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Cholesterol Through the Roof!  This thread currently has 1,689 views. Print Print Thread
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Elizabeth1528
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Just got my cholesterol checked after being off of Lipitor for one month because of muscle cramping.  My cholesterol is over 300!!!  The worst it's ever been!!!

My cholesterol has been manageable with a 10mg, but now the Doc wants me on Lipitor 40mg.  I don't want to do it because I think it's what caused my cramping (of which I've been having still, but much milder).

I've been doing this diet, 90% compliant during the week and 60% compliant during the weekend, for about 3 months.

I am taking CoQ10, magnesium, potassium, calcium, and the "o" vitamins.  I work out 5 times a week, average, and drink lots of pineapple juice (yummy)

I do not know my secretor status, as i have not tested yet (a little expensive), even though my thingy says I am a secretor.

HELP!  I HATE TO MEDICATE!

Also, just to let you know, since doing the diet my teeth have very little plaque!

Thanks in Advance!

Revision History (4 edits)
Elizabeth1528  -  Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:49pm
Elizabeth1528  -  Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:49pm
Elizabeth1528  -  Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:48pm
Elizabeth1528  -  Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:48pm
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Lola
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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try going grain free as well as low carb for a while.....see if that changes anything.

read through the cardio book food lists......those might be of help.

some of your neutrals may turn up to be 'infrequent neutrals'.....check in your local library.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Susana
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 9:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Since you do not know your secretor status I would (as Lola says) go very low on grains.

Which foods make you non compliant? Ei. Which avoids do you eat? Are you currently eating portion/frequency sugestions by Dr. D.?

Best wishes,

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Debra+
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 9:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Elizabeth1528-you say you drink alot of pineapple juice.  How much is alot?  The sugar in it may be a bit too much for you.  Especially since you don't know your secretor status.  What about drinking teas(with little or no sweetner) and water.  

Debra


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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 10:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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please take the most important amount of B3 Niacin flush free and add a lighter Bcomplex with it...
that's all ....and have a look how quick it will be downed .....no lipitor...please ...this is da bombe with
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geminisue
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 10:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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If your dr. increased your dose of Lipitor knowing that the lower amount gave you cramps,  I would get a new dr.  This is the reaction I had and my doctor told me to stop taking it immediately and mark it down as an allergy.

Have you stopped eating meat from a pig completely?  Did you eat shrimp or lobster or several eggs, the day or two before the test? ( if so it may be a  false reading)


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Elizabeth1528  -  Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 10:43pm
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Victoria
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 10:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Look into Guggul.  It's effective at lowering Chlosterol.  Also an herb called Gynostemma (Jiaogulan).
Oh, and also Reishi.  Dr. D mentions Reishi on p. 575 of The Encyclopedia as lowering LDL and triglyceride levels.

You can get Guggul in any good natural foods store.

My favorite source for high quality chinese herbs is Dragonherbs, out of Santa Monica Calif.  Here's their toll-free number, and ask for Heather, their master herbalist.  888 558-6642

They sell Reishi or Gynostemma as separate herbs, or they have a great formula called CardioPro 2000 which contains them in one formula.  I took this, along with Guggul, when my cholesterol went up to 288 a few years ago.  It is now down to 214, and my ratio is very healthy.  I have discontinued the Guggul, and still take the Reishi and Gynostemma.

If you drink coffee, that can raise your chlosterol.



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Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Lola
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 11:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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the cardiovascular disease book,
recommending green tea, guggul and niacin
(under supervision) for lowering cholesterol in type O.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Elizabeth1528
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Great stuff, and a lot to think about.  The nurse who gave me the results said that she had mentioned to the doctor that the cramps are still present, and also said she would tell him again-that it was a crazy day-to make sure this is the path he wants to take.  I am going to tell him that I do not want to do the lipitor.

I had to stop typing because my doctor just called (its 7:30pm at night!).  He said he knows about the cramps, and he said to try the following for the next 6 weeks:

B6
B12
Folic Acid
Red Yeast Rice

How about that!

Quoted from ISA-MANUELA
please take the most important amount of B3 Niacin flush free and add a lighter Bcomplex with it...
that's all ....and have a look how quick it will be downed .....no lipitor...please ...this is da bombe with


What is the B3 niacin flush?

