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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, January 28, 2007, 5:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
back again
AB's...& BTD and acne...we, are more prone for the A's side...so far we do need further Vit. A or add some more provit. A; for this time I'd like to tell you, go for 10'000 I E daily of Vit. A and go for 4-6 times 500mg's of MSM after the meals or during meals ; then add dandelion or milk thistel to your
supps; and for fats, just a bit of oliveoil and ghee daily; a bit more of Vit. C and for sure some silicea; this stuff takes all badies outta your body, even in the deepest matrix it will be pulled out
that's all for the moment
good luck
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vicesgalore
Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 10:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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right now I am taking the following each day, along with eating the proper AB blood type diet.


Accutane (isotrentinoin) 10mg (every other day)

Double-Strength Cod Liver Oil (8 capsules per day) -- each one contains 2,500 IU vitamin A and 270IU Vitamin D -- that is about 20,000 IU Vitamin A each day!

Acetyl L-Carnitine  (500mg)x3
Doctor's Best Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid (100mg) x3
Dr. Trust Beta Glucans (250mg)x2
Free-Form L-Lysine (500mg)x1
NSI Ester-C with Quercetin & Bioflavonoids (500mg) x2
Vitamin B-125 Complex x1
Activated B-Complex High Bioavailability (1 capsule) x1
Triple Magnesium Complex (400mg) x1
Calcium Citrate & Vitamin D (630mg / 400IU)x1
Albion Complexed Selenium (200mcg) x1 Albion
Chelated Zinc  (30mg) x1
Vitamin E Mixed Tocopherols (400IU) x1
Chromium Picolinate (200mcg) x1
Folic Acid (800mcg) x1
Niacinamide (500mg)  x1

Swanson Condition Specific Formulas - Liver Essentials x1
Planetary Formulas Full Spectrum Astragalus Extract (500mg) x2
N-Acetyl Cysteine (600mg) x2
Chasteberry Fruit (400mg) x2
Nettle Root (500mg) x3
Biotin (5mg) x1  
7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree (40mg) x1
NSI Resveratrol Green Tea, C, Grape Complex x2
NSI PomActiv Pomegranate Extract (500mg) x2

Bioperine Nutrient Absorption Enhancer (10mg) x1
Eleuthero Root (425mg) x4

Spirulina Natural Whole Food Algae (1000mg) x2
Broken Cell Wall Chlorella (1000mg) x2
Coriander Cilantro (425mg) x2

ConAgra Foods Culturelle - Premier Probiotic w/ Lactobacillus GG x1
AbsorbAid Vegi Caps x6  (two with each meal)

Dual-Release Melatonin (3mg) x1

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Lola
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 5:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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wow!
that seems like a lot to me!

I would let my food be my medicine for a while and detox all those pills out of my system.......
I know you must have your reasons, but sometimes 'less is better'.

how long have you been eating right?
your body does need time and patience to adjust.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Whimsical
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 12:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
Quoted from vicesgalore
right now I am taking the following each day, along with eating the proper AB blood type diet.


Accutane (isotrentinoin) 10mg (every other day)

Double-Strength Cod Liver Oil (8 capsules per day) -- each one contains 2,500 IU vitamin A and 270IU Vitamin D -- that is about 20,000 IU Vitamin A each day!

Acetyl L-Carnitine  (500mg)x3
Doctor's Best Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid (100mg) x3
Dr. Trust Beta Glucans (250mg)x2
Free-Form L-Lysine (500mg)x1
NSI Ester-C with Quercetin & Bioflavonoids (500mg) x2
Vitamin B-125 Complex x1
Activated B-Complex High Bioavailability (1 capsule) x1
Triple Magnesium Complex (400mg) x1
Calcium Citrate & Vitamin D (630mg / 400IU)x1
Albion Complexed Selenium (200mcg) x1 Albion
Chelated Zinc  (30mg) x1
Vitamin E Mixed Tocopherols (400IU) x1
Chromium Picolinate (200mcg) x1
Folic Acid (800mcg) x1
Niacinamide (500mg)  x1

