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LDL higher after 6 months on BTD/GTD  This thread currently has 2,288 views. Print Print Thread
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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from focused
I hsve had this happen to me in the past. My theory (no scientific grounds) is that when I was eating all the fats I wanted my body did not need to produce cholesterol but when I cut down on fats cholesterol went through the roof. Since you said you didn't eat much perhaps you are not eating enough. Just my thought.

focused


Hi focused, I have been doing a lot of thinking about this and wondering if you are right.  I ate much for animal fat, ghee and compliant oils before I got my SWAMI.  My tests at the time were going in the right direction.  Since my diet is so low in fat right now, I am thinking that my body needs more fat, so it is producing more cholesterol to compensate.


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Patty H
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe
Patty,

As I recall from the top of the thread, you have been on one of Dr. D's diets for 6 months...  I am wondering if the body is now starting to clear some deposits out of the blood vessels and this is causing the higher numbers.  It is possible that since you have been on the diet for this long that some healing has been done within the vessels and now they don't "need" the plaque on the inside of the vessels walls, so the body is removing it.  While I understand the alarm because of your family's medical history, I am hesitant to be impatient with the body.  I believe it knows what is best for itself and if provided the right input, will perform astounding feats to correct problems.

I agree that you should monitor, but not get too excited while in this transition stage...


This could very well be true.  I have never thought of the vessels detoxing, but I imagine it is possible.

Also, I should mention that I am getting a Coronary Artery Calcium Scoring test on Monday.  My doctor thought it would be a good idea to get those results.



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Kim
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Patty,

Did you say what your ratio of HDL to LDL was?  Sometimes when the cholesterol goes up, the ratio is still okay because the HDL's went way up.  

Kim
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Lola
Saturday, April 2, 2011, 7:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Two of my three siblings were not overweight when they had their bypass surgery.


right, and they didn t eat right either......

my FIL had not one but 5 bypasses......he was always slim throughout his life...

he was an A though.......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Patty H
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola


right, and they didn t eat right either......

my FIL had not one but 5 bypasses......he was always slim throughout his life...

he was an A though.......


Well, my sister ate pretty well.  Maybe not following the BTD, but she has what I would call a fairly healthy diet.

When you say your FIL had 5 bypasses, do you mean he had a quintuple bypass in one surgery or had one bypass with five different surgeries?  One of my brothers DIED when he had a heart attack.  They were able to revive him and he had angioplasty.  The about six years later he had a triple bypass.  My oldest brother had a quadruple bypass and my sister had a heart attack and a triple bypass.  My brother who had the angioplasty and triple bypass and my sister are both A's.  My brother who had the quadruple bypass is an O.  My cousin had a quintuple bypass at age 49 and is also an O.

I guess I am not sure of your point . . .

I do not want to go through bypass surgery if I can help it and watching my CRP, blood pressure and cholesterol seem like reasonable things for me to do given my family history.  If this diet and way of life is about our individuality, then I need to take my individuality into account and look at what is working and what I might need to tweak.  That seems reasonable and responsible to me.




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Lola
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yes, five in one surgery, with my FIL

you are on the right track,
let us know how your tests go


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Ladyhawk58
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 5:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Gosh Patty, I can certainly understand your concern considering your family history - there has been an unusually high incidence of heart problems amongst your immediate siblings and cousins.

However, I still truly believe that the whole cholesterol thing is a load of rubbish and has been designed to be a revenue producer for the drug companies, who doubly benefit from the drugs that they promote as cholesterol reducing, also producing other symptoms that cause people to seek further relief from more drugs. And so it goes on...

I would avoid drugs at all costs and I have done so in the past even though my specialist advised me to take Tamoxifen after having had breast cancer, as it supposedly reduces the likelihood of getting breast cancer again for a period of time. They don't tell you that it also causes all sorts of side effects that affect your quality of life and cause many other symptoms that cause women to seek further relief from more drugs. I remain cancer free 7 years later, never having taken the drug, but I have actively taken steps to reduce the likelihood of ever getting it again, BTD being the final step and I believe the best way to help prevent future illness of any kind.

