What kinds of sulfur compounds are most likely to cause unpleasant side effects?  For me, MSM, eggs and onions (and possibly garlic) are a problem, and all are high in organic sulfur.  But compliant nuts, meat, fish, and poultry aren't a problem.  I'm going to say that sulfur found in proteins/amino acids are safe.  I'm sure sulfites are bad (from the reaction to the bottled lemon juice).  But broccoli, also high in sulfur, doesn't seem to be a problem.

I can explain the eggs away because of the proteins and my leaky gut, but does that have any bearing on onions or MSM?

Looks like sulfur sensitivity, in some form, runs in the family.  Last week(?) my dad had to quit taking an antibiotic sulfa drug because he had a reaction that looked a lot like Stevens-Johnson Syndrome (skin sores all over).  FYI, sulfa drugs contain sulfonamides.  My dad also has some reactions to eggs similar to mine (fatigue, depression, irritability).  I don't know if onions or other allium family plants are bad for him.

I've hunted all over Google trying to figure this about.  Maybe I'm not asking the right questions.  Any suggestions?

I am not particularly sensitive to sulfur.

For me eggs and onions are fine.

Sulfites added to food are a problem, such as:

sodium sulfite, sodium bisulfite, sodium metabisulfite, potassium bisulfite and potassium metabisulfite

Sulfur dioxide is a problem for me.

I have not tested sulfonamides.



Sulfate compound in cosmetics can be a problem for me.

I am highly allergic to sulphur, & it so was/is our my daughter - she reacted so badly to a dose of a suphur based antibiotics!! We were bathing her in calomine lotion) as she was covered in hives & swelled up all over to almost unrecognisable proportions

I get hives that turn into almost boils, from onion, garlic, dried apricots, broccoli & if I have too many eggs...(all of which I love ) & can't stand the smell of lillies..

There's a facebook group on onion sensitivity that might be helpful TJ

Sulfur is processed in the body by enzymes - one being PST(phenol-sulfotransferase). This enzyme is also used to process phenols/salicylates.  So maybe it's the sulfur foods that are also high in phenols that give you a problem because your body is using PST to process the phenols first and not enough is left over for the sulfur. (Although you mentioned broccoli doesn't cause problems and I think that is a high phenol food- maybe just an exception.)

That was a problem for me in the past and magnesium and P-5-P (the active form of B6) helped a lot.  Those two nutrients are key in supporting enzyme systems.

A search about sulfur and phenols brought up the following site and gave me a good understanding how the process works.  It gives a lot of information about food sensitivities.

http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html

Sulfur foods like broccoli, cauliflower, onion, garlic, etc are usually not tolerated by a firstt trimester pregnant woman. After the first trimester (after all the vital organs are formed) those foods usually become tolerated again. Maybe a tiny developing fetus can not process the sulfur? Maybe it's related to adult sulfur intolerance.

I'm sure those preservative forms of sulfur are bad for me.  I've never taken sulfa drugs, so I don't know about that.

Quoted from Sharon

Sulfur foods like broccoli, cauliflower, onion, garlic, etc are usually not tolerated by a first trimester pregnant woman.

I'm definitely not in my first trimester!!

Seriously, the broccoli is confusing.  I don't care much for cauliflower, turnip, or Brussels sprouts, so maybe that's just a subtle body message that it's trouble too (or maybe it's because I'm a super-taster).

Re: sweet potatoes.  I'm feeling toward them like I felt toward onion a couple of months ago.  "I like the taste of this, and it's good for me, so why don't I want to eat it more often?"  I would buy a bag of onions and use one or two before they rotted.  I buy sweet potatoes and use one before the rest are sprouting.  Apparently sweet potatoes have substantial amounts of sulfur, but there's also some fructose that may be confusing the issue!

This site suggests that thiols are the culprit.  Sweet potatoes are listed as low in thiols here:
http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/
but high in sulfur here:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5481030_foods-high-sulfur.html
maybe because of the amino acids they contain.

karen, scanning through that page suggests that liver detox will help, something I need to do anyway!

Quoted from TJ

I'm definitely not in my first trimester!!

