I've been getting those pains in my gallbladder region again... Tonight it was pretty bad, and I've been feeling sleepy and a bit sick to my stomach.

I don't know if this is part of a cleansing reaction or something, but I don't like it a bit.

Last week I went to the clinic and they said it couldn't be gallbladder because I wasn't nauseous and running a fever, so there you have it.  

Could be IBS. Could even be H. Pylori. I think you need a good work-up.

H. Pylori?  Aw, man...

I'm just saying..

Quoted from Dr. D

I think you need a good work-up.

Ron.. if you go for an upper endoscopy ( mouth to stomach scope) see if you can have the colon done at the same time.
Less anesthesia and all done in one day.
Alot of doctors won't do this because they don't get paid for two procedures  even though they proform both.   The anesthsiologist doesn't like this either.
I know it doesn't sound pretty   but once it is over you will have some answers.

The other test is an ERCP it looks at the gallbladder with a scope.

Sorry your not feeling well Ron,
I had the same kind of pain for the longest time on my right side, I mentioned this to my buddy who told me he was experiencing the same thing. He went through all of the high dollar tests which cost him plenty. They came up with nothing.
I waited it out and with some NAP supplements, and following the BT diet  the pain went away.
It took months to be completely pain free and still don't know what was going on.
Hope you get well soon.

stomach function is Teacher's Achilles heal in my book leading to problems in the pipes below...lemon and water is a must to increase stomach acid and help break down food so you do not tax the lower organs

don't listen to the doc who said it could'nt be gallbladder.....it sounds like it is  to me....(sure, I'm not a doc..lol) but I had it for yrs ...just like you said, and finally had laparoscopic to take it out. Am much better!! But I realize there are natural ways to cure it too...taking breakstone herb, etc. but I just hurt too much to try it.
By the way, if you have stones a sonogram can spot them easily, the problem is you may pass them (which you can do at any time) before the sonogram....then you're good if you stop making them...

What are the Symptoms of Gallstones?

Most people with gallstones do not have symptoms. They have what are called silent stones and require no treatment. Silent stones usually are detected during a routine medical checkup or examination for another illness.

A gallstone attack usually is marked by a steady, severe pain in the upper abdomen. Attacks may last only 20 or 30 minutes but more often they last for one to several hours. A gallstone attack may also cause nausea or vomiting, or pain between the shoulder blades, or in the right shoulder. Attacks may be separated by weeks, months, or even years. Once a true attack occurs, subsequent attacks are much more likely.

Blockage of the cystic duct is a common complication. Gallstones that become lodged in the cystic duct and block the flow of bile cause cholecystitis, an inflammation of the gallbladder.

A less common but more serious problem occurs when gallstones become lodged in the bile ducts between the liver and intestine. This blocks bile flow from the gallbladder and liver, causing pain and jaundice. Gallstones may also interfere with the flow of digestive fluids secreted from the pancreas into the small intestine, leading to pancreatitis, an inflammation of the pancreas. Prolonged blockage of any of these ducts can cause severe damage to the gallbladder, liver, or pancreas, which can be fatal. Warning signs include fever, jaundice, and persistent pain.

I never had a serious attack such as you describe....just dull pain in the right side of the abdomen, and a feeling of being stuffed....and uncomfortable....a tad nauseous....

Quoted from Andrea AWsec

What are the Symptoms of Gallstones?
A gallstone attack usually is marked by a steady, severe pain in the upper abdomen. Attacks may last only 20 or 30 minutes but more often they last for one to several hours. A gallstone attack may also cause nausea or vomiting, or pain between the shoulder blades, or in the right shoulder. Attacks may be separated by weeks, months, or even years. Once a true attack occurs, subsequent attacks are much more likely.


A less common but more serious problem occurs when gallstones become lodged in the bile ducts between the liver and intestine. This blocks bile flow from the gallbladder and liver, causing pain and jaundice. Gallstones may also interfere with the flow of digestive fluids secreted from the pancreas into the small intestine, leading to pancreatitis, an inflammation of the pancreas. Prolonged blockage of any of these ducts can cause severe damage to the gallbladder, liver, or pancreas, which can be fatal. Warning signs include fever, jaundice, and persistent pain.

