my type A non secretor has whooping cough.

any ideas that may help him recover quicker?

thanks alot!

whole-cell pertussis (whooping cough)
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivec/config.pl?read=121482

thankyou very much!

hi lola, i had a look on that like but couldnt find much info, should be looking at a certain thread/

it is the info I got for WC, from the site.....
the encyclopedia on page 236 clearly states

Quoted Text

any cough that lasts more than 2 weeks, requires a visit to a medical professional for examination

follow pulmonary
antibacterial
allergy protocols

related
allergies
arthritis
bacterial
bronchitis
cancer lung
common cold influenza

yes, pick up an encyclopedia from the library, or get a used one, online

hi lola,
i have a very dog eared copy of the encyclopdia but we are renovating and i cant find it atm lol

Hi, Rosie.  I know how scary this can be!  I believe our whole family had it last winter.  We coughed for nearly 3 months.  I fought it with everything natural I  knew to use and still ended up on antibiotics.   If you can find it over there, there's a supplement called ALJ made by Nature's Sunshine that we have found to be generally helpful.  I'm so sorry you're having to go through all this.

thanks ribbit,
i am treating him homeopathically atm as he has never had AB's and id like to avoid them at all costs.

today is day 10 and he is actually a bit better today, in saying that though, the cough seems to come and go

For us we'd be mostly okay during the day.  The instant the sun went down we'd go into fits of coughing that would last half the night.  It helped to sleep propped up on lots of pillows.

out of interest ribbit, how long did the AB's start to work?

Do you mean the homeopathics?

the antibiotics

I had to give her antibiotics not for the cough (we eventually got rid of it, once it ran its course) but for ear infections afterwords.  They wouldn't respond to the herbal drops.  It took less than 12 hours for her ears to stop hurting.

Were your children vaccinated for pertussis? This article says that even vaccinated children are getting whooping cough.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/vaccination-is-steady-but-pertussis-is-surging/

no my kids were not vaccinated,  have never been to a GP or had antibiotics or even pain releif except for homeopathy.

i seriously think this is a 'different' strain of WC, cos my hubby was vaccinated and he is in bed sick as a dog, with WC

The pertussis vaccine is highly debated and highly suspect. There's a great book that explains it all:

http://www.amazon.com/Shot-Dark-H-Coulter/dp/089529463X

I'll check out the book, it looks good. I was shocked to read in the NY Times article that children and adults who were vaccinated for pertussis still got whooping cough. It sounds like some vaccines are just an illusion of safety?

All of them are an allusion.  They might help lessen the affects of the disease.  But are the side affects worth it?  That's the question.

As is explained in this book, part of the reason the pertussis vaccine in particular is so questionable is that pertussis is a bacteria, not a virus.  If you get a virus (or a vaccine against a virus), you build up antibodies against it and you aren't likely to get it again.  But you can get a bacterium again and again and again.  So why would you attempt to vaccinate yourself against a bacteria???

thanks for the link ribbit, a very interesting read!

so seeing as WC is a bacteria and not a virus, when people say 'youve had it once, you cant get it again' doesnt apply?

If your child's cough is beginning to get better after only 10 days it's not whooping cough.  

Whooping cough starts out as just a little cough.  It will go on for about 10-14 days.  Suddenly, they'll wake up and be gasping for air.  To put it simply the larynx constricts when they do their coughing fit and then they can't breathe because the passage way has become so small.  Your child will feel like he's dying and you will think he is too.
The most dangerous age is 0-3 years old.  Our little girl got it at 4 months.  Our other 4 older children were 5,7,9,11.  
It takes a total of six weeks for the cough to be gone after this whenever they get a cold or any kind of congestion for the next 9-12 months it might sound like they have it again but they don't.  

So, here's what happens:
They will cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough until they come to the end of their breath then they will gasp for air, panicking and dancing in circles because they can't breathe, and when gasping for air the throat is to tightly closed that it will make a "whooping" sound thus it's so named.
OR:
They will cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough the absolute worst cough you've ever heard in your life as they stand over a trash can with mucus hanging in thick strands out of their nose and mouth, for the next 15 minutes... in their sleep!

The most dangerous thing about whooping cough is not the disease it's self (unless under the age of 3) but what can result from it.  Most children will get pneumonia, bronchitis, or other such issues.  

Whooping cough comes with a bacteria that eats away the hairs at the back of the throat that normally would help to catch mucus but with the hairs gone the mucus goes straight to their lungs.  This is why when they get a cold over the course of the next year it might sound like they have whooping cough again because those hairs take time to grow back.

