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Rose3408
Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hello Ladies!

Are there any "menopausal" women presently following the BTD who are also taking HRT?  

I have been religiously following Dr. D's menopausal protocol and still experincing the hot flashes, night sweats, brain farts, memory problems, insomnia, etc and of course massive hair loss.

I'm told the stress and lack of estrogen is causing my hair loss.

It was suggested I start taking HRT, in particular Vivelle.dot/Prometrium, which is a more natural form of HRT.  None the less, it still scares me.

So I'm trying find other women who are presently going through those awful menopausal symptoms and what, if anything is working for them.

Your input is so greatly appreciated.

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Lola
Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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look into natural Hormone replacement therapy.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Rose3408
Monday, August 4, 2008, 2:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Lola!

Been there. . . done that.  Hence my request.  

I've looked in "natural hormone therapy" for the last 7 years, at the onset of menopause.  Talked to a few ND's who wanted to perscribe natural estrogen/progesterone but were not all that knowledable about it and stated, "let's just try it."  So I gave it a try.

to be honest, I didn't feel comfortable enough in their confidence and knowing how to perscribe it.  And in speaking to other women it appears they came across the same situation or tried the natural creams and they really didn't work.

With that said, and since I trust everyone's input on this forum, I thought I would try to speak to a few ladies that have tried Vivelle.dot/Prometrium.  

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Lola
Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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a compound chemist did not design your personal natural hormone cream according to your specific hormone level results?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Rose3408
Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Lola - Yes, is was a compounding Pharmacy.  Actually, 3 pharmacies to be exact.

In the determined quest to find a "good & knowledgable" MD or ND, I saw three.  Each spoke about hormones and treating menopause "naturally" and perscribed estrogen/progesterone in a compounded cream, however they didn't work.  

When I spoke with my gyno last week she said the compounding HRT are very hard to control and monitor and don't really work.  When I spoke of my desire for a mroe "natural" form of HRT, she mentioned the Vivelle.dot, which comes from a natural source.

With that said, I am trying to find some other women on this site who are presently using it, and there success.

It's amazing, we all seem to know of compounding HRT, and yet we cannot find one single person who successfully uses it?
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Beouemom
Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rose;

   I took a saliva test in the fall of 05 to have a HRT  prescribed for me.  I have been on the same dosage since. It comes in a tablet form, I take under my tongue twice a day.  About a year ago I found out the cream was cheaper so tried it, but it did not work as well for me.  Now I am in the process of going off the tablets.  Will be cutting the dosage in 1/2 and see how that goes.  Perhaps you would like to try the tablets.  Mine has estrogen and progesterone, testosterone and something called BIEST.  It has worked for me. I had a hysterectomy in 98.  They left the ovaries but about a year later tests showed they were no longer working.  I started a synthetic HRT then and was on it till Jan 05. I went off it but still had hot flashes so went for the bio identical.  
   Write me a PM if you have more questions.  I have no info on the Vivelle.dot.  Sorry


Beouemom sounds like bay way mom and I think Colorado is a great place to live.  
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pixelland
Monday, August 4, 2008, 2:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1740
It was suggested I start taking HRT, in particular Vivelle.dot/Prometrium, which is a more natural form of HRT.  


Hello Rose.....  I've used Vivelle.dot, but I am unfamiliar with this particular product. The only information I can find online about Vivelle is for an estrogen-only patch. As far as it's being "natural", they call it "chemically synthesized from a plant source". Hmm...  not exactly natural, but I do like that better than hormones that are sythesized from horse urine...

Therapies vary depending on whether your menopause is from age or surgically induced. I fall in the latter category, having my "total" hysterectomy at the age of 25. In order of trial (and error) over the last 23 years I've taken pills, then the first patches on the market, then monthly injections, then back to trying the newer patches, and now presently using the latest gel.