I drink about 32 ounces of pineapple juice a day.  Red meat all the time, veggies and a little bit of fruit besides the pineapple (grapes, bananas).

I have essentially eliminated wheat, haven't had pork in 3 months, little or no dairy.  The thought of eliminating grains is daunting.  I felt like I was doing great eliminating wheat/flour. I love my rice!
And, no, I haven't been adhering to the amounts.  I'm still in the butterfly fields!

I really must find out my secretor status.  I've been doing this diet, like I said before, with one foot in (the biggest foot!) and one foot out (a really small foot).  I've felt really great, lots of energy, and a lot less plaque!  I've even finally lost 5 pounds!

Oy...Here we go on another adventure!
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Victoria
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 1:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Elizabeth,
Those supplements are good ones, and I'm impressed he came up with that idea!  
Red Rice Yeast is supposed to be very effective and works similarly to Lipitor.  If it isn't enough, consider the Guggul.

I think 32 oz is a lot of Pineapple juice.  

There is a great B12 supplement called No Shot by Superior Source.  It is sublingual (melts under the tongue and goes straight into the bloodstream).  The type of B12 is Methylcobalamin, which is the best type.  Most supplements use a diffrent one, called Cyanocobalamin, which is an inferior product.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Elizabeth1528
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 1:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The Vitamin Shoppe has a RYR and Guggul combo, and Nature's Way has a heart supplement with  reishi, b6, b12, folic acid and other goodie in it.

I'll be trying that for now...

THANKS EVERYONE!
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Debra+
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 1:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Elizabeth1528-glad to hear that your doctor has come up with some supplements other than prescription drugs.  

And...I think 32 oz. of pineapple juice is a lot also.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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Victoria
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 2:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Good luck, Elizabeth.  Those sound like good formulas.  

Keep us posted on how you're doing, or just come round to visit.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Janet
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 8:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hi Elizabeth,
My husband would like to use something other than meds re cholesterol, so I wondered how you were doing on the above recommendations...any feedback yet??


Janet
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the accidental chef
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 8:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Elizabeth1528
The Vitamin Shoppe has a RYR and Guggul combo, and Nature's Way has a heart supplement with  reishi, b6, b12, folic acid and other goodie in it.

I'll be trying that for now...

THANKS EVERYONE!


How is it now Elizabeth? My blood report came back with my cholesterol @ 300, too! I started a thread..and got great advise from everyone. I was given Lipitor and it was havoc! I stopped it immediately, started BTD, and am waiting for the 20th Nov to go for my next blood test. I'm an ex-vegetarian..and that contributed to this situation I'm told.

Just wanted to know how you were fairing...

accidental chef

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yaman
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 9:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from Elizabeth1528

I've been doing this diet, 90% compliant during the week and 60% compliant during the weekend, for about 3 months.


Hi Elizabeth,

60% compliance means 40% avoid during the weekend, right? I regret to say that that is a little too much, given your health condition. Your body is then working hard trying to eliminate those harmful stuff during the whole week! Keep in mind that not all lectin damage is repaired overnight. For example intestinal cells need 14 days for replacement, meaning that your digestion is continuously compromised, you are not helping your metabolism with your current regimen, and that's aggravating the problem.

With all due respect, I'd recommend you to go at least 90% beneficial, weekends included. As per Lola's recommendations, please stay away from grains and dairy.

You will see the difference before long, once you stick to beneficials and stay away from all avoids.

Cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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ISA-MANUELA
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 9:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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dear Elizabeth, there is Nicain named B3 and without beeing treated , it gives flushes when you take it more up from 50-75 mg's so ther's a treatened B3 = flush free called ... and if you add about 50mg's of Bcomplex (a mixup inwhich from every B vit. is 50mg's in) so I think that would do the trick;
but there's a difference between Nictotinamide and Niacin, thats' why Niacin does *the trick*
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resting
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 12:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi folks - Elizabeth and accidental chef,

High cholesterol readings do not indicate a heart problem, but an artery problem ...  the body uses cholesterol to seal lesions in arteries ... something like scabs on the skin.  So the high reading often indicate a lot of cuts or very thin artery walls.

