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Two questions about As  This thread currently has 1,101 views. Print Print Thread
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accidental_chef
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 10:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Did a check in the archives and couldnt find what I was looking for:

Is spinach and leafy greens an Avoid for A's if they have suffered kidney stones? The doctor who treated a friend of mine asked her not to eat tomatoes and spinach. Tomatoes, OK they are avoids for A's. But spinach-they are beneficial, arent they? My friend is lacto-vegetarian, I've been asking her to give up milk. Which brings me to the next question,

Is there any truth in drinking milk to increase milk production? It feels like a  "myth". I asked my friend to increase her water intake & protein instead. But there are 'experts' in the family who scorn me for asking her not to drink milk .

She's interested in BTD, and is slowly testing it out. She has just had her first baby, and post delivery has put on more weight which of course depresses her. Not an emotional eater, but like all vegetarians tend to pack in the grains more than veggies & plant protein.

She had the kidney stones removed by laser...and was told that she had a tendancy to form them and so the so called diet restriction.

Any advice on all of the above, anyone?

Thanks!


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 10:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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IF she just had a baby - I would say she should not give up all dairy but do what is best for Aīs like kefir, yoghurt, sour cream- ghee, neutral cheese specially if she donīt eat eggs.....
I donīt know about spinach..
BUT no dieting while breastfeeding!!!:

FROM ER4YB
Good milkproducing foods for Aīs are
soyfood, beans, cultured dairy , seaweed, spinach, molasses, egg yolks, †dry apricot , dark green leafy veggies,
figs, cheries, grapefruit, pineapple,
Well also fatty fish, organic poulty and snails.. but that is not an option here.

Some cultures belive that grains like quinoa, millet and rice soaked and cooked can help more mik.


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Henriette_Bsec  -  Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 10:25am
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yaman
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 11:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from accidental_chef

Is there any truth in drinking milk to increase milk production? It feels like a †"myth". I asked my friend to increase her water intake & protein instead. But there are 'experts' in the family who scorn me for asking her not to drink milk .



It is a myth Chef. Or a good marketing argument..

Maybe you should ask the "experts" to explain how the cows produce quantities of milk by eating grass  

cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 11:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from yaman


It is a myth Chef. Or a good marketing argument..

Maybe you should ask the "experts" to explain how the cows produce quantities of milk by eating grass †

cheers,
Yaman



funny


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Joyce
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 12:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thing is Yaman the cow has a rumen which we haven't!! and can digest all sorts of roughage which would make us ill.... or tied to the bathroom...

Sorry, couldn't resist... but I do agree drinking milk has nothing to do with producing it.

Joyce
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yaman
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 12:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Sure enough Joyce

However, after making this point, I proceed with telling that though we are not cows, there are considerable differences among people and one should be careful about what s/he is eating. Most of the time it works

Cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
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Captain_Janeway
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 2:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from accidental_chef
Did a check in the archives and couldnt find what I was looking for:

Is spinach and leafy greens an Avoid for A's if they have suffered kidney stones? The doctor who treated a friend of mine asked her not to eat tomatoes and spinach. Tomatoes, OK they are avoids for A's. But spinach-they are beneficial, arent they? My friend is lacto-vegetarian, I've been asking her to give up milk. Which brings me to the next question,

Is there any truth in drinking milk to increase milk production? It feels like a †"myth". I asked my friend to increase her water intake & protein instead. But there are 'experts' in the family who scorn me for asking her not to drink milk .

She's interested in BTD, and is slowly testing it out. She has just had her first baby, and post delivery has put on more weight which of course depresses her. Not an emotional eater, but like all vegetarians tend to pack in the grains more than veggies & plant protein.

She had the kidney stones removed by laser...and was told that she had a tendancy to form them and so the so called diet restriction.

Any advice on all of the above, anyone?

Thanks!


Calcium oxalate is the most common form of kidney stone, drinking plenty of water should help with diminishing stone formation. Tomatoes and spinach are rich in oxalates so yes I would say she needs to reduce her intake of oxalate rich foods and drink plenty of fresh water. Even if spinach is a beneficial and tomato is neutral in case she is a non.


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accidental_chef
Thursday, May 31, 2007, 2:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks all!

Henriette, she wont be dieting, but is paying more attention to get rid of lectin-laden food. Yes, she eats quite a bit of home made yoghurt.

Yaman, too funny! I said the same thing, and of course one smart alek had to bring in the cat-they drink milk and feed their young too...It's never ending if you dont want to grasp the basic principles...

