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acne and BTD  This thread currently has 3,403 views. Print Print Thread
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vicesgalore
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What is the connection between acne and BTD? I have read that refined vegetable oils can cause major problems such as inflamation, but the BTD says CANOLA OIL and SOY OIL are neutral for blood type AB.  According to the the BTD, BUTTER is avoid for A and AB "Contains component which can modify known disease susceptibility." So what is the best oil to cook with? Olive Oil is not high heat, and according to Dr. D, Coconut Oil is AVOID for all blood types, despite other people claiming it to be highly beneficial??? There is alot of confusion out there it seems. Should I just use ghee and nothing else to stir-fry with? (As it is neutral/beneficial for blood type AB)

What is the ideal diet for AB when skin problems (inflammatory acne) is involved? Any Advice?

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Lola
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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welcome!)
get acquainted with the forum and all features
of this website.
If you go to the top of the page and click on
member centre (on the top right hand side of
this page) and get yourself a nice avatar
(located on the left) then we can all see what
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-if you want to add information below your avatar setting, such as Rh +/-, by going to the Profile Information section in the Member Center and typing in the Personal Message box.  You can also create a Signature of any other information you want to share that will go at the bottom of every message you post.
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.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lola
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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the diet per se is antiinflammatory.........try and be as compliant as you possibly can....
there s a lot of science backing up this lifestyle, read about it on this website.

which book do you have?

try the skin protocols, also, to supplement accordingly.

olive oil , ghee are good oils for stir frying.

here s some info on coconut oil:
http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000226.htm


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hey...how do I admire this green shield  .... welcome...welcome...welcome...... Lola, I told ya we are going to beat the B's
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Lola
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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ABs ahoy!! lol


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Gumby
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Grapeseed may be an option when you need something with a higher smoke point?  It is not in the typebase, so I assume it to be a neutral?  I find olive works for most everything I do, but once in a while if I want something to get really hot I will use a bit of grapeseed.


Embracing my A-ness!    (Ok, that is waaaay better in print than it is out loud!      )

A+Sec Teacher follwing GT3/SWAMI diet
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Drea
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Ghee works well for higher smoke points, too. I've heard that walnut oil is another that has a higher smoke point, although I only ever use it for salad dressings.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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mhameline
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 6:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 41
I find that when I'm eating avoids I get breakouts of acne - and in strange places too.  Anyway - I think it's a way that the inflammation from the avoids show up for me and if you have acne it could be the same for you as well.  


Blessings,
Missy

Married to Kris a B+
Pursuing domestic infant adoption.
Jordan Alexandra - born 5/12/08
Placed in our arms - 5/21/08

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Alia Vo
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,640
Gender: Female
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Age: 43
Perhaps you may want to try the following protocol:
http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/26.html

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
John 17
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Hopeful
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Vicesgalore!
I always mix olive oil and a teaspoon of ghee to stirfry. The ghee gives the olive oil a higher burn temp(and taste)
I really found when it comes to my skin that as soon as I got Chicken and Beef out of my diet my skin started to look great. Coffee is another great inflammation causer for us AB's..and I'm working on that one.I also swear by pro-active skin care line. Let the Blood type diet heal you inside and pro-active heal what is already there.
How old are you and where do you live?
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Esmerelda
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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In my case, I think that excessive consumption of sweet carbohydrates and too much sugar is directly responsible for acne(despite what most conventional protocols tell you), although there are always the regular hormonal breakouts around THAT time of the month.
I think wheat probably had a lot to do with the appearance of my skin as well, and overprocessed white flour specifically.

That said, I have a friend who I am gradually explaining the BTD to, and who suffers from fairly bad acne. She's a B. Does anyone have any ideas about what she should start to cut out to eliminate that particular problem? I'm pretty sure if she saw results from food changes, she'd jump headlong into the BTD...


No tricks, no unpleasant bending! Wrestle poodles and WIN!

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Esmerelda  -  Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:35pm
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Alia Vo
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,640
Gender: Female
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Age: 43
Quoted from Esmerelda
That said, I have a friend who I am gradually explaining the BTD to, and who suffers from fairly bad acne. She's a B. Does anyone have any ideas about what she should start to cut out to eliminate that particular problem? I'm pretty sure if she saw results from food changes, she'd jump headlong into the BTD...


I would start eliminating the big 'B' avoids which are corn, chicken, tomatoes, peanuts, lentils, buckwheat, and sesame seeds.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
John 17
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vicesgalore
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hopeful
Hi Vicesgalore!
I always mix olive oil and a teaspoon of ghee to stirfry. The ghee gives the olive oil a higher burn temp(and taste)
I really found when it comes to my skin that as soon as I got Chicken and Beef out of my diet my skin started to look great. Coffee is another great inflammation causer for us AB's..and I'm working on that one.I also swear by pro-active skin care line. Let the Blood type diet heal you inside and pro-active heal what is already there.
How old are you and where do you live?



Great idea with the olive oil / ghee mixture for stirfry! I have been off coffee / chicken / beef now for a while, and haven't noticed any improvement, although I have used more butter recently which the TYPEBase 4 says is bad for AB....

I am 25/m living in California.

