple. Sometimes, a moderate dose of a medication really does help. I still struggle once in a while, but I'm finally able to find the balance that keeps me relatively safe and happy.

Yes, we are an overmedicated society. Yes, doctors sometimes jump to conclusions. But it shocks me that someone so interested in the health of others would belittle such a serious--and potentially life-threatening--disease.

Revision History (1 edits)
Lola  -  Thursday, June 2, 2011, 12:56am
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AKArtlover
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 1:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Does anyone have any thoughts on how bipolar disorder could be related to postural control?


This question and the original article makes me wonder if cranial sacral could be of use. I was surprised by how much chiropractic changed a lot in me. Kicked what I thought was SAD in one adjustment, but also realized I had had blue times throughout growing up around teenage and college. Never after that. Seems like part of this was in my neck.

The cranial sacral was something different. Only had one treatment and it was lovely. I felt like I could breath fully for the first time.

Wonder if some of this may have to do with birth trauma issues to the spine and/or brain and the body struggling to compensate.

I certainly know my balance and and coordination improved, eyes open or closed.  



"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 3:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Joy
I've read this post with interest.  I do not have bi-polar disorder but I do have ADD and that has been a "debatable disorder" among the experts.


Hi Joy,
I saw this doctor on a tv show I think is very good not too long ago. She had a lot of success with her patients with ADHD, ADD, and depression. She was discussing magnesium deficiency specifically. Very interesting.
http://www.amazon.com/More-ADHD-Dr-Mary-Block/dp/0966554531/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top



"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Goldie
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 5:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I was told I needed to see a shrink or make a baby// for my real and severe pain in my belly.. what saved me then was that I KNEW what I NEEDED.. for me it was a new Doctor who cured the belly over night..

and I KNEW that meat was not hurting me, ever, not mayo either, --but milk kills my spirit..

Then  I had years of severe neck pain from a whiplash injurie, nothing took my pain away, until I found accupuncture.. that was  so good that I could just about do without the many over the counter pills I took.. 6 weeks later  I started to fall asleep while driving TO work.. on hour later on my way home, I had to stop on the side of the road, and take a nap.. I went into therapy with CO- COUNCELING.. I visited with Doctors and Psychology.. all had no clue what was going on.. what saved me was that I KNEW I was mentallly OK, but something had me spinning..

when I finally realized that I stopped taking the pills with much caffeine in it.. stopped them nearly over night, I knew that was the problem.. I dealt with that by reintroducing just enough caffeine to keep misery away.. I was fine in a few days..

I had a peeling finger and a doctor treated it with x-rays.. for a long time.. then I figured out that he was on the wrong track.. I knew that x-rays was not helping.. so I went to a new old fashion skin doctor with years of experince and he gave me a vaseline based col tar cream.. peeling stoped over night.. I KNEW enough to question the 'up to date' treatment.. I learned that old meds are safer..

when I read about low carb, it made all the sense.. when I stopped sugar in my food, I felt blue feelings going away.. I KNEW when I read about low carb or white foods,  that is was not for ME...

when I ate Pritikin grains everywhere I got ill and when I found Dr D I came home.. feeling well.

I have taken meds for a year at a time when I needed it.. and I have done all alternatives, thousands of dollars worth.. some helped some did not.. I also juiced and was ok with that but only BTD stopped me from having to go from Doc to Doc for answers..

NOW I KNOW what is possible.. food alone NO.. but food in support of whatever else YES indeed.. and I am hoping that yeasr from now I will be able to reduce some meds.. or they come up with better ones.. until then I TRUST WHAT I KNOW!!!  

YES TJ.. trust what you know.. check if you are right and then do what is right .. even if we make mistakes.. WE are responsible to help our body no matter where help is cvoming from.. (within reasons) and with on open mind going to and from -either way..

Going off meds can be a disater.. staying on them also, but when you find something that works.. then please stay on the meds and the foods and the supps.. in time you will know which is needed and how much.. and maybe even get off some.. but only with the upper most of care.. checking and double checking..  that is how I got betterand  well until I cheat with wrong foods....

Hopefully you will get and stay well too.. time helps and sometimes too much time is spent defending one self.. then it's time to TRUST what you KNOW,

all the best..  

good luck to you!!
  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Joy
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 6:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Over time I've bought and read several books about ADD.  Luckily I had no hyperactivity.

I will take a look at that book you recommended, AKArtlover.  Thanks for the info.


Joy
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TJ
Thursday, June 2, 2011, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Age: 39
Quoted from AKArtlover
This question and the original article makes me wonder if cranial sacral could be of use. I was surprised by how much chiropractic changed a lot in me. Kicked what I thought was SAD in one adjustment, but also realized I had had blue times throughout growing up around teenage and college. Never after that. Seems like part of this was in my neck.

The cranial sacral was something different. Only had one treatment and it was lovely. I felt like I could breath fully for the first time.

Wonder if some of this may have to do with birth trauma issues to the spine and/or brain and the body struggling to compensate.

I certainly know my balance and and coordination improved, eyes open or closed.  
I really need to get me some of that!

Quoted from Goldie
YES TJ.. trust what you know.. check if you are right and then do what is right .. even if we make mistakes.. WE are responsible to help our body no matter where help is cvoming from.. (within reasons) and with on open mind going to and from -either way..

Going off meds can be a disater.. staying on them also, but when you find something that works.. then please stay on the meds and the foods and the supps.. in time you will know which is needed and how much.. and maybe even get off some.. but only with the upper most of care.. checking and double checking..  that is how I got betterand  well until I cheat with wrong foods....
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Goldie.  I truly do hope that the time will come when I will no longer need medication for my condition.  Prozac is hard on the liver.  Lamictal is hard on liver, kidneys, folate metabolism, and is very expensive to boot.
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brinyskysail
Friday, June 3, 2011, 12:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I've discovered over time that omega 3 and 6 REALLY affect my mental health, and I just read this
Quoted Text
A study in the Archives of Psychology indicated that bipolar patients on a high omega-3 fat diet remained symptom-less longer than those on conventional diets

also
Quoted Text
One study found that eating more omega-3 fats actually boosted the levels of serotonin, known to fight depression, and made brain cell membranes more effective.

A study at the Centre for Mental Health Research in Australia found that high levels of omega-6 fats coupled with low levels of omega-3 fats led to more severe depression.


http://webcache.googleusercont.....ource=www.google.com


There is a good in every bad  
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Amazone I.
Friday, June 3, 2011, 10:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yup, you are all right with your staements and really it wasn't meant to offend or anything similar!

My experience here is something complete different and yup... have an eye onto what kind of agreement you're going for, of course the diet and lifestyle and supps are very important for improvements.... and nope allopathic treatments are ok as well for those who can have them....I only fight radically against a sort of *taking a pill will solve the solution*... tha's it what I don't think is the right way to move further ....c'est tous....

