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Lalijen
Monday, August 14, 2006, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I just started the diet 1 week ago.  On three separate nights I have been unable to go to sleep until 1 am and was awake at 6am.    I used to be into cottage cheese and kefir - I added come calcium supplement to make up for the loss of that calcium intake, but it hasn't seemed to help.    Any ideas?  
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KimonoKat
Monday, August 14, 2006, 6:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
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Location: Sherman Oaks, California
Quoted from Lalijen
I just started the diet 1 week ago.  On three separate nights I have been unable to go to sleep until 1 am and was awake at 6am.    I used to be into cottage cheese and kefir - I added come calcium supplement to make up for the loss of that calcium intake, but it hasn't seemed to help.    Any ideas?  


Hello Lalijen!
It would help us to know what your blood type is before we start making some recommendations, and also what would help is to know what you've been eating and what supplements do you take and when.

Browse around the site and become familiar with all the features here.  If you look at the top right of the page, you will see a link called "member center."  If you click on that link, it will take you to a page where you can pick an appropriate avatar, to represent your Blood Type Shield.  This comes in handy when others are trying to help you answer questions.  Also on that link you can create a special message under your shield, and a personal signature that will appear in all your posts.

Again, welcome!



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Lola
Monday, August 14, 2006, 7:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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magnesium has been helpfull......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lalijen
Monday, August 14, 2006, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the reply ---

My blood type is O, secretor unknown, Rh factor unknown.

Early AM (empty stomach)   I take a  Probiotic, Armour thyroid, estrogen and progesterone topical creams

Breakfast   I take multi vit/min, quercetin, pregnenelone, tyrosine, ginkgo biloba ,NAC, chromiun picolinate, chlorella, fish oil, coq10/l carnitine

Midday meal   I take B complex, fish oil, borage oil, milk thistle, fiber , vita e with tocotrienols, 5HTP

Mid afternoon - glutamine

Evening meal -  Calcium (added when I stopped dairy), magnesium, fish oil, DIM, zinc, vita c, 5HTP, fiber

Bedtime-   estrogen and progesterone topical creams,  Melatonin  


I am working with the diet.  I have been off wheat products for several months,  tapering off cottage cheese and kefir as well as black tea (very difficult)   tapering off corn and cheese (less difficult)

The only thing I am aware of changing before sleep issues appeared that seems directly related is the lack of cottage cheese and kefir.
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Lola
Monday, August 14, 2006, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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Age: 57
try avoiding the  estrogen and progesterone topical creams at bedtime..........
see if that helps.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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KimonoKat
Monday, August 14, 2006, 9:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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What are you taking the 5HTP for?  I believe Dr. D no longer recommends this supplement for Type O's.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I would recommend taking calcium at night.  Calcium helps you get a better sleep (I always sleep throught the night when I remember to take it then) and it works better at night in the body.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Don
Monday, August 14, 2006, 9:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from KimonoKat
What are you taking the 5HTP for?  I believe Dr. D no longer recommends this supplement for Type O's.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I would recommend taking calcium at night.  Calcium helps you get a better sleep (I always sleep throught the night when I remember to take it then) and it works better at night in the body.

Correct about the 5-HTP.

Calcium is better absorbed with the consumption of protein, since protein will stimulate the release of IAP and IAP helps absorb calcium. Therefore I think it is good to take the calcium with dinner (as she is doing), since it is needed more for overnight process in the body, and then take the magnesium sometime after dinner and before going to bed.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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resting
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 2:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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Hi Lalijen,

I really do not know what is causing this problem for you ... rather than these supplements it may be what you are eating now ... you seem to have given-up some of the biggies + your supplements seem selected to give you maximum energy ... as an 0 with high energy you may need a lot of physical exertion ... as well, you may have a problem with chromium picolinate and would do better on ChromeMate (GTF-Glucose Tolerance Factor, chromium polynicotinate).

but this is a guess ...............

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 3:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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It also could be that your thyroid is doing better on the BTD and you need to cut down on your Armour Thyroid. Do you have any symptoms to indicate that?

Melotonin in not the preferred sleep aid for type O. You might want to try valerian
Quoted from Anti-Stress Support Protocols
http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/5.html
Valerian (Valeriana officinalis), 0.5% essential oils, 500 mg: 1-2 capsules, before bed


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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koahiatamadl
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 4:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Strenuous exercise almost guarantees a good night's sleep for me - unless I have something on my mind but even then it brings relief...
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Lalijen
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Kimonokat -   the 5HTP is about (short version) mild anxiety and depression.  It has definitely helped.

John- It might be related to days with less physical exertion.  I will watch that and check out Chromate.

MoDon -  It did cross my mind that the Armour may need to be reduced.  I just couldn't believe it could happen that quickly.  Not any obvious symptoms.  I will continue to monitor that possibilityas well as try Valerian.

Many thanks to you all who have responded.

Lalijen
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Debra+
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 7:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I have used 5 HTP and became ill using it.  Melatonin did okay for me in the beginning.  Valerian is what I take now when I have problems with sleep and it works great.  Have it in liquid and tea form.  They are both not as pleasant as others.  With the Valerian tea I usually use another type of sweeter tea when using, but nothing with caffeine.