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vicesgalore
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Esmerelda
In my case, I think that excessive consumption of sweet carbohydrates and too much sugar is directly responsible for acne(despite what most conventional protocols tell you), although there are always the regular hormonal breakouts around THAT time of the month.
I think wheat probably had a lot to do with the appearance of my skin as well, and overprocessed white flour specifically.

That said, I have a friend who I am gradually explaining the BTD to, and who suffers from fairly bad acne. She's a B. Does anyone have any ideas about what she should start to cut out to eliminate that particular problem? I'm pretty sure if she saw results from food changes, she'd jump headlong into the BTD...



I know gluten is bad for acne, but what about Ezekiel bread??? .... according to the BTD for AB Ezekiel bread is highly beneficial.

I do not consume any sugar / processed grains which might cause inflammation.




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Alia Vo
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,640
Gender: Female
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Age: 43
According to TYPEBase4, Ezekiel bread is fine for you.  

Please double check the bread package labels for any avoid ingredients as each variety of Ezekiel bread contains different ingredients.

ETA:  Albeit, Ezekiel is a sprouted bread, it is not gluten free if it contains any of the gluten grains.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
John 17

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Hopeful
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 8:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from vicesgalore
I know gluten is bad for acne, but what about Ezekiel bread??? .... according to the BTD for AB Ezekiel bread is highly benefical.

I do not consume any sugar / processed grains which might cause inflammation.


Ezekiel bread is beneficial and I can't see it causing your acne. You sound like you live a pretty healthy lifestyle, do you drink enough PURE water? Your weight in pounds divided by 2 and drank in ounces.I would add lemon to that water too.
Would you consider trying "Pro-Active" to see if it helps? Some peoples skin does not shed enough skin cells and causes all sorts of problems.

Revision History (2 edits)
Esmerelda  -  Friday, January 26, 2007, 6:01pm
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Esmerelda  -  Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 8:32pm
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Victoria
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 8:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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If you are truly gluten insensensitive, even sprouted grains, such as Ezekial will cause problems.  I have felt a lot better all round after stopping all gluten products.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Ben_Lamers
Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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also, if you are just starting out BTD a detox would be a great place to start. that way you absorb all the good BTD food! any colon cleanse is good especialy Colonix.. takes about 2 months. after you get done you can keep good digestion with probiotic.
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vicesgalore
Friday, January 26, 2007, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ben_Lamers
also, if you are just starting out BTD a detox would be a great place to start. that way you absorb all the good BTD food! any colon cleanse is good especialy Colonix.. takes about 2 months. after you get done you can keep good digestion with probiotic.


I checked out Colonix, but it has some ingredients which are consider AVOIDs for my blood type...

stuff like aloe vera and pumpkin seed

http://www.drnatura.com/product_pic/colonix_program_pic.html

is it worth it?

will some of these herbs make me break out worse??


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ISA-MANUELA
Friday, January 26, 2007, 5:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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guar gum ....aloe vera..........
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Don
Friday, January 26, 2007, 6:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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You might also consider getting your secretor status tested, and your A1/A2 subtype too.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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KimonoKat
Friday, January 26, 2007, 6:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from vicesgalore



Great idea with the olive oil / ghee mixture for stirfry! I have been off coffee / chicken / beef now for a while, and haven't noticed any improvement, although I have used more butter recently which the TYPEBase 4 says is bad for AB....

I am 25/m living in California.



Where abouts in Cali are you?  We use rice oil to cook with quite a bit.  It's not in the type base but I do believe there are posts in the old message board archives of virtually all blood types not having a problem with it.   We also use ghee and walnut oil.

I suggest getting your secretor status tested.  That way you can fine tune your diet for optimum results, faster.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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vicesgalore
Sunday, January 28, 2007, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Is there any cheap way to get this tested? ie... not sending away for a special kit?
i don't understand the whole secretor / non secretor and A1/A2 subtype stuff either... but I tend to just follow the AB secretor diet
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Vicki
Sunday, January 28, 2007, 5:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Using Custom SWAMI Food List
Sun Beh Nim
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Check Suzanne's blog for a way you may be able to get your doctor to do the Lewis type blood test.
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resting
Sunday, January 28, 2007, 11:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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there is another way to avoid acne problems and oils ... cook only with steam - then add that bit of oil after cooking.  This concept stays totally away from smoke-points and was proposed by one of flax oil's largest fans.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, January 28, 2007, 5:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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back again
AB's...& BTD and acne...we, are more prone for the A's side...so far we do need further Vit. A or add some more provit. A; for this time I'd like to tell you, go for 10'000 I E daily of Vit. A and go for 4-6 times 500mg's of MSM after the meals or during meals ; then add dandelion or milk thistel to your
supps; and for fats, just a bit of oliveoil and ghee daily; a bit more of Vit. C and for sure some silicea; this stuff takes all badies outta your body, even in the deepest matrix it will be pulled out
that's all for the moment
good luck
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vicesgalore
Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 10:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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right now I am taking the following each day, along with eating the proper AB blood type diet.


Accutane (isotrentinoin) 10mg (every other day)

Double-Strength Cod Liver Oil (8 capsules per day) -- each one contains 2,500 IU vitamin A and 270IU Vitamin D -- that is about 20,000 IU Vitamin A each day!

