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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  LDL higher after 6 months on BTD/GTD
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LDL higher after 6 months on BTD/GTD  This thread currently has 2,112 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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I just had my blood drawn yesterday and my LDL is higher than it has ever been.     I have been on either the BTD/GTD for six months now and am about 95% compliant, buying organic fruit and veggies, grass fed meat, wild caught fish.

I had my LDL checked in Sept., before the BTD and it was 143.  Started the BTD in mid-October.  Had it checked again in late January and it was 143.  Just had it checked yesterday and it was 174.    My total cholesterol is also the highest its ever been.  It went from 225 to 258 yesterday.

I have also lost nine pounds, so I know I am doing SOMETHING right and following the diet.  I weight 111 pounds right now.  I am not sure if I could go much below 109, since I would probably have to STARVE myself to get below that weight.  

I am pretty upset right now and not sure if I should go on a statin.  I also need to assess if this diet is right for me and if so, should I go back to the BTD.  My blood results seemed better on the BTD for non-secretors than it does on the GTD.

There are so many supplements and things that have been recommended to me that I could probably start my own health food store . . . I stopped taking my supplements when I went on the bio-identical hormones because my doctor wanted to test its effectiveness.


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ruthiegirl
Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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When did you start the hormones and stop the supplements? I wonder if that alone could be the reason for the cholesterol changes.

Are you exercising regularly?

Do you have SWAMI? Now might be a good time to invest in one.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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C_Sharp
Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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When you had lower LDL readings were you taking supplements that would directly affect these measurements (Such as Red Yeast Rice or Jiao Gu Lan)?


Have you changed the amount or type of exercise that you do?


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Mayflowers
Friday, April 1, 2011, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Just take lecithin granules. 1 Tablespoon a day to start. It's fine for O's.  It dropped my cholesterol 36 points.
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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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I started the hormones on March 7th and stopped the supplements then as well.

I have and follow my SWAMI pretty closely although I cannot eat the amount of food recommended in a day even though I asked for the smallest amount of food.  I eat at least 3-4 veggies a day, mostly leafy green veggies, brocolli and root veggies, grass fed beef, lamb and wild caught fish.  I eat organic eggs.

I bought a rebounder and exercise more, not less, than I used to, although I am definitely not exercising six days a week, but I never did that before either.

I have never taken red rice yeast or Jiao Gu Lan.  My cardiologist would rather I take a statin than red rice yeast because at least it is regulated.  Red rice yeast is basically an herbal statin.

I definitely need to do some thinking here.  I don't want to end up having a heart attack like my sister and brothers . . .  


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focused
Friday, April 1, 2011, 5:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I hsve had this happen to me in the past. My theory (no scientific grounds) is that when I was eating all the fats I wanted my body did not need to produce cholesterol but when I cut down on fats cholesterol went through the roof. Since you said you didn't eat much perhaps you are not eating enough. Just my thought.

focused


SWAMId  Gatherer then Nomad then Gatherer. Currently 40% Nomad - Again.  
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Henriette Bsec
Friday, April 1, 2011, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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What are your size of LDL particles. ????
That matters more than cholesterol and numbers imo

"Small LDL particles are created through a cascade that begins with carbohydrate consumption, measuring them provides an index of both carbohydrate exposure and sensitivity. "
Read more here
http://www.heartscanblog.org/2009/01/tale-of-two-ldls.html

and btw
high choleresterol = heart attach
is one of the biggest lies!!


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
Diamonds, superfoods, Neutral,*black dots, avoids
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Mother
Friday, April 1, 2011, 6:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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you didn't mention fruits or grains, does that mean you're not eating them? they , at least grains give me high cholesterol. all carbs do, that's why I'm low carb. If you're not eating them, this doesn't help. sorry. did you lose alot of weight recently? maybe your still have fat swimming around that throws choesterol off. that might just be triglycerides tho, not sure


56% hunter secretor
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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Henriette Bsec
What are your size of LDL particles. ????
That matters more than cholesterol and numbers imo

"Small LDL particles are created through a cascade that begins with carbohydrate consumption, measuring them provides an index of both carbohydrate exposure and sensitivity. "
Read more here
http://www.heartscanblog.org/2009/01/tale-of-two-ldls.html

and btw
high choleresterol = heart attach
is one of the biggest lies!!