This site suggests that thiols are the culprit.  Sweet potatoes are listed as low in thiols here:
http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/
but high in sulfur here:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5481030_foods-high-sulfur.html
maybe because of the amino acids they contain.

Which trimester does that make you in then eh TJ??!!
Interesting info re thiols & sulphur
I would highly recommend the detox/liver work!!

Quoted from Possum

Which trimester does that make you in then eh TJ??!!

I think I'm in my 142nd trimester right now.

Quoted from Possum

I would highly recommend the detox/liver work!!

I'm looking for some milk thistle supplement that is both gluten and corn free.  If I get really motivated, I might even order a bottle of castor oil and do the Explorer detox.

In other news.  I realized that sweet potatoes might be bothersome to me for the same reasons that make them an avoid for As: polyamines/bacterial overgrowth.  That, going along with fructose malabsorption, and poor tolerance of yogurt or probiotics.  I don't know that thiol content is bad news for me, but it could be for some people.  But I can still eat broccoli with impudence!

Quoted from TJ

I'm looking for some milk thistle supplement that is both gluten and corn free.

I used Milk Thistle Extract from this site before changing over to Hepatiguard from DPN...
http://store.ourhealthcoop.com/Milk_Thistle_p/mt.htm

Quoted from TJ

I think I'm in my 142nd trimester right now.

  

Quoted from TJ

But I can still eat broccoli with impudence!

Ummm... that's not on my list

I've been revisiting this organic sulfur problem.  The SWAMI heading on the "Live Foods" section for the Explorer diet speaks of "organosulfur compounds" as "detoxifying agents".  Do you think that when I eat onions and sweet potatoes that I'm just getting a detox reaction?

If so, I just need to suck it up and eat them anyway!

I dunno.. Depends if you feel it is an allergic reaction The explorer diet also limits apricots, eggs & leeks etc doesn't it?

It doesn't seem like an allergy at all.  It's a vague sort of icky, generally unwell feeling.  How's that for specifics?

.. Mmm well in that case, maybe it is a detox?! Mind you that could be a reaction to a number of factors... Thing is if it eventually passes, then you'll possibly have your answer

Quoted from TJ

It's a vague sort of icky, generally unwell feeling.  How's that for specifics?

I resemble that remark most days...

I'm just going to run with the "detox" theory, and start eating this stuff again anyway.  Maybe this is just what my liver needs!

Quoted from ABJoe

I resemble that remark most days...

Comes and goes for me.  Definitely coming instead of going today.

Quoted from TJ

But I can still eat broccoli with impudence!

Impudence is an avoid on my Swami!  

Hmm, I think I was right on about the onions and other aliums.  However, I think I have a polyamine problem, which sweet potatoes would not help.  At any rate, they are now "neutral" instead of "superfood"!

I'm going to flip-flop on onions again.  I've been feeling quite miserable for the past ~10 days, and was contributing it to Lamictal withdrawal and detox.  But this was just too much to lay all of it at detox's door.  I ate no onions yesterday, and today I have felt much better.  This after eating onions almost daily since my last post.

It may turn out that it really is a detox reaction that's just too intense to bear, but it is suspicious that I get such a similar reaction from onions as I do from eggs and MSM supplementation.  What do they have in common?  Is it just organic sulfur, or is it some specific form of sulfur, or are they completely unrelated???

Quoted from TJ

Re: sweet potatoes.  I'm feeling toward them like I felt toward onion a couple of months ago.  "I like the taste of this, and it's good for me, so why don't I want to eat it more often?"  I would buy a bag of onions and use one or two before they rotted.  I buy sweet potatoes and use one before the rest are sprouting.

TJ,  I am finding that my body wants certain foods a lot for a while, like sweet potatoes, and then doesn't want them for a while.  Watermelon is the same way, as are several other foods.  Since I started trying to eat local foods and going to farmers markets, learning what foods are in season around here, and when (I grew up in CA where food is always in season), I find that whatever is in season my body is agreeable to eat, within my BT of course.  Sweet potatoes are not really in season in NC right now.  And I really don't want them right now.  I also do not want to bake them with this horrible heat.  So it all works out.  Last year my body decided it wanted to eat them again about the time they came back in season.  I am going to assume that I could do without blueberries again until they come back in season here.  Not sure that I will do without those.  I will likely buy frozen. All that to say, maybe you could lay off of sweet potatoes and eat something else until closer to fall and then see if you have an appetite for lots and lots of them for a few months.  