Swanson Condition Specific Formulas - Liver Essentials x1
Planetary Formulas Full Spectrum Astragalus Extract (500mg) x2
N-Acetyl Cysteine (600mg) x2
Chasteberry Fruit (400mg) x2
Nettle Root (500mg) x3
Biotin (5mg) x1  
7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree (40mg) x1
NSI Resveratrol Green Tea, C, Grape Complex x2
NSI PomActiv Pomegranate Extract (500mg) x2

Bioperine Nutrient Absorption Enhancer (10mg) x1
Eleuthero Root (425mg) x4

Spirulina Natural Whole Food Algae (1000mg) x2
Broken Cell Wall Chlorella (1000mg) x2
Coriander Cilantro (425mg) x2

ConAgra Foods Culturelle - Premier Probiotic w/ Lactobacillus GG x1
AbsorbAid Vegi Caps x6  (two with each meal)

Dual-Release Melatonin (3mg) x1



I just took a glance, but I have to comment on some of this.

Accutane - No, no, no.  Google Accutane to read all the possible harmful effects.  This is like using a sledgehammer to hit a tiny nail...

Vitamin A - You are taking FAR too much.  This can damage your liver long-term.

B-complex - You are taking 2 different ones, and extra B vits (folic acid, biotin, niacinamide) besides.  FAR too much.  Your urine is bright yellow, which means you are peeing most of those B vits out anyway.  Total waste of money and also potentially harmful to you.

Zinc - Not balanced by Copper intake, can cause copper deficiency.  Also interferes with absorption of Calcium.  Your daily dose is too high (15mg max) and taking zinc long-term can actually depress your immune system and cause taste/smell problems.

Liver Essentials - Clearly taking all these substances, you need liver support, but this should not be a long-term substance unless you have some sort of liver condition.  It simply adds more stuff for your liver to deal with.  Kind of counter-productive, eh?

Astragalus - Immune modulator.  Also not for daily use.

Eleuthero Root - Adaptogen.  Can be quite effective for short-term adrenal support, but long-term will have negative effects.  Helps you push your body further than it wants to go.  Eventually your body will force you to stop and rest.

Melatonin - 3mg is a higher dose and melatonin is a hormone which can be habit forming.  It should only be used occasionally because long-term use will impair your body's ability to synthsize it on its own.

Overall, you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen (all detoxification organs).  If these organs are impaired, your body will try to eliminate toxins via the skin.  Voila, you have acne.  

Advice: See a natural health practitioner and bring to them everything you are taking.  Seek their advice and follow it.

If you are not willing to seek professional knowledge, taper off all these substances gradually, adhere to the AB diet strictly, and ride out whatever detox your body needs to do.  This means NO supplements for a few weeks.  Then decide on what supplements can benefit you (probably only need a probiotic, multivit, calcium).


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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mandi
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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i've had bad cystic acne in the past and what helped me was an omega 3 complex.  it is basicly flax oil, fish oil, and borage oil.  it worked wonders for me.  If i get off the diet now though, just give it a few days and it's back again till i get on track.
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vicesgalore
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am taking an ultra-low dose of accutane, which has proven very effective for acne and rosacea.

Efficacy of Low-Dose Isotretinoin in Patients With Treatment-Resistant Rosacea
(Archives of Dermatology, Vol. 134 No. 7, July 199

Continuous 'microdose' isotretinoin in adult recalcitrant rosacea.
(Clin Exp Dermatol. 2004 Mar;29(2):204-5. )


I am not taking Vitamin A, I am taking Double Strength Cod Liver Oil; is taking 8 capsules per day going to be toxic to my liver?

Dr. Joseph Mercola says:
"Due to the commonly heard warnings that too much vitamin A is toxic and can result in birth defects, liver abnormalities, and reduced bone mineral density -- many people are afraid of taking too much of this nutrient.

