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Possum
Thursday, July 29, 2010, 3:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Hey TJ, I had no idea Haven't been around for long enough... Hope you are feeling better now? Too bad about having to change your appointment... One thing about "rescheduling" your yucky day to a Saturday Are you around ppl on the weekend?
Sometimes, (though not always) the distraction of work can help when you are feeling low, especially if it means you are around ppl...but I can't recall what you do so that might not apply


Quoted from misspudding
I'm pretty sure that Paxil withdrawal killed my grandmother.  She was either a Teacher or A-type Explorer.  At 86, she had a perfect memory, lived by herself, in Chicago.  Was active, engaged with a solid circle of friends and family.

She developed bronchitis that came and went fairly regularly.  It was after a bout of it that they discovered she had a weak/small heart (from childhood), but PERFECTLY CLEAR ARTERIES.  At 86!

A particularly nasty bout ended her up in the hospital.  The hospital put her on diuretics (to keep fluid out of the lungs to help her heart), something to help her heart not have to work as hard (maybe nitroglycerin, I'm not sure), some other minor stuff, and Paxil because they thought she was anxious?  Well, yeah, she was anxious, but come on!  This is a woman who was never really on anything except for the occasional antibiotic and vitamins, and tylenol for arthritis.  She got upset about having to take all of the drugs and quit them all, cold turkey.

After that, she was very sick.  She wouldn't eat at all and my normally very vibrant grandmother basically starved herself to death because she felt horrible.  Isn't that bizarre?  It still makes me mad.  
Oh that is sooo sad

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ruthiegirl
Thursday, July 29, 2010, 4:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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mispudding- I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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deblynn3
Thursday, July 29, 2010, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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depression can be caused by the heart med. my mother spent 10yr sitting on the sofa, like a zombe. After 10yrs they change it. She became her old self almost overnight. We all thought it was because of her bad heart. 10yrs. She traveled to see he family took grandkids to sites. I'm very anti-med. but be careful when going off stuff just incase you come down hard. Don't be alone over the weekend if that's your bad day.


Swami, 100% me..
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misspudding
Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Luckily, it's not like she was a teenager or someone fairly young.  She was 86 and had lived a full life.  She outlived two husbands.  

She was a great lady, though.  I still hope that I'm as mentally "there" and independent as she was at 86.


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
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TJ
Thursday, July 29, 2010, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Possum, I work in a factory on my feet.  When I cut the dose I will likely hurt all over and be very tired and sleepy.  Being at work would just compound the problem for me.  Deb, I'll probably be alone a fair amount but it won't be a problem.  Tonight I make the next cut!
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TJ
Sunday, August 1, 2010, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I went down to 25 mg of Lamictal starting Thursday night.  To my surprise, the "yucky" day never came.  So I'm just going to skip it tonight and tomorrow (and onward) unless I feel a need to go back to it for a little longer.  Wish me luck y'all!
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ruthiegirl
Monday, August 2, 2010, 12:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Great  TJ!!!!


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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deblynn3
Monday, August 2, 2010, 2:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT2 Gatherer rh+;Prop-Taster
Ee Dan
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Here good wishes for you and all the encouragement for good coming your way.


Swami, 100% me..
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TJ
Sunday, August 8, 2010, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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This last week has been rough.  Icky.  I don't know how much is due to Lamictal w/d and how much from the other detox stuff going on--malic acid and glutathione supplementation and eating onions and other sulfury veggies again.  I'm going to lay off the supps for a couple days to see what happens.  Maybe the onions, too.
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ruthiegirl
Sunday, August 8, 2010, 9:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm sorry you're feeling icky TJ. It probably has something to do with the medicine withdrawals, and it should clear up on its own in a few days. Taking extra care to "eat clean" right now is probably a good idea.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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ABJoe
Sunday, August 8, 2010, 10:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ,
In spite of feeling icky, it is good to remember that you are doing good things for the body...  As you reduce the pharma intake, the body will put more energy into detox and healing.  It isn't fun, but it is good for your long-term health.  Reevaluate as necessary and keep healing...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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Ribbit
Sunday, August 8, 2010, 11:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yeah....what Joe said.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

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TJ
Monday, August 9, 2010, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Haha, well I think taking the malic acid in the evening wasn't helping.
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Amazone I.
Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 8:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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what's about the use of l'tryptophane or eating more dark turkey meat....augemnt the B-complex and magnesium as well, methionine is fine too . What are your symptoms right now Wish you all the best half of mine ....