How does one get this test done?  I have never heard of it and would not know what to ask for or where to get it.

Also, my family has a VERY SERIOUS FAMILY HISTORY of heart disease, so like it or not, I have to focus on this as PART of not following in the footsteps of my paternal aunt, all my paternal uncles, my dad, all my paternal male cousins, one paternal female cousin, my two brothers and my sister. I am the fourth of four children, the youngest, and the only one in my immediate family not to have had bypass surgery.

My blood pressure is up too.  That is new since September 2010.  I expected my LDL's to come down somewhat after six months on the diet.  Instead they went up significantly.

Something is causing SERIOUS HEART DISEASE in my family.  Some family members are A's and some are O's.



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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from focused
I hsve had this happen to me in the past. My theory (no scientific grounds) is that when I was eating all the fats I wanted my body did not need to produce cholesterol but when I cut down on fats cholesterol went through the roof. Since you said you didn't eat much perhaps you are not eating enough. Just my thought.

focused


Hi focused,

My SWAMI has drastically limited my fats, grains and dairy.  Take dairy for example.  I am limited to 1/2 tsp of ghee or butter per WEEK, or 1-3 oz cheese per week or 4 oz milk per week.  I never drink milk anymore, I may eat a little more Manchego cheese which is a superfood for me, but not much, and I have pretty much cut out ghee.  It's not worth it to make it if I can only have a 1/2 tsp per week.     I'll have butter once in a great while.

For fat, I am allowed 1tbsp six times per week.  I only use organic EVOO or walnut oil which are both black diamonds.  Sometimes I take flax seed oil, but then I can't use oil in my cooking.  Flax is a superfood but not a black diamond.

I am allowed a 1/4 cup of grains once a day.


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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Mother
you didn't mention fruits or grains, does that mean you're not eating them? they , at least grains give me high cholesterol. all carbs do, that's why I'm low carb. If you're not eating them, this doesn't help. sorry. did you lose alot of weight recently? maybe your still have fat swimming around that throws choesterol off. that might just be triglycerides tho, not sure


Hi Mother,
My grains are so limited now and I can only have a 1/4 cup a day because I am a non-secretor.  I do eat rice and quinoa, but not every day.  I only have one grain that is a black diamond, which is artichoke flour pasta, but I have never been able to find this.  It always has wheat or corn added, so I stick with white or brown rice or quinoa, both of which are superfoods.  I am definitely low carb.

I do eat fruit.  I did mention it in my first posting.  I try and stick with black diamonds and superfoods like pineapple, blueberries or mango.  I am supposed to have three servings a day (1/2 cup or one medium/small piece of fruit) but I rarely get in three servings.  I try to at least have one or two.

I am a little person, so eating six servings of veggies and three servings of fruit in one day is a LOT of food for me.  Usually I can manage 3-4 veggies and 1-2 fruits.

Honestly, Mother, it is a mystery to me.  I have lost nine pounds since October and could probably only lose 2 more pounds, so being overweight is definitely not an issue.  In fact, my daughter, who was home for spring break and hadn't seen me since January thinks I am too thin.  My mother thinks so, too.  They both lectured me when they were here together.  

My doctor really wants me to see a local holistic healer who is very well known and respected.  She is a chiropracter but also has many other areas of interest and specializes in what is called Functional Medicine.  My doctor thinks she is perfect for me  


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Patty H
Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from 815
Just take lecithin granules. 1 Tablespoon a day to start. It's fine for O's.  It dropped my cholesterol 36 points.


I have lecithin oil.  Is that the same?


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Victoria
Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty, you mentioned Black Diamond foods.  Is that what they're called in the SWAMI?  I only know of Diamonds and Black Dots.