Our body is a temple and we've to take care about it....and also better to make your own opinions and listen to your inner voice what is ok for you and what is not... will tell you a little anecdote....some weeks ago a doc told me to take out my uterus & all the rest of my female issues.... I was shocked... and asked why....
he told me that I've 2 cysts and a myom so far so well... I was impressed by his statement but my belly told me, no don't go for this ther's another solution.....
Ok since a while I use a treatment and yup this week, docy told me...all shrinked.... and no op needed...   you see... whithin weeks things may change but I was soo upset that this man acts out of his own view  without taking any notice of my own wishes and needs... this is another proof for me how those are working and sorry... I'm not a gadget, ready to get cut into pieces........

But my treatment concists on top to work with L.Hays booklet, power tube and some supps as well  .... and yup... sorry but it did work for me.... you are you and other's are different...we've all to find out...*the key to our psyche patterns *
and then turn the page.... this is one of the hardest to change your trained patterns...  but it's doable....


MIfHI K-174
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Goldie
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I agree in a small part with every interpretation of what was said on what we can do.. YET:

When I was young I was told that anything I envisioned or wished for and worked for I could get.. NOT SO.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT SO>>>  

THAT IS one of the biggest dillusions around.  

NOT so! SCREAMINGLY not so!.. By 'promisisng' such believe systems we are trained to be followers of other people experiences..

I am now older and I am no longer believing all the fairy tales of my youth.  

I think honesty is much more important then dream building.  Dreams will come true if they are ment to come true, but there is less then a 1 % certainty.  Saying otherwise is setting up young and old people for failure that has nothing to do with them, but the GUILT will linger for decades.

TRUTH is not the same as honesty..  Honesty is saying that:  YES,  you can strive for ANYTHING you want.. no doubt about that, TRUTH is: life may throw you curveballs that will derail your good intentions.  

Same with some peoples constitutions.. Mental illness is no jocke.. those who have it suffer greatly.  and no other person has ANY idea how much suffering it causes from birth to the end of life.  To denegrate the effects of any illness is just plain cruel.  

Diet alone will not fix menatl malformations... I like that word a little better then illness.. but only semantically..

Diet alone will not fix all BRAINS and what worked for one will not work for the other..  some mental malfuctions have been helped by all sorts of things.. food, love, tough love, compassion, and learned knowledge and drugs..

What I liked about the idea that there are other ways to look at cause and effect. Like leaving the possibilities wide open all around....

Bi-polar is a incideous affliction that some people experience... it is so little understood and even less seldom understood during the formative years.  Much damage is done by no one figuring out what is the matter witht the child to beginn with, and then finding solutions.

MIND OVER MATTER as is sometimes touted as effective, simply MIGHT not work, no matter how hard one BELIEVES.. I think listening to those who would tout this or that BELIEVE in this or that is not only damaging but dismisses the tragedy of illness.

I will use my own experience as a point of explamnation on how important understanding is.

I had belly pain for 32 YEARS..  I suffered discomfort from birth.. Mom told me that I had been ill the first night of my life.. then survived despite a weight loss of 4 pounds over night and 2 doctors visits to our house.

Then I was never allowing anyone to carry me after I ate.. that is true even today.. I do not like to move right after I eat... actually I like to go horizontal..

I went to all sorts of doctors.. I did all I knew that might work to get rid of belly pain -all to no results.. I seldom drank milk, I did not like it, I ate other things like grains and meat things and fruits and veggies.. no clues to why the pain.. YET I had it every day!

NOW liken that to a child who is experincing his life differently then I did.  This child might be functioning normal in any way but ONE:  he runs into the street without concern.. mom runns after him and scolds him from the top of her anxiety level voice and he looks at her stunned...  IT TOOK 4 years to figure out that the child was near deaf.. mom, dad, 2 grandmas and pediatricians, all overlooked this symple factor.. he could only hear SCREAMING.. !  He could not hear oncoming traffic, nor his moms murmerings about not going into the street.. he was oblivious to so many instructions.. in fact the only way he learned anything was, not through hearing, but through the facial expression of his mother and others around him.. a cruel tragedy of a malfunction..

For me all the believe in my own ability to overcome my belly pain - would have been useless and totally immaterial to the reality of my life.. UNTIL: I found that dairy was MY cause of endless misery.

So, would I have made cancer cells grow in me? I don't know? would intestinal expolratory surgery have helped- NOT!  Would climbing a mountain have helped? NO certainly deep sea diving would not have either.. NOR would MAKING A BABY as was suggested.. that was the last stroh ..I fired my doctor who thought he was so educated and so intelligent.. even 40 years later I am still rancored.. (immagine such a baby).. but by now I have forgiven him, since he JUST did not know!! .... YES, I MADE SURE to tell him that 'knowledge' cured me? a single doctor visit some other place and all was well with me..

NO antidepressent, nor anty convulsive drugs would have helped, no valiums and no aspirin would have helped.. so yes, allowpathics did not work.. just being a doctor - even highly specialized in internal medicine was not enough.. what was needed was a doctor who through his own experince learned that some of us just can't tolerate dairy.. thats all === THAT NEW DOCTOR gave me a life I would never had otherwise..

So, yes question a doctor, but if you are deemed bi-polar then meds are needed, a good evaluation of your self is needed, meds are needed- or not.. but one thing is certain -- it is a struggle to know what is what, when and why..

AND therein I am saying trust some of what you know.. then for 3 tries TRUST some others.. like doctors, but always make judgements... YES communicate your thoughts with doctors or here.. but never feel guilty for questioning any DECREE!!  meds need adjustments, sometimes they work, other times they don't .. IN THE END we all can only do the best we KNOW about.

NOW : having said all that I certainly would read all the books by Adelle Davis, and study them if it is in your mental ability to be objective and fair.. her books by now are old, but some of her findings on menatl conditions where interesting.. especially the ones with fat food invloved.  Eat right I remember one of her titles, a great book even today.. with adjustments to new findings.. but she was a trailblazer like no other.. !

Without believe that we will learn, there would be no Science.. IT all works together ..even dreams ..  and there-in are all possibilities!  YET the self as WE experince always must come first!
  

Thread:    Article: Anorexia Might Be a Disease Like Diabetes ............   I would look at that thread as well.. it has possibilities for all sorts of issues.. mental or not..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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AKArtlover
Friday, June 3, 2011, 1:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I think one of the DVD's or YouTube videos my husband is going to work on is going to be on how to find a great chiropractor.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Amazone I.
Friday, June 3, 2011, 9:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Goldie... great testimonial   


MIfHI K-174
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Patty H
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Ee Dan
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I agree, Goldie!  Thanks for sharing that.  