Could be.  I try to leave to door open on such things, and try them again later to see if they are still a problem.  Recently watermelon is ok again, but a few weeks ago it was making me gassy/cramped.  I think I had too much gut flora.

Quoted from karen

Sulfur is processed in the body by enzymes - one being PST(phenol-sulfotransferase). This enzyme is also used to process phenols/salicylates.  So maybe it's the sulfur foods that are also high in phenols that give you a problem because your body is using PST to process the phenols first and not enough is left over for the sulfur. (Although you mentioned broccoli doesn't cause problems and I think that is a high phenol food- maybe just an exception.)

That was a problem for me in the past and magnesium and P-5-P (the active form of B6) helped a lot.  Those two nutrients are key in supporting enzyme systems.

A search about sulfur and phenols brought up the following site and gave me a good understanding how the process works.  It gives a lot of information about food sensitivities.

http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html

Was just rereading this thread & somehow had missed your fantastic link!! Brilliant reading & filed for future reference It also gives a greater understanding of the whys & hows behind the avoids for Explorers... Thanks!!

I'm definitely not in my first trimester!!

Drive, I think you have made some huge strides since the last time I saw one of your posts! I didn't know you had such a wonderful sense of humor! And even though you are still having problems you sound so much more positive! Good for you!

Further to my comments above... it also really explains why tea is an avoid for O's   I had been having the odd cup of English Breakfast tea lately & never thought to check - tea plants are often treated with a sulphur based nutrient Apparently "tea has a particular need for sulfur, over and above its function as a major nutrient for rapid healthy growth and development...
Sulfur requirement for tea is very high at 16 to 26 kg/hectare/year. But this should come as no surprise since tea grows naturally on soils of volcanic origin, created by the very same geological processes that create elemental sulfur in large amounts..."
http://www.teaandcoffee.net/0305/feature.htm

is it the sulphur or is it the high FODMAP's of onion and Garlic?

Definitely the tea, as I have not had onion or garlic for about a year now...& from my extensive research last night, after suddenly putting 2&2 together, after the effects of the tea...I've now learned more about tea
I have finally realised another reason why things hadn't been getting better lately, as it hadn't occurred to me that a small amount of tea would make a difference (well I guess 2-3 strong mugs ain't small though) & as I was not having tea every day (just occasionally when I fancied it & usually when I make it for Mr P - who shouldn't be drinking it either ) I hadn't factured its effect in, until tea was all I had last night...

Quoted from Possum

I am highly allergic to sulphur

So am I. Almost ended up on my death bed when I was a teenager, I was given a sulfa-based antibiotic.

Like TJ, I cannot eat raw onions, garlic, radishes, and eggs make me feel not too good.

However when onions, garlic and radishes are fully cooked, I am ok. Interesting.

Poor you!! Yeah those sulpha based drugs are a huge problem - had a friend lose her 2 yr old to them even though his cards said no sulpha!!! & when my daughter was 10 yrs old she had a sulpha based antibiotic that made her swell to twice her usual petite size & itch all over & yet when we took her to an emergency doctor he still didn't pick up the cause, so we gave her a couple more doses of the antibiotics before I realised *sigh*

Quoted from Spring

Drive, I think you have made some huge strides since the last time I saw one of your posts! I didn't know you had such a wonderful sense of humor! And even though you are still having problems you sound so much more positive! Good for you!

Thank you Spring!  It's good to be reminded that I've come a long way.  It's easy to forget and to be preoccupied with what's still not quite right.

Quoted from 14922

However when onions, garlic and radishes are fully cooked, I am ok. Interesting.

I seem to do ok if they are cooked and if I only indulge occasionally.  Onions are easier to take than garlic.