Liquid Lecithin is the same as Lecithin, which is in granular form.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Mother
Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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When my choelsterol was high, this new Dr I saw just sent me a letter saying they were high and wanted to put me on statins. Never asked what I ate or if I exercised or anything. I didn't care for him so I researched it. The only other thing besides going low carb that I did was exersice. It wasn't overly strenuous at that time either, I walked on my treadmill. they went from 248 to 176 in 8 weeks. Do you do any exercise? Have you googled bio identical hormones to see if there's a link there? Being a former EMT, I do know how important family history is. Sometimes it's just in the genes. though I believe being an O you have found the best diet for you but sometimes diet alone isn't enough. I would talk to the holistic Dr that was recommended and see if you can incorporate BT into his/her plan. I don't like meds if they can be avoided with life style changes but if you eat right AND EXERSICE and those don't lower them, i would consider a statin. 258 isn't life threatening alone. what were your HDL and tryglicerides? It's not all about just your LDL. high HDL is important. I'm sure your DR is being conservative with your family history.


56% hunter secretor
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Lloyd
Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty, if you haven't already you might look into niacin. Can help lower LDL. I am not fond of the idea but you might discuss it with your doctor.

If I recall correctly it is mentioned as one of the protocols in the Cardivascular book.

I am guessing that red wine might even be a beneficial for you. If so, it might be good to have several times a week.
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kauaian
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 1:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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and btw
high choleresterol = heart attach
is one of the biggest lies!!

They are trying to sell statins for drug companies.  The opposite of what your are experiencing happened to me.  I am your age but never took hormones some hot flashes here & there don't stop me.  I was told by my Dr. that I'm borderline high but the good was around 70, total came to 230 & he said no biggie.  Next blood test was up around 270 & then came BTD.  Dropped like a hot sweet potato.

Also, I eat way more meat & eggs than ever & now my cholesterol is better.
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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Victoria
Patty, you mentioned Black Diamond foods.  Is that what they're called in the SWAMI?  I only know of Diamonds and Black Dots.

Liquid Lecithin is the same as Lecithin, which is in granular form.


Yes, Victoria, sorry if I used the wrong term.  By black diamond I meant diamond.

So I could take the liquid lecithin instead of buying granular lecithin?  I bought a bottle of the liquid lecithin for my new CIA pans  

Today was a REALLY bad day for me all around.  I usually have good days and am happy but today it seemed that nothing went right    I've been   for the better part of the day.  Tomorrow is a new day, however


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Lola
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 3:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
My total cholesterol is also the highest its ever been.  It went from 225 to 258 yesterday.


FYI
that is not extremely high for an O non....
I really wouldn t worry much and keep on doing what you are doing
important is how you feel on a daily basis, and all will balance out nicely


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Possum
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 8:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sorry today was a bad day Patty H !! I hope tomorrow is better & try not to stress I believe stress plays a much bigger part in health than many give it credit for...
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Possum
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 8:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from kauaian
and btw
high choleresterol = heart attach
is one of the biggest lies!!

They are trying to sell statins for drug companies.  The opposite of what your are experiencing happened to me.  I am your age but never took hormones some hot flashes here & there don't stop me.  I was told by my Dr. that I'm borderline high but the good was around 70, total came to 230 & he said no biggie.  Next blood test was up around 270 & then came BTD.  Dropped like a hot sweet potato.

Also, I eat way more meat & eggs than ever & now my cholesterol is better.
Also one of the biggest lies apparently
& Love the "dropped like a hot sweet potato"
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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Mother
When my choelsterol was high, this new Dr I saw just sent me a letter saying they were high and wanted to put me on statins. Never asked what I ate or if I exercised or anything. I didn't care for him so I researched it. The only other thing besides going low carb that I did was exersice. It wasn't overly strenuous at that time either, I walked on my treadmill. they went from 248 to 176 in 8 weeks. Do you do any exercise? Have you googled bio identical hormones to see if there's a link there? Being a former EMT, I do know how important family history is. Sometimes it's just in the genes. though I believe being an O you have found the best diet for you but sometimes diet alone isn't enough. I would talk to the holistic Dr that was recommended and see if you can incorporate BT into his/her plan. I don't like meds if they can be avoided with life style changes but if you eat right AND EXERSICE and those don't lower them, i would consider a statin. 258 isn't life threatening alone. what were your HDL and tryglicerides? It's not all about just your LDL. high HDL is important. I'm sure your DR is being conservative with your family history.