I am now reaching the age where I worry more about what I put in my body...  so I've been working with a ND. I did blood work last week, and meet with her tomorrow to review all my tests and hopefully come up with a new protocol. I'm a bit worried that somehow I ordered the wrong test, since they did serum instead of saliva... but we talk about so much when I see her that I'm not sure at this point. It wasn't cheap, that's for sure!  

As far as pros and cons re: Vivelle....
I felt the dosage was more consistent day-to-day than the monthly injections, but can be greatly affected by hydration.
Practical application? I didn't really like wearing a "bandage" of sorts all the time. The application site needs to be really clean and oil-free, so you have to be careful with lotions, etc. They also tend to leave an adhesive residue, and all the suggested substances for removing the sticky stuff are not things I like to put on my skin and into my body. (like WD40!!)

Regarding effectiveness... Consistency with any of the choices is key. Patches have been better than pills and injections. The gel seems to work well, but I haven't studied what's in it (playing ostrich on that one). The expense (insurance won't cover it) and distrust of modern pharmacology prompted me to look for a better, more natural solution for the next 20+ years of my life...

Hope some of this helps... I'll chime in again after I meet with my ND....


"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
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Lola
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send jeanb a PM.....
I believe she once blogged about natural hormone treatment and compound chemists......having great results.

can t find that blog, she might send you a link or tell you about her experience.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Mayflowers
Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I believe the FDA closed down the compounding pharmacies this past spring. Thanks to Wyeth complaining. I don't know how they'll get around it..I tried BHRT. It made me gain 10 pounds. I went off of it and now I just use soy, like Revival soy or Genisoy. Right now it's Genisoy.
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pixelland
Monday, August 4, 2008, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Any suggestions for those of us who are supposed to avoid soy??


"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
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Chloe
Monday, August 4, 2008, 6:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rose...and to every type A woman needing menopausal advice, I want to share my story.
I've done this before but Rose might have missed this.  So, once again, here it is.

I've been there and done the menopausal symptoms years ago...night sweats and mood swings,
and a well intended alternative MD prescribed I take bio identical hormones...This is when I
literally went berserk with more and more symptoms as I feel my body was sending me
messages about changing something else...NOT adding hormones of any kind... and if  were to share some wise advice with you it would be to avoid using any type of hormone therapy regardless of who tells you to take it unless you're dealing with a doctor who has a 100%
success rate in treating menopausal symptoms.

Most women are overloaded with way too many xenoestrogens from environmental pollutants,
so taking estriol, estridiol and estrone just adds more estrogen, even though it appears
to be natural.  Progesterone had me having constant break-through periods that went on
for weeks and weeks until I was exhausted.  ALL with the help of an MD who kept saying
"give this some time".  He didn't address my liver...my need to detox from the estrogen
dominance I already had.  I need for you to know that if the liver can't get rid of environmental
estrogens that have been piling up for years, added bio-identical hormones is going to give
you additional estrogen it can't get rid of either.  Progesterone's job is to naturally break
down the uterine lining each month.  When ovaries stop producing adequate progesterone
at menopause, the last thing the body needs is more estrogen from natural hormones..
This is exactly where I went wrong.

As a type A where ERT isn't indicated, I suggest you take this very seriously. We are THE blood type most likely to have breast cancer at any age so, I would seriously try and do any natural protocol that doesn't include using true hormones...even if they're called "natural".  I did the bi-est
and the tri-est and both were making me delay going through a natural menopause.  So,
three years, I suffered with going uphill and downhill, only to crash, leave the doctor in my
wake and try to figure this out on my own.

I've said this before and perhaps nobody is really connecting the dots, but BLOOD SUGAR and
adrenal glands is where the balancing needs to begin.  And for me, that meant that I had to
start living like a saint...almost like a diabetic, because even at age 65, going on 66, with
absolutely no menopausal symptoms at all, if I eat a food really high in sugar all by itself,
my mood will crash a few hours later, I'm going to start sweating and I'm going
to stay awake most of the night in an agitated state.  I'm going  to start to feel shaky
and scared and irritable....  THEN, the next day I'm going to wake
up angry and sometimes start crying before I get to breakfast.  My adrenals have always been my lifelong weak link and the only way to pacify them now is to treat them with utter respect.
As a child I lived on sugar, sugar and more sugar.