What is rarely addressed, and must be considered along with these warnings, is the TYPE of vitamin A. There is a big difference between synthetic vitamin A and vitamin A from natural sources. Most cases of vitamin A toxicity result from an excess intake of synthetic vitamin A in supplements, NOT the natural form of retinol (vitamin A) found in cod liver oil.

Because cod liver oil contains vitamin D there's no need to worry about vitamin A toxicity if you take it in cod liver oil. It is virtually impossible to become toxic on vitamin A if you take it along with vitamin D. As evidenced in a study published in the December 2003 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, vitamin D is associated with reduced vitamin A toxicity, and the vitamin D appears to protect against retinal toxicity.

An anti-infective vitamin, vitamin A is useful for many conditions including vision problems, poor thyroid function, a weakened immune system, and fighting off infections, especially those that involve mucous membranes as vitamin A is used to form the cells lining the digestive, respiratory, reproductive and urinary tracts and all tissue linings of the body. Night blindness, dry eyes, eye infections and skin problems are just some of the conditions associated with Vitamin A deficiency."



15mg max? Who told you this value? I have heard values under 100mg/day are ok. You really think 30mg is excessive per day?

Astragalus and Eleuthero and not for daily use? I have adrenal issues and was told both of these supplements are effective for adrenal support


You said: "you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen."  
REALLY? I am taking things which are designed to help support those organs, things which are known to do such.

Ideally I could eat the perfect diet, but I do not think such a thing really exists anymore or is practical for anyone who doesn't have thousands of dollars to spend on organic food.






Quoted from Whimsical


I just took a glance, but I have to comment on some of this.

Accutane - No, no, no.  Google Accutane to read all the possible harmful effects.  This is like using a sledgehammer to hit a tiny nail...

Vitamin A - You are taking FAR too much.  This can damage your liver long-term.

B-complex - You are taking 2 different ones, and extra B vits (folic acid, biotin, niacinamide) besides.  FAR too much.  Your urine is bright yellow, which means you are peeing most of those B vits out anyway.  Total waste of money and also potentially harmful to you.

Zinc - Not balanced by Copper intake, can cause copper deficiency.  Also interferes with absorption of Calcium.  Your daily dose is too high (15mg max) and taking zinc long-term can actually depress your immune system and cause taste/smell problems.

Liver Essentials - Clearly taking all these substances, you need liver support, but this should not be a long-term substance unless you have some sort of liver condition.  It simply adds more stuff for your liver to deal with.  Kind of counter-productive, eh?

Astragalus - Immune modulator.  Also not for daily use.

Eleuthero Root - Adaptogen.  Can be quite effective for short-term adrenal support, but long-term will have negative effects.  Helps you push your body further than it wants to go.  Eventually your body will force you to stop and rest.

Melatonin - 3mg is a higher dose and melatonin is a hormone which can be habit forming.  It should only be used occasionally because long-term use will impair your body's ability to synthsize it on its own.

Overall, you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen (all detoxification organs).  If these organs are impaired, your body will try to eliminate toxins via the skin.  Voila, you have acne.  

Advice: See a natural health practitioner and bring to them everything you are taking.  Seek their advice and follow it.

If you are not willing to seek professional knowledge, taper off all these substances gradually, adhere to the AB diet strictly, and ride out whatever detox your body needs to do.  This means NO supplements for a few weeks.  Then decide on what supplements can benefit you (probably only need a probiotic, multivit, calcium).


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koahiatamadl
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Hunter ISTJ
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 568
Gender: Female
Location: Basel, CH
Age: 37
You take 35 different supplements a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why????????

Try to take a step back and look at the list!

Presumably you didn't start out with all 35 but added stuff as you read about it...

Ask yourself why you can't allow the idea that the advice you have received from Lola and Kate might be correct?