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honeybee
Friday, June 3, 2011, 10:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

INTJ
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Quoted from TJ
Does anyone have any thoughts on how bipolar disorder could be related to postural control?


Has everyone reading this attempted to stand on one leg, eyes closed?

It is really quite difficult - 3 out of 3 people I asked could not really do it. Certainly not elegantly!
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TJ
Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from honeybee
Has everyone reading this attempted to stand on one leg, eyes closed?

It is really quite difficult - 3 out of 3 people I asked could not really do it. Certainly not elegantly!
Maybe they all have bipolar disorder...
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AKArtlover
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 1:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
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I just improved it on two attempts. Looks like I healed myself! lol. You know I'm messing. It seems that it was more difficult with eyes closed, but it was really mainly a weight balance thing and adjusting my leg position helped.

That was fun honeybee.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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TJ
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 2:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I have a hard enough time standing on both feet when my eyes are closed.
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TJ
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 2:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Or, heaven help me, if should I be walking along and decide to look up or over my shoulder.
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Symbi
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 2:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No doubt it is a real condition, there have been malancholic moody types since way back.  Artistic types are often bipolar (artistic temperament) have been documented in popular books and plays since the Greeks.  It has been around much longer than medications.  Medical knowledge of the brain is in its infancy.  Acknowledging it's a real condition doesn't mean you have to embrace the current medical treatments.

I love the idea, instead of monitoring moods or seeing how you react to medications (often diagnosed after you get manic on antidepressants) they could check your postural control to see how certain parts of your brain are working - now that's thinkin'!

Didn't have time to read the whole thread.  Being open minded types, open to nutrition and vitamins, thought you may be interested in these theories mainstays of orthomolecular psychology.  No doubt there are changes to the brain made by mental conditions but diet and supplements can help:
  • pyroluria low levels of zinc, B6 and arachidonic acid (an omega-6 fat) (aka porphyria - real medical condition I suspect nonnies prone to it, one cause stress or heavy metal toxicity),
  • histapenia Depressed folate, B3, B12 and excess copper (lack of histamine - histamine is increased by folate),
  • histadelia Depressed calcium, methionine, B6 and excess folic acid (recognised medical condition histaminosis due to lack of copper containing DAO enzyme to break down histamine in gut and brain)
  • as well as allergies, hypoglycemia, metal toxicities and more

Here's a summary chart: http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?condition=Schizophrenia .  Lots of, sometimes dodgy information around the net talking about over and under methylation - that is one explanation but may not be all of it (DAO for instance).

Do you know that antidepressant effect was discovered as a side effect of anti-histamines?  They noticed they helped depression and then had to figure out why after that.  Having too much histamine decreases neurotransmitter release.  During an allergic reaction histamine is released.  How many mental problems are caused by allergies?  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism

Revision History (1 edits)
Symbi  -  Saturday, June 4, 2011, 3:24am
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Symbi
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I think bipolars switch from histapenia (low histamine) to histadelia (high histamine).  I do, though they have classified me borderline - more when I was younger.  It helps to have awareness and know which supplements and foods to eat.  I get really angry, restless and feel more pain (histadelia - common in fibromyalgia and autoimmune conditions) if I have systemic inflammation or if I eat leftovers more than 24 hours old, especially meat or fermented food - which makes histamines over time!  

Some foods and additives release histamines (if there are some stored) (egg whites, shellfish, strawberries, tomatoes, fish, chocolate, pineapple and alcohol).  Notice those foods are the common allergen foods?  It's important to me when my oral lichen planus (chronic condition increases mast cells) is bad and I know I must avoid those foods (add msg from tamari to the mix).  Histamine hurts and inflames my mouth!  One idea of a low histamine diet: http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/lowhistamine.htm

Note the explorer diet is low in amines.  Perhaps it's to do with acetylation again.  Slow acetylators (most explorers) can't break down amines as well.  We are prone to dna damage leading to bladder cancer if exposed to aromatic amines.  So we probably have trouble breaking down histamine as well.

Note that omega 3 is not good for all kinds of depression.  If you have pyroluria you need more GLA (a good omega 6) because your body doesn't make enough zinc containing Delta-6-saturase to convert from lower omega 6s. The GLA also helps PMS symptoms.  I've gone from 2/4 weeks breast tenderness and bloating to fine!  Also been taking zinc for over a year (25mg/d) and got my serum levels checked still in the bottom half of the range.
(I haven't had the kryptopyrole or KPU test but from taking the vitamins I know the pyroluria glove fits me!  as well as histadelia sometimes.)

There are studies showing benefits of omega 6s for depression too.  Some people need more omega 3 and some more GLA.  Wanted to share some of this for a while, hope you all don't mind this essay!


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Symbi
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Oh dear, now I've read the thread and realised I wasn't exactly on topic - sorry TJ!


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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brinyskysail
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 6:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Symbi
Oh dear, now I've read the thread and realised I wasn't exactly on topic - sorry TJ!


I found it all very interesting   If you have the info, may as well share it


There is a good in every bad  
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AKArtlover
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Thanks Symbi, interesting stuff.  


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Goldie
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 11:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Symbi... great info even for general background.. what tests do you do to know ?? or to confirm what you know?


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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TJ
Saturday, June 4, 2011, 6:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My amine sensitivity and migraines went away once I quit grains.  I think the amines were getting into circulation before they were fully digested.
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Symbi
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Glad you all enjoyed and everyone's so open minded!

The cheap way to tell is to try the supplements and see how they affect you (with Dr supervision of course!).  For me I know the GLA from evening primrose oil is helping, breast tenderness is way better, less bloating, PMS and my skin finally feels hydrated and supple, also less dry mouth.  Mood much steadier and clearer thinking like a fog has been lifted.  Fish oil made me feel agitated and increases my tinnitus, now I take it only every fourth day to counteract possibly omega 6 inflammation.
For B6 - when I started remembering dreams again.  For zinc - the white specks on fingernails went away and my sense of smell stayed constant.  Not really sure if I have too much or too little histamine - seem to swing from one to the other a bit.  You KNOW when you're histadelic!  Interesting pyrolurics prone to adrenal fatigue (tick) and I fit the symptoms even the pale skin.

Or I know in Australia a naturopath can order a blood test of whole histamine, or a urine test for HPU, Kryptopyroles (Mauve factor), should be even easier in USA!  (I read you need to add vitamin c to preserve the urine specimen and cease zinc and b vitamins beforehand.)