Captain_Janeway, thanks a lot for that piece of info. I did a google on calcium oxalate and came up with quite a startling number of A-bene veggies and fruits to be avoided on these two links:

http://bodyandhealth.canada.co.....mp;relation_id=11002

http://www.rogerbaxter.com/KidneyStone/Pages/KidneyStone_4.shtml

Oh boy, last week she decided to eat more peanuts & peanut butter when she needed a snack (instead of rice based snacks)...and also planned on eating more broccoli thro'out the week !

Back to the drawing board now...

Please, anyone else with any more info & advice, please share them.

Thanks!


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

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Henriette Bsec
Thursday, May 31, 2007, 6:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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It is a good idea to eat high calcium food
with high Calcium oxalate food

That is the reason why rhubarb and spinach often was served with some kind of dairy
rhubarb: Yoghurt or cream
Spinash: yoghurt, cream or cheese.

I found this page maybe that can help her?
http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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accidental_chef
Friday, June 1, 2007, 11:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Henriette_Bsec
It is a good idea to eat high calcium food
with high Calcium oxalate food

That is the reason why rhubarb and spinach often was served with some kind of dairy
rhubarb: Yoghurt or cream
Spinash: yoghurt, cream or cheese.

I found this page maybe that can help her?
http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm


Thanks Henriette, what you say gives more focus, that is, food combination.

Would appreciate if there are any A's out there who can further help me with my query.

I really appreciate all the current info, thanks a lot!



BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

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Mrs. Rodgers
Saturday, June 2, 2007, 6:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The book "Magnesium Miracle" states that kidney stones are not from too much calcium but from a lack of magnesium.  It says that magnesium keeps calcium from depositing in areas where it can cause trouble.  If it deposits in the kidney's, kidney stones, in the lungs, asthma, in the blood vessels, high blood pressure, in muscles, muscle pain.  

Recommended magnesiums were magnesium malate, magnesium oil (magnesium chloride).  I can't remember the other forms recommended and my book is loaned out.  But it did say magnesium oxide, while good as a laxative, is not readily absorbed.  Recommended amounts were 400 to 600 mg twice a day.  Cut back if it causes loose stools.  
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accidental_chef
Saturday, June 2, 2007, 11:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mrs Rodgers, I was hoping that you'd respond, and you did, thank you!

So does this mean that she can eat A beneficials like spinach as long as she suppliments herself with magnesium? Will it affect her baby who she is breastfeeding? She has been battling with constipation for years now. Will she need a prescription for this suppliment?

Thanks again Mrs Rodgers, your posts have always helped the A's in my life!


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Mrs. Rodgers
Saturday, June 2, 2007, 11:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from accidental_chef

So does this mean that she can eat A beneficials like spinach as long as she supplements herself with magnesium? Will it affect her baby who she is breastfeeding? She has been battling with constipation for years now. Will she need a prescription for this supplement?


It would make sense that she could eat her bennies, since the magnesium would keep the calcium dissolved in her system.  

Seems to me that since magnesium is good for the nerves and relaxes muscles, it would only benefit the baby.  

According to what I've been reading, researchers have known for a long time about how vital magnesium is and that all this focus on calcium without adequate magnesium is setting women up for major problems such as heart disease.  

Here's a study I found in an old copy of "Nutrition Almanac":

Magnesium and kidney stones.  A thirty three year old pregnant woman had passed at least 8 to 12 stones during previous pregnancies.  She was given 500 - 1500mg of magnesium daily over a period of 6 weeks.

Results.  The pregnancy during which she was given the oral dose of magnesium was the first one during which she did not pass a single kidney stone.  (F. Peter Kohler and Charles A W Uhle, Journal of Urology, Nov. 1966)[b][/b]

Constipation is actually a symptom of magnesium deficiency.  

No prescription needed, it's in the health food store.  

This is where I got my liquid "magnesium oil".  
http://www.internationalhealth.net/Page8.html

back to you.  You're welcome.
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Mrs. Rodgers
Sunday, June 3, 2007, 12:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here's some more studies about magnesium.  

http://www.afibbers.org/magnesium.html

And here's some info on problems caused by magnesium deficiency.

http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html

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Henriette_Bsec  -  Sunday, June 3, 2007, 12:11am
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+Aan
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I've read dark green greens like kale, spinach, collards, mustards, turnips were good for making milk. ( I'm thinking it was a Dr. Jensen book that I read. ) ...Aani


Listen, this is what I think: I think we can't go around measuring our goodness by what we don't do, by what we deny ourselves, what we resist, and who we exclude. I think we've got to measure goodness by what we embrace, what we create, and who we include. Pere Henri (Chocolat)
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Mrs. Rodgers
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It seems that a compliant diet makes the most difference in breastmilk production.  When I did postpartum care for a type B mom, after two weeks of my B cooking for her (lots of salads with feta or mozz, roasted broccoli, lamb and venison stews, banana bread, yogurt smoothies, salmon, etc.) she actually became engorged even though she had already been pumping for her twins for several weeks while they were in the NICU.  She didn't use me for a week when her inlaws were visiting, and her milk production was low and she had used up all her frozen milk while I was gone.  She was a "nutritionist" who thought she needed to cut back on dairy and that chicken was ok.  I planted a few seeds about dairy and chicken and I hope they grew.  