Consider your adrenal glands as fragile....Without your hormonal system functioning properly
at menopause a time when ovaries can no longer donate the proper amount of estrogen and progesterone, the slightest shake up of your adrenal glands is going to set your life out of whack. The adrenal glands can and have to produce small amounts of female hormones
but only if they're healthy and functional.

I found myself eating like a diabetic through most of my menopausal years (as an experiment
because I hated sweating, crying, losing sleep and feeling like I wanted to murder someone,
including myself) ...and THAT is what balanced me....changing my diet to protect, nourish and assist my adrenals...Breakfast had to have enough protein, a small amount of good carbs and
fats from flax or fish oil...very small amounts of fruit...Lunch and dinner similar...two snacks,
no sugar.

Slowly by myself, I figured out how to balance my adrenals...NO SUGAR...no artificial sugar...
no cookies, no cake, no desserts...just wholesome food...

So, I did best without taking hormones...and I had to go slowly on the plant estrogen
sources for a long while because foods like soy unbalanced me until I tolerated them.
I had to clean up my liver first...before I tolerated estrogenic foods...

What I learned from being my own "lab rat" was that it was about getting those adrenal glands functioning because their job is to produce enough back up hormones to take up the slack of the declining female (and some male) hormones  that the ovaries once produced in adequate
quanitites.

I'm seeing this chaos and beginning of hormonal decline in my daughter in laws.  One looks
to be estrogen dominant and she's only just 40.  My other daughter in law who is constantly
craving junk food and acting like a meanie lately is completely stressed out because she's
eating improperly.

I am doing great on the Warrior diet...better than I did on the BTD...My blood sugar is way
more stable and possibly because the plant carbs are lower on the glycemic index than
on the BTD.

I honestly believe you can balance hormones with diet...I can't say enough about the GTD..
I wish I had known about it when I was 40 something...when I needed it the most.

Put the right foods into your body and you will be able to balance yourself.  You just have
to take it very seriously...keep a food diary..write down everything you're eating...learn to
say "no",  I can't eat a toxin...I can't eat an avoid...I wish my daughter in laws would ask
me for help...I honestly think it takes a discipline that most people don't have.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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jayneeo
Monday, August 4, 2008, 6:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chloe, thank you for your insightful and personal experience-based information!! I value your post exptremely!!! Hope it helps otherrs.
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cindyt
Monday, August 4, 2008, 6:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815
I believe the FDA closed down the compounding pharmacies this past spring. Thanks to Wyeth complaining. I don't know how they'll get around it..I tried BHRT.  


This is NOT true.  Compounding pharmacies are still open, and still able to offer bioidentical hormones, including estriol.  They also sell many other kinds of compounded prescriptions to people who can't take regular drugs with their many additives.

I have successfully used bioidentical compounded hormones, prescribed first by a naturopath and then by M.D's,  for over ten years now, with great success.  My mother also uses prescribed natural progesterone cream successfully. She hasn't broken a bone since she started it ten years ago,  after previously breaking many including her hip,  and despite continuing to show very severe osteoporosis on the DEXA.


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Lola
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Quoted Text
Any suggestions for those of us who are supposed to avoid soy?

I d follow the advice given in your menopause book and the protocols......targeted and personalized.
also check your secretor status to finetune even more.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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pixelland
Monday, August 4, 2008, 6:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Great post, Chloe!
I'm not sure how well this will work for those of us who no longer have ovaries... But balancing everything else will surely help improve my general state of wellness. I can't wait to hear what my ND will recommend for me. She is a BTD believer, too.