Acetyl L-Carnitine  (500mg)x3
Doctor's Best Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid (100mg) x3
Dr. Trust Beta Glucans (250mg)x2
Free-Form L-Lysine (500mg)x1
NSI Ester-C with Quercetin & Bioflavonoids (500mg) x2
Vitamin B-125 Complex x1
Activated B-Complex High Bioavailability (1 capsule) x1
Triple Magnesium Complex (400mg) x1
Calcium Citrate & Vitamin D (630mg / 400IU)x1
Albion Complexed Selenium (200mcg) x1 Albion
Chelated Zinc  (30mg) x1
Vitamin E Mixed Tocopherols (400IU) x1
Chromium Picolinate (200mcg) x1
Folic Acid (800mcg) x1
Niacinamide (500mg)  x1

Swanson Condition Specific Formulas - Liver Essentials x1
Planetary Formulas Full Spectrum Astragalus Extract (500mg) x2
N-Acetyl Cysteine (600mg) x2
Chasteberry Fruit (400mg) x2
Nettle Root (500mg) x3
Biotin (5mg) x1  
7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree (40mg) x1
NSI Resveratrol Green Tea, C, Grape Complex x2
NSI PomActiv Pomegranate Extract (500mg) x2

Bioperine Nutrient Absorption Enhancer (10mg) x1
Eleuthero Root (425mg) x4

Spirulina Natural Whole Food Algae (1000mg) x2
Broken Cell Wall Chlorella (1000mg) x2
Coriander Cilantro (425mg) x2

ConAgra Foods Culturelle - Premier Probiotic w/ Lactobacillus GG x1
AbsorbAid Vegi Caps x6  (two with each meal)

Dual-Release Melatonin (3mg) x1

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Lola
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 5:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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wow!
that seems like a lot to me!

I would let my food be my medicine for a while and detox all those pills out of my system.......
I know you must have your reasons, but sometimes 'less is better'.

how long have you been eating right?
your body does need time and patience to adjust.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Whimsical
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 12:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from vicesgalore
right now I am taking the following each day, along with eating the proper AB blood type diet.


Accutane (isotrentinoin) 10mg (every other day)

Double-Strength Cod Liver Oil (8 capsules per day) -- each one contains 2,500 IU vitamin A and 270IU Vitamin D -- that is about 20,000 IU Vitamin A each day!

Acetyl L-Carnitine  (500mg)x3
Doctor's Best Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid (100mg) x3
Dr. Trust Beta Glucans (250mg)x2
Free-Form L-Lysine (500mg)x1
NSI Ester-C with Quercetin & Bioflavonoids (500mg) x2
Vitamin B-125 Complex x1
Activated B-Complex High Bioavailability (1 capsule) x1
Triple Magnesium Complex (400mg) x1
Calcium Citrate & Vitamin D (630mg / 400IU)x1
Albion Complexed Selenium (200mcg) x1 Albion
Chelated Zinc  (30mg) x1
Vitamin E Mixed Tocopherols (400IU) x1
Chromium Picolinate (200mcg) x1
Folic Acid (800mcg) x1
Niacinamide (500mg)  x1

Swanson Condition Specific Formulas - Liver Essentials x1
Planetary Formulas Full Spectrum Astragalus Extract (500mg) x2
N-Acetyl Cysteine (600mg) x2
Chasteberry Fruit (400mg) x2
Nettle Root (500mg) x3
Biotin (5mg) x1  
7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree (40mg) x1
NSI Resveratrol Green Tea, C, Grape Complex x2
NSI PomActiv Pomegranate Extract (500mg) x2

Bioperine Nutrient Absorption Enhancer (10mg) x1
Eleuthero Root (425mg) x4

Spirulina Natural Whole Food Algae (1000mg) x2
Broken Cell Wall Chlorella (1000mg) x2
Coriander Cilantro (425mg) x2

ConAgra Foods Culturelle - Premier Probiotic w/ Lactobacillus GG x1
AbsorbAid Vegi Caps x6  (two with each meal)

Dual-Release Melatonin (3mg) x1



I just took a glance, but I have to comment on some of this.

Accutane - No, no, no.  Google Accutane to read all the possible harmful effects.  This is like using a sledgehammer to hit a tiny nail...

Vitamin A - You are taking FAR too much.  This can damage your liver long-term.

B-complex - You are taking 2 different ones, and extra B vits (folic acid, biotin, niacinamide) besides.  FAR too much.  Your urine is bright yellow, which means you are peeing most of those B vits out anyway.  Total waste of money and also potentially harmful to you.

Zinc - Not balanced by Copper intake, can cause copper deficiency.  Also interferes with absorption of Calcium.  Your daily dose is too high (15mg max) and taking zinc long-term can actually depress your immune system and cause taste/smell problems.

Liver Essentials - Clearly taking all these substances, you need liver support, but this should not be a long-term substance unless you have some sort of liver condition.  It simply adds more stuff for your liver to deal with.  Kind of counter-productive, eh?

Astragalus - Immune modulator.  Also not for daily use.

Eleuthero Root - Adaptogen.  Can be quite effective for short-term adrenal support, but long-term will have negative effects.  Helps you push your body further than it wants to go.  Eventually your body will force you to stop and rest.

Melatonin - 3mg is a higher dose and melatonin is a hormone which can be habit forming.  It should only be used occasionally because long-term use will impair your body's ability to synthsize it on its own.