I would look at all the ways already suggested by these wonderful people, many of whom are amazingly well informed, before I would ever resort to drugs of any kind.
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Kumar
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 11:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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A few thoughts:

Dr D says the mechanism of heart attack among O's and B's follows the Triglyceride way and not the cholestoral way.
When you do not inject enough cholestoral, your liver is likely to speed up its production
Unless you take another reading from a month from now, it might be too early to reach conclusion.



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Andrea AWsec
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kumar
A few thoughts:

Dr D says the mechanism of heart attack among O's and B's follows the Triglyceride way and not the cholestoral way.
When you do not inject enough cholestoral, your liver is likely to speed up its production
Unless you take another reading from a month from now, it might be too early to reach conclusion.



Eat your grass fed beef.
Try an infared sauna for detox or sweat when you work out.
Trust Dr. D'Adamo, I know you have talked about visiting him, why not revisit that idea? Even going to the clinic at UB might be helpful.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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jayneeo
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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my friend was on the fat flush diet ...lost a lot of weight , but then got a worse cholestrol reading and called me in a panic...so I thought...hmm...fat flushing...could the fat be being carried out in the blood? She thanked me for the idea. dunno if it was true, but it sounds reasonable.
I'd agree with the posters who say eat less grain, more fat (I'd go for animal fat...ghee, or grassfed hamburger)...seems counter intuitive, but it seemed to have worked for me.
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Patty H
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 10:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo
my friend was on the fat flush diet ...lost a lot of weight , but then got a worse cholestrol reading and called me in a panic...so I thought...hmm...fat flushing...could the fat be being carried out in the blood? She thanked me for the idea. dunno if it was true, but it sounds reasonable.
I'd agree with the posters who say eat less grain, more fat (I'd go for animal fat...ghee, or grassfed hamburger)...seems counter intuitive, but it seemed to have worked for me.


Jayneeo, I think you and focused are right.  I did some research on the progression of my progress and backsliding of my blood tests.  I first started the BTD in mid-October and followed the basic O diet.  Around the first of the year, I received my secretor test and found that I was a non-secretor.  I adjusted my diet to eliminate avoid foods for non-secretors and add beneficial foods for non-secretors.  During this time, I was not limiting my fat at all.  In fact I had upped my fat by using more olive oil and I made ghee and was using that.  I had my blood tested on January 24, 2011 and my triglicerides had been cut in half.  My LDL was the same, but my HDL had increased to the highest it has been since 2006, and my CRP Cardio went from 3.9 in September to 1.1 with the January 24th tests.  Real progress was being made!  I was a happy camper.  

I received my copy of the GTD book just after I had my blood test in January.  I switched my diet to the Hunter diet.  Ordered my SWAMI and printed out my diet on 2/4/11 and began incorporating that.  My SWAMI severely limited my fat and ghee.  I followed that for two months and went back for another blood test.  My triglicerides had risen from 52 to 82, still within the normal range, but still, 52 is much better than 82.  My LDL went from 143 to 174, bumping my total cholesterol up by 34 points and my CRP jumped from 1.1, which is the lowest of the moderate risk range to 2.9, the highest of the moderate range.  

I believe this was due to the lack of fat in my diet.  I am planning on going back to the BTD and adding back more olive oil, ghee and walnut oil.  I think my liver started to manufacture cholesterol in response to the low fat diet imposed by my SWAMI.

Nothing has helped my blood pressure . . . need to work on that!

Thanks for everyone's help and support.  I still think the wheat free, dairy free, corn free diet is best for me, I just think I need more fat in my diet!!!    I also think that we are all invidivuals and have to find what works best for us through trial and error.  My blood tests helped quantify my progress and backsliding and helped me to make some tough choices.  How bad can it be, though!  I am going to eat ghee now!!!!


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geminisue
Sunday, April 3, 2011, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Was your test after, at least an 8 hr fast? or was it spur of the moment?
Was it planned for?

By chance did you eat lobster tail, shrimp or other sea food, day or two before test?  What about number of egg yolks right before test (day or two or same day)

Just wondering if it is really an accurate test, think about it.
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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
Was your test after, at least an 8 hr fast? or was it spur of the moment?
Was it planned for?