So, Vit. C (we used Emergen-C by Alacer, you can get it at Wal-mart) and lots of it.  They were getting several 1,000 mg per day.  Vit. A was another one that they we gave to them at least twice a day.  Garlic, acidophilus (by the boat load), Proberry, ARA6 and other stuff.  
If Vit. C is given in large enough doses and it's truly whooping cough it will help to stop the cough so that they don't loose their breath and turn blue or not be able to breathe.  Our baby girl at the time would turn blue, purple and then gray indicating that she was no longer breathing.  It's very scary.  Most babies will eventually give up and die because it's just too hard on their bodies to keeping coughing.  

DO NOT give anti-biotics!!!  Basically you're asking for any of the other issues that can result when having whooping cough.  If given enough Vit. C and other high immune stuff they'll get over it.  

I can try to compile a list of specifics that we gave our children.  We have 4 O's and 1 A and they all came through it fine and are great today.  That was 2 years ago.  Once they were done with whooping cough, they were done.  No other colds or major health issues.  

Our oldest son did have very large tonsils and the dentist was shocked that he could still eat without complaining.  He was 11.  She insisted that we take him to a doc and have his tonsils removed.  
We a Natural Path and she gave us Lymphatic Drainage by Nature's Sunshine.  It took about a month but his tonsils went down to normal size.  They were very flabby for a long time before they looked normal.



  

thanks for that info leanne.

it has been nearly 5 weeks and he still coughs during the day, but only single coughs now.

im not sure if it was whooping cough as i didnt get him tested, but i have never seen him that sick before

Last winter my husband had a cough that lasted for quite a few weeks.  I know it was the full month of December and in to January.  It wasn't whooping cough.  We're not really sure what it was.  Eventually he was fine.  It was almost like he had something in his lungs like insulation or something like that.  The cough was hard yet not a barking cough and nothing came up whenever he would cough.  
Anyhow, kind of weird.

Yep, that's a good description.  It's a pretty scary thing.

just an update... he continued his random coughing for 8 weeks and now its stopped.

i got a note home from school last week that another kid has whooping cough at school

Just out of curiosity, did he have vaccinations?

Quoted from Ribbit

Hi, Rosie.  I know how scary this can be!  I believe our whole family had it last winter.  We coughed for nearly 3 months.  I fought it with everything natural I  knew to use and still ended up on antibiotics.   If you can find it over there, there's a supplement called ALJ made by Nature's Sunshine that we have found to be generally helpful.  I'm so sorry you're having to go through all this.

You still think being vacinated against it is not worth it? My sons never had it and I won't ever have to go through that. Babies can die from it.

YES.  Especially whooping cough.  Pertussis is a bacteria.  You can't immunize against a bacteria.  The reason the others might work is because they're viruses.  Many viruses, if you get them, you're immune for life.  But bacteria you can get over and over which is why it's so ridiculous to claim its effectiveness.  The pertussis vaccine is one of the most highly-debated vaccine on the market.  Please read this book, Mayflowers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shot-Dark-H-Coulter-/360315045316?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item53e47345c4

It'll explain the whole problem with the pertussis vaccine specifically.

Babies die from choking on baby food too.  And from car wrecks.  And from suffocation.  And from formula.  http://articles.cnn.com/2010-0.....-babies?_s=PM:HEALTH

Quoted from Ribbit

Babies die from choking on baby food too.  And from car wrecks.  And from suffocation.  And from formula.  http://articles.cnn.com/2010-0.....-babies?_s=PM:HEALTH

Yes they can but why give them more ways to die when you can prevent one or more of them?
My sons were vaccinated. They did not get Whooping cough or any childhood illnesses. Vaccinations work for me.   I've worked in medicine long enough to know that vaccinations are important. I totally disagree with you on the vaccination thing..  I shudder to think of my sons dying from a disease that could have been prevented. I couldn't live with that knowledge if it happened.  I just hope you all know what you're doing.  

We're all different, and what works for some might not work for others.

Babies die  from vaccine reactions too- and that's something that's 100% preventable.

The bottom line is that vaccinating isn't 100% risk free, and not vaccinating isn't 100% risk free either. All of us need to do our own research and do what's best for our own families. The vaccine debate can quickly get ugly, as both sides tend to be very passionate about their choices. It's best not to debate it on this forum.

That's right, send in the Gatherer to keep the peace between the Warriors.  

Quoted from Ribbit

That's right, send in the Gatherer to keep the peace between the Warriors.  

It has to be better than having another Warrior join in...         

Don't shoot me! I'm just here gathering berries.