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KimonoKat
Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 9:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,662
Gender: Female
Location: Sherman Oaks, California
I'd seriously reconsider what Whimsical is telling you.  Whim is in Naturopathic College right now, studying to be an ND.  If it were me, and she was giving me advice, I'd sit up and pay attention.  But maybe that's just me.

I'm not saying that Mercola is wrong in his information that you are basing taking a "double dose" of this supplement on, but I tend to question anything that comes from him because his metabolic typing system is not based on anything you can measure in the body.  Besides, does anyone remember where Mercola got his mail away for it and get it quick diploma?



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Whimsical
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
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Posts: 1,213
Gender: Female
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
Well, you posted your list and asked for advice, so you got it!    After reading the list I felt the need to alert you to some possible risks.

I have not examined you as a patient, I don't know your health history, and I can't say what is right for you - that is your responsibility alone.  If you are seeing a practitioner who has prescribed these things for you and you are content with your health progress, wonderful.  Self-prescribing at this level is, in my opinion, ignorant and dangerous.  

Quoted from vicesgalore
I am taking an ultra-low dose of accutane, which has proven very effective for acne and rosacea.


I believe it is effective (the antibiotics and steroids I slathered on my face everyday for 6 years were very effective for my acne too), but it isn't solving the problem of WHY you have acne and rosacea.  Not only that, but by covering up your symptoms (which are valuable information on finding the root cause), you are setting yourself up for more serious problems later.  Allowing whatever is causing your acne and rosacea to remain unaddressed and unseen, you are allowing your body to continue in a chronic state of imbalance.  This can have permanent negative effects down the line.  

Quoted from vicesgalore
I am not taking Vitamin A, I am taking Double Strength Cod Liver Oil; is taking 8 capsules per day going to be toxic to my liver?


I'm not saying that this amount of vitamin A is going to kill you, but your liver and other organs must still process it.  That's extra work.  Keep that going for many years unnecessarily and you will prematurely age the organ.  There is lots of information out there to support the toxicity of vitamin A - do your own research.  A related example - diets high in beta carotene is associated with lower risk of cancer, however the isolated SUPPLEMENT form of beta carotene has actually been linked to INCREASED risk of cancer.  Food and supplement are not the same.  

Quoted from vicesgalore

15mg max? Who told you this value? I have heard values under 100mg/day are ok. You really think 30mg is excessive per day?


Here is a link from Dr. D re: zinc.

Quoted from vicesgalore

Astragalus and Eleuthero and not for daily use? I have adrenal issues and was told both of these supplements are effective for adrenal support.


Who told you this?  A qualified health practitioner?  If so, go with their advice.  If not, see a practitioner and check it out.  Anyone can give advice, but ultimately they are not responsible for what happens to you and will not be paying the price for mistakes.

There is a fine line between supporting the adrenals (while you rest, heal, and give them the time they need to recover from years of overwork) and propping up a failing gland.  These supplements can be beneficial, but you should not be dependent on them (ie: long-term daily use) for your adrenals to function.  Again, a case in which it is possible to mask the real issue and possibly cause irreversible damage.

Quoted from vicesgalore

You said: "you are bombarding your body with substances which is going to put a huge load on you kidney, liver, and spleen."  
REALLY? I am taking things which are designed to help support those organs, things which are known to do such.


Why do you need such support?  Why can your organs not function on their own?  Why do you think that your body doesn't have to do work to deal with the onslaught of chemicals it is receiving every day?

Again I ask, were you prescribed these supplements by a qualified pracitioner?  Even if you were, I would still seek a 2nd opinion because this is a very long list of substances.  

Quoted from vicesgalore

Ideally I could eat the perfect diet, but I do not think such a thing really exists anymore or is practical for anyone who doesn't have thousands of dollars to spend on organic food.