Overall, you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen (all detoxification organs).  If these organs are impaired, your body will try to eliminate toxins via the skin.  Voila, you have acne.  

Advice: See a natural health practitioner and bring to them everything you are taking.  Seek their advice and follow it.

If you are not willing to seek professional knowledge, taper off all these substances gradually, adhere to the AB diet strictly, and ride out whatever detox your body needs to do.  This means NO supplements for a few weeks.  Then decide on what supplements can benefit you (probably only need a probiotic, multivit, calcium).


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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mandi
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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i've had bad cystic acne in the past and what helped me was an omega 3 complex.  it is basicly flax oil, fish oil, and borage oil.  it worked wonders for me.  If i get off the diet now though, just give it a few days and it's back again till i get on track.
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vicesgalore
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am taking an ultra-low dose of accutane, which has proven very effective for acne and rosacea.

Efficacy of Low-Dose Isotretinoin in Patients With Treatment-Resistant Rosacea
(Archives of Dermatology, Vol. 134 No. 7, July 199

Continuous 'microdose' isotretinoin in adult recalcitrant rosacea.
(Clin Exp Dermatol. 2004 Mar;29(2):204-5. )


I am not taking Vitamin A, I am taking Double Strength Cod Liver Oil; is taking 8 capsules per day going to be toxic to my liver?

Dr. Joseph Mercola says:
"Due to the commonly heard warnings that too much vitamin A is toxic and can result in birth defects, liver abnormalities, and reduced bone mineral density -- many people are afraid of taking too much of this nutrient.

What is rarely addressed, and must be considered along with these warnings, is the TYPE of vitamin A. There is a big difference between synthetic vitamin A and vitamin A from natural sources. Most cases of vitamin A toxicity result from an excess intake of synthetic vitamin A in supplements, NOT the natural form of retinol (vitamin A) found in cod liver oil.

Because cod liver oil contains vitamin D there's no need to worry about vitamin A toxicity if you take it in cod liver oil. It is virtually impossible to become toxic on vitamin A if you take it along with vitamin D. As evidenced in a study published in the December 2003 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, vitamin D is associated with reduced vitamin A toxicity, and the vitamin D appears to protect against retinal toxicity.

An anti-infective vitamin, vitamin A is useful for many conditions including vision problems, poor thyroid function, a weakened immune system, and fighting off infections, especially those that involve mucous membranes as vitamin A is used to form the cells lining the digestive, respiratory, reproductive and urinary tracts and all tissue linings of the body. Night blindness, dry eyes, eye infections and skin problems are just some of the conditions associated with Vitamin A deficiency."



15mg max? Who told you this value? I have heard values under 100mg/day are ok. You really think 30mg is excessive per day?

Astragalus and Eleuthero and not for daily use? I have adrenal issues and was told both of these supplements are effective for adrenal support


You said: "you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen."  
REALLY? I am taking things which are designed to help support those organs, things which are known to do such.

Ideally I could eat the perfect diet, but I do not think such a thing really exists anymore or is practical for anyone who doesn't have thousands of dollars to spend on organic food.






Quoted from Whimsical


I just took a glance, but I have to comment on some of this.

Accutane - No, no, no.  Google Accutane to read all the possible harmful effects.  This is like using a sledgehammer to hit a tiny nail...

Vitamin A - You are taking FAR too much.  This can damage your liver long-term.

B-complex - You are taking 2 different ones, and extra B vits (folic acid, biotin, niacinamide) besides.  FAR too much.  Your urine is bright yellow, which means you are peeing most of those B vits out anyway.  Total waste of money and also potentially harmful to you.

Zinc - Not balanced by Copper intake, can cause copper deficiency.  Also interferes with absorption of Calcium.  Your daily dose is too high (15mg max) and taking zinc long-term can actually depress your immune system and cause taste/smell problems.

Liver Essentials - Clearly taking all these substances, you need liver support, but this should not be a long-term substance unless you have some sort of liver condition.  It simply adds more stuff for your liver to deal with.  Kind of counter-productive, eh?

Astragalus - Immune modulator.  Also not for daily use.

Eleuthero Root - Adaptogen.  Can be quite effective for short-term adrenal support, but long-term will have negative effects.  Helps you push your body further than it wants to go.  Eventually your body will force you to stop and rest.

Melatonin - 3mg is a higher dose and melatonin is a hormone which can be habit forming.  It should only be used occasionally because long-term use will impair your body's ability to synthsize it on its own.

Overall, you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen (all detoxification organs).  If these organs are impaired, your body will try to eliminate toxins via the skin.  Voila, you have acne.  

Advice: See a natural health practitioner and bring to them everything you are taking.  Seek their advice and follow it.

If you are not willing to seek professional knowledge, taper off all these substances gradually, adhere to the AB diet strictly, and ride out whatever detox your body needs to do.  This means NO supplements for a few weeks.  Then decide on what supplements can benefit you (probably only need a probiotic, multivit, calcium).


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Kyosha Nim
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You take 35 different supplements a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why????????

Try to take a step back and look at the list!

Presumably you didn't start out with all 35 but added stuff as you read about it...

Ask yourself why you can't allow the idea that the advice you have received from Lola and Kate might be correct?

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I'd seriously reconsider what Whimsical is telling you.  Whim is in Naturopathic College right now, studying to be an ND.  If it were me, and she was giving me advice, I'd sit up and pay attention.  But maybe that's just me.