Some online reading:

Signs, symptoms & indicators of Histadelia (Histamine High): http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C447056.html
Pyroluria: http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C372380.html
Histapenia (Histamine Low) Overview: http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C376825.html

Commentary on Nutritional Treatment
of Mental Disorders article
from Willam Walsh, Ph.D., Senior Scientist, (formerly of Health Research Institute & Pfeiffer Treatment Center, now Director of Walsh Research Institute) http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walsh.htm#AD

Here's lots of info on histadelia: http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-64775

Pyroluria / HPU:
http://www.hputest.nl/ewhat.htm
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Pyroluria

Histamine intolerance (I really started reading about this in relation to migraines - this knowledge has reduced mine considerably along with Mg) Still eat some foods that cause headaches - but need the antioxidants like the raspberries for breakfast are kicking in now!  Glad your headaches are better TJ
http://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/histamine-intolerance-review/
http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/5/1185.full

Clinics:

In USA and worldwide: see here big list of clinics and great site full of resources: http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/centers.shtml

In Australia: Bio-balance Health http://www.biobalance.org.au/

Books:

There's a book called "depression free naturally by Joan Mathews Larson, Ph.D. " and lots of info here: http://www.joanmathewslarson.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/DepressionFree_TheBook.htm (haven't read it myself)

Another book "natural healing for bipolar disorder" http://naturalhealingforbipola.....re-on-pyroluria.html (haven't read it myself)

Enjoy!


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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deblynn3
Sunday, June 5, 2011, 2:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from honeybee


Has everyone reading this attempted to stand on one leg, eyes closed?

It is really quite difficult - 3 out of 3 people I asked could not really do it. Certainly not elegantly!


I did and can, both left and right.


Swami, 100% me..
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TJ
Sunday, June 5, 2011, 1:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Symbi
The cheap way to tell is to try the supplements and see how they affect you (with Dr supervision of course!)....

For B6 - when I started remembering dreams again....  Interesting pyrolurics prone to adrenal fatigue (tick) and I fit the symptoms even the pale skin....

Some online reading:

...Pyroluria: http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C372380.html
I went over this page on Pyroluria and some others this morning (a more thorough reading than what I looked at last night).  I can relate to this: poor stress tolerance, anxiety, depression, pale-ish skin, poor dream recall, joint stiffness/pain, light exertion fatigue, light and noise sensitivity, and everything getting worse under moderate stress (poor stress tolerance).  This may be a part of it for me.

I just started supplementing with zinc again.  I guess I need to add B6, too.  Thanks for sharing those links!

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TJ
Sunday, June 5, 2011, 2:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Oh wait, I haven't started the zinc yet -- other than what's in my multi.  I have zinc coming in my Vitamin Shoppe order that's supposed to arrive tomorrow.
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TJ
Monday, June 6, 2011, 11:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Here's an interesting post about pyroluria on another health forum:

pyroluria supps...my experience...it's WORKING !!!

My supps came today (including the zinc, 50 mg), and I went out and bought a small bottle of B6 (200 mg).  The order also included a bottle of caprylic acid for candida, and glucosamine sulfate for joint health and detox support.
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brinyskysail
Monday, June 6, 2011, 11:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I saw this and figured it might be relevant to you, TJ - I know I have trouble with absorbing supplements

Quoted Text
Recovering and controlling the pyroluria is not just a matter of taking B6 and zinc. The deficiency of these two nutrients lead to many secondary deficiencies such as manganese that will also need to be addressed. The encouraging thing about pyroluria is that the typical patient sees a great improvement within 24-72 hours, though it may take 3-6 months to reach a consistently stable level. Because of the varying presentations and severities of pyroluria, each person does best with a treatment plan specifically tailored to him. In my practice, this includes not just B6 and zinc, but classical homeopathy, herbs and diet to address the condition more comprehensively. Having a practitioner monitor this plan treatment to recognize symptoms over or under-dosing is essential.

Part of the pyroluria picture is less-than-optimal digestive health. If the person has had pyroluria for long enough or it's particularly severe, he may not be able to absorb B6 and other nutrients that are necessary through pills. These people take massive amounts of pills daily and don't see an improvement. I routinely offer injections to start the treatment process or prescribe a high quality liquid form of active B6 for the patient to pick up at the local pharmacy. In addition, I help the patient improve the health of their intestines so they can eventually absorb B6 and zinc through pills.


There is a good in every bad  
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TJ
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Kyosha Nim
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Thanks for that heads-up.  It will be a few more months before I can afford to see a practitioner...assuming I can find one around here!
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brinyskysail
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explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
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Quoted from TJ
Thanks for that heads-up.  It will be a few more months before I can afford to see a practitioner...assuming I can find one around here!


I understand that

Since you just got more supplements, I thought it was a good reminder for determining if you're absorbing supplements.  I completely gave up on some things I was taking because I don't think I was absorbing them, and it's too expensive to take them for nothing.  It also makes it difficult because if you don't absorb them you get no effect from them and then the question arises of whether you don't need it or whether you need it and just aren't absorbing it.  confusion


There is a good in every bad  
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Symbi
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Hey I'm really glad it might help you!  A friend told me about her kryptopyrrole test and how she's together on her supplements and schizophrenia runs in her family, I'm so grateful to her.  I have depression in my family and suspecting now we all have symptoms of this.

I was totally stabbing in the dark when I said that low and high histamine cycling might cause bipolar.  When I was getting those last links together I saw lots of info that bipolar and pyroluria are often found together (try and google those two words TJ!).  

Note that zinc is recommended for all nonnies by Dr D, and we often have depression/low serotonin which B6 can help.  So I really wonder if Porphyria (the medical condition related to pyroluria) is a nonnie - explorer tendency with stress and modern pollution.  I've read that it can be caused by heavy metal toxicity.  Hoping amalgum removal will help my condition.  Explorers and porphyhrics/pyrolurics/warewolves (check that out warewolves and porphyria   ) all have lower levels of p450 enzymes from what I understand.  Porphyria is not well known but may be soon through genetic testing probably widespread.

Thanks for the link. Been reading up on it for many months now and it's interesting many views about it some of them conflicting though they all agree zinc, b6 plus GLA in differing amounts.  You may need to get some Evening Primrose oil, or borage oil - even higher in GLA (but I read that it has a alkaline that can cause liver damage so choose pyrrolizidine alkaloid free supplements).

I took zinc for many years now (started at 50 now down to 25mg a day before bed) and b6 200mg broken into two one with breakfast and lunch.  Also take high dose multi B with breakfast among others.  (Some people say they can take some P-5-P or both and others can't and take B6 only.  I've only done B6 so far.) It all really started working when I stopped taking fish oil every day and doubled my EPO to 6 capsules a day, adding fish oil every fourth day.  Info here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/358711.html

You can get serum zinc levels tested at your doctor.  I also read somewhere that Serum alkaline phosphatase (usually lower in nonnies just like it is in the gut)  correlates with zinc levels.  It is part of liver function tests so you can guess from that.  As have lower levels and O high levels too, I think Bs should be in the middle. Do you know?

