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C_Sharp
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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One of the concepts discussed by Dr. D'Adamo at the conference was hormesis.

I was trying to figure out how I could establish what would be the appropriate hormetic dose level for various foods.



Issue 1

Let's say I know what dose of a food will present an immediate adverse but short term affect (say headache, hives, digestive distress).

A) Is this the level I want. I positively know that I have stressed the body. I am will to endure short term pain for increasing my overall health and longevity.

B) Do I want to try to scale the dose back off of this to:
--The most I can eat just short of inducing sickness.
--One tenth of dose that produces short term observable effects
--One hundredth of dose that produces short term observable effects
--One Thousandth of dose that produces short term observable effects
--Some other dose level




Issue two:

Could I just include a few inorganic foods in my diet and assume that my body is sufficiently stressed that I do not need to eat foods rated as toxins/avoids?



Issue three:

If I currently have enough allergens (mold, pollen, dust, chemicals in air) to stress my body, should I assume that is enough stress, and not try to include any efforts including foods for hormesis?


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Wait- what on earth does hormesis have to do with intentionally ingesting toxins?

I thought hormesis was the idea that everything is good, in the right amount. Too much exercise stresses the body, lack of exercise is bad for you, but "just right" exercise is strenghtening. Too much sun causes sunburn, heat stroke, and skin cancer, too little sun causes vitamin D deficiency and depression, just the right amount is beneficial. The trace amount of arsenic and lead in my sea salt are "just the right amount" for those trace minerals, etc etc.

If you get sick eating a certain food, then you shouldn't eat it. Or, if it's creating a "healing crisis" then it's probably best to eat it in a small enough "dose" that it doesn't cause any unpleasant symptoms. That might be half the portion size for some foods, 3/4 the portion size for another, 1/10th of another. There isn't "one right answer" that works across the board, for all foods and all  bodies.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Tom Martens
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't think Dr. D'Adamo meant to use lectins as a means for hormetics.


Be who you are.  Those who mind don't matter, those who matter won't mind.

FIfHI

M,M LeA+ LeB-

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Amazone I.
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 6:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I still miss the psychosomatic aspects...


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C_Sharp
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 6:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tom Martens
I don't think Dr. D'Adamo meant to use lectins as a means for hormetics.


May want to look at slide 144 in "The Two-Fold Aspect of Everything"
This slide is headed "Low Lectin Diet" vs "No-Lectin diet" vs "I Don't Know Lectin Diet"

The graph on the slide includes a Hormetic Zone for lectins.

(For those without the slides-The graph resembles a single cycle of a sine wave. No dose at extreme left--doses increasing to the right. Hormetic Zone is on the right where the curve is positive. As dose increases the wave goes negative.)


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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mikeo
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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sometimes lectins are beneficial in small amounts(hormetic) especially for polyps or colon health like mushrooms and fava beans


RHN MIfHI
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Victoria
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Since I don't know what you are talking about, I'd like to understand the topic better.  

Are you saying that certain foods that might bring about illness in larger (or more consistent) amounts, might be used in smaller controlled portions as a way to stimulate a healing or health-promoting effect?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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Chloe
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hormetics sounds like homeopathy.  Titrate something down to almost nothing and it can cure.
ie Belladona...which in a large dose is poison.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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C_Sharp
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria


Are you saying that certain foods that might bring about illness in larger (or more consistent) amounts, might be used in smaller controlled portions as a way to stimulate a healing or health-promoting effect?


Yes, but to apply the concept one needs to know the quantity that is health promoting versus being harmful.

So I am asking how to calculate the dose that is health promoting.

A later slide suggests one can use can use targeted hormesis to prevent dementia, osteoporosis, cancer ...

I kind of would like to prevent dementia, but without some knowledge of an appropriate dose I am not able to adjust my diet to get the benefits of hormesis.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Wholefoodie
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
May want to look at slide 144 in "The Two-Fold Aspect of Everything"
This slide is headed "Low Lectin Diet" vs "No-Lectin diet" vs "I Don't Know Lectin Diet"


I saw that slide and was curious as to what Dr. D. would say about it but it was one that was not addressed. (there were many slides and only so much time!) Very interesting topic and I was wondering how it would relate to the diet.