Btw.... I do have a lot of clients coming off from SSRI's here I know what to say but about be-polar dis. I'm not that sure I don't want to send you int a form of manniac phase... so I guess calming things suite more then anything else ....Have you ever given a try to camomile or even better verveine tea and or l'theanine in capsules.....

Deep relaxations and or perhaps you might want to give a try to hypnotherapy !
I heared this is one of the upcoming therapy forms with excellent results in all kinds of psyche problems.... why not.....


MIfHI K-174
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TJ
Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm doing good today, after no onions, glutathione, or milk thistle yesterday (or today).  I think it would be pointless to worry further about whether or not I'm still in withdrawal from Lamictal until other conflicting issues are out of the way.  More on the "what kind of sulfur is a problem?" thread.
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TJ
Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 11:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ok, after a very miserable day yesterday, I had enough and started back on the Lamictal.  I took 50mg (half a pill) after work.  I've still been physically miserable today, but mentally I'm coping with it better.

It's another case of too much, too soon.  I have got to get the detox and whatever other sources of suffering under control been I can lay down this crutch.
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Melissa_J
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 5:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ah, I replied to the first page of the thread before reading the second page... I think you're making a good call to go back on a half dose.  It's ok if it takes a while to get off everything, or even longer.  You're making progress, but slow and steady wins the race.  Bipolar can be hard to adapt to and make adjustments to, it takes time so give yourself time and do things very gradually.  Sudden changes, or even changes of seasons that take months in my case, can be hard to cope with, and it took me a few years of experience and experimentation to find balance...and I'm a lucky one in that my swings can be plotted on a calendar.  Of course, then a stress comes along, and it's like starting over from scratch to rebalance myself.

--
Cheering for you, and glad the withdrawal is over.  I had more trouble from paxil than it was worth, and felt better going off it cold turkey... the doctor gave it to me because I was tired, and it only made me more tired!  It's better to be depressed and awake than sleeping all day long...I don't even think I was depressed, the doctors just hadn't yet realized my thyroid was pooped out.

I did well with Wellbutrin, though it had some funky side effects.  I have bipolar seasonal affective disorder, but didn't realize it was bipolar until I got my head out of the depressed phase long enough to notice the hypomania.  By the time I'd diagnosed myself I was on BTD and haven't needed meds since then, as long as I get my exercise and have a fair compliance level.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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PrincessMia
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 12:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from misspudding
I'm pretty sure that Paxil withdrawal killed my grandmother.  She was either a Teacher or A-type Explorer.  At 86, she had a perfect memory, lived by herself, in Chicago.  Was active, engaged with a solid circle of friends and family.

She developed bronchitis that came and went fairly regularly.  It was after a bout of it that they discovered she had a weak/small heart (from childhood), but PERFECTLY CLEAR ARTERIES.  At 86!

A particularly nasty bout ended her up in the hospital.  The hospital put her on diuretics (to keep fluid out of the lungs to help her heart), something to help her heart not have to work as hard (maybe nitroglycerin, I'm not sure), some other minor stuff, and Paxil because they thought she was anxious?  Well, yeah, she was anxious, but come on!  This is a woman who was never really on anything except for the occasional antibiotic and vitamins, and tylenol for arthritis.  She got upset about having to take all of the drugs and quit them all, cold turkey.

After that, she was very sick.  She wouldn't eat at all and my normally very vibrant grandmother basically starved herself to death because she felt horrible.  Isn't that bizarre?  It still makes me mad.  