BTW, my dad also has problems with sulfa drugs.  I've never taken them, but I suspect I'd also react badly.

Hi Poss, the garlic and onion comment was for TJ, but interesting about the sulpha antibiotics, didn't know that.

came across the following random info sulfite intolerance which may be of use

The enzyme in the body tissues that processes sulfites is called Sulfite Oxidase. This enzyme requires certain nutrients in order to function correctly, otherwise the probability of a reaction is high. These nutrients are: Vitamin B12, Zinc, Magnesium, Iron, and Molybdenum. Vitamin B1, B6 & Folic Acid are depleted by excess sulfites so you will need to supplement these also. If you take a daily multi-vitamin/multi-mineral supplement, that should be enough for everything but the zinc and B12. Those will require a separate supplement. I use an oral spray Vitamin B12 (methylcobolamine - lacks the toxicity of cyanocobolamine) several times a day and I also get the injections (can't absorb B12 in my gut due to chronic gastrointestinal dysmotility and inflammation) of methylcobolamine. Also, you will need to inform your doctors that most topical anasthetics have unlabeled sulfites in them (carbocaine is safe).

Here are some links you may find interesting:

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/guide/sulfite-sensitivity
http://allergies.about.com/od/foodallergies/a/sulfites.htm
http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/Sulfides.html
http://www.allergycapital.com.au/Pages/sulphites.html
http://www.med-library.net/content/view/453/41/
http://members.aol.com/nosulfites/
http://www.babyandkidallergies.com/sulfites.php
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1307260&blobtype=pdf (since this article was written, sulfites have been banned on salad bars, but food manufacturers use sulfites on many foods, and some foods have naturally occurring sulfites).

The general rule of thumb is that the less the food is processed, the lower the sulfite content (usually). My own diet is restricted by other issues (food allergies, etc.), so I won't get into too much detail. To avoid sulfite reactions, I find that I need to avoid things with sulfites clearly listed on the label, as well as things containing corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, corn starch, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, citrates, sorbates, etc. I try to keep the ingredient list as short as possible.

TJ and Possum re: him being pregnant good one!

I have problems with sulphur too, definitely sulphur dioxide in wine or dried fruits and potassium sorbate (often found in HFS in goji juice  ).  

Your dad sounds like he could be an explorer, sulphur drugs are mentioned in the GTD book as being a problem in the example.  Wonder if the reaction he had could be porphyria which Drs don't often think of or check for.  Interestingly some say garlic etc can make porphyria worse too cos they increase the P450 enzymes which while it will help your liver work also increases porphyrins.  No wonder garlic keeps away vampires (myth apparently about porphyria sufferers who avoid the light and need haem to stop the reaction).

Some ways to increasing sulphur tolerance might be epsom salt baths giving you more sulphate to increase PST and help the clearance. Also N-Acetyl-Cysteine could help if it's suitable for you (also found in whey mostly in the concentrate rather than isolate).

Another idea about onions.  Isn't it a prebiotic food (like PC said a FODMAP) that probably Bs don't need but As do cos Bs have enough bacteria in their gut but As don't.  That's what I wondered for a while.  
Like you Sooks, I can't eat raw onion, garlic or radishes (why do they put red onion in salads!  ) but cooked is fine.  As soon as my gut feels out of whack bacteria wise both cooked seem to help the good bacteria fight back and cook with them lots preventative.     Eggs I can't eat too many of (at camp once we had them every day and I cleared a whole dorm out with my pungenat swamp gas) but in moderation okay.

Glad I came accross this thread. I never have gas problems anymore but recently I do. My antibiotics must have sulfer in them. My son had a bad reaction to a sulfer drug last summer.

Quoted from PrincessMia

Glad I came accross this thread. I never have gas problems anymore but recently I do. My antibiotics must have sulfer in them. My son had a bad reaction to a sulfer drug last summer.

I just checked my medication, it does not have sulfer. The problem started when I started taking this medication. I am not doing anything different otherwise. The gas has a very strong sulfer smell. I dont know what could be causing it. Unless the meds make me more sensitive to foods I am normally used to . Who knows.