Regarding compounding: I just spoke with my local Medicap pharmacy, and he still does custom compounding. He may be the exception rather than the rule, since the other location in town does not. I would guess that most mainstream chains don't compound... probably due to liability issues. The FDA has managed to do a lot of rediculous things in the interest of our health, but thank goodness they've not officially ended custom compounding... yet!



"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
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Lola
Monday, August 4, 2008, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chloe,
personal discipline, so true!!!!

people feel down, and give in to avoids, feeling sorry for themselves, and then feeling worse!! it is a vicious cycle, hard to break, and those who search, like you, find the answer to our health problems in the personal discipline we impose upon ourselves.

I salute your detective work and the respect you have for yourself.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Mayflowers
Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from cindyt

This is NOT true.  Compounding pharmacies are still open, and still able to offer bioidentical hormones, including estriol.  They also sell many other kinds of compounded prescriptions to people who can't take regular drugs with their many additives.


I read it in a magazine that the compounding pharmacies were not allowed to make bio identical hormones..trying to remember which one..due to Wyeth petitioning the FDA. The company where I got my BHRT went out of business..Perhaps this is only in certain areas? Maybe it hasn't reached your area. BTW, you don't need progesterone to prevent broken bones. Some calcium, vitamin D and resistance training (lifing weights) will prevent it...

Chloe, my goodness, you went through heck! I was heading down the same path! Luckily after I went to see Dr. D, I decided that I wasn't really feeling any better on BHRT and I thought the same thing that I was delaying a natural fact of life, which could come back to bite me. I felt immediately better when I stopped it. All I had to do was increase my soy consumption and I'm pretty good! The progesterone only made my symptoms worse, and I lost the weight I gained. My only regret was that I had nicer skin on it..
  
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Lola
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Quoted Text
BTW, you don't need progesterone to prevent broken bones. Some calcium, vitamin D and resistance training (lifing weights) will prevent it...


yes to all, as long as your liver and other are working like clockwork!
read Chloe s post......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Chloe
Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NP053

This is a super important supplement for me.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lola
Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr D has sorted everything out no doubt!
http://www.4yourtype.com/products.asp?dept=27

thanks for the reminder Chloe!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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pixelland
Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lola... I just checked the link...  The book on Menopause looks very interesting...  but it's out of stock??  


"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
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Victoria
Monday, August 4, 2008, 9:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chloe,
Thank you so much for taking the time to put together such a thoughtful post.  You are right that real health only comes when we are able to work our way back to the root cause of our unbalanced state.  I can understand how someone could feel desperate enough to take hormone replacement, especially after having survived menopause myself.  But my experience is similiar to yours, in that I have traced my real need back to my adrenals.  I have learned that when the adrenals are exhausted, they will cannibalize the sex hormones and make use of them.  This is not a scientific explanation, and I know it leaves much to be desired.  So if anyone understands the mechanics of how this process happens, please step in and elaborate.

Adrenal fatigue only worsens with the onset of menopause if it is not addressed.  And the toxicity from xenoestrogens that we have been exposed to for decades only complicates the matter.  The liver becomes very over burdened during menopause.  Chinese formulas such as Xaio Yao Wan, have been a great asset to me, and I have made use of that one for the past 10 years.  I also really appreciate the NAP product that you linked to.  It was helpful for me, and I used it for about a year and a half.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Mayflowers
Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from pixelland
Lola... I just checked the link...  The book on Menopause looks very interesting...  but it's out of stock??  


I have it..reading it..
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Mayflowers
Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Victoria
Chloe,
Chinese formulas such as Xaio Yao Wan, have been a great asset to me, and I have made use of that one for the past 10 years.  I also really appreciate the NAP product that you linked to.  It was helpful for me, and I used it for about a year and a half.



Victoria, I'm afraid to take herbal formulas..I have many allergies and sensitivities. Dr. D has me on two and I'm still worried..Plus I read in online that DonQuai causes cancer!

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Lola
Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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pix, try your library perhaps?
or amazon.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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