That's pretty much what mine were like. They lasted for hours, sometimes a day of two. I had about 5 attacks before a stone got stuck in the bile duct.

All the attacks were very painful, with lots of back pain and vomiting. (I'm talking wishing you would just die and get it over with pain. And I have a high pain threshold) Not fun at all. The last of course was the worst and made me go to the emergency room. I ended up with severe pancreatitis with the fever, jaundice and the worst pain I have ever had in my life. I had hundreds of tiny stones. I thihk it is the small ones that cause the most trouble.

I can't say I miss my gallbladder  

I hope you are able to find the problem Ron, and get whatever it is taken care of.

Well, if it's any consolation, h. pylori wouldn't require anything stuck down your throat to test for...

It could be gallbladder, if you'd had a fever that could have been an emergency...maybe emergency was all they were looking for?  There are a few different tests they can run for that as well, without requiring an endoscope.

My niece's gastroenterologist put her on a course of a specific type of antibiotics (Linnea, or something), as it was the fastest way to test for parasites and such.  (She had reflux and lots of tummy aches) It worked and she didn't need any further tests.  A good gastroenterologist can be a great thing...a bad one is not so great though.  Try to find a good one.  My son (probable teacher) probably needs that same treatment, but lately has been feeling pretty well.

Gallbladders are pretty expendible in my family, I'm one of the few over 30 that still has mine.  Often they just aren't functioning properly, so they get them out and feel better. I wasn't that eager to go under the knife, so I just clean up my diet a bit if I start to feel any trouble (like tiredness or trouble digesting heavy foods).

hi Ron, I'm so sorry for you that you aren't well....but Peter is right about his suggs...ther's a bloodtest just taken a drop of your fingerberry and whithin 5 Minutes it is known if the
pains are made by Pylori; worth to go and check it...and then would go also for other tests .......did you went for the gallbladder flush .....

I do get a weird tingling, throbbing sensation between my shoulderblades after I eat...

I hope I don't get jaundice.  When my grandmother was dying of pancreatic cancer, she turned school bus orange all over, from jaundice.

I have been getting headaches and all that.

The problem is that I don't have insurance, so going to see a decent doctor is out for the time being.  I'm in school -- tiresomely, yet again -- but I don't have the kind of insurance that allows for that.  

I suppose I could go to one of those free Soviet-style clinics, but I'll almost certainly get a good-enough-for-government-work caliber of diagnosis and treatment.

Quoted Text

All the attacks were very painful, with lots of back pain and vomiting. (I'm talking wishing you would just die and get it over with pain. And I have a high pain threshold) Not fun at all. The last of course was the worst and made me go to the emergency room. I ended up with severe pancreatitis with the fever, jaundice and the worst pain I have ever had in my life. I had hundreds of tiny stones. I thihk it is the small ones that cause the most trouble.

Heidi,

I was doing some digging on gallstones, and I found somewhere that talks about blood type "A" having a significantly higher rate of them than other types.

What's more, I wouldn't be at all surprised if A-nonnies (who I am insistently assured are not, in response to an offhand remark of mine, the "cursed of the earth") have a higher incidence of them.

I just finished reading a book called "The Calcium Bomb", and it talks about the discovery of a new species of calcium-enshrouding nanobacterium that actually causes artery obstruction and hardening through their enshrouding process, as well as stones of the gallbladder and kidneys.  

The treatment is a blend of natural digestive enzymes and EDTA to dissolve the shrouding, and a dose of tetracycline to finally kill off the nanobacteria.  It's been going on for over 10 years now and, according to reports, it's achieving enormous improvements in seemingly hopeless, recurring cases of calcification.

Even NASA and the NIH are heavily involved in it now... it's a quiet breakthrough headlined by a Tampa, Florida-based company called Nanobac.

would you mind to observe your thoughts' a bit ..... this isn't meant to offend you at all...what I observe is that you suggest always to develop  other person's sickness .... in a strange form of repetitions....Ronibear...you are you and not the other person; so better to go for a big checkup and then yuck it is....perhaps a bit of hypericinum would do the trick as well   and a biiig hug and   to solve your fears  

What about those gallbladder flushes? Could they help?