FIfHI
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Tom Martens
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
Hormetics sounds like homeopathy.  Titrate something down to almost nothing and it can cure.
ie Belladona...which in a large dose is poison.


Hormetics has an inverse amount as compared to homeopathy.  As in you are actually getting something but in a low dose, short duration type treatment.


Be who you are.  Those who mind don't matter, those who matter won't mind.

FIfHI

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Tom Martens
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 11:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from C_Sharp


May want to look at slide 144 in "The Two-Fold Aspect of Everything"
This slide is headed "Low Lectin Diet" vs "No-Lectin diet" vs "I Don't Know Lectin Diet"

The graph on the slide includes a Hormetic Zone for lectins.

(For those without the slides-The graph resembles a single cycle of a sine wave. No dose at extreme left--doses increasing to the right. Hormetic Zone is on the right where the curve is positive. As dose increases the wave goes negative.)


I think it's the 80% compliant that will give the hermetic effect.  Lectins don't seem to be the low dose, short term "dose" that would be needed for the intended effect.


Be who you are.  Those who mind don't matter, those who matter won't mind.

FIfHI

M,M LeA+ LeB-

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Mark
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 11:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I second the fava beans. Hate beans though..
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AKArtlover
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a thread that I could think on for a few days. Betting the newbies are scratching their heads for sure.

Advice to newbies: don't get caught up in this.

C#, your brain intrigues me. So great to meet you.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Wholefoodie
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 12:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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C_sharp, I missed you at the conference!

Wanted to say hello to the guy who always has sound advice.

Angela, I am also scratching my head!


FIfHI
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Chloe
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 1:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yaman
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 1:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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C#

It was a great pleasure to have met you in person at the Conference..

About "beneficial" hormetic amounts of otherwise harmful/lethal substances, I believe there's the "individuality" here, it could be quite possible that we may all have different thresholds

My two cents

Cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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Lola
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 4:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hormetics are included in our personalized swamies .....
I believe certain foods I do get back home already create that effect, depending
I have no easy access to pure organic food choices


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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C_Sharp
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 4:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
Hormetics are included in our personalized swamies .....


Are these the black dots???


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 4:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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perhaps those, too
and also, some people can t possibly find all organic, so there too lies a possibility......
we don t live in an organic bubble so that is taken into consideration as well.....
it is a balancing act, no?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Victoria
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Would this mean that people like my friend are correct when they say we should eat a few toxin/avoids every day to keep our bodies in balance?  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Lloyd
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 7:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
Would this mean that people like my friend are correct when they say we should eat a few toxin/avoids every day to keep our bodies in balance?  


I'm not worried about not getting enough toxins in my diet. Without trying to add more.

Without having been there to hear the lecture I would take away that targeted hormetics have value.

The key being targeted.  
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Tom Martens
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 7:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
Would this mean that people like my friend are correct when they say we should eat a few toxin/avoids every day to keep our bodies in balance?  


Not every day

Once a week or month in small amouts would be reasonable.


Be who you are.  Those who mind don't matter, those who matter won't mind.

FIfHI

M,M LeA+ LeB-

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Victoria
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 9:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lloyd


I'm not worried about not getting enough toxins in my diet. Without trying to add more.


Do you mean Genotype Toxins, or environmental toxins?  'Cause I have not eaten any toxins or avoids on my food list for close to 10 years.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Victoria
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 9:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tom Martens


Not every day

Once a week or month in small amouts would be reasonable.


Tom, by "reasonable", do you mean desirable?  Maybe most people eat some avoids occasionally, but I never do.  Since this is the first I've heard of this, I'm very confused.  I'm wondering what the implications are for someone like myself who does not ever eat toxins from the food list.  Are we hurting ourselves in some way?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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