My HDL was 68  but that is down from 71 at my last test on 1/24/11and my triglycerides were 82, but that is up from 52 at my last test on 1/24/11.  Also, just to be clear, my doctor is not pushing a statin on me.  She wants me to see the Functional Medicine chiropractor and says that we can give it a year to see if I can get my blood pressure and cholesterol under control.  In the meantime, if I want to go on a statin, I can call her any time and she will prescribe one.  She believes, however, that dealing with my blood pressure and my cholesterol in a natural way will take much longer than if I go on the drugs.


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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 3:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Lola


FYI
that is not extremely high for an O non....
I really wouldn t worry much and keep on doing what you are doing
important is how you feel on a daily basis, and all will balance out nicely


Lola, I can understand that it may not be high for an O nonnie, but I also was diagnosed with high blood pressure last September.  Frankly, the hyrdochlorothiazide has not consistently brought down my blood pressure that much.

When you combine the high LDL, the hypertension and my family history, I think it IS something I need to be concerned about.  Don't forget, I am not overweight, so something is not right.  If I was overweight, these two symptoms could be linked to that.  And my diet is excellent.  Two of my three siblings were not overweight when they had their bypass surgery.


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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 3:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Possum
Sorry today was a bad day Patty H !! I hope tomorrow is better & try not to stress I believe stress plays a much bigger part in health than many give it credit for...


Thank you, Possum.  I plan to take a nice, long power walk in the woods today with my dogs.  That should help me feel better!  I agree with you about the stress, but hey, we all have a bad day once in a while!


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ABJoe
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 4:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty,

As I recall from the top of the thread, you have been on one of Dr. D's diets for 6 months...  I am wondering if the body is now starting to clear some deposits out of the blood vessels and this is causing the higher numbers.  It is possible that since you have been on the diet for this long that some healing has been done within the vessels and now they don't "need" the plaque on the inside of the vessels walls, so the body is removing it.  While I understand the alarm because of your family's medical history, I am hesitant to be impatient with the body.  I believe it knows what is best for itself and if provided the right input, will perform astounding feats to correct problems.

I agree that you should monitor, but not get too excited while in this transition stage...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Victoria
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 4:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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I'm reminded of a supplement which Dr. D recommends in the BTD Encyclopedia, p. 566 for type O's:

"Guggle (Gum resin):  Group O Cardiovascular Metabolic Enhancement

Lowers cholesterol.  Gugulipid offers considerable benefit in preventing and treating artherosclerotic vascular disease (heart disease).  Most effective in lowering LDL cholesterol and triglycerides.  Also raises the level of good cholesterol (HDL).  

Guggul exhibits a cholesterol lowering ability unlike any other natural substance. In human trials of gugulipid, cholesterol levels dropped 14% to 27% in a 4 to 12 week period, while triglyceride levels dropped from 22% to 30%."

I took Guggul 10 years ago, when my cholesterol was a little high.  It did indeed lower my LDL and raise my HDL, very successfully and with no side-effects.  I quit taking it because my triglyceride level is already quite low and didn't want to risk lowering it too much, which I don't really know if it would affect in that way.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,120
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Quoted from focused
I hsve had this happen to me in the past. My theory (no scientific grounds) is that when I was eating all the fats I wanted my body did not need to produce cholesterol but when I cut down on fats cholesterol went through the roof. Since you said you didn't eat much perhaps you are not eating enough. Just my thought.

focused


Hi focused, I have been doing a lot of thinking about this and wondering if you are right.  I ate much for animal fat, ghee and compliant oils before I got my SWAMI.  My tests at the time were going in the right direction.  Since my diet is so low in fat right now, I am thinking that my body needs more fat, so it is producing more cholesterol to compensate.