My mother had h. pylori. Her symptom was a burning sensation/pain on one side of her stomach. Do you have that?  It's a simple blood test.

Hi Isa and Ron,
I really know the risk of hypocondria, to worsen or invent symptoms reading much medical research and health stuff ! I was taught by my father, an oncologist doc, that is a phase that medical school students deal with in the beginnning of their studies ! that was useful to know for me together  to be reared as first child that should stay well, perform at my best and  be of exemple to my sister and brother
Maria Giovanna

IceB...hope you feel better soon.  

MG... I don't thought about hypochondria but merely about fears to live or fears not to be alife ......running free flottant
fears.....

Isa,

It's possible that I do have hypochondria; you're right.  But I do have the pains I'm describing.

Kind of ironic...  If you are having pains in your gallbladder region (upper R quadrant) that is called your hypochondriacal region (beneath the ribs)...    

So you are having hypochondriacal pain that may be partially hypochondriacal (ie: worry).

My 81 year old dad had his gallbladder removed quite a while back.  It turned out that he had these wierd calcified stones that blocked his gb and they ended up taking out part of his liver and intestine also.  But I think he was in his 70's when this occurred.  He is a type A, rather hypochondriacal also.  He's always going to the doctor,but then again, he's not well.  Diabetes, cardiac/blood pressure problems, and the weight problems that underly it all.  He's always been a big eater.  Grew up in a poor italian home in Jersey City, NJ....eating lots of pasta and wheat based foods.  When I last visited, I looked at his fingertips to see if he had white lines.  I hate to admit it, but he had the wrinkliest lines in his prints.  I am "positive" he is an undiagnosed celiac....I too have those lines, but I am type O+....
Icebear, are you a wheat eater, or a wheat avoider?  Just wondering?
Definitely go get tested for that gall bladder though.  I had some pains there a few years back during a move from one home to another. The trigger seemed to be varnish work going on in the kitchen....and stress.  I did a gall bladder flush and it really did help.

Sorry you're not feeling good, Ron, good luck and feel better. Sounds like gallbladder to me, but I'm no dr. either. I can't think of anything besides trying Chanca Piedra (royal break stone) which worked wonders for me. Look around for a lower-cost clinic, you can probably find a decent one.
Hugs.
Dr. D's right, you need a good checking-up.

Quoted from 521

I do get a weird tingling, throbbing sensation between my shoulderblades after I eat...

I talked with my massage therapist the other day because I get pain between my shoulder blades when I eat the wrong foods (gluten and dairy). She said that the area between the shoulderblades (in the acupuncture philosophy) is where the stomach and pancreas meridians (I think that is what she meant) are. If she is right, that might be interesting for you because it would relate to your problems in the abdomen.
I would follow Dr. D's advice and get a good checkup.

Ron, I didn't denied your pains there.....and I won't do any further flushes either.... perhaps can you give a try for
a good osteopathic therapist and or someone really specialized in acupunctur.....The bile and liver region is also the indice of depressions......when liver-chi is disturbed.....sorry but I don't get a pic of you as somebody of hyperchondric....merely a prob. in a psychosomatic issue coz of long distance suffering and not havin solved the issue since.....I can't detect any *lust* in your suffering.....

Ron  and Isa  it is not a question of whether Ron  Isa or I are hypocondriac but if a tiny bit of this mind set (all we have all the colors in our soul or mind) can surface,  may be as Isa says, for a long passed suffering  still touching us !
Maria Giovanna

sorry but here is a big misunderstanding...I never said that I am or ever was hyperchondriac..... .... I'm only a nonnie...

Quoted from Amazone I.

....The bile and liver region is also the indice of depressions......when liver-chi is disturbed.....

I wish I could say that I have no idea what you are talking about... but this liver/depression connection is really giving me problems. My liver chi must be very disturbed!

I'm not a hypochondriac either, but sometimes it feels like for every two steps forward, I'm taking three steps back - especially in the mood department. I've been fairly compliant on the Nomad diet for several weeks now, but I've also been working to detox from heavy metals. I'm about ready to cave and just live with the metals if I can't work through this depression! I can't imagine how doubly bad I would feel if I weren't at least eating right! My ND has counseled me to "hang in there", promising that it will all be better...  

