About a month ago, I caught the edge of my shoe on a paving stone, lost my balance and fell full force on my left patella (knee cap).  I did not hit cement; I hit hard dirt.  I immediately applied TRAUMEEL® and DMSO to my kneecap.  For the next week or so, it seemed to be okay.  I did not have pain when I walked or bending, I just could not put and weight directly on my knee.  But it didn't seem to be improving and Victoria helped me adjust/up my intake of natural anti-inflammatories.

The knee is not improving and the swelling just seems to be more noticable.  I don't have pain when walking or sitting, I just have tightness because of this massive amount of swelling right above the patella, right about where the vastus lateralis of the quadrriceps femoris merges into the patella tendon.  I have tenderness when getting up from a chair.  I have pain when I have to get down on my knees (so I try to avoid getting down on that knee) when I have to clean the litter boxes, or crawl in the attic to get fabric.

Mr. KK feels I need to go see my regular doctor in the hopes that she will approve referal to an orthopod, instead of trying to treat this herself (which is what she did with my request for a specialist to test for food allergies).  The thought is that I might have torn one of the many knee ligaments.

I'm taking on an empty stomach  2 Deflect, 1,500 mg of Bromelain and 600mg of Quercetin twice a day.

Should I give the Bromelain, Quercetin & Deflect a bit longer, or bit the bullet and go see this doctor that I can no longer stand, and whom I will probably have fight with to get a referral?

Oh, Betsy, I feel for you so.  The health care system is so unfriendly in terms of obtaining health care from it.  And I detest my primary care doctor, too and feel that she has shed zero light on anything I would have hoped she would shed light on, plus has taught me that both she and her office are actively hostile to a patient who asks questions, let alone to the idea of a collaborative approach to health between doctor and patient.  So, I get it.  And I take it from your post that your "health care plan", and I use the term loosely, is of the standard gatekeeper variety that requires referrals from your PCP for everything?  The crowning glory of ours is that it does not.  We can go to a specialist without a referral.  The trick is figuring out what specialists are covered and for what purposes, etc.  The plan does not have a traditional "benefits booklet", and when you go on the web, what little info is there comes complete with asterisks every few moments which refer you to small print saying "See your benefits book for accurate and specific information."  Would do, if such an animal existed.  ANYWAY:

All that said, I think you maybe should go try to get that referral.  Tell the (&*#*# that you want a REFERRAL and you aren't interested in her treating it, PERIOD.  Tell 'er, fork it over or I'm outta here as far as this knee thing goes, those are the options.  I'm one to talk because I have yet to go to a podiatrist about what I think is plantar fasciitis but really I don't know WHAT it is, and I need to go.  But I detest accessing the "health care system" (again, term used loosely) unless I have a limb hanging off.  Recently (September) when I actually tried to go to the doctor about an actual concern, I got the hostility machine directed at me full bore and after multiple trips to a disgusting and horrid lab for tests, nunudoc had no idea what the prob was, so everything is clear as mud, plus I think she has no clue about OB/gyn matters, PLUS one thing that DID become clear and that I DID learn is that I can't stand her as a doctor.  So again, I totally understand that you are hesitant to go in!  But I think, from what you posted, that it would be a good idea.  Also, I think you are doing all the right things now (although I'm not sure about the DMSO...but I don't know much about that).  The Bromelain sounds particularly good.  You might also want to start downing some glucosamine sulfate.

Good luck!!!  

Quoted Text

I'm one to talk because I have yet to go to a podiatrist about what I think is plantar fasciitis but really I don't know WHAT it is, and I need to go.

Have Dr. Rod (ron? rod?) your chrio, fit your for orthodics.  That's the cheapest, least expensive way to go.  My chrio did for me, and it totally fixed/cured the heel spurs & plantar fascitis pain.  Chiro is doing it for Mr. KK and his foot pain.  

You stand in these boxes with foam in them that mold to your feet.  Then he sends those off to the company and they make you insoles specifically for your feet.  Most chiropractors out here use them.  The company is called "Levelers" or something with that in the name.

I am on an HMO plan.  Have to go through the gate keeper for everything except mental health and gyno health. But once you're assigned to a particular medical group, they will only refer into that group. It's a pisser.  I'd like to go see my old sports injury orthopod but there is no way that she will do that.


Glucosamine Sulfate.  I was under the impression that N-acetyl glucosamine was the superior form of G. Sulfate and that's why it's in Deflect.  Am I wrong about that anyone?