I agree, but we all must do the best we can.  There is a wide variety of healthy, nutrient-rich food out there.  Supplements are appealing and can have great effects, but there are risks too.  I urge you to do your own research.  Here are some great resources about foods and nutrients:

World's Healthiest Foods website
Prescription for Nutritional Healing
The Encyclopedia of Healing Foods


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Revision History (3 edits)
koahiatamadl  -  Thursday, February 1, 2007, 2:14am
koahiatamadl  -  Thursday, February 1, 2007, 2:13am
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Vicki
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Using Custom SWAMI Food List
Sun Beh Nim
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I just wanted to mention that when you start with food, rather than supplements, you bring your body into balance.  Slowly and by listening...

The money you save on supplements will be better spent on high quality food, organic or not.
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vicesgalore
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 5:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat
I'd seriously reconsider what Whimsical is telling you.  Whim is in Naturopathic College right now, studying to be an ND.  If it were me, and she was giving me advice, I'd sit up and pay attention.  But maybe that's just me.

I'm not saying that Mercola is wrong in his information that you are basing taking a "double dose" of this supplement on, but I tend to question anything that comes from him because his metabolic typing system is not based on anything you can measure in the body.  Besides, does anyone remember where Mercola got his mail away for it and get it quick diploma?




now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College??? it seems kind of arrogant, don't you think?
even the top doctors and experts in the world disagree on many medical issues; the body is extremely complex and someone in college cannot claim to have such infallible insight.


everything i've read says cod liver oil is safe at those levels, because of the vitamin D, and because it is a "natural" source; it seems a little absurd to throw around criticism without citing evidence.  


I researched the copper issue and will integrate 2mg/day because of the zinc I am taking.

I have tried through diet alone for months and years to become healthy (even very extreme diets approved by Dr. Charles Moss in La Jolla)... but I believe I need supplements to bring my back up to speed, and when I feel like I am where I need to be (clear skin, more daytime energy/focus), then of course I will wean myself off those supplements (they are quite expensive after all)

No one has access to perfect knowledge, especially about the human body, i think a little humility is important here right?


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KimonoKat
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 6:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Location: Sherman Oaks, California
Quoted Text


now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College??? it seems kind of arrogant, don't you think?


In your initial post, you asked about the BTD and acne.  You started a thread asking for advice about cooking oils.  Later posts you decribed all the supplements you were taking, and you have received some excellent advice about those supplements.  The information that you provided to support your position is "one size fits all" information, and the BTD is quite different; it's about individuality.  The basis for the diet is our genetic differences.  Many who responded to you have been following this way of living and eating for quite a number of years, and are exceptionally knowledgeable about the diet, and alternative health care in general.

If you don't feel the information you have received is relevant or applies to you, that's your choice to disregard it.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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vicesgalore
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 6:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat


In your initial post, you asked about the BTD and acne.  You started a thread asking for advice about cooking oils.  Later posts you decribed all the supplements you were taking, and you have received some excellent advice about those supplements.  The information that you provided to support your position is "one size fits all" information, and the BTD is quite different; it's about individuality.  The basis for the diet is our genetic differences.  Many who responded to you have been following this way of living and eating for quite a number of years, and are exceptionally knowledgeable about the diet, and alternative health care in general.

If you don't feel the information you have received is relevant or applies to you, that's your choice to disregard it.


certainly its my choice to disregard, and its my choice to critique as well. it seems like your position might lead to the conlusion that there are no absolutes? everyone is different, an individual, and therefore we cannot really say anything concrete? do you believ in logic, order, and causality in the universe? If so, then we can have a meaningful dialogue; even about things extraordinarily complex like the human body and the diversity of genetics.

The information I provided was not intended to be "one size fits all", that is an overstatement for sure, but it should also be noted that the information I received was put forth in a similiar blanketing like manner. I simply ask for the reasoning behind those blanket statements to be put forth in an intelligible manner with the proper sources cited if appropiate. this way we can all benefit and learn together in a community of mutual respect and support, right?



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Whimsical
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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from vicesgalore

now i have to listen to her, because she in enrolled in Naturopathic College???


Of course you don't have to listen to me!