Any and all suggestions gratefully appreciated! I've got the omegas and the B vitamins covered, plus, plus...  but I don't see any L-Tryptophan on the labels....  what else?? (Forgive me if they are already here... too mentally tired to hunt for them...)
Thanks!...  

pixelland, I think that l'tyrosine 2x500mmg's daily (not in the evening please) somme milk thistle and 2-3x500mg's daily of l'arginine can do the trick

btw...the liver stands for heavy feelings....emotions....
also our mind has to get detoxed from time to time....and yessss of course is 5HTP from the plant or the aminoacid l'tryptophane
very usefull against depressions as well..... and please don't feel offended from the words I choose, it wasn't meant at all and also please be patient....detox & heavy metals....takes more than a while  ......
you body needs  time for adjustements....we can't expect miracles after several days or weeks, but you can expect changes after 3 to 9 months and then body is able for the biiig cleanse.... that's my own experience and also with a lot of patients I introduce to BTD.....since years.....

Thank you Isa....

I've got to dash off to work, but I took a quick look at my supps and don't see any of the things you suggested. My ND also mentioned milk thistle!..  Great minds think alike...  

I promise I won't give up.... absolutely no offense taken...    just gratitude...

soon...

I will add my 2 or 3 cents...
My parents both had their gall bladders removed in their 50's.
I stil have mine.  Years later, as I got to thinking about it;  my mom was always baking...always.  This meant lots of wheat and who knows what kind of fat.  It was all lard back when.
I was not too much for baking.  I preferred the fresh fruit rather than having it baked into something.  In some circles, I was not considered to be a 'good' cook.
Today I only bake flax crackers, and I'm still not considered to be a 'good' cook in most all circles.
namaste
ruthie

I always thought I'd be a good cook as I got older, but I'm not either. It usually isn't that healthy to be a good cook!!

Ron, when I had gallbladder irritation, I had sternum pain. You can imagine how scary that was, thinking it could be heart trouble! Gallbladder pain radiates all over the place.
Also, to heal gallbladder problems, it was suggested to have less protein. Maybe you are detoxing from all that "O" protein in your own unique way!!
As I often suggest fasting, even if you don't fast, just eat as lightly as you can for a day or so. If you can do compliant juices, your system may clean up a little.
Let us know what's up!
Mrs "T"   O+

I was the exact same way, it was the fatty foods (Cheese, peanut butter) and coffee that got to me.  Most of my life I had bad posture. My spine was out of whack and a chiropractor helped me out and now I don't get that pain anymore.  How's your posture, you say you get tingling sensation betweeen your shoulder blades, is your spine sensitive there and are your muscles sore, tender, achy there?  If so I suggest first of all start doing yoga, don't jump into the hard positions but the stretches you want to do are the ones that stretch out the spine and neck.  The position that may help you, as it has helped me greatly would be the shoulderstands.  If yoga doesn't fix it I'd see a chiropractor.  You can try stinging nettle also for the gallbladder.  

I don't know if you have H pylori or not but I had myself checked and I did not have it.  

Oh yeah and eating more cooked foods may help.

who has done the oxytest?
http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/.....g-your-free-?blog=26

I did it seven year ago  and I was helicobacter pylori free, my mother treated 15 year ago with the conventional therapy and had  a long relief. with BTD started a little bit after  this test, I guess I am still free. I just help my stomac with lemon juice  and fresh ginger.
Maria Giovanna

Quoted Text

Ron, when I had gallbladder irritation, I had sternum pain. You can imagine how scary that was, thinking it could be heart trouble! Gallbladder pain radiates all over the place.
Also, to heal gallbladder problems, it was suggested to have less protein. Maybe you are detoxing from all that "O" protein in your own unique way!!

Yes, yes!  I was getting sternum pain like mad!  But now it's gone away, for the most part... I haven't had the sternum pains in awhile, but now I have this tingling, slightly throbbing region high in my back, between my shoulder blades...

I was getting small, lancing pulses of pain in my gallbladder region, but now they're mostly gone.  I'd been taking an EDTA/bromelain/guggul gum/astragalus/magnesium citrate set of pills to try and break up any stones I might have had and then laying on my left side at night to try and get the stones to dissolve and the gallbladder ducts to relax, so that any stones might move along the duct and then outward, up and to the left.