As I understand it, the form of glucosamine in Deflect is superior for "lectin scrubbing" and the form called glucosamine sulfate is superior for building/repairing cartilege.

As for Dr. Rod (you had it right!), he wants me to see a podiatrist.  I want me to see a podiatrist.  But I've been so consistently--traumatized is not too strong a word, especially going back to my Maryland days--by the health care system that I just tend not to go unless I am unable to function at all.  Even when I WANT to go, I am still in deer-in-headlights mode.  And I think that recently I'm like this again because I DID try between Feb. and Sept. of this year to find a PCP and work with her and I detest BOTH of the ones I tried!  Like, DETEST, Betsy.  As in, can't work with this second one, either.  I will keep my promise to myself after the vertigo and I will keep a PCP on the books and I will go once per year.  But other than that, I'm back in my shell hiding from the health care system, for the most part.

I do think that you, as a normal person versus a nutjob like myself, should go, though.  This sounds like you at least will be better off knowing what you are dealing with.  No one says you have to do what these people say.  If I go to a podiatrist, my greeting is going to be "No cortizone shots, let's get that straight before you come any closer!"

P.S.  KK, read this:

http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000261.htm

KK,
I buy a lot of chinese herbs from a wonderful company in Calif. called Dragon Herbs.  Their shipping is pretty fast if you get in your order before 1 pm.  One of their formulas that I keep on hand is called Frame Builder.  It comes in bottles of 100 caps, for $27:

"Frame Builder can strengthen the structural framework of the body. The formula may be used by those who wish to strengthen bones, tendons and ligaments. It is suitable for those who suffer chronic joint pain, lower back pain, knee pain, etc. It is especially suited to those who are recovering from traumatic injury to bone, ligament and/or tendon. It can strengthen the lower back and knees and is an ideal tonic for those who experience low back or knee pain due to exhaustion."

They also sell concentrated tinctures of Eucommia Bark, which is the primary ingredient in Frame Builder.  Sometimes I just keep the Eucommia.  These are effective formulas.  Give a call to them at 800-558-6642 and ask to speak to Heather, their master herbalist.  She is a treasure.  She knows me by my other name, but feel free to tell her you are a friend of mind.  

Heather answered the call and she recommeneded another forumlar in conjunction with the Frame Builder.  "Sho~wu" so I ordered that, too.  Hopefully, it will be here by tomorrow.

I'm going to give this new treatment a week or so before I go see the doc.

{{{{Thanks so much dear friend!)))))

on glucosamine s. and NA G

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Dr D
both have an
amino sugar backbone (glucosamine) they are
not related structurally, and glucosamine
sulphate (while it might be helpful for
arthritis) will not "fit" the specificity
requirements for wheat germ agglutinin, which
binds only to the "n-acetylated form.

Thank you Lola.  It never ceases to amaze me your ability to find relevant information.

hope you get positive results soon, kk! )

keep that knee bandaged to avoid movement.....a heating pad might help a few times a day.

KK,]
I'm so glad you reached Heather.  She has been a great teacher to me on all things chinese herbal-like!    Her knowledge is tremendous, along with her subtle understanding.

It's great that she suggested Shou Wu.  I had those thoughts also, because the Frame Builder formula is Yang in nature, and it occurred to me that you needed a good foundation yin formula to balance it.  But, since F.B. is not excessively yang, I felt that it would do no harm, and I didn't want to overwhelm you.  Good luck with the tonics, and hopefully the damage is something that will respond to this addition to your wellness program.  Even if not, the herbs will be very good for your body in all the other aches and pains you deal with!  

Quoted from lola

hope you get positive results soon, kk! )

keep that knee bandaged to avoid movement.....a heating pad might help a few times a day.

Ah I wish that was possible...not to move my knee.  Too many kitty litter pans to clean on a daily basis I'm afraid.  I was under the impression that heat was not good for swelling?  That ice was the preferred treatment.

The thing is, I've had little to no pain.  Today was the first time while standing that I had some unusual shooting pains, and they were only for a few seconds and then stopped.  Mostly it's just the tightness from the increased swelling.  WE took a 1.5 mile walk on Sunday and I had no pain or discomfort during that.

I believe cold works initially, like for the first 24 hours, but then warm compresses aid the swelling......at least that s how it is with post surgery.......first cold, then warm....
and if you could add some drops of arnica extract to your warm water, the better.