Quoted from vicesgalore
everything i've read says cod liver oil is safe at those levels, because of the vitamin D, and because it is a "natural" source; it seems a little absurd to throw around criticism without citing evidence.


Well, then perhaps it is.  Perhaps it isn't.  I guess it depends on the quality of your sources.  While there is lots of information on the internet, not all of it is good.  One of the biggest things I have learned since starting school is that the information available to laypeople on the net is pretty poor.  Health practitioners not only have access to exponentially more and better information, but they also have the education in chemistry, biology, physiology, etc to understand it.

If you want to get more information from the net, try Pubmed, or Cochrane Library, for example.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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resting
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 1:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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Age: 67
Hi vicesgalore,

as someone who has many more nutrients than those you list, there is another way to proceed ... [Whimsical will not run into it in any course offered but her brief reading seems quite impressive!].  Here is something to try: because your body does adapt to the high concentrations in supplements (most meds too), a medical professor swore off all these concentrates for 1 day each week.

I also eat foods (and use supplements) primarily on a seasonal basis.  Our bodies do tend to fluctuate rhythmically from one year to the next.  To function optimally, I attempt to match my intake to support the kinds of things the body does naturally.

Eg. > colostrum >> (the 'up' -side) SPRING >> SUMMER >> (the 'down'-side) autumn >> winter >

So besides colostrum at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tbrl/colpow.html, StemEnhance http://www.stemenhance.com + CGF (chlorella growth factor at www.shokos .com) likely will help tremendously. Likely lecithin + black currant seed oil  + AA at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mn/xfactor.html and (DHA) via Neuromins are good.

following this - it's orient towards generating and improving the immune system: eggs; mini-carrots are supplemented with Seacure, sprouts, dry grasses, flowers, etc. Ghee and probiotics are very good.

then there is Summer- the high point of metabolism - high protein intake especially fish ... also thyroid and adrenals kick-in to give greater support for muscle work and peak the immune system to counter infection from flying insects.  C-chlorella at http://www.shokos.com goes a long way as this season's perfect food.  Berries help here too.  Foods high in iodine are best here: http://www.umac-core.com for phytoplankton may assist.  Oil of choice is olive oil; almond oil too.

followed by autumn - this season is about harvest, completion - so vegetables are accented (a few fruits like apples/pears are good here).  Oil supplements are flax and/or chia seeds.  Its also the time for a whole range of adaptogens ... like Maca.

last is winter - much of this season is about rest and very low needs for any supplement.  Root veggies are supplemented by nutritional yeast, and in late winter cod liver oil.  Other oil supplements ... fish oils.  Silicea is very good here for skin health

Using this concept it is possible to maximize the intake of many substances and minimize too much interference.  It is also cheaper

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius


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koahiatamadl
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 2:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Hunter ISTJ
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 568
Gender: Female
Location: Basel, CH
Age: 37
Quoted from vicesgalore

No one has access to perfect knowledge, especially about the human body, i think a little humility is important here right?


It is not the specific supplements you are taking but your approach to healing whatever ailments you have that has caused some of us to be concerned.  

Your approach appears to be treating symptoms - and doing this by self medicating a large number of substances based on whatever background information you have access to.

For all we know you may have the well founded and detailed background knowledge to evaluate your sources and assess potential interaction of supplements - but then you may not!  

The combination of supplements you consume may in itself be causing some of your health issues.  Reading between the lines it appears that you have gradually built up your supplement consumption.  How do you know what your body would feel like if you did not take any one or all of them?  

As for supplements themselves - what about their ingredients?  Are they avoid free?  

What about the other BTD life style strategies?  Other (non food/supplement related) stressors may hinder your healing process...  

Just a few thoughts - to take or leave of course!

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koahiatamadl  -  Thursday, February 1, 2007, 2:30pm
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Whimsical
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 3:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
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Age: 34
I'm going to say one more time (that's it!) that IF a medical professional had prescribed all these supplements to you as treatment for a multitude of severe health problems, then at least you are protected by their educational background and knowledge.  