Any statin (and red rice yeast is a 'natural' statin) besides lowering cholesterol, also interferes with CoQ10 and therefore a minimum of 100mg CoQ10 is needed if any statin is used.  Note: the statins lower cholesterol, but do not heal the lesions.  (maybe why you got cramping-pain?????

accidental chef's old vegetarian diet is showing its long-time weakness here.  Bone broth and lots of sinuhe in the broth + Linus Pauling's vitamin C regime at http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/ ............. it's vit C + L-lysine [+ options L-ornithine + ..............] are likely what is needed.  A lot of curcumin and boswellia + OPC's should help too.

Here I very much disagree that niacin is an effective long term strategy.  It just widens the capillaries and makes cells stop clumping together, this increases blood flow but does little for capillary walls where the problem is.  [btw the doctor's recommendations tells me he doesn't know much and is guessing.]

hope this helps ........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 3:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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haaaa, sorry I only repeated what is usual here by and in my orthomolecular club
and must be honest with best results

                     
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resting
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Sam Dan
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Isa,

this problem is very, very old.  The solution is a permanent fix ... found by Dr. Mattias Rath about a decade ago when he was in charge of research at the Linus Pauling Institute.

the 'other' reason for high cholesterol is usually age & hormone deficiency related.  All hormones are made from cholesterol, so when deficient in a number of hormones a signal to produce more cholesterol*(more hormone) is sent to the liver.  However, between cholesterol and many hormones are a number of steps.  If these too are deficient, then the hormones remain low with that signal for 'more'.
So what evolves is high cholesterol + low hormones ... http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-.....OLS%20cholesterol%20

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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jeanb
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 4:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Which of your cholesterals is high?

Triglycerides, HDL or LDL?

Triglicerides indicate too much sugar in the diet....(I am thinking way too much Pineapple juice myself)  32 oz per day would probably drive my triglycerides off the charts.  Believe it or not, a couple of rice cakes per day can drive mine up by 100 points!!!!!

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italybound
Sunday, October 29, 2006, 2:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi folks - Elizabeth and accidental chef,High cholesterol readings do not indicate a heart problem, but an artery problem ...  the body uses cholesterol to seal lesions in arteries ... something like scabs on the skin.  So the high reading often indicate a lot of cuts or very thin artery walls.John


while John is certainly right about high cholesterol indicating an artery problem because cholestrerol is used to 'plug' lesions in the arteries, it can lead to heart attack and stroke. reason being, is the cholesterol that plugs these lesions is not smooth, like the artery was prior. it's more like glopped on plastered that is not smoothed out. as more and more plaque comes thru the artery, it can catch on this cholesterol and build. it can build until it causes a blockage or can break loose and go 'downstream' and attach to other cholesterol, eventuallly causing a blockage. there is a book that explains this all very well, in very simple terms and quite cute illustrations. the book is "You, The Owners Manual" by Roizen and Oz.  

I agree w/ the others, 32 oz of pineapple juice is a lot of sugar. this much p/j would cause lots of havoc for me. Since you are having health issues already, might be something to look in to.

how is your potassium? low potassium can cause cramping. could've been a combo of this and the med, if your potassium should happen to be low. tho the ideal would be to go to supps if possible.

John, as usual, full of good info. glad you're only resting (as opposed to not posting at all, I mean).




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Elizabeth1528  -  Sunday, October 29, 2006, 2:01am
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Debra+
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Has anyone seen Elizabeth around lately?

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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Sunday, October 29, 2006, 5:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I swear by fish oil...I take 6-9 a day and my Cholesterol is Below average and my good Cholesterol is very high ( wasn't always like that !!) ....both my parents are on Lipitor and I just got them on 6-9 fish oil caps a day too....their results will tell





Mom to 4 B's...living with extreme food allergies to wheat, all dairy, eggs and pineapple !! ( Me, not the kids..)
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Sunday, October 29, 2006, 7:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from debra
Has anyone seen Elizabeth around lately?Debra


I was wondering where she is as well. Has been a very long time since she's posted. Hope all is well.  