I'm not saying that Mercola is wrong in his information that you are basing taking a "double dose" of this supplement on, but I tend to question anything that comes from him because his metabolic typing system is not based on anything you can measure in the body.  Besides, does anyone remember where Mercola got his mail away for it and get it quick diploma?



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Whimsical
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Well, you posted your list and asked for advice, so you got it!    After reading the list I felt the need to alert you to some possible risks.

I have not examined you as a patient, I don't know your health history, and I can't say what is right for you - that is your responsibility alone.  If you are seeing a practitioner who has prescribed these things for you and you are content with your health progress, wonderful.  Self-prescribing at this level is, in my opinion, ignorant and dangerous.  

Quoted from vicesgalore
I am taking an ultra-low dose of accutane, which has proven very effective for acne and rosacea.


I believe it is effective (the antibiotics and steroids I slathered on my face everyday for 6 years were very effective for my acne too), but it isn't solving the problem of WHY you have acne and rosacea.  Not only that, but by covering up your symptoms (which are valuable information on finding the root cause), you are setting yourself up for more serious problems later.  Allowing whatever is causing your acne and rosacea to remain unaddressed and unseen, you are allowing your body to continue in a chronic state of imbalance.  This can have permanent negative effects down the line.  

Quoted from vicesgalore
I am not taking Vitamin A, I am taking Double Strength Cod Liver Oil; is taking 8 capsules per day going to be toxic to my liver?


I'm not saying that this amount of vitamin A is going to kill you, but your liver and other organs must still process it.  That's extra work.  Keep that going for many years unnecessarily and you will prematurely age the organ.  There is lots of information out there to support the toxicity of vitamin A - do your own research.  A related example - diets high in beta carotene is associated with lower risk of cancer, however the isolated SUPPLEMENT form of beta carotene has actually been linked to INCREASED risk of cancer.  Food and supplement are not the same.  

Quoted from vicesgalore

15mg max? Who told you this value? I have heard values under 100mg/day are ok. You really think 30mg is excessive per day?


Here is a link from Dr. D re: zinc.

Quoted from vicesgalore

Astragalus and Eleuthero and not for daily use? I have adrenal issues and was told both of these supplements are effective for adrenal support.


Who told you this?  A qualified health practitioner?  If so, go with their advice.  If not, see a practitioner and check it out.  Anyone can give advice, but ultimately they are not responsible for what happens to you and will not be paying the price for mistakes.

There is a fine line between supporting the adrenals (while you rest, heal, and give them the time they need to recover from years of overwork) and propping up a failing gland.  These supplements can be beneficial, but you should not be dependent on them (ie: long-term daily use) for your adrenals to function.  Again, a case in which it is possible to mask the real issue and possibly cause irreversible damage.

Quoted from vicesgalore

You said: "you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen."  
REALLY? I am taking things which are designed to help support those organs, things which are known to do such.


Why do you need such support?  Why can your organs not function on their own?  Why do you think that your body doesn't have to do work to deal with the onslaught of chemicals it is receiving every day?

Again I ask, were you prescribed these supplements by a qualified pracitioner?  Even if you were, I would still seek a 2nd opinion because this is a very long list of substances.  

Quoted from vicesgalore

Ideally I could eat the perfect diet, but I do not think such a thing really exists anymore or is practical for anyone who doesn't have thousands of dollars to spend on organic food.


I agree, but we all must do the best we can.  There is a wide variety of healthy, nutrient-rich food out there.  Supplements are appealing and can have great effects, but there are risks too.  I urge you to do your own research.  Here are some great resources about foods and nutrients:

World's Healthiest Foods website
Prescription for Nutritional Healing
The Encyclopedia of Healing Foods


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Revision History (3 edits)
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I just wanted to mention that when you start with food, rather than supplements, you bring your body into balance.  Slowly and by listening...

The money you save on supplements will be better spent on high quality food, organic or not.
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Quoted from KimonoKat
I'd seriously reconsider what Whimsical is telling you.  Whim is in Naturopathic College right now, studying to be an ND.  If it were me, and she was giving me advice, I'd sit up and pay attention.  But maybe that's just me.

I'm not saying that Mercola is wrong in his information that you are basing taking a "double dose" of this supplement on, but I tend to question anything that comes from him because his metabolic typing system is not based on anything you can measure in the body.  Besides, does anyone remember where Mercola got his mail away for it and get it quick diploma?




now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College??? it seems kind of arrogant, don't you think?
even the top doctors and experts in the world disagree on many medical issues; the body is extremely complex and someone in college cannot claim to have such infallible insight.


everything i've read says cod liver oil is safe at those levels, because of the vitamin D, and because it is a "natural" source; it seems a little absurd to throw around criticism without citing evidence.  


I researched the copper issue and will integrate 2mg/day because of the zinc I am taking.

I have tried through diet alone for months and years to become healthy (even very extreme diets approved by Dr. Charles Moss in La Jolla)... but I believe I need supplements to bring my back up to speed, and when I feel like I am where I need to be (clear skin, more daytime energy/focus), then of course I will wean myself off those supplements (they are quite expensive after all)

No one has access to perfect knowledge, especially about the human body, i think a little humility is important here right?