However, it seems that this is not the case, which means that you should be highly selective and critical about your information and prepared to take full responsibility for your choices.

I've taken vitamin A, astragalus, eleuthero root, zinc, herbs for the liver, prescription acne medication, b vitamins and lots of other supplements, sometimes in high doses.  But never for extended periods of time.  In the 5 years I've been on BTD and one year I've been in naturopathic college, I my opinion has changed on supplements.  I now believe that less is more and that higher doses of things is often less effective than lower doses.  

Plus, there are many, many other modalities to treat illness (TCM, homeopathy, energy work, hydrotherapy, massage, manipulation, psychological work, dietary therapy, physical fitness).  Unfortunately we still live in a society that wants a substance for every issue, and natural or not, this often does not lead to long-term healing.  It is SUPPLEMENTATION (filling in what is missing) only, not solving the mystery of WHY it is missing.  Supplements and substances are what is easily available to the public and can be used to self treat.  It's a lot harder to self-treat with other modalities and for some reason some people are not willing to pay for the vast knowledge and experience of educated practitioners.  I think this places an upper limit on what can be accomplished sometimes.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Hopeful
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hey Vicesgalore!
I have to comment on the amount of supplements you are taking too. I used to take tons of different things, people were always making fun of my vitamin cabinet.Some days I was taking 35-40 pills. The one thing I do know is that it is very hard on your liver and kidneys to process that amount of vitamins. I think it might be worth the try to reduce the vitamins ( not eliminate) and keep on with the diet.I feel amazingly better on 4 vitamins and A+D drops and 80 % compliant ( I follow Non-secretor diet) than when I was popping the pills trying to find the answer to why I felt bad all the time. I too used to break out all the time ( and I'm 37!!) until about 2 months ago when I really starting following the diet seriously. My skin is so clear and my pores are so small, I never could have believed the diet would make such a difference.
What do you use topically on your face??
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KimonoKat
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 4:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,662
Gender: Female
Location: Sherman Oaks, California
vicesgalore,

I apologize. In rereading this thread, I've had the opportunity to reflect on how the exchange has been going so far.  

In looking at your total posts, I'm gathering that this is your first participation on the forum; you don't know us and we don't know you.  Sometimes we forget about that, and don't take the time to thoughtfully respond.  You have asked several valid questions, and some of our answers to you could have been offered in a more sensitive and friendly fashion.  

I don't disagree with the information that's been offered to you so far regarding getting your secretor status, and other subtype information tested, as well as questioning your approach with so many supplements, however, I do feel that all of us, myself included could have welcomed your participation and questions with a much better tone.  We often forget that the written word doesn't always come across in the same manner and intent as the spoken word does.  I hope that you will continue to ask questions, and that the rest of the forum members will take the time to respond in a more thoughtful and gentler way.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Whimsical
Thursday, February 1, 2007, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 1,213
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
I agree with KK.  

I think things went awry after you posted your supplement list, which was shocking to me and obviously to several others.  I reacted very strongly to that and felt compelled to respond, but I could have been less aggressive.  I prefer straightforward communication and don't need some of the pleasantries that others do, but sometimes I forget that everyone is not this way.

I would ask that you not take this discussion as a personal attack on you, but an opportunity to learn and improve your own health.


MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Vicki
Friday, February 2, 2007, 4:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Using Custom SWAMI Food List
Sun Beh Nim
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"I'm taking all these supplements, see how much money and time I've invested?  Why am I still having acne?"
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vicesgalore
Friday, February 2, 2007, 6:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Whimsical
I agree with KK.  

I think things went awry after you posted your supplement list, which was shocking to me and obviously to several others.  I reacted very strongly to that and felt compelled to respond, but I could have been less aggressive.  I prefer straightforward communication and don't need some of the pleasantries that others do, but sometimes I forget that everyone is not this way.