I got a few small pulses of pain in the region while I was on my left side during that time, but now the pains are gone, and all I'm left with is a tingling kind of numbness or something between the shoulder blades.

...Looking back, I was eating grass-fed beef and lamb like a maniac, so that's almost certainly what I'm detoxing from.

me too, me too M G ....and Betain HCL....


Ronilein...this is the parte we use to put down our agressions.... just between our shoulderblades....or even a bit more up or down....do you know anybody who uses this new method of
taping...meditaping ... look here http://www.schmerzundtape.de but there's also an
english version I am more than convinced that this might help you as it did whithin hours for me..... wish you all the best....
amicalement yours Isa


p.s.
I repeat...acupuncture or meditaping goes similar ways

Quoted from 521

Yes, yes!  I was getting sternum pain like mad!  But now it's gone away, for the most part... I haven't had the sternum pains in awhile, but now I have this tingling, slightly throbbing region high in my back, between my shoulder blades...

I was getting small, lancing pulses of pain in my gallbladder region, but now they're mostly gone.  I'd been taking an EDTA/bromelain/guggul gum/astragalus/magnesium citrate set of pills to try and break up any stones I might have had and then laying on my left side at night to try and get the stones to dissolve and the gallbladder ducts to relax, so that any stones might move along the duct and then outward, up and to the left.

I got a few small pulses of pain in the region while I was on my left side during that time, but now the pains are gone, and all I'm left with is a tingling kind of numbness or something between the shoulder blades.

If I am not mistaken, you should be laying on your right side to help the gallbladder.  I remember this from the liver/gallbladder flush as this is the side I always sleep on so it made it quite easy.

Debra

Quoted Text

If I am not mistaken, you should be laying on your right side to help the gallbladder.  I remember this from the liver/gallbladder flush as this is the side I always sleep on so it made it quite easy.

I read that before in one of the gallbladder flushes, but when I looked at an actual anatomy book, it shows that the gallbladder actually opens into the common bile duct in a direction that, just before the cystic duct, is first up and to the left, not the right:





Why these flushes say "sleep on your right" is beyond me.  It's got to be a mistake, a reversal, so I sleep on my left, to aid the more  downward flow of gravity, out of the gallbladder.  

The drainage direction is first up towards the head, and then down towards the feet, but it's always to the left, never the right.  In fact, I can't imagine how bile gets stored in the gallbladder in the first place, because it looks like it actually has to go backwards from the direction of usual flow.  I suppose there's some kind of autonomic clamping off at the very end of the bile duct that forces bile to back up into the gallbladder.  

In fact, there's something at the very end of the bile duct, where it meets with the pancreas' own drainage duct and empties into the duodenum of the small intestine.  Apparently, it's called the "Sphincter of Oddi".  My guess is that it closes at times and causes all the various digestive juices to back up a bit, and that that's how bile gets stored in the gallbladder:



...But, anyhow, because of all this, I think that the correct side to sleep on must be the left, then... I can't see any other reasonable instruction.  As to why the protocol says "left", well, the only thing I can think of is that there seem to be people who habitually confuse their left and their right directions.  I figure one of them probably wrote the original protocol, and everyone else just repeated it out of naive acceptance that it came from someone who doesn't reverse their directions.

Where's Heidi when you need her?

Thanks for the great description and pictures Ron.  Such a learning place this is.

Debra

I see the GB to the right.....like Debra said
check the picture of the man......
or am I missing my sense of orientation?

how about sleeping upside down, head first.....
there s gravity for you!!

Quoted Text

I see the GB to the right.....like Debra said

Yes, that's right -- the gallbladder is on the right side of the body, but my point is that, since that's the case and, if you want the gallbladder to expel its contents, it makes more sense to lie on your left side, so that the gallbladder's opening is pointing downward, rather than upward.

If you lie on your left side, the drainage process would be working more with gravity, instead of against it.