About B6 conversion to active form I make sure I take the cofactors too: magnesium (oh yeah common topic is back) and Zinc and B2 and vitamin A I read somewhere, sorry can't find.  (think I gave you enough reading  ) Just found out I'm low in Vitamin A so back on those supplements and started feeling better already.  Had lost libido and was getting more depressed, having bad nightmares for a while there.

BTW there are lists of drugs that are safe to take if you have porphyria and prozac and mirtrazapine are two of the only antidepressants that aren't porphyric.  

Here's an interesting link about detox issues and sulphation you may like mate: http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=697  Enjoy!


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Here's a link about conversion to P-5-P - celiacs don't do it as well. http://books.google.com.au/boo.....ge&q&f=false

Keep reading in all these things about eating more carbs or protein or what.  I'm following Dr D on that regard!


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It might be helpful for people in the future to start a new thread just for pyroluria and repost the info from this thread.  There is a lot of good info (Thanks, Symbi ) so it would be a shame if peope missed out on it because they were looking in the wrong place.  It's also good to have the info here, though, since you're connecting it to bipolar and this thread mentions bipolar in the title.  Anyway, a thought...


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Thanks Brinyskysail, good point.  Would be good to be in two places, cross referencing, are you a librarian?    Always thought about being one myself!  Should see my dvd collection catalogue.

Was worried though cos it's outside of the blood type diet universe.  Testing the waters a bit here.  It's also spread all over the internet with many different views on it and no real scientific backup with studies etc.  Though there are many open minds on this forum, like you, which makes it a great place!    Will do one day.


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Quoted from brinyskysail
Since you just got more supplements, I thought it was a good reminder for determining if you're absorbing supplements.  I completely gave up on some things I was taking because I don't think I was absorbing them, and it's too expensive to take them for nothing.  It also makes it difficult because if you don't absorb them you get no effect from them and then the question arises of whether you don't need it or whether you need it and just aren't absorbing it.  confusion
I'm pretty sure I'm absorbing at least some of what I take.  I can feel the difference in energy when I lay off on B5 or licorice root, and I felt my muscle strength come back (some) when I backed off the magnesium.
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Quoted from brinyskysail
It might be helpful for people in the future to start a new thread just for pyroluria and repost the info from this thread.  There is a lot of good info (Thanks, Symbi ) so it would be a shame if peope missed out on it because they were looking in the wrong place.  It's also good to have the info here, though, since you're connecting it to bipolar and this thread mentions bipolar in the title.  Anyway, a thought...
Agreed.  You can post it appropriately in the Encyclopedia forum.
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Quoted from TJ
Agreed.  You can post it appropriately in the Encyclopedia forum.


I'm really not sure what "appropriately in the Encyclopedia forum" means.  That's why I suggested it...because I don't know what to do about it myself

No, Symbi, I'm not a librarian, but I do tend to keep things quite orderly   For me, ordered surroundings = ordered mind


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Quoted from brinyskysail


I'm really not sure what "appropriately in the Encyclopedia forum" means.  That's why I suggested it...because I don't know what to do about it myself


To create a thread there follow this link to the Encyclopedia forum:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-encloplib/

Then click on the "New Thread" link at the top of the Encyclopedia forum page:


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.

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I could have said that more clearly.  The bit about where to post was more in response to Symbi's concern that pyroluria isn't related to BTD.  The Encyclopedia/D'Adamo Library forum is "The place to discuss specific medical conditions, diseases, syndromes and other health challenges", so it should be posted there.
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Thanks everyone now I know where to go - I'm sorry for hijacking your thread TJ!

I had a thought related to the original topic.   They are saying in the study that bipolar types had problems with side to side balance from the hips.  To me that movement of swaying left to right cooincides with the thought "I don't know, I'm in two minds, I could go that way about it or the other".  

Just a theory.  Could be something to do with left and right hemispheres brain dominance.  
Worth reading up about that!  Maybe that's for another thread again!  

Found this quote on it (very interesting article!):
Quoted Text
"HAND, HEMISPHERE, AND PSYCHOSIS

Hemisphere “dominance” does not mean that one side of the brain controls the other side. Rather, a person’s dominant hemisphere is the one in which the brain’s language processes and the motor capacities that facilitate speech reside. As emphasized by Michael Gazzaniga, Ph.D., a former Dartmouth College researcher now at the University of California, Santa Barbara, who has studied functions and interactions of the hemispheres, for most people the left hemisphere is dominant for language, including speech, and the right is specialized for tasks such as recognizing faces, grasping spatial relations, and paying attention. A thick bundle of nerve fibers, called the corpus callosum, connects the hemispheres of the brain, providing us with the sense that our brain is integrated. But do right-hemisphere skills explain why left-handed baseball, tennis, and handball players have been found to display better coordination between vision and spatial-motor tasks? ......

Klar believes his theory also may explain why there is a threefold higher prevalence of non-right-handedness in people with schizophrenia and people with bipolar disorder. Some studies of families with several members who have either schizophrenia or bipolar disease suggest abnormalities related to hemisphere asymmetry. In particular, the affected family members with psychoses seem to have brain hemispheres that are more symmetrical in terms of their functioning, with language processes present in both hemispheres. While many studies point to some genetic basis for psychosis, no gene mutation has been identified, despite decades of research. " http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=656

Apparently it's not usual to have such symmetrical hemispheres. I've read elsewhere that mood disorders like borderline personality are related to left and right brain switching.

I can relate to that.  Don't think I'm crazy it's under control! Rampant hijacking, thinking and researching isn't tho.  


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Here's a fun test, see which side of the brain you are using at the moment.  I see her spinning clockwise so I'm using the right hand side.  Other times I see her spinning the other way    Hours of fun!

http://www.perthnow.com.au/fun-games/left-brain-vs-right-brain/story-e6frg46u-1111114517613


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thanks, Symbi, that is fun....plus your research is interesting...
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This link is kind of goofy, but page 2 of a review of 3 books regarding antidepressants coming out. There are page number links on there if you look close...
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?page=2
Thanks to Dr. N for sharing.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Thanks jayneeo!  Anyone else see her spinning clockwise - am I the only one in my right brain?  he he

Interesting link AKArtlover.  Good to see all different sides of the pictures.  They are major drugs and the body tries to compensate - I've seen studies that SSRIs end up decreasing the number of serotonin receptors, which is beneficial to some people.  Also read Gingko Biloba can increase those receptors and be taken at the same time as SSRIs to alleviate many side effects.  

No doubt a lot of depression is helped by placebos and changes in attitudes.  