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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,120
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Quoted from ABJoe
Patty,

As I recall from the top of the thread, you have been on one of Dr. D's diets for 6 months...  I am wondering if the body is now starting to clear some deposits out of the blood vessels and this is causing the higher numbers.  It is possible that since you have been on the diet for this long that some healing has been done within the vessels and now they don't "need" the plaque on the inside of the vessels walls, so the body is removing it.  While I understand the alarm because of your family's medical history, I am hesitant to be impatient with the body.  I believe it knows what is best for itself and if provided the right input, will perform astounding feats to correct problems.

I agree that you should monitor, but not get too excited while in this transition stage...


This could very well be true.  I have never thought of the vessels detoxing, but I imagine it is possible.

Also, I should mention that I am getting a Coronary Artery Calcium Scoring test on Monday.  My doctor thought it would be a good idea to get those results.



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Kim
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty,

Did you say what your ratio of HDL to LDL was?  Sometimes when the cholesterol goes up, the ratio is still okay because the HDL's went way up.  

Kim
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Lola
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 7:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Two of my three siblings were not overweight when they had their bypass surgery.


right, and they didn t eat right either......

my FIL had not one but 5 bypasses......he was always slim throughout his life...

he was an A though.......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Patty H
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Lola


right, and they didn t eat right either......

my FIL had not one but 5 bypasses......he was always slim throughout his life...

he was an A though.......


Well, my sister ate pretty well.  Maybe not following the BTD, but she has what I would call a fairly healthy diet.

When you say your FIL had 5 bypasses, do you mean he had a quintuple bypass in one surgery or had one bypass with five different surgeries?  One of my brothers DIED when he had a heart attack.  They were able to revive him and he had angioplasty.  The about six years later he had a triple bypass.  My oldest brother had a quadruple bypass and my sister had a heart attack and a triple bypass.  My brother who had the angioplasty and triple bypass and my sister are both A's.  My brother who had the quadruple bypass is an O.  My cousin had a quintuple bypass at age 49 and is also an O.

I guess I am not sure of your point . . .

I do not want to go through bypass surgery if I can help it and watching my CRP, blood pressure and cholesterol seem like reasonable things for me to do given my family history.  If this diet and way of life is about our individuality, then I need to take my individuality into account and look at what is working and what I might need to tweak.  That seems reasonable and responsible to me.




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Lola
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yes, five in one surgery, with my FIL

you are on the right track,
let us know how your tests go


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Ladyhawk58
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 5:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Gosh Patty, I can certainly understand your concern considering your family history - there has been an unusually high incidence of heart problems amongst your immediate siblings and cousins.

However, I still truly believe that the whole cholesterol thing is a load of rubbish and has been designed to be a revenue producer for the drug companies, who doubly benefit from the drugs that they promote as cholesterol reducing, also producing other symptoms that cause people to seek further relief from more drugs. And so it goes on...

I would avoid drugs at all costs and I have done so in the past even though my specialist advised me to take Tamoxifen after having had breast cancer, as it supposedly reduces the likelihood of getting breast cancer again for a period of time. They don't tell you that it also causes all sorts of side effects that affect your quality of life and cause many other symptoms that cause women to seek further relief from more drugs. I remain cancer free 7 years later, never having taken the drug, but I have actively taken steps to reduce the likelihood of ever getting it again, BTD being the final step and I believe the best way to help prevent future illness of any kind.

I would look at all the ways already suggested by these wonderful people, many of whom are amazingly well informed, before I would ever resort to drugs of any kind.
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Kumar
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 11:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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A few thoughts:

Dr D says the mechanism of heart attack among O's and B's follows the Triglyceride way and not the cholestoral way.
When you do not inject enough cholestoral, your liver is likely to speed up its production
Unless you take another reading from a month from now, it might be too early to reach conclusion.