Try to picture the man in the figure lying on his right side, and you'll see that the gallbladder's opening is pointing upward, which makes emptying it harder.  But if you picture him lying on his left side, you'll see that the gallbladder's opening is now pointing downward, which makes draining it easier.

great pics Ron....that made me think that when one of the involved organs is inflammed the other one mihgt be involved too; as being a nonnie we always have to look out for pancreatic issues as well; A's and fats.... not everytime that easy especially not for the A1' s.

But the symptoms you describe let me think about pylori... as well...

a head stand would be more effective, taken your logic!

Quoted Text

a head stand would be more effective, taken your logic!

Well, only in the very short run... standing on your head would only help to get the stones just out of the gallbladder, but then you'd have the same problem of working against gravity, because then the stone would have to be going upwards to go through the common bile duct because you'd be upside-down...

A handstand would be interesting, though...     

hope we both are simply kidding!!!

Quoted Text

hope we both are simply kidding!!!

No, I'm serious!  It's okay to stand on your head!    

Ron, I'm getting this mental image of you standing on your head, shaking your body and telling your gallbladder to stand and deliver!

Quoted from 521

No, I'm serious!  It's okay to stand on your head!    

Just not somebody else's head.

Quoted Text

Ron, I'm getting this mental image of you standing on your head, shaking your body and telling your gallbladder to stand and deliver!

Hahahahahaha... Yep!  Where my body is concerned, I am Jaime Escalante.



...or maybe I'm General Patton!

that's one of our biggest problems, intp/j often just relay in ..on..upon...and what else.....their heads
instead of acting    ....... described in the enneagram  

Ron, add some bearded seal to your diet and see if it helps.

http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/polar-bear/diet.htm

Quoted Text

Ron, add some bearded seal to your diet and see if it helps.

Bearded seals?  

They've always been cute, but now... they're also tasty!

I believe that lying on the right side is to help draw stuff we want moved down the digestive tract. The gallbladder has its own muscle structure, I think, because it squirts out bile as needed. It's my understanding that some of the pains occur because the duct is squeezing but blocked to one extent or another.
When I've had gallbladder issues, lying on my left side was just not an option, it made me feel too sick, so I was always more comfortable on my right. Also, (upper) digestion is supposed to be faster & more efficient if you lie on your right.
Just my 2 cents....
I used to be able to do a yoga headstand...haven't tried lately!
Good luck, Ron!

There can be various types of stones in the gallbladder and the biggest danger of the flush is that some medium-sized stones get lodged in the duct, which is an emergency.  

Large stones are too large to ever pass through the duct and therefore will remain in the gallbladder (usually causing no symptoms) or over time may be broken down until they dissolve or are small enough.  Small stones and sand can be expelled via the normal function of the gallbladder, which has smooth muscle that is stimulated to contract when we eat something with fat.  The small stones get ejected in the bile and eliminated via the colon.

Therefore, lying on your right side minimizes the danger of dislodging stones that may lodge in the duct but still allows the passage of small stones and sand, which is the objective of the flush.

BTW, this is the site with all the details of the gallbladder flush and there are lots of FAQs there.  You can also contact Julia with questions.

Sometimes there are reasons for instructions even if we don't understand them.  In this case, Julia is very thorough and has many years of experience with this flush and with TCM in general and therefore I would highly doubt the instructions to lie on your right side are a typo.  And since she is available as a resource, I would just go ahead and confirm with her.

Quoted Text

Therefore, lying on your right side minimizes the danger of dislodging stones that may lodge in the duct but still allows the passage of small stones and sand, which is the objective of the flush.

Now that is a logical explanation!

That's what I'm talking about!  Three cheers for Dr. Whimster!

Quoted Text

Sometimes there are reasons for instructions even if we don't understand them.

True... but I have this one little personality glitch.  And I'm sure some might argue that I have more than one.      

Quoted Text

In this case, Julia is very thorough and has many years of experience with this flush and with TCM in general and therefore I would highly doubt the instructions to lie on your right side are a typo.  And since she is available as a resource, I would just go ahead and confirm with her.

I'll check her page out, but I don't think her page was what I had originally consulted.

Just been reading about Nanobac, wondered if anyone else had?

no info in the search feature so I'll link a paper I was reading.

http://www.prostatitis.org/pdf/shoskesurology.pdf

also wondered how Ron was getting along?