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Quoted Text


now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College??? it seems kind of arrogant, don't you think?


In your initial post, you asked about the BTD and acne.  You started a thread asking for advice about cooking oils.  Later posts you decribed all the supplements you were taking, and you have received some excellent advice about those supplements.  The information that you provided to support your position is "one size fits all" information, and the BTD is quite different; it's about individuality.  The basis for the diet is our genetic differences.  Many who responded to you have been following this way of living and eating for quite a number of years, and are exceptionally knowledgeable about the diet, and alternative health care in general.

If you don't feel the information you have received is relevant or applies to you, that's your choice to disregard it.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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Quoted from KimonoKat


In your initial post, you asked about the BTD and acne.  You started a thread asking for advice about cooking oils.  Later posts you decribed all the supplements you were taking, and you have received some excellent advice about those supplements.  The information that you provided to support your position is "one size fits all" information, and the BTD is quite different; it's about individuality.  The basis for the diet is our genetic differences.  Many who responded to you have been following this way of living and eating for quite a number of years, and are exceptionally knowledgeable about the diet, and alternative health care in general.

If you don't feel the information you have received is relevant or applies to you, that's your choice to disregard it.


certainly its my choice to disregard, and its my choice to critique as well. it seems like your position might lead to the conlusion that there are no absolutes? everyone is different, an individual, and therefore we cannot really say anything concrete? do you believ in logic, order, and causality in the universe? If so, then we can have a meaningful dialogue; even about things extraordinarily complex like the human body and the diversity of genetics.

The information I provided was not intended to be "one size fits all", that is an overstatement for sure, but it should also be noted that the information I received was put forth in a similiar blanketing like manner. I simply ask for the reasoning behind those blanket statements to be put forth in an intelligible manner with the proper sources cited if appropiate. this way we can all benefit and learn together in a community of mutual respect and support, right?



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Whimsical
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Quoted from vicesgalore

now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College???


Of course you don't have to listen to me!

Quoted from vicesgalore
everything i've read says cod liver oil is safe at those levels, because of the vitamin D, and because it is a "natural" source; it seems a little absurd to throw around criticism without citing evidence.


Well, then perhaps it is.  Perhaps it isn't.  I guess it depends on the quality of your sources.  While there is lots of information on the internet, not all of it is good.  One of the biggest things I have learned since starting school is that the information available to laypeople on the net is pretty poor.  Health practitioners not only have access to exponentially more and better information, but they also have the education in chemistry, biology, physiology, etc to understand it.

If you want to get more information from the net, try Pubmed, or Cochrane Library, for example.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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Sam Dan
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Hi vicesgalore,

as someone who has many more nutrients than those you list, there is another way to proceed ... [Whimsical will not run into it in any course offered but her brief reading seems quite impressive!].  Here is something to try: because your body does adapt to the high concentrations in supplements (most meds too), a medical professor swore off all these concentrates for 1 day each week.

I also eat foods (and use supplements) primarily on a seasonal basis.  Our bodies do tend to fluctuate rhythmically from one year to the next.  To function optimally, I attempt to match my intake to support the kinds of things the body does naturally.

Eg. > colostrum >> (the 'up' -side) SPRING >> SUMMER >> (the 'down'-side) autumn >> winter >

So besides colostrum at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tbrl/colpow.html, StemEnhance http://www.stemenhance.com + CGF (chlorella growth factor at www.shokos .com) likely will help tremendously. Likely lecithin + black currant seed oil  + AA at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mn/xfactor.html and (DHA) via Neuromins are good.

following this - it's orient towards generating and improving the immune system: eggs; mini-carrots are supplemented with Seacure, sprouts, dry grasses, flowers, etc. Ghee and probiotics are very good.

then there is Summer- the high point of metabolism - high protein intake especially fish ... also thyroid and adrenals kick-in to give greater support for muscle work and peak the immune system to counter infection from flying insects.  C-chlorella at http://www.shokos.com goes a long way as this season's perfect food.  Berries help here too.  Foods high in iodine are best here: http://www.umac-core.com for phytoplankton may assist.  Oil of choice is olive oil; almond oil too.

followed by autumn - this season is about harvest, completion - so vegetables are accented (a few fruits like apples/pears are good here).  Oil supplements are flax and/or chia seeds.  Its also the time for a whole range of adaptogens ... like Maca.

last is winter - much of this season is about rest and very low needs for any supplement.  Root veggies are supplemented by nutritional yeast, and in late winter cod liver oil.  Other oil supplements ... fish oils.  Silicea is very good here for skin health

Using this concept it is possible to maximize the intake of many substances and minimize too much interference.  It is also cheaper

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius


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Quoted from vicesgalore

No one has access to perfect knowledge, especially about the human body, i think a little humility is important here right?


It is not the specific supplements you are taking but your approach to healing whatever ailments you have that has caused some of us to be concerned.  

Your approach appears to be treating symptoms - and doing this by self medicating a large number of substances based on whatever background information you have access to.

For all we know you may have the well founded and detailed background knowledge to evaluate your sources and assess potential interaction of supplements - but then you may not!  

The combination of supplements you consume may in itself be causing some of your health issues.  Reading between the lines it appears that you have gradually built up your supplement consumption.  How do you know what your body would feel like if you did not take any one or all of them?  