That is so sad.
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PrincessMia
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 12:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Good luck getting off the drugs TJ.
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TJ
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 2:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Man, yesterday was both good and horrible.

I have basically been in pain for like 2-3 weeks, and it was becoming mentally and emotionally overwhelming.  After taking the Lamictal on Monday, I still felt the same pain I've been feeling (I think from detox--more on that later/elsewhere?), but it didn't "get to me" so badly.  I was actually able to drag myself to the gym and work up a sweat like a good Explorer should.  That made it even worse in the short run.  I had a terrible headache by the time I went to bed last night, but I slept ok, and today I'm better.  I don't know if I can even rightfully judge if I'm feeling "good" today, but at least I'm not feeling bad.

About Paxil

From the prescribing information (http://www.healthyplace.com/ot.....cribing-information/):
Quoted Text
The metabolism of paroxetine [Paxil] is accomplished in part by CYP2D6. Saturation of this enzyme at clinical doses....
CYP2D6 is a big player in detoxifying xenobiotics.  If it becomes saturated by Paxil, it can't work on other xenobiotics effectively.  I suspect a lot of my pain has come from a sudden increase in detox activity.  Add to that how Lamictal accumulates in the kidneys, slowing down the removal of metabolized toxins from the blood...you get the picture.

Going Forward

I am seeing the Dr. today about my meds.  I am going to request a prescription for two 25 mg pills per day.  It's clear that quitting Lamictal at this point isn't a good idea, but it's also clear that 100 mg was too much, that 50 mg ought to be enough, and that I may even be able to do fine at 25 mg for now.
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 5:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I wouldn't cut back to 25 too quickly TJ. I'd suggest staying on the 50mg until you're completely past detox symptoms, and THEN cut back to 25.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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TJ
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 8:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I saw the Dr. today.  New guy (for me anyway).  He took the usual arrogant tone with me right off when I started talking like I knew something.  He gave me the familiar so-you-think-you-know-more-than-me line, and I shot back that no I didn't but I know SOMETHING.  I realized that the conversation was going the wrong way fast, so I stepped back and said I'm not here for confrontation, I'm here for maintenance on my meds.  Thankfully he took a mental step back too.  Took a few minutes to read through my medical history (which he should have ALREADY DONE, right?), and was a lot more sensible once he realized I wasn't just another dead-beat, brain-fried drug addict, but that I had an education and I was living clean and on the right side of the law and society.  (FYI this is a state-supported clinic that sees a lot of people trying to overcome drug addiction--not the ideal source of treatment, but that's what I can afford right now.)

I don't know if he was just pandering to keep me happy or if he really "came around".  I don't care, either.  I got what I came for: a prescription for two 25 mg Lamictal once daily (so I have the option to take only one).  He also advised that, since I'd been off it for more than five days, I needed to "start over" at 25 mg for a week before going up to 50 mg.  (There is a risk for a potentially fatal skin rash which is lessened when dose is increased gradually.)

In light of the things I told him about my condition, he thought it was prudent to re-evaluate me.  He did, and concluded that I did NOT meet the criteria for bipolar disorder ("you're borderline"), and changed my diagnosis to "mood disorder".

Despite things working out at the end, overall it was quite an upsetting experience, considering how I had to stay on the defensive with this guy, but at least I came away with what I needed.  But it was no wonder my blood pressure was 10+ points higher than usual when he took my vitals...
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 8:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm sorry this was such a stressful experience for you TJ. I think it's harder for doctors who work in clinics (vs doctors working in private practice) to forge relationships with their patients.

Have you decided what to do about the medication dosage? How long have you been taking the 50 mg per day? Will you start with 25 a day, and if you feel good on that, stick with it, or will you continue on the 50 for a while then lower it to 25 later?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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TJ
Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 9:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I took 50 mg Monday and yesterday.  Today I will go down to 25 mg.  I'm not sure what I'll do yet.  If it feels like I should go up to 50 I will, if not I won't!
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TJ
Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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More on this topic on this thread:
HSP back on the meds
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