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TJ-  That really makes sense for me.  My NMT practitioner did a sensorymotor pathway on me and I've been in much better balance (emotionally) since then.  I had pretty good physical balance and such, thanks to taekwondo and yoga, but this time of year I'm usually in a constant state of sensory overload.  I've always been clumsy, taekwondo has helped in the sense that I can now catch most of the things I drop, but coordination was never really my strong suit.  

I'm bipolar-SAD, and I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am for the diagnosis (well the SAD part was diagnosed, I figured out the bipolar part one spring after I'd beaten the depression away enough to become hypomanic).  Of course SAD has other treatments in the arsenal, like light therapy (or avoiding sunlight in the manic phase).  Today I got a lot of sun at the carnival, and didn't go into overload or get angry or agitated, so that was really amazing for me.

I know things are all inter-connected, and feel that many emotional problems are manifestations of faulty processes within many systems of the body...I'm glad they're starting to make some connections.


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I see her spinning clockwise...(I responded to the first page of the thread again, and just read through some of the other pages, so I'm a little behind here).


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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perhaps might it be much easier to acknowledge the psychological types we can be we once learned about how our liquids are influencing our moods... and yup it truly matches perfectly, even in our days ....btw... I think eating accordingly to our bloodtypes helpes us tremendiously to feel better and to become "the one we shall become*  


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Wow, she was going clockwise.  I would've thought the other way for myself.  That is very interesting.

My son is seeing clockwise also.  Now I'm getting skeptical.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

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Quoted Text


when I looked at her directly she goes clockwise but when I read the text next to her then she changes to the other way around and when I look at her then she changes yet again just by me looking elsewhere.. she keeps on changing..  unless I lokk directly at her..

so now what?


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Clockwise for me, too.
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Clockwise for me three. I couldn't even get her to switch when I was trying to, although I know I've been able to do so in the past.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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I can only write well when I'm depressed, so I don't have much to say.

One side affect of depression for me is memory loss.  I will go back and read stuff I've written on this site and have no recollection of writing it or even feeling that way.

TJ, have you looked into Bach Flower remedies?  I think you would benefit from seeing an ND.  If you save even $200, you can pay for a visit and a good many supplements (many of mine are made in Utah--maybe they'd be cheaper there).  There are some really great homeopathic formulas that I know have helped me tremendously just to feel more balanced and calm but not tired.  The funny thing is that most practitioners have told me I need calming/settling herbs, and it's always confused me because I'm so tired!  But because of the extreme fatigue and inability to rest (because I...um...have children), my nervous system was actually becoming frantic.  That physical frantic-ness was what they were picking up on, and it's what's calmed down now.


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Yeah, young living oils is probably your neighbor!  That's some good stuff.  But not cheap.

So we're all seeing her clockwise.  I think there's something wrong with the test.  We can't all be right brainers.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

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I saw counter-clockwise mostly.  Like Goldie, when I looked at her directly she went clockwise for a few seconds.  
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Quoted from Ribbit
I can only write well when I'm depressed, so I don't have much to say.
I've noticed that my writing is better then, too.

Quoted from Ribbit
TJ, have you looked into Bach Flower remedies?  I think you would benefit from seeing an ND.  If you save even $200, you can pay for a visit and a good many supplements (many of mine are made in Utah--maybe they'd be cheaper there).
I haven't yet.  Now that I'm gainfully employed, I just might be able to get some outside help.  Utah does seem to be a mecca of health and wellness enthusiasts; I shouldn't have a problem finding a practitioner here!  But I need a vehicle, an apartment, and new glasses first.
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Quoted from Ribbit
TJ, have you looked into Bach Flower remedies?  I think you would benefit from seeing an ND.  If you save even $200, you can pay for a visit and a good many supplements (many of mine are made in Utah--maybe they'd be cheaper there).  There are some really great homeopathic formulas that I know have helped me tremendously just to feel more balanced and calm but not tired.  The funny thing is that most practitioners have told me I need calming/settling herbs, and it's always confused me because I'm so tired!  But because of the extreme fatigue and inability to rest (because I...um...have children), my nervous system was actually becoming frantic.  That physical frantic-ness was what they were picking up on, and it's what's calmed down now.


~~subliminal Aquaflora to TJ~~


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Quoted from maukik
I saw counter-clockwise mostly.  Like Goldie, when I looked at her directly she went clockwise for a few seconds.  


Woooah.  A counter clockwiser.  No way!!  Are you sure it's counter?  


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Quoted from JJR
Woooah.  A counter clockwiser.  No way!!  Are you sure it's counter?  


Yep.  I tend to be left brain.  I often wondered if it is because I was raised by my dad, no mom in the house. Not sure.  It could be the INTP.

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Andrew
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This lefty observed that she was spinning around clockwise (when looking down on her). (Lefties are always in their right mind   ) While reading the text she was spinning counter clockwise.

That is a very interesting visual effect.


Andrew


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(Y-Chrom R1b1 M343) (Father's mtChrom A)

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I see counter clockwise no matter what.  I tried looking from different angles, looking at the sides of the screens, looking directly at her - I still saw counter clockwise


There is a good in every bad  
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i see her spinning both ways - she just stops and changes direction again and again ad infinitum.
Wonder if she can do it with her eyes closed
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So, about the B6.  When I started taking it (in the morning) I only noticed my dreams more when I took a nap during the day, so I started taking it in the evening also (200 mg each time).  Now I notice it!

I wish my dreams weren't quite as vivid and/or memorable now (but I know I need the B6).  This morning I dreamed about a black widow spider the size of my hand, and the only thing I had to kill it with was a banana.  I had to hit it several times to kill it, and then a bunch of tiny spiders came out of its body.  Oh the horror, I HATE spiders!
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Ee Dan
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Gender: Female
Location: Bedford, PA
Age: 25
Quoted from TJ
This morning I dreamed about a black widow spider the size of my hand, and the only thing I had to kill it with was a banana.



Valiant knight of the banana sword!


There is a good in every bad  
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brinyskysail
Monday, June 13, 2011, 1:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,229
Gender: Female
Location: Bedford, PA
Age: 25
goofiness aside, I'm glad you're noticing a difference already!


There is a good in every bad  
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JJR
Monday, June 13, 2011, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
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Did you eat the banana?       :' (


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Melissa_J
Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 12:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator & Blogger
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Location: Utah, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from Symbi

[*]pyroluria low levels of zinc, B6 and arachidonic acid (an omega-6 fat) (aka porphyria - real medical condition I suspect nonnies prone to it, one cause stress or heavy metal toxicity),
[*]histapenia Depressed folate, B3, B12 and excess copper (lack of histamine - histamine is increased by folate),
[*]histadelia Depressed calcium, methionine, B6 and excess folic acid (recognised medical condition histaminosis due to lack of copper containing DAO enzyme to break down histamine in gut and brain)
[*]as well as allergies, hypoglycemia, metal toxicities and more
[/list]
Here's a summary chart: http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?condition=Schizophrenia .  Lots of, sometimes dodgy information around the net talking about over and under methylation - that is one explanation but may not be all of it (DAO for instance).