As for supplements themselves - what about their ingredients?  Are they avoid free?  

What about the other BTD life style strategies?  Other (non food/supplement related) stressors may hinder your healing process...  

Just a few thoughts - to take or leave of course!

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I'm going to say one more time (that's it!) that IF a medical professional had prescribed all these supplements to you as treatment for a multitude of severe health problems, then at least you are protected by their educational background and knowledge.  

However, it seems that this is not the case, which means that you should be highly selective and critical about your information and prepared to take full responsibility for your choices.

I've taken vitamin A, astragalus, eleuthero root, zinc, herbs for the liver, prescription acne medication, b vitamins and lots of other supplements, sometimes in high doses.  But never for extended periods of time.  In the 5 years I've been on BTD and one year I've been in naturopathic college, I my opinion has changed on supplements.  I now believe that less is more and that higher doses of things is often less effective than lower doses.  

Plus, there are many, many other modalities to treat illness (TCM, homeopathy, energy work, hydrotherapy, massage, manipulation, psychological work, dietary therapy, physical fitness).  Unfortunately we still live in a society that wants a substance for every issue, and natural or not, this often does not lead to long-term healing.  It is SUPPLEMENTATION (filling in what is missing) only, not solving the mystery of WHY it is missing.  Supplements and substances are what is easily available to the public and can be used to self treat.  It's a lot harder to self-treat with other modalities and for some reason some people are not willing to pay for the vast knowledge and experience of educated practitioners.  I think this places an upper limit on what can be accomplished sometimes.


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Hopeful
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Hey Vicesgalore!
I have to comment on the amount of supplements you are taking too. I used to take tons of different things, people were always making fun of my vitamin cabinet.Some days I was taking 35-40 pills. The one thing I do know is that it is very hard on your liver and kidneys to process that amount of vitamins. I think it might be worth the try to reduce the vitamins ( not eliminate) and keep on with the diet.I feel amazingly better on 4 vitamins and A+D drops and 80 % compliant ( I follow Non-secretor diet) than when I was popping the pills trying to find the answer to why I felt bad all the time. I too used to break out all the time ( and I'm 37!!) until about 2 months ago when I really starting following the diet seriously. My skin is so clear and my pores are so small, I never could have believed the diet would make such a difference.
What do you use topically on your face??
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vicesgalore,

I apologize. In rereading this thread, I've had the opportunity to reflect on how the exchange has been going so far.  

In looking at your total posts, I'm gathering that this is your first participation on the forum; you don't know us and we don't know you.  Sometimes we forget about that, and don't take the time to thoughtfully respond.  You have asked several valid questions, and some of our answers to you could have been offered in a more sensitive and friendly fashion.  

I don't disagree with the information that's been offered to you so far regarding getting your secretor status, and other subtype information tested, as well as questioning your approach with so many supplements, however, I do feel that all of us, myself included could have welcomed your participation and questions with a much better tone.  We often forget that the written word doesn't always come across in the same manner and intent as the spoken word does.  I hope that you will continue to ask questions, and that the rest of the forum members will take the time to respond in a more thoughtful and gentler way.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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I agree with KK.  

I think things went awry after you posted your supplement list, which was shocking to me and obviously to several others.  I reacted very strongly to that and felt compelled to respond, but I could have been less aggressive.  I prefer straightforward communication and don't need some of the pleasantries that others do, but sometimes I forget that everyone is not this way.

I would ask that you not take this discussion as a personal attack on you, but an opportunity to learn and improve your own health.


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"I'm taking all these supplements, see how much money and time I've invested?  Why am I still having acne?"
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Quoted from Whimsical
I agree with KK.  

I think things went awry after you posted your supplement list, which was shocking to me and obviously to several others.  I reacted very strongly to that and felt compelled to respond, but I could have been less aggressive.  I prefer straightforward communication and don't need some of the pleasantries that others do, but sometimes I forget that everyone is not this way.

I would ask that you not take this discussion as a personal attack on you, but an opportunity to learn and improve your own health.



I just don't see how exactly taking the things I am taking can be bad for me? Is it bad to eat fresh cilantro every day? to drink green tea? eat grapes? eat nettles? eat pomegranates? eat tofu?

aren't supplements just making up for not eating everything we could eat? Ideally I would eat a ton of green veggies and fresh organic fish, lamb and turkey... I would like to move towards this goal long term.

What are the supplements I should phase out in the interest of improving my overall health? I could cut back on the R-ALA, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Nettles, etc..  I want everything in balance and have simplicity in my routine. I know I am taking too many pills now, but I'm not sure what to phase out and / or eliminate first.
many of the things I take can be found in a multi-vitamin, just I want to avoid the iodine found in most of them so I take things seperately. you really think the b-complex is too much? too much C?

I guess I am most worried about the effects of the beta glucans, nettle root, chasteberry fruit, and 7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree... anything than can influence hormones like testosterone and estrogen.

What if I switch to three of the cod liver oil per day instead of 8? Only take the R-ALA with higher carb meals? etc.....  i know moderation is key, but I am kinda overwelmed here with theories about health ( many of which seem to be conflicting)

thanks for your patience and compassion
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Supplements are often missing the co-factors which make the actual food so awesome, healing and powerful.  