Quoted from PrincessMia

The problem started when I started taking this medication. I am not doing anything different otherwise. The gas has a very strong sulfer smell. I dont know what could be causing it. Unless the meds make me more sensitive to foods I am normally used to . Who knows.

I think this shows the effect that antibiotics have on your normally functional gut flora.  You would probably benefit from some Type based probiotics to aid in the digestive process during and a few weeks after the antibiotic session.

Quoted from ABJoe

I think this shows the effect that antibiotics have on your normally functional gut flora.  You would probably benefit from some Type based probiotics to aid in the digestive process during and a few weeks after the antibiotic session.

Thank you ABJoe.

Symbi, dad is probably a Nomad.  He smokes and used to drink heavily, and worked as a mechanic around automotive chemicals, fumes, and exhaust all day!

PrincessMia as someone helpfully suggested*, when I was having a reaction to split peas (with clear the room gas - thank goodness I was home alone at the time ) it could have been that the effect of the molydenum in the peas released the sulphur stored in my system??!!
Maybe there is indeed something else in that medication that is effecting you (unfortunately possibly not in the good way that the split peas have had on me) as I am pleased to report *they must have been right, as now I seem to be able to eat split peas with no problem & my skin is clearing up...

Ok Nomad (the coolest type  ), err probably we can all have some explorer traits though.  Every type has it's downfalls with a bad environment and lifestyle.  

Glad your skin is clearing up Possum!

Had some sulphur dioxide last night in one glass of Aussie red wine with dinner (spag bolognaise sauce and mash) (and a late night playing music with family) and have a headache today, but it was worth it.  Fun and change of routine very invigorating!

Further experimenting - tried out steamed broccoli stems with my lamb chops last night...They were yummy but almost straight away I got a break out & was burping...So no more broccoli for me Between this sort of reaction & glycemic problems with some other vegs (& fruit) no wonder I don't major on fruit & veg...

Added slight complicating problem was, I had a taste of an "experiment" which was in the blender, just before my dinner finished cooking (just ground almonds & 1 egg at that stage) so I doubt that it was enough to cause the reaction & my skin had been settled all day & the night before

Sulfa-based antibiotics really bother me. Ache all over and my kidneys really hurt.

Yeah I can imagine!! Last night my chin really ached; would you believe??!! & talk about weird dreams??!! In my dream I was my daughter (& friends with her high school buddy), but at the same time, our local radio dj was my father in law...Oh & I just remembered I had one of those hallucinating-waking-up-screaming dreams too, where a large round glass object was about to fall & smash & I had to reach out & grab it!! Man ???!!!

Does anyone here know whether essential oils contain sulphur? I am researching & it  seems some may, more than others, which would explain why I can just about tolerate some being burned but can't go near others... Stupid question of course they do!!  
"In plants, the Sulfur resides in the essential oils, which are both the most concentrated and most etheric constituent of a plant. This speaks to the dichotomy of the Sulfur level, and the way in which it can sit at the deepest center of being, while also being the most elevated and immaterial..." al-kemi.com/alchemy/2010/09/sulfur-the-soul-of-spagyrics/

I am still interested in why I react more to some oils than to others... ie geranium, lemon, lemongrass, lavendar etc

Still interested in other people's opinions on this tpic...Pecans seem to bother me less than almonds for instance...

Thank you for this valuable information. However, I cant believe I missed this one. My lemon juice has sodium bisulfate in it. I feel like I cant eat anything!!! Sorry, I know many others have much more difficult problems, but this is important to me.

I am starting to not even want as much olive oil on my salad... my body is changing ( probably for the good). Back to the basics, now.

Recently, I feel like I can't trust anything on the market... not even almond butter. I know, I know, I need to focus on what I can eat

I had some butter and feel horrible, because I usually do not have dairy at all.

Veggies, plain
Protein, Plain
Fruit- ok, but need to limit or feel a sugar high...

Is this my life?

Quoted from Possum

Still interested in other people's opinions on this tpic...Pecans seem to bother me less than almonds for instance...

pecans are ok on my swami, but I gain weight when I eat them just like macadamia, plus I dont digest them well. Could be the sulphur?