I would ask that you not take this discussion as a personal attack on you, but an opportunity to learn and improve your own health.



I just don't see how exactly taking the things I am taking can be bad for me? Is it bad to eat fresh cilantro every day? to drink green tea? eat grapes? eat nettles? eat pomegranates? eat tofu?

aren't supplements just making up for not eating everything we could eat? Ideally I would eat a ton of green veggies and fresh organic fish, lamb and turkey... I would like to move towards this goal long term.

What are the supplements I should phase out in the interest of improving my overall health? I could cut back on the R-ALA, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Nettles, etc..  I want everything in balance and have simplicity in my routine. I know I am taking too many pills now, but I'm not sure what to phase out and / or eliminate first.
many of the things I take can be found in a multi-vitamin, just I want to avoid the iodine found in most of them so I take things seperately. you really think the b-complex is too much? too much C?

I guess I am most worried about the effects of the beta glucans, nettle root, chasteberry fruit, and 7-Hmrlignans from Norwegian Spruce Tree... anything than can influence hormones like testosterone and estrogen.

What if I switch to three of the cod liver oil per day instead of 8? Only take the R-ALA with higher carb meals? etc.....  i know moderation is key, but I am kinda overwelmed here with theories about health ( many of which seem to be conflicting)

thanks for your patience and compassion
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Vicki
Friday, February 2, 2007, 12:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Using Custom SWAMI Food List
Sun Beh Nim
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Supplements are often missing the co-factors which make the actual food so awesome, healing and powerful.  

Other ideas:

try the membrane fluidizer cocktail

cut out the supplements and try each one individually for a while to see what impact it has on your body.  With so many supplements at once, it is very difficult to identify ones that may be causing a problem.  Remember that there are other hidden ingredients such as corn starch in many supplements.

The supplements rob you of money that could be spent on delicious appetizing amazing whole foods with their co-factors and nutrients in tact.  A green tea pill will not notify my body to get ready for grabbing all the goodness from the tea!  When I see the tea, smell the tea and then taste the tea, my body gets the complete message.



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koahiatamadl  -  Friday, February 2, 2007, 12:50pm
koahiatamadl  -  Friday, February 2, 2007, 12:47pm
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resting
Friday, February 2, 2007, 1:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,797
Gender: Male
Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Age: 67
this to me is why you should have direction as whimsical has stated .... they will not only save you money in the long run, but will help you focus on health concerns vital to you.  For example: why are you taking ALA (or R-ALA at all - it should be K-RALA) and why acetyl-L-carnitine ... both are fantastic supplements that are likely not needed until age 60?

You are extremely bright and much of the info you have is superb .... understand though the nature of your acceptance ... of others towards you and (most important) of you towards you.  Fall in love with that part of you that-is-far-from-perfect and may always be.  Life is usually about how you handle the struggles that come your way.  Trying to dismiss all struggle is attempting to be machine-like and not human-like.

Sure hope this makes sense.  There is a friend I've met on this board (dancer) who is exceptionally bright.  She too got messed up ... but has incredible patience with herself.  It is a marvelous privilege to share ... joys, aspirations, ignorance, weakness, humility, pride ... young and old

we hope to help you befriend your world with health .... just takes time ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius


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koahiatamadl  -  Saturday, February 3, 2007, 11:13am
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KimonoKat
Friday, February 2, 2007, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,662
Gender: Female
Location: Sherman Oaks, California
To start: Secretor test, secretor test, secretor test.  This fine tunes the "general" Type AB diet towards your specific genetic profile.

Next, or at the same time: Other subtypes.

Finally, eliminate all Avoid foods, concentrate on making the diet 80-90% bennies, rounding out the other 10-20% with neutral foods.

Follow the other lifestyle recommendations for sleep, stress, and exercise.

And last, give these new directions some time, say, one to two months and see what happens.

Keep posting your questions.  We really are all here to help each other succeed in this new way of living and eating.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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