Quoted from ABJoe

It has to be better than having another Warrior join in...         

Depends on which side you're on.

where there s a will, there is a way!!!
thanks for keeping this debate cordial!
nice going all!

I am looking at this area at the moment, Emily cough seems to be getting worse, she coughed do much today that she threw up her breakfast, and then slept for 2 hours, something she has never done during the day for years. she is very pale too.

continuing to read but all thoughts welcome. well nearly all thoughts. we no longer do vaccines. and before anyone say Emily should be vaccinated against WC, she was!

I hope it isn't WC but it certainly is a bad cough, and her breathing is very laboured after atfer and then for a Long time. she has no energy and little appetite.

on a lighter note this link is amusing

posted before eye on the flu shot. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QznfG6oDDM

Forgot to mention, I tried all sorts of positions while Emily was trying to stop coughing this morning. only when she lay on her right side (her heart uppermost) with one pillow seemed to help. she was able to sleep for 2 hours without coughing, but she was exhausted. so not scientific. but iy did seem to help and worth a try.

Yes, when any of ours get coughs, we keep them elevated so gravity doesn't put pressure down on their chests.  They breathe more easily propped up.

What you want to do is keep that mucus as runny as possible so it doesn't get stuck in her lungs and turn into pneumonia.  How long has she been coughing?  Does she have that whoop sound when she catches her breath after a long coughing spell?  There are herbal decongestants as well as homeopathics that are beneficial.

The ridiculous thing about attempting to vaccinate for a bacteria is that it's something you can get again and again (unlike most of those viruses).  So you have to hope the repeated vaccine injections keep working.  

IN the case where the family has some delicat conditions in the first place I might not vaccinate either.. the chance of autism and all the other stuff is to great even if they say its not so,...

On the other hand I would need to evaluate the responsibility of each vaccine one at a time. and hope that I would not have given preventable diseases to anyone..  


P C take her to the mountains as high as you can find them.. the change of air pressure works to cut the whoop.. so scary if they can not catch their breath.. or if you live up high go down to sea level... so sorry for Emily.  

She has been bad for over a week, little sleep etc.

I think she has given it to me, or a leats i have a feeling that I'm getting sore throat. so I'm spraying diluted hydrogen peroxide at back of throat then rinsing and then doen the sink.

don't know if that enough to fight it though since it seems to cause a problem further down. ozone is not so good on th elungs so that's out.

Emily can't have garlic although perhaps it's the better of two evils. have to think aout that one.

is thee anything the bacteria really like that i can avoid?

she doesn't have the high pitched sound but it's close sometimes. she threw up after one this morning. been feeding her with sparkling water and lemon juice. and she certainly has eased a bit. but still coughing every half hour even while she is fast asleep. and she is not eating like she normally does. which really is unusual for her.

what sort of herbal decongestants and  or homoeopathic ones have you tried.

also going to study pulmonary protocols tomorrow. better get some sleep myself it's 3.36 her nite not enough hours in the day lol

well she has a healthy diet at least. she has had zero sweets, and been 100 compliat since her blood tests last week. so maybe she will be lucky. hope so, she deserves a break.

I wouldn't be worried about WC yet.  Seriously.  

Just go to any health food store and see what they have. I don't know what you can get there.  The cough syrup my biggest cougher responds best to has guaifenesin in it, which is a decongestant (drug).  It's also got tons of herbs and such to ease the cough.  BUT 2/4 (and probably the 4th) of my children also have mild asthma, which requires that they have a little extra help getting rid of stuff, like me.

P C... for WHOOPING epidodes = take her to the mountains as high as you can find them for a day trip.. .. the change of air pressure works to cut the whoop.. so scary if they can not catch their breath.. or if you live up high go down to sea level... so sorry for Emily.  

But you are not saying she whoops - so are you certain she has whooping and not just some other cough for which I would give her a decongestant to stop the gook from her nose going down the throat thus making her cough.

PC Em is O so her throat will be the issue all her life.. decongestants saved my sanity.. I use one AS SOON as the first inkling that I MIGHT get a cold, and sometimes I can even make it go away.. but still get nose and throat stuff every 4-6 month since I am 9 and more often before that age..

my grandmamas recipy was cut up onion soaked (with a little water and honey or sugar.. a spoon full of the liquid/juice/tonic before sleep..  or a little butter / maybe ghee?  

get better soon..  

follow protocols
=pulmonary
=antibacterial
=allergy

thanks all, and Lola, i have the encyclopedia at page 235/6 lol

honey is not good for Emily, super high in fructose.

can you give me other examples of decongestants please Thanks.