You definitely initiated me to research this topic, and I am scared about what i am reading... I think I should never buy food again!!!

one more thing, raw onions kill me as well... just needed to add that one in.

Quoted from marjorie

You definitely initiated me to research this topic, and I am scared about what i am reading... I think I should never buy food again!!!

My lemon juice has sodium bisulfate in it. Majorie

And I just noticed, after you mentioned this, that a bottle of lemon juice I bought a while back also has Sodium Benzoate!!!!! Thankfully, I have organic lemons in my fridge to make my mayo today! Marjorie, I can certainly relate to you frustration, but just remember that all foods aren't completely  bad or we would all be dead by now!

Quoted from Spring

My lemon juice has sodium bisulfate in it. Majorie

And I just noticed, after you mentioned this, that a bottle of lemon juice I bought a while back also has Sodium Benzoate!!!!! Thankfully, I have organic lemons in my fridge to make my mayo today! Marjorie, I can certainly relate to you frustration, but just remember that all foods aren't completely  bad or we would all be dead by now!

Thank you and you have a good point.

What do you use to  make your mayo?

I have sent some information to my daughter on this topic.  She has always had a problem with eggs and broccoli, and even says that green tea makes her sick.  I don't know what else bothers her, but I am glad to find out why so perhaps she can further investigate.

What do you use to  make your mayo?...Marjorie

Egg, olive oil, dry mustard, lemon juice and salt. My favorite oil is almond, but it is a neutral for me.

Quoted from karen

A search about sulfur and phenols brought up the following site and gave me a good understanding how the process works.  It gives a lot of information about food sensitivities.

http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html

Wow! Over all,  I'm not sure whether I got a "good understanding" from reading this or not!   Quercetin and egg yolks are supposed to be very beneficial for some people, and this article thinks we shouldn't use Quercetin regularly. And that isn't even getting into the wonderful foods that are apparently like poison. I'm beginning to wonder if giving children Tylenol, or adults taking it, is not a MAJOR problem, aside from the myriad onslaught of chemicals in nearly EVERYTHING. I think a study should be done about any relationship between the time Tylenol came on the market and autism becoming such a problem among children. It gets even more confusing, for lack of a better word, when good foods are demonized and chemicals of every description are thrown at the population by the ton. Not that chemicals were not mentioned, but I have a strong feeling that THEY are the ones pulling this particular cart!  

Thank you Spring!  It's good to be reminded that I've come a long way.  It's easy to forget and to be preoccupied with what's still not quite right. ....TJ

That is why journaling is recommeneded so often. Actually, this board can be your "journal." Go back and read some posts from a few years back, and you can see the progress as plain as day! But it is good to still be focused on fixing the things that still bother you!

I just had a *duh* moment... It only just occurred to me today (after reacting to cos lettuce of all things, last night) that the ones I buy are grown in volcanic soil!! Lately there has been a lot more volcanic activity in the area of NZ (9 hrs north of here) where they are grown...

The fallout & even smell from the ash cloud has been reasonably prolific (even down as far as Wellington) so I'm thinking it would have added extra sulphur to the plants for sure... Been wondering why my skin had played up more (out of the blue) in the last few weeks

Plus I bought leeks for my husband recently & I swear just cleaning them & then smelling them cooking, I ended up tasting/burping leeks even without eating any

Ew!

Well that's helpful lol

Avoided the lettuce yesterday & things were definitely better, right until just after my husband had his dinner... Thought we had come up with a better solution, as I got him to prepare & help cook his own leeks tonight... But much as I tried to stay away, in a completely open plan house, I couldn't avoid smelling them, especially as he needed me to check how his cutting was going...
Then soon after he'd eaten his dinner, I started to feel my eyes slightly reacting & sure enough my skin reacted again too *sigh* (I did chop pumpkin as well for him & maybe touching that hasn't helped either?)
Aah well, at the weekend he can have his leeks & I will stay upstairs till he has finished eating & cleaning up... Especially as I came downstairs this morning & could still smell leeks - they sure are strong smelling