By chance did you eat lobster tail, shrimp or other sea food, day or two before test?  What about number of egg yolks right before test (day or two or same day)

Just wondering if it is really an accurate test, think about it.


Yes, my test was definitely a fasting test and it had been planned and ordered by my naturopath for several months.  I had dinner and then nothing else, not even tea, before the test the following morning. I did not change anything from what I normally eat.  My diet is very consistent, except for limiting my fats due to my SWAMI.  I feel that the test results are very accurate given what I have been allowed to eat.  I followed my SWAMI quite carefully, except that maybe I did not eat as much food as was allowed.   I had lost weight and had not updated my SWAMI with my new weight.  I did that after my blood tests to see if there was a change and there was absolutely no change in my portions or foods.

I do not feel that this was an issue of the accuracy of the tests as I was definitely fasting before the tests. My consumption of eggs and seafood would have been the same as the previous tests.  I live in New England and seafood is a normal part of my diet.  We eat fish at least three days a week and this is consistent with what I would have eaten with my previous blood tests.

Also, my consumption of eggs has been the same for at least ten years.  I eat six to eight eggs per week.  What has changed is that I eat my eggs without cheese use less olive oil when I cook them.  Generally I eat my eggs with spinach or broccoli now instead of cheese.  If we have leftover veggies from the night before, I add them to my eggs instead of cheese.  I used to cook my eggs with a liberal amount of olive oil, but I cut back on that dramatically when I got my SWAMI.

I feel the blood test results are accurate and feel that I need to tweak my diet to enhance my own individuality.  One size fits none and it seems the BTD was better for me, given the results of my tests, so I feel I should go back to the simpler diet and maker sure I have enough fat so that my body does not go into fat production mode.

Two other posters helped me to see that I could be fat deficient and after all I have read this weekend, and taking into account my previous blood tests and eating patterns, I believe they are absolutely correct.  

Also, given the fact that my father and all of his siblings followed a low fat, high carb diet and they all DIED of heart disease (they were VERY dedicated to the American Heart Association Diet of their time) I have to consider the other research that has come out since their passing in the late sixties to mid seventies.  I think their diets actually progressed their heart disease.  My father was so strict with the diet that was prescribed at the time.  It was well before Atkins and the other people who began to understand the relationship with carbs and heart disease.

Fat is good for O's.  I believe mine was too limited with my SWAMI.


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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 1:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Protein FAT veg- that's your ticket!


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Victoria
Monday, April 4, 2011, 3:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have time to go back and read the thread, but did you increase carbs in your diet, Patty?  That seems to cause more problems for type O's than increased fats.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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ruthiegirl
Monday, April 4, 2011, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If I were you, I'd probably keep on using the SWAMI food lists, but completely ignore the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomendations specifically for fat. I would also continue the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomenations for all other food categories, if they made intuitive sense.

There does seem to be an issue with SWAMI and fat portions.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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SquarePeg
Monday, April 4, 2011, 7:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Patty:

Good luck with all of this.  My cholesterol has always been high, so I'm following this with interest.  Fortunately for me, my family history isn't an issue.

Still, I wonder what effect high cholesterol has on my entire body, not just my heart.  Could it be responsible for somewhat numb and stiff fingers?  Is it the reason my legs feel wooden after a brisk walk?  Do I have a higher risk of embolism?

I received a requisition for lipid profile about one month ago.  At some point I expect that I'll have the blood drawn and that my doctor will lay into me about the 300 total reading, 200 LDL.  Then what do I do -- print out Kumar's post and hand it to him?


My SWAMI diet is a blend of BTD and GTD Explorer, but I'm not totally compliant.  Also I try to choose foods that have a Low Glycemic index.  DW and DD are A+, probably also Explorer.
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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think swami has a fat thing as well as carbs. A hunter that can have 8 pieces of bread and 4 fruits in a day? What happened to mild state of ketosis? Carbs definately raise my cholesterol.


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
I don't have time to go back and read the thread, but did you increase carbs in your diet, Patty?  That seems to cause more problems for type O's than increased fats.