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Andrea AWsec
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kumar
A few thoughts:

Dr D says the mechanism of heart attack among O's and B's follows the Triglyceride way and not the cholestoral way.
When you do not inject enough cholestoral, your liver is likely to speed up its production
Unless you take another reading from a month from now, it might be too early to reach conclusion.



Eat your grass fed beef.
Try an infared sauna for detox or sweat when you work out.
Trust Dr. D'Adamo, I know you have talked about visiting him, why not revisit that idea? Even going to the clinic at UB might be helpful.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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jayneeo
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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my friend was on the fat flush diet ...lost a lot of weight , but then got a worse cholestrol reading and called me in a panic...so I thought...hmm...fat flushing...could the fat be being carried out in the blood? She thanked me for the idea. dunno if it was true, but it sounds reasonable.
I'd agree with the posters who say eat less grain, more fat (I'd go for animal fat...ghee, or grassfed hamburger)...seems counter intuitive, but it seemed to have worked for me.
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Patty H
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 10:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo
my friend was on the fat flush diet ...lost a lot of weight , but then got a worse cholestrol reading and called me in a panic...so I thought...hmm...fat flushing...could the fat be being carried out in the blood? She thanked me for the idea. dunno if it was true, but it sounds reasonable.
I'd agree with the posters who say eat less grain, more fat (I'd go for animal fat...ghee, or grassfed hamburger)...seems counter intuitive, but it seemed to have worked for me.


Jayneeo, I think you and focused are right.  I did some research on the progression of my progress and backsliding of my blood tests.  I first started the BTD in mid-October and followed the basic O diet.  Around the first of the year, I received my secretor test and found that I was a non-secretor.  I adjusted my diet to eliminate avoid foods for non-secretors and add beneficial foods for non-secretors.  During this time, I was not limiting my fat at all.  In fact I had upped my fat by using more olive oil and I made ghee and was using that.  I had my blood tested on January 24, 2011 and my triglicerides had been cut in half.  My LDL was the same, but my HDL had increased to the highest it has been since 2006, and my CRP Cardio went from 3.9 in September to 1.1 with the January 24th tests.  Real progress was being made!  I was a happy camper.  

I received my copy of the GTD book just after I had my blood test in January.  I switched my diet to the Hunter diet.  Ordered my SWAMI and printed out my diet on 2/4/11 and began incorporating that.  My SWAMI severely limited my fat and ghee.  I followed that for two months and went back for another blood test.  My triglicerides had risen from 52 to 82, still within the normal range, but still, 52 is much better than 82.  My LDL went from 143 to 174, bumping my total cholesterol up by 34 points and my CRP jumped from 1.1, which is the lowest of the moderate risk range to 2.9, the highest of the moderate range.  

I believe this was due to the lack of fat in my diet.  I am planning on going back to the BTD and adding back more olive oil, ghee and walnut oil.  I think my liver started to manufacture cholesterol in response to the low fat diet imposed by my SWAMI.

Nothing has helped my blood pressure . . . need to work on that!

Thanks for everyone's help and support.  I still think the wheat free, dairy free, corn free diet is best for me, I just think I need more fat in my diet!!!    I also think that we are all invidivuals and have to find what works best for us through trial and error.  My blood tests helped quantify my progress and backsliding and helped me to make some tough choices.  How bad can it be, though!  I am going to eat ghee now!!!!


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geminisue
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Was your test after, at least an 8 hr fast? or was it spur of the moment?
Was it planned for?

By chance did you eat lobster tail, shrimp or other sea food, day or two before test?  What about number of egg yolks right before test (day or two or same day)

Just wondering if it is really an accurate test, think about it.
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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
Was your test after, at least an 8 hr fast? or was it spur of the moment?
Was it planned for?

By chance did you eat lobster tail, shrimp or other sea food, day or two before test?  What about number of egg yolks right before test (day or two or same day)

Just wondering if it is really an accurate test, think about it.