I now have a raging sore throat. feels like laryngitis or tonsillitis. used to get it every month before blood type diet. now fist time in a long time/

yes we O's do get this thing but my idea is to fight it from the start with decongestants.. in my case Claritin D.. works like a charm and even if I get it horse throat and all at least I feel less miserable..

BUT the whole IDEA is to dry the mucus so it does not ever go down the throat.. it prevents pneumonia.. caugh sirup for me is more dangerous as it can silence the stuff in the lungs that needs to come up, or never go there in the first place..

I just hope it's not whoooooping for you.. the wretching is horrid.. use all the stuff to rub under the nose like.on chest.. eucaliptus oil.. eat candy .. maybe sugar free ones for Em.. just to lubricate the throat..  or frozen ice to cool the throat.. poor poor you..

aohhh sorry get well soon..

Don't know if it's a pulled muscle or wind or what but Emily has been in agony for a half hour tried rolling her, winding any suggestions, it seems to hurt near her heart which is kinda stopping me work her muscles too much

DD1 just got over what I'm pretty sure was pertussis- but at age 16, it's a much less serious illness than it is in 4yos.

That whole time she was sick was like a blur, since I got so little sleep (I was getting up with her at night when she coughed- even if I couldn't *do* anything for her, she needed to know she wasn't alone.)

I kept the humidifier going in the room she slept (which was the living room for a while, so she could sleep upright) with hydrogen peroxide in the water (breathe in the H2O2 to help kill germs in the lungs) plus essential oils i nteh water too- lavendar, tea tree, and eucalyptus. She also used those oils in a "steam facial"- a  bowl of hot water and then put a towel over her head and the bowl. Those "steam facials" loosened up chest mucus, so they alwaysresulted in another coughing fit, where she'd bring up a lot of gunk and then breathe clearer for a while afterwards.

I didn't want to give proberry to a sick 16yo (dr d says not to use during illness for 15-35yos) but I did give her lots of rosehip tea (for the vitamin C ) with larch powder added. I also had her swallowing raw garlic to kill bacteria, but stopped doing that after a few days because she was vomiting a lot with the coughing, and raw garlic is hard on the stomach. I kept taking it myself, though, and managed not to catch what she had. I've also taken raw garlic for sore throats (suspected but not confirmed strep throat) numerous times, with great success. I'm also not sure how to get raw garlic into a child too young to swallow pills, or who doesnt' absolutely love spicy foods.  The garlic probably isn't practical for Emily, but would be a good choice for you.

I'm not sure what to do about he current pain around her chest. If it's from sore muscles, an epsom salts bath with lavendar oil should be soothing. If it's from trying to cough up stuff that's too thick to cough up, then a steam thingie to loosen up mucus might help (or it might temporarily hurt more, if it induces coughing while her chest muscles are still so tight.) You might do better with the bath first and having her breathe in steam later.

If she's truly in pain, and unwilling to cough up gunk as a result, you may want to give her a dose of OTC pain reliver such as tylenol or motrin. I wouldn't keep her on it  full time, but if it breaks the pain cycle and lets her clear out her lungs, it may be beneficial.

Went to doctor, he was happy to see her within a few minutes, nice guy he thinks it is a virus, but also a inner ear infection so prescribed amoxicillan. As he saw us so quickly without an appointment i didn't have the heart to refuse the prescription. but she is not taking antibiotics.

he checked her heart and it's fine, that was my only concern

so Emily is going to have a long soak in the bath with something in it tree tree oil, lavender and a bit of hydrogen peroxide thrown in for good measure - how does that sound. a full body steam.

she ate a tiny bit today which is god.  she has also started singing agin something she does all the time normally. today it's chitty bang bang!

perhaps i should start collecting all these meds they give her and give them to a charity or sell them lol and use the money to buy gluten free bread

I shudder to think of the "inert ingredients" in a pediatric antibiotic- HFCS and/or sorbitol, artificial colors, etc. Like kids need that junk when they're already sick??  I still don't understand why MDs are so quick to prescribe antibiotics for ear infections- they're not always bacterial, and even then they often clear up on their own within a few days.

She probably pulled a muscle near her lungs from all the coughing, and it was near the heart area.

keep her upright as the ear will hurt less that way..

keep a good eye on the sick ear and when it gets a bulge know that the ear drum could rupture.. so drain her ear to the side of the ear involved..

did he say she has whooping??
or strep?  .. strep can travel to the heart..

I mentioned whooping cough but he made no comment either way.

Just noticed it is Amoxicillin oral suspension SUGAR FREE, can't find the ingredients on the net anywhere