Another mom, type O vegetarian. I had a very hard time getting her milk supply up.  Another type O meat eater, no problem with milk.  She was begging me to repeat the beef stew since she ate a whole pot in one day!  Just my observations.  
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accidental_chef
Sunday, June 3, 2007, 7:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm very grateful Mrs Rodgers and thanks for the tips Aani!


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

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tortugaAnonnie
Friday, October 19, 2012, 7:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi accidental_chef,

As I understand it, yes, spinach is a Beneficial for MOST A's.  

However, if you are an "A non-secretor" with rhuematoid arthritis, and your genotype is "teacher" (like yours truly) spinach is an ABSOLUTE TOXIN!  I love, love, love spinach - always have - but I avoid it like the plague now.
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JJR
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I'm not on the low oxolate band wagon.  When I went to mayo clinic, I saw a urologist and that was his advice for me.  But thing is, the list that they wanted me to avoid was like every food.  Nuts, meat, leafy greens.  I mean, c'mon.  I think there are other reasons for my kidney stones that I've had.  I don't know.  Maybe he's right, and maybe I'll just get more, but I think the low oxolate diet is goofy.  And the urologist I saw didn't impress me.  It seemed like this was a typical response to anyone with kidney stones.  


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ruthiegirl
Friday, October 19, 2012, 6:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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From a practical perspective, the magnesium oil may be inconvenient with a baby in the house- I remember the lack of time for showering and other personal care when  I was nursing a newborn. I wouldn't discourage her from trying the mag oil, but I'd strongly suggest an oral magnesium supplement as well, as that's more likely to be used consistently.

She is neither a cat nor a cow, and I think she should eat like a person! I'd suggest she follow Eat Right 4 Your Baby (ER4YB). Since she's breastfeeding, that's the most appropriate diet for her right now, out of all the ones Dr D has put together.

I don't know if the low oxalate diet is necessary, but I also know it won't hurt her to omit or minimize spinach in her diet as long as she eats enough other compliant leafy greens. Nobody has to eat EVERY beneficial food on their lists- I certainly don't!

If she fills up on healthy, nourishing foods and keeps "empty calories" and "avoids" to a minimum, she'll probably lose weight in a slow, safe manner. My guess is that she'll be less prone to kidney stones as well, as her whole body will be more in balance.

It's fine for an A to be a lacto-vegetarian. If she can nix the milk and stick to compliant cheeses and fermented dairy, and start to emphasize beans, nuts, and veggies and minimize grains, I think she'll do well.

Even the idiots who say "you need to drink milk to make milk" don't distinguish between milk and other dairy products. Eating a quart of yogurt is equivalent to drinking a quart of milk in this context. But I think she should follow the portion guidelines in ER4YB, and I don't know if that's way more dairy than an A should be having.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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cajun
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I am an A teacher and my swami says spinach is a black dot and tomatoes are avoid!


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Victoria
Saturday, October 20, 2012, 12:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This thread is very interesting and informative and feel free to keep it going.  But just for reference, the baby would now be something like 5 1/2 years old, since the discussion started in the spring of 2007.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Adopted4
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I previously was a Warrior before I updated my SWAMI info recently which then changed me to a 38% Teacher. Spinach was a superfood previously and still is now, but iceberg and green leaf changed from superfood to now a black dot. I checked history of joint and inflammation issues in parents, siblings, as well as myself and that had not changed the last time I ran my SWAMI. Tomatoes and other nightshade vegetables have always been an avoid, except for eggplant.

If spinach was that toxic for all Teachers then why is it still a superfood for me? I eat it without any ill feeling and it makes me feel good afterwards, whether fresh or sauteed.

I'm not familiar what oxolates are. Maybe someone can explain it better to me.


Coleen ISF-J, Non-Taster
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:26-27
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Chloe
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Quoted from Adopted4


I'm not familiar what oxolates are. Maybe someone can explain it better to me.


http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48



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wanthanee
Sunday, October 21, 2012, 9:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am an A teacher and my swami says spinach is a neutral.

http://www.ehow.com/how_13202_vegetarian-diet-breast.html



Right Food as Medicine.¬†¬†  GT3 Teacher SWAMI
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