Thanks Symbi for posting that.  I must look into Histadelia for my son.  The description sure fits.  I'll start another thread about it elsewhere.



Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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TJ
Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 11:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I need to eat my words.  The B6 at night is just too much.  I'm not sleeping as well!  I'm going to just take two pills in the morning instead of one in the morning and one in the evening.  Goodbye, spiders.
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Symbi
Thursday, June 16, 2011, 2:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

AO + MN Super-taster SWAMI-X Explorer
Ee Dan
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lol squish the spiders, anything will do. Good to hear a difference is happening.  I take the Bs in the morning and some at lunch too cos they're too stimulating for me at night.  I take calming minerals at night before bed on a nearly empty stomach - do you know that oils and minerals together makes indigestible soap!    I've read that some recommend the other way round especially if you take P-5-P.  Probably the B6 needs more digestion to be turned into P-5-P so better digested in the morning.

Lots of people in their right brain on here - global thinkers no doubt!  Goldie IMHO people who switch that's good, so you're using both sides.  I've seen her both directions in the past.  It could change depending on what you are doing.

I think it's important to remember your dreams.  There are therapies for post traumatic stress where you roll your eyes around (like in REM sleep) while remembering traumatic events and it helps get over them.  Seems to me that dreams are a way of doing that.  I've gotten through many past issues since remembering dreams and working the symbols out in past six months or so

Melissa_J glad the info may have helped you step in the right direction.

Ribbit - there are linkages between Lyme and Pyroluria / KPU / HPU highlighted by Dietrich Klinghardt M.D., Ph.D.  Here's a summary his KPU / Lyme protocol and this guy has some interesting links too http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/181-kpu-talk-at-lymelighters  
There's info and a two hour talk by Dr Klinghardt here http://planetthrive.com/2010/04/hpukpu-protocol-for-lyme-and-autism/ Interesting he draws a link between increased EMF and exponential increases in mold toxin production.  Explains a lot!


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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TJ
Thursday, June 16, 2011, 2:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 39
Quoted from Symbi
lol squish the spiders, anything will do. Good to hear a difference is happening.  I take the Bs in the morning and some at lunch too cos they're too stimulating for me at night.
Apparently they are for me, too.  I sleep much better last night.

I think I'm going to go for one of those kryptopyrole tests once other financial needs have been taken care of.  I'd like to know just how much B6 and zinc I'm going to need.
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Sahara
Thursday, June 16, 2011, 3:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'm having bad dreams at night also, continually forget to take my vitamins.  I'm even better about exercise.  My dreams are very complex and intense, often with themes of travel, loss, chaos and danger.  
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ascend9
Thursday, June 16, 2011, 7:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hey guys...
This is my fav. thread as I am a mentally challenged person.
I have just been through a bad period of depression.....it lasted 2 weeks. I work full time and just have had my "normal person" mask on while working but have been avoiding all the people that give a s@#t about me as I hate them to see me this messed up. As I am writing this my mind is clear again......I have no idea why this happens to me. I am 36 years old and 60% of the time I am an everyday member of society but the other 40% I live in a very dark place that no one else can understand.
Thats it I've had enough......time to sort out this brain of mine.
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Symbi
Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

AO + MN Super-taster SWAMI-X Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,252
Gender: Female
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Ascend9 - Well worth spending time to heal past traumas or work out and correct imbalances.  So much attention on physical health in this world, but the mental side plays second fiddle.  Being aware there is a problem is a great first step and becoming observant of yourself and situations.  There is hope.

The library is a great place for information.  Reading a great book at the moment "Will I ever be good enough - healing the daughters or narcissistic mothers".  My DH says it should just say "yes" and that would be a short book.    Am also seeing a counsellor.

TJ - good idea to do the test to be sure.  There is apparently the more accurate HPU test available in the US now through Vitamin Diagnostics.  See Dr Klinghart's advice here under how does one get tested / diagnosed.  http://planetthrive.com/2010/04/hpukpu-protocol-for-lyme-and-autism/  In the video he explains freeze small amount of urine through the day and then thaw them altogether, freeze together before sending (also add vitamin C and cover from light).  Those pesky things can apparently be elusive and be excreted at different times of day usually afternoons.  I read elsewhere that everyone make krypopyroles under stress.  The HPU test is supposedly more accurate.


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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Ribbit
Saturday, July 30, 2011, 2:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
Symbi, you've given me lots to research and think about.  Thank you.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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AKArtlover
Saturday, July 30, 2011, 1:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 38
Quoted from Symbi
Reading a great book at the moment "Will I ever be good enough - healing the daughters or narcissistic mothers"


WOW. The title of that book just clicked in my head. I have only love and compassion left for my mother, but in a nutshell-- it explains a lot. Already worked a lot of my stuff out in other ways, but WOW. Nice pattern recognition by the author. Added to wish list. Thanks!


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Ribbit
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
Yeah...another one to add to my list of used books to order online.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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trish44
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 12:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sam Dan
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Age: 69
Greetings all,  I have just found this thread, and wanted to add my experience with mental illness in both my mother and sister.  My mother was schizophrenic from the age of 30 somthing.  The three of us siblings went thru some trauma.  My sister was diagnosed bi-polar in her 40's after some stress, and was on lithium for over 20 years.  Now has switched to another drug, which seems to be working well for her.  For me, the shock of finding out that she had this diagnosis, and how she changed, was devestating.  I felt like I had lost my sister.  Our mother had died a few years before.  Even with the meds, she is a difficult person to relate with.  But the point that I wanted to make is, that when I learned about the low carb diet back in the 70's, I remember feeling so well, that I felt in my gut that my mother's illness had to have been made worse by her diet.  For years I was borderline anurexic while not eating right, just extremely low carb.  Then came the opposite thing, lots of so called multi-grains, and low fat.  I not only gained weight, but became depressed, and eventually became ill with cancer.  I am sure that there is a genetic predisposition to this disease, but stress must be the big factor.  And it is quite possible in my mind that food factors into the equation, to what degree, one cannot be sure.  One other thing someone brought up here was magnesium.  I had never heard that before, but I am intersted in that.  Back when I was very thin, I was having a lot of issues with muscle spasms.  In my back and neck.  I played a lot of tennis, and needed to figure that out.  I decided that I have a deficiency in magnesium, and began to supplement on and off.  After the cancer, I began having leg cramps at night, and started taking it again.  Now I take it twice a day and that problem is gone.  My sister had seizures as a college student for several years when she was eating one meal a day, this was way before the bi-polar.  So perhaps the magnesium deficiency is somehow a factor.  She is now taking it as well.  It is all such a puzzle, and I love to try to put it together.  Didn't mean to ramble on so, hope it is all helpful to someone.    