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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, October 29, 2006, 8:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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hi John
yup not that bad, dear I must agree, ok..ok...but there's something forgotten wich is remarked and pointed out in the book of the master of the master of the Orthomolekular Fritzles No does has a keyfunktion inhere,and endothelian dysfunktion is almost because of excessive production of Superoxyde-radikales ; cell- membrane-bound NADH production will be supresse by that. The suite out of that is the fact of upbuildings of lipideroxidation, and thrombocytesaggregation; Guanyllactcyclase is the mainfactor for possibilities of  heartattac and stroke!
Lesser levels of Vit. E and C also are a factor for such situations; we named it oxidative stress is one of the mainfactors for such progession of kardioovask. sickness, increased also by LDL.
page 218, Dr. Uwe Göber -Orthomolekular Medicine- ISBN-3-8047-1927-9 wissenschaft. Verlagsgesellschaft Stuttgart 2002

                                                 

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Elizabeth1528  -  Sunday, October 29, 2006, 6:25pm
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Sam Dan
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Hi girly,

strangely enough fish oil will actually increase cholesterol according to Dr. D ... but maybe it's the good kind ... that is not rough (ib).  It may be a matter that present BTD practices (ie. large quercetin intake & natural vit C) have healed those arteries so cholesterol is doing the good jobs it does in our bodies (Cocky).

Isa, there is little doubt that there may be a continued problem with the arteries ... heart attack and stroke are still there for me because my cholesterol is TOO LOW.  This results in arterial hemorrhage - downright deadly.  [Many folks past 75 (including my Dad & his sibs) have large, black, (non-painful), bruises on their arms.]  Focusing only on excess-cholesterol-as-culprit doesn't help health.

V. Frolov writes about excess breathed oxygen as causing these lesions - instead of the usual wear and tear of liquid-flow.  Seems right!

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
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yup...yup...yup ysa right, thatswhy I stopped *rebirthing*.....deads' are almost relayed on here..I guess, mostly elder people with no knowledge about their healthstates



                                                   
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Victoria
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Excessive deep breathing?  That's interesting.

Would a normal yoga-type practice of taking half a dozen or so full deep breaths every day do such a thing as damage like you are discussing, Isa and John?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, October 29, 2006, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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no dearle Victoria not those kinds of yogic exercises, but *il fut un temps* that I worked with Dr.
Stanislav Groff (the founder of rebirthing, a technic of breathing but really accelerés and transcendentale psychology) likewise a dog in summer and then the calcium get bound in your blood and you'll begin to cramp, mostly one session is about two hours or longer, after you are more than groggy but in our group (loooooong ago)
we have had several *accidents) because peoples werent aware about their healthstatus. We took this method to "open up" even the hardest nuts , and it würrged ahem worked, but it is not that
recommended for older people-this is only my opinion.
Any other questions I am waiting for


p.s.
must correct one thing; it didn't happend in *MY* group because I was altimes over..over..over...prudent- and if I've seen something *not that ok for my eyes and bellyfeeling, I stopped immediately to go on with the work......


and for  a second time I must apologize: it is named:holotropic breathwork, not rebirthing...sooo sorry

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Elizabeth1528  -  Sunday, October 29, 2006, 7:42pm
Elizabeth1528  -  Sunday, October 29, 2006, 6:36pm
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Victoria
Sunday, October 29, 2006, 7:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, thank you, Isa.  I understand about the rebirthing breathing . . very intense.  That isn't what I am doing.  Just everyday, I try and completely empty my lungs deeply, and inhale slowly and fully, several times, to clean out the stale gases and fill my lungs with clean air, full of oxygen for the bloodstream.

{{hugs}}



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Sam Dan
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Hi Victoria,

Frolov looked at the body-pattern for heart disease; arterial damage and cancer and thinks that only 10% of all the tissues get 80% of oxygen.  So he thinks that there is too much oxygen to these tissues + too little oxygen to the rest.  This is only one of the major problems generated BECAUSE of the way we breath

The other is the false assumption that breathing is solely for the purpose of oxygen acquisition and through it increased energy.  With endogenous breathing (rapid lower-lung/diaphragm inhales + excessively long exhales), the lungs manufacture large amounts of free electrons, carried to tissues by red-blood cells.  These electrons are more valuable to many of our body's reactions than is oxygen (including energy production).

He finds particular fault with deep breathing, yoga and sports because all they do is reproduce the exact same pattern of illness.  It's bit like having a lit candle and feeding the flame with more oxygen.  The flame becomes a torch, but the candle is short-lived.

His device is at http://www.intellectbreathing.com/patients.en.php The site is a sales-site and does not know too much technical stuff ... much is in Frolov's book.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  Cholesterol Through the Roof!

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