Yes, my test was definitely a fasting test and it had been planned and ordered by my naturopath for several months.  I had dinner and then nothing else, not even tea, before the test the following morning. I did not change anything from what I normally eat.  My diet is very consistent, except for limiting my fats due to my SWAMI.  I feel that the test results are very accurate given what I have been allowed to eat.  I followed my SWAMI quite carefully, except that maybe I did not eat as much food as was allowed.   I had lost weight and had not updated my SWAMI with my new weight.  I did that after my blood tests to see if there was a change and there was absolutely no change in my portions or foods.

I do not feel that this was an issue of the accuracy of the tests as I was definitely fasting before the tests. My consumption of eggs and seafood would have been the same as the previous tests.  I live in New England and seafood is a normal part of my diet.  We eat fish at least three days a week and this is consistent with what I would have eaten with my previous blood tests.

Also, my consumption of eggs has been the same for at least ten years.  I eat six to eight eggs per week.  What has changed is that I eat my eggs without cheese use less olive oil when I cook them.  Generally I eat my eggs with spinach or broccoli now instead of cheese.  If we have leftover veggies from the night before, I add them to my eggs instead of cheese.  I used to cook my eggs with a liberal amount of olive oil, but I cut back on that dramatically when I got my SWAMI.

I feel the blood test results are accurate and feel that I need to tweak my diet to enhance my own individuality.  One size fits none and it seems the BTD was better for me, given the results of my tests, so I feel I should go back to the simpler diet and maker sure I have enough fat so that my body does not go into fat production mode.

Two other posters helped me to see that I could be fat deficient and after all I have read this weekend, and taking into account my previous blood tests and eating patterns, I believe they are absolutely correct.  

Also, given the fact that my father and all of his siblings followed a low fat, high carb diet and they all DIED of heart disease (they were VERY dedicated to the American Heart Association Diet of their time) I have to consider the other research that has come out since their passing in the late sixties to mid seventies.  I think their diets actually progressed their heart disease.  My father was so strict with the diet that was prescribed at the time.  It was well before Atkins and the other people who began to understand the relationship with carbs and heart disease.

Fat is good for O's.  I believe mine was too limited with my SWAMI.


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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Protein FAT veg- that's your ticket!


56% hunter secretor
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Victoria
Monday, April 4, 2011, 3:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have time to go back and read the thread, but did you increase carbs in your diet, Patty?  That seems to cause more problems for type O's than increased fats.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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ruthiegirl
Monday, April 4, 2011, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If I were you, I'd probably keep on using the SWAMI food lists, but completely ignore the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomendations specifically for fat. I would also continue the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomenations for all other food categories, if they made intuitive sense.

There does seem to be an issue with SWAMI and fat portions.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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SquarePeg
Monday, April 4, 2011, 7:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Patty:

Good luck with all of this.  My cholesterol has always been high, so I'm following this with interest.  Fortunately for me, my family history isn't an issue.

Still, I wonder what effect high cholesterol has on my entire body, not just my heart.  Could it be responsible for somewhat numb and stiff fingers?  Is it the reason my legs feel wooden after a brisk walk?  Do I have a higher risk of embolism?

I received a requisition for lipid profile about one month ago.  At some point I expect that I'll have the blood drawn and that my doctor will lay into me about the 300 total reading, 200 LDL.  Then what do I do -- print out Kumar's post and hand it to him?


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think swami has a fat thing as well as carbs. A hunter that can have 8 pieces of bread and 4 fruits in a day? What happened to mild state of ketosis? Carbs definately raise my cholesterol.


56% hunter secretor
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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
I don't have time to go back and read the thread, but did you increase carbs in your diet, Patty?  That seems to cause more problems for type O's than increased fats.