No; Victoria, if anything I decreased my carbs.  And I certainly decreased my carbs from my past blood tests, pre BTD/GTD.  I am only allowed one carb a day.  I might have rice or quinoa once or twice a week.  I might have a rice cake once or twice a week.  That is it for carbs.  No compliant breads or anything like that.  I haven't found one I like well enough to use my carbs on  


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
If I were you, I'd probably keep on using the SWAMI food lists, but completely ignore the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomendations specifically for fat. I would also continue the SWAMI portion size and frequency recomenations for all other food categories, if they made intuitive sense.

There does seem to be an issue with SWAMI and fat portions.


Funny you should mention this, Ruthie.  I went back and played with my SWAMI to see what would happen if I took out all reference to any heart disease and there was no change in my ghee and only 1 tbsp of oil was added a week, giving me 1 tbsp per day.

Then I played around with increasing the frequency and portion amounts.  Obviously this did change things but it did so in relationship to all the other foods.  I tried several different things to just get my ghee and fat increased, but no luck.

I think the food lists themselves are good.  Although, as I stated in an earlier post, I eat very little simple carbs.  I also don't eat beans or legumes much, so I will eat from the food lists the things that I enjoy and are diamonds, superfoods some neutrals and avoid the avoids.  I am going to go back and look at ER4YT and LR4YT.  

I think I remember reading somewhere, maybe in LR4YT, that non-secretors actually need MORE FAT?  Does anyone know if I am correct?


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from SquarePeg
Hi Patty:

Good luck with all of this.  My cholesterol has always been high, so I'm following this with interest.  Fortunately for me, my family history isn't an issue.

Still, I wonder what effect high cholesterol has on my entire body, not just my heart.  Could it be responsible for somewhat numb and stiff fingers?  Is it the reason my legs feel wooden after a brisk walk?  Do I have a higher risk of embolism?

I received a requisition for lipid profile about one month ago.  At some point I expect that I'll have the blood drawn and that my doctor will lay into me about the 300 total reading, 200 LDL.  Then what do I do -- print out Kumar's post and hand it to him?


Well, I can understand your concern.  Kumar's post made so much sense, too.  Do you eat a lot of olive oil and oily fish?  I do that but I need to kick up my exercise factor.  That is my current goal.

I see that you live in the Northeast.  I live in Massachusetts. I just went for a Coronary Artery Calcium Screening at Nashoba Valley Medical Center in Ayer, MA.  You do not need a doctor's referral.  It costs $50, which in my opinion is, as we say in New England, a BAHHGIN!!!  Maybe you should check it out?



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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
Protein FAT veg- that's your ticket!


From your lips to my hips!  No, kidding aside, that is the new plan!


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Lola
Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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2 servings of bread and 3 of fruit a day......for this hunter here, and I have no apparent health issues, anymore......
8 sounds a bit exaggerated, no?
unless you were an athlete or similar


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Mother
Monday, April 4, 2011, 10:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am no such athlete!! lol. I don't eat any grains as you know but swami says 4 servings and a serving is equal to 2 pieces of bread. It also says 4 cups or whole fruits. Seems a bit high for any kind of ketosis. lol. I just apply the basic BT principles to my swami and I'm all good I like my swami for the extra food values but when I first got it, I saw all these diamond carbs and thought 'eat often', then rethought that and all is well. Like you say Lola... protein, healthy fat and lots of veggies! I heard you!!


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Patty H
Monday, April 4, 2011, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mother
I am no such athlete!! lol. I don't eat any grains as you know but swami says 4 servings and a serving is equal to 2 pieces of bread. It also says 4 cups or whole fruits. Seems a bit high for any kind of ketosis. lol. I just apply the basic BT principles to my swami and I'm all good I like my swami for the extra food values but when I first got it, I saw all these diamond carbs and thought 'eat often', then rethought that and all is well. Like you say Lola... protein, healthy fat and lots of veggies! I heard you!!


Sounds like a glitch, as you said earlier, Mother.  8 servings of carbs a day is way too high for an O.

Maybe someone should alert the SWAMI fix-it people about the fat and carbs.  In the end, common sense wins out and we make our own decisions.   And like Lola says, all is good!


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