Other ideas:

try the membrane fluidizer cocktail

cut out the supplements and try each one individually for a while to see what impact it has on your body.  With so many supplements at once, it is very difficult to identify ones that may be causing a problem.  Remember that there are other hidden ingredients such as corn starch in many supplements.

The supplements rob you of money that could be spent on delicious appetizing amazing whole foods with their co-factors and nutrients in tact.  A green tea pill will not notify my body to get ready for grabbing all the goodness from the tea!  When I see the tea, smell the tea and then taste the tea, my body gets the complete message.



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Sam Dan
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this to me is why you should have direction as whimsical has stated .... they will not only save you money in the long run, but will help you focus on health concerns vital to you.  For example: why are you taking ALA (or R-ALA at all - it should be K-RALA) and why acetyl-L-carnitine ... both are fantastic supplements that are likely not needed until age 60?

You are extremely bright and much of the info you have is superb .... understand though the nature of your acceptance ... of others towards you and (most important) of you towards you.  Fall in love with that part of you that-is-far-from-perfect and may always be.  Life is usually about how you handle the struggles that come your way.  Trying to dismiss all struggle is attempting to be machine-like and not human-like.

Sure hope this makes sense.  There is a friend I've met on this board (dancer) who is exceptionally bright.  She too got messed up ... but has incredible patience with herself.  It is a marvelous privilege to share ... joys, aspirations, ignorance, weakness, humility, pride ... young and old

we hope to help you befriend your world with health .... just takes time ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius


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Kyosha Nim
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To start: Secretor test, secretor test, secretor test.  This fine tunes the "general" Type AB diet towards your specific genetic profile.

Next, or at the same time: Other subtypes.

Finally, eliminate all Avoid foods, concentrate on making the diet 80-90% bennies, rounding out the other 10-20% with neutral foods.

Follow the other lifestyle recommendations for sleep, stress, and exercise.

And last, give these new directions some time, say, one to two months and see what happens.

Keep posting your questions.  We really are all here to help each other succeed in this new way of living and eating.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Ben_Lamers
Friday, February 2, 2007, 7:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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From my experience, supplements are BAD! (well not bad, but bad until proven GOOD!) i used to be taking about as many supplements as you thinking they can't be bad. well i did that for a long time and things kept going worse and worse. all in all i think they hurt me more than helped and once i found this forum i started getting better. part of the problem i found out through this forum was to practicaly just stop taking my supplements. i was so happy about this i wrote the date down. i stopped cold turkey all supplements September 23rd, 2006. never turned back. Just focused on the BTD. within a month i noticed a HUGE difference.

I hope you find out what works and what doesn't!

peace,

Ben
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Lola
Saturday, February 3, 2007, 2:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
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Ben,
that is a powerful testimonial, thanks for sharing your experience!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Alyona
Saturday, February 3, 2007, 5:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Summer: Realization, expansion.
Posts: 67
Gender: Female
Location: Russia
Age: 34
I drink camomile tea and close to never have acne. The friends who began to drink it after me and had skin impurities, report acne is either cleared out or almost gone.
...err&...actually it's one the top 10 Hollywood beauty secrets.. keep it private

Try it, "in package" with BT-compliant general health care it will work.


"Jam tomorrow and jam yesterday - but never jam today"

Eat low-carb for my type. Russian style.  
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ISA-MANUELA
Saturday, February 3, 2007, 9:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'd go for garlic and just some more zinkintake about 25 mg's daily and even MSM might be sometimes very helpful because it is only sulphur .....good luck
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vicesgalore
Saturday, February 10, 2007, 11:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hey all,

i've cutt out the supplements and have just been sticking to the diet; I must say that my skin is getting much worse every day now. I have no idea what the cause is, but clearly something I was taking was helping keep the acne at bay. Maybe the nettles? How can I naturally balance out my hormones and keep the inflamation down?
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KimonoKat
Saturday, February 10, 2007, 11:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,673
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Location: Sherman Oaks, California
Quoted from vicesgalore
hey all,

i've cutt out the supplements and have just been sticking to the diet; I must say that my skin is getting much worse every day now. I have no idea what the cause is, but clearly something I was taking was helping keep the acne at bay. Maybe the nettles? How can I naturally balance out my hormones and keep the inflamation down?


There is the possibility that you were supressing the release of stuff in your body for so long, that you have a lot of toxins to come out.  The skin is the biggest elimination organ.

I can't stress enough how important getting your secretor status tested is, if your acne is as bad as what you are sayng it is.  I had cystic acne for years.  Ever since I was a pre-teen.  It finally cleared up (in my mid 30's) when I did lots of colonics in conjunction with the herb Oregon Grape Extract, which helps to clean the blood.  It took many, many months to turn my skin around.

If it was me, the only supplements I would be taking right now would be the skin support protocol.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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koahiatamadl
Sunday, February 11, 2007, 11:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Hunter ISTJ
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 37
Quoted from vicesgalore

i've cutt out the supplements and have just been sticking to the diet; I must say that my skin is getting much worse every day now.


That was a big step and you are sticking with it despite the fact that your skin is getting worse at the moment.  

KK is right, it will take time for your body to balance itself.  Are you drinking plenty of water?  Are you following the non-dietary lifestyle recommendations? You could also read up on the liver flush.  The liver plays a vital role in elimination and detoxing...

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