Trish44 (type O)
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Goldie
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 1:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
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Trsish 44 you have a story to tell.. you are a mearvel at being here and learning as we all do..

Are YOU well today? you have over come a lot.. !


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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trish44
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sam Dan
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Location: Texas
Age: 69
Thank you, yes, am doing well.  Still working at losing the weight gained after cancer and prednisone.  But it is slowly coming off.  Had my thyroid removed a year and a half ago, second time there was a benign tumor there.  So do feel better now that I am on that hormone.  My biggest issue is the arthritis in my back keeps me from doing all that I would like.  Though I am still able to play some doubles once a week, my mind still wants to play a tough game of singles, ha!  I recently began using a dhea cream, and it is making me feel a bit younger than my 66 years.  Think that will be an on and off thing for a while.  I am so thankful for feeling as well as I do, but there is always an effort to improve.  That is good.


Trish44 (type O)
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Goldie
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 2:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

All Gatherer -70 Scorp/Sag on BTD/GENO 17 year
Sam Dan
Posts: 5,868
Gender: Female
Location: East Coast
you are indeed a 'big' success all around keep it up.. all the best.


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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KimonoKat
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Location: Sherman Oaks, California
Okay. I took the time to through the entire thread and saw very little in the way of bodywork modalities that might go in conjunction with the article.  Good mention on the crainal/sacral work.

The immediate thing that came to my mind was Rolfing.  I'm a big believer of this work bringing people into structural alignment.  I understand that it's not for everybody, and there may be people here who disagree with the benefits of Rolfing.

I recommend two books.  

One is by a Rolfer, Briah Anson. It's titled Rolfing, Stories of Personal Empowerment  It's a compilation of stories told from the voice/perspective of her patients, what they felt going through the Rolfing and the changes/benefits they experienced.

Anson writes:
A key principle of Rolfing is that "the body is a plastic medium."  The most immediate plastic component of the body is that we can get our hands on, and physically alter in form and function, is fascia.  Fascia give form to the body; it is the most pervasive tissue.  

Fascia surrounds every muscle cell, controlling and guiding its function.  It is a continuous wrapping that entwines all the muscle tissue in the bod, as well as every bone, nerve, organ, ligament, joint, cartilage and vessel.

Fascia can be broken down into three anatomical divisions: 1. superficial fascia which is below the skin. 2. Deep fascia, around muscle, bone, nerves, vessels and organs. 3. Deepest fascia, the drua of the craniosacral system.

Fascia, from the Latin meaning bands, responds to trauma by tightening and shortening, creating a chain reaction with other parts of the body and, over time, pulling the body out of proper alignment.
~~~End Quote

The photos in the book are amazing of people's before and after photos.  And also interesting is a photo of a Gluetal muscles separated showing fascial wrapping.

Over 125 people were interviewed, although not all those interviews made it into the book. There are about 100 stories told either through narrative or photos. Anson also states, "Rolfing is an inherently individual endeavor. There is no typical Rolfing experience."  And the stories demonstrate that.

The first thing I thought of TJ, was one of the first stories in the book, about a baby that was born with extreme nurological damage.  The infant has been Rolfed on a regular basis from about 3 months of age. She's made nurological strides that more than doubled what the doctors expected she would be able to do so far; at time of publication, she's still a very young child.

Many of the individuals who have been Rolfed talk about a mental clarity that they gained that they didn't have before.

The other book is by my master bodywork teacher, William "Dub" Leigh, Bodytherapy, From Rolf to Feldenkrais to Tanouye Roshi.  The book is probably out of print and if you can't find a copy TJ, I have one I can loan you.

My teacher was in the first Rolfing class (a first-generation Rolfer) Ida Rolf gave. He also studied extensively with Moshe Feldenkrais. He is one of only two individuals to have been certified by both teachers.  Dub's last teacher was a Japanese Zen master, who taught him to work bodies with ki (chi) energy. Dub has said that was a master class, studying with the Roshi. (All life is energy and aberrations in structure block the smooth flow of that energy.)  Dub also studied directly with Lauren Berry, trigger points with John St. John and Trager work with Milton Trager.

A quote from Dub's book:
The human species is molded by instinct far less than any other animal species. We are unique because our nervous system is not wired in at birth. For the greater part we acquire our habits as we go. The calf drops from the cow clothed in fur, stands, finds a teat, and starts sucking. The human baby is born naked and helpless.  It can only cry and flail about when its needs are not met.  Animals are born completely wired with most of the patterns they will use during their entire lifetimes, and their brain size changes very little.  Humans are born with the most complex and and sophisticated nervous systems but with only one reflex operational at birth, the falling instinct which causes the baby to contract when dropped.  We learn most of the patterns we need to survive, and at maturity our brains are five times larger than at birth.  Compared with animals we have an infinite capacity to learn different patterns of behavior.  The sophistication of our nervous system makes self-awareness and muscular refinement possible to a remarkable degree. We have the possibility of living gracefully in full awareness.

If our nervous system ultimately gives us an advantage over animals, it also allows us to learn inefficient, aberrated patterns.  To perform the simple act of sitting, for example, we rarely align our structure and allow gravity to support us.  Instead we clench our thigh muscles, strain our back, constrict our breathing, push our neck forward, and so on, eventually impairing not only our motor activity but our thoughts and feelings as well.

What we wire into our nervous systems are not separate patterns of movement, thought, and feeling, but entire experiences.  The self records the movements, thoughts, and feelings of an experience as a whole.  They are inseparable, and changes in any are reflected in changes in all.
End Quote

If I've piqued your interest, let me know.

Sharing with the best of intentions.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:39pm
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trish44
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sam Dan
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KK, that is all so intriguing.  I have had but a few massages in my life, but I know that the very good ones have me coming out feeling wonderfully aligned and even taller.  Have no idea what Rolfing is.  But my husband had an acuaintance come out and do some sort of 'energy' treatment on him a while back.  At the time he was having a hip pain problem, and said that it went totally away after that 20 minute treatment.  There was no touching involved.  There has to be something to it all.  


Trish44 (type O)
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AKArtlover
Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
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KK


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Symbi
Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 2:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Ohhr you're welcome Ribbit.
Hope it helps you as much as it helped me.  


INFJ ex-Ghee Whiz, GTD Explorer Sept_09 - SWAMI Mar_10

Family - O+ DH and DD (both hunter-ish)
IBS, Fibro, Hashimotos, Adenomyosis, Oral Lichen Planus, Breast Cancer, Terminal case of Optimism
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TJ
Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 12:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Rolfing does interest me.  I remember it being mentioned in some other threads as well.
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