No; Victoria, if anything I decreased my carbs.  And I certainly decreased my carbs from my past blood tests, pre BTD/GTD.  I am only allowed one carb a day.  I might have rice or quinoa once or twice a week.  I might have a rice cake once or twice a week.  That is it for carbs.  No compliant breads or anything like that.  I haven't found one I like well enough to use my carbs on  


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
If I were you, I'd probably keep on using the SWAMI food lists, but completely ignore the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomendations specifically for fat. I would also continue the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomenations for all other food categories, if they made intuitive sense.

There does seem to be an issue with SWAMI and fat portions.


Funny you should mention this, Ruthie.  I went back and played with my SWAMI to see what would happen if I took out all reference to any heart disease and there was no change in my ghee and only 1 tbsp of oil was added a week, giving me 1 tbsp per day.

Then I played around with increasing the frequency and portion amounts.  Obviously this did change things but it did so in relationship to all the other foods.  I tried several different things to just get my ghee and fat increased, but no luck.

I think the food lists themselves are good.  Although, as I stated in an earlier post, I eat very little simple carbs.  I also don't eat beans or legumes much, so I will eat from the food lists the things that I enjoy and are diamonds, superfoods some neutrals and avoid the avoids.  I am going to go back and look at ER4YT and LR4YT.  

I think I remember reading somewhere, maybe in LR4YT, that non-secretors actually need MORE FAT?  Does anyone know if I am correct?


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from SquarePeg
Hi Patty:

Good luck with all of this.  My cholesterol has always been high, so I'm following this with interest.  Fortunately for me, my family history isn't an issue.

Still, I wonder what effect high cholesterol has on my entire body, not just my heart.  Could it be responsible for somewhat numb and stiff fingers?  Is it the reason my legs feel wooden after a brisk walk?  Do I have a higher risk of embolism?

I received a requisition for lipid profile about one month ago.  At some point I expect that I'll have the blood drawn and that my doctor will lay into me about the 300 total reading, 200 LDL.  Then what do I do -- print out Kumar's post and hand it to him?


Well, I can understand your concern.  Kumar's post made so much sense, too.  Do you eat a lot of olive oil and oily fish?  I do that but I need to kick up my exercise factor.  That is my current goal.

I see that you live in the Northeast.  I live in Massachusetts. I just went for a Coronary Artery Calcium Screening at Nashoba Valley Medical Center in Ayer, MA.  You do not need a doctor's referral.  It costs $50, which in my opinion is, as we say in New England, a BAHHGIN!!!  Maybe you should check it out?



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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
Protein FAT veg- that's your ticket!


From your lips to my hips!  No, kidding aside, that is the new plan!


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Lola
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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2 servings of bread and 3 of fruit a day......for this hunter here, and I have no apparent health issues, anymore......
8 sounds a bit exaggerated, no?
unless you were an athlete or similar


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 10:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am no such athlete!! lol. I don't eat any grains as you know but swami says 4 servings and a serving is equal to 2 pieces of bread. It also says 4 cups or whole fruits. Seems a bit high for any kind of ketosis. lol. I just apply the basic BT principles to my swami and I'm all good I like my swami for the extra food values but when I first got it, I saw all these diamond carbs and thought 'eat often', then rethought that and all is well. Like you say Lola... protein, healthy fat and lots of veggies! I heard you!!


56% hunter secretor
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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
I am no such athlete!! lol. I don't eat any grains as you know but swami says 4 servings and a serving is equal to 2 pieces of bread. It also says 4 cups or whole fruits. Seems a bit high for any kind of ketosis. lol. I just apply the basic BT principles to my swami and I'm all good I like my swami for the extra food values but when I first got it, I saw all these diamond carbs and thought 'eat often', then rethought that and all is well. Like you say Lola... protein, healthy fat and lots of veggies! I heard you!!


Sounds like a glitch, as you said earlier, Mother.  8 servings of carbs a day is way too high for an O.

Maybe someone should alert the SWAMI fix-it people about the fat and carbs.  In the end, common sense wins out and we make our own decisions.   And like Lola says, all is good!


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Lola
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Quoted Text
alert the SWAMI fix-it people about the fat and carbs


reach Bob here
swamixpress@northamericanpharmacal.com


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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