And......when exercising to the max.........I stay alert during the day and sleep very well at night.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

O+nonT

CBP (Certified BodyTalk Practitioner)
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italybound
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 11:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Calcium helps you get a better sleep (I always sleep throught the night when I remember to take it then) and it works better at night in the body.


I mentioned this once and was quickly corrected by some folks here that it's not the calcium that helps you sleep, but the magnesium.  

Lalijen, welcome to the forum and BTD!!!!   That looks like a really BIG list of supps you are taking!   Anyone else agree? If so, does anyone hava a suggestion as to what she could eliminate and take a more basic regimen. Add back in anything she might want, one at a time for at least a week at a time to see if it is actually of any benefit?



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Don
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 1:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted from pkarmeier
I mentioned this once and was quickly corrected by some folks here that it's not the calcium that helps you sleep, but the magnesium.

Both calcium and magnesium, preferably taken separately, may help with insomnia.
Quoted from Alternative and Integral Therapies for Insomnia
http://www.holisticonline.com/remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_nutrition.htm
Calcium, especially when contained in food, has a sedative effect on the body. A calcium deficiency in the body causes restlessness and wakefulness.

Quoted from pkarmeier
That looks like a really BIG list of supps you are taking!   Anyone else agree? If so, does anyone hava a suggestion as to what she could eliminate and take a more basic regimen. Add back in anything she might want, one at a time for at least a week at a time to see if it is actually of any benefit?

I would want to make sure that all the hormones that are being taken are really needed:
Armour thyroid
estrogen and progesterone topical creams (2x per day)
pregnenelone
Melatonin

Also as a type O fish oil, particularly 3 times a day, may not be wise.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Whimsical
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 1:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from pkarmeier


I mentioned this once and was quickly corrected by some folks here that it's not the calcium that helps you sleep, but the magnesium.  


The reason for this is that magnesium is a muscle relaxer, which can help one relax before falling asleep AND improve the quality of sleep.  I definitely find this to be true for me.  

Calcium and magnesium (and many other minerals, for that matter) are important, but they have different roles.  Check out this website which I think John posted in another discussion of magnesium and calcium.  

Quoted Text

Calcium and magnesium are opposites in their effects on our body structure. As a general rule, the softer our body structure the more we need calcium, while the more rigid and inflexible it is, the less calcium and the more magnesium we need. Magnesium can reverse the age-related degenerative calcification of our body structure and with this help us to rejuvenate.




MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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italybound
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 2:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Whimsical
Calcium and magnesium (and many other minerals, for that matter) are important, but they have different roles.  Check out this website which I think John posted in another discussion of magnesium and calcium.  


Yes, John did post this in another thread and a great article!!!  Thanks for reposting. I actually had this article open on my laptop right now.

MoDon, you mention "both calcium and magnesium, preferably taken separately, may help with insomnia."    Wasn't it concluded in another thread that it is okay to take  C and M together as long as the C is plant derived. Most specifically as in seaweed?




Revision History (2 edits)
pkarmeier  -  Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 2:09pm
pkarmeier  -  Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 2:07pm
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Don
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 2:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier
Wasn't it concluded in another thread that it is okay to take  C and M together as long as the C is plant derived. Most specifically as in seaweed?

Yes, I think you are correct that that was what was concluded in a recent thread. However, that does not mean that it is the best way to supplement calcium and magnesium.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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italybound
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 2:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from ironwood55
Yes, I think you are correct that that was what was concluded in a recent thread. However, that does not mean that it is the best way to supplement calcium and magnesium.


Confused.........if it's BEST to take them separately, why does Dr D have them together in Phytocal?



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Drea
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier


Confused.........if it's BEST to take them separately, why does Dr D have them together in Phytocal?

Here is a lengthy but interesting (and seems to be well researched) article on calcium/magnesium.

" 14. Timing – When to give Calcium Supplements

When to give calcium supplements depends on the type of calcium and what other supplements you may be giving. Calcium carbonate needs to be taken with food because it needs more acidic conditions to be absorbed. Carbonate needs acidic conditions to appropriately dissociate the calcium to be absorbed by the body. Eating induces the stomach to produce digestive acids. Calcium citrate and most all of the other forms that are chelated, ionic, or water soluble do not have this requirement and can be given anytime in the day, with or without food.

There is a lot of conflicting opinion on giving calcium and magnesium together or separately. A lot of the supplements sold contain calcium and magnesium together. However, a lot of the references say to give them separately because minerals tend to compete with one another for absorption sites. A few sources say if you give calcium and magnesium together along with zinc, the minerals will “self sort” because they will be competing for the transport sites at the same time. This theory would suggest that to get as much of each nutrient absorbed, giving them separately allows the most absorption of each mineral.

Smaller doses given throughout the day are better than one large dose. Most of the references supported studies showing that more calcium was absorbed through smaller doses. Smaller doses also lessen the possibility of side effects. Giving calcium during the day enhances absorption into the bones. Giving calcium at bedtime may enhance relaxation and sleep."


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.

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pkarmeier  -  Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 10:24pm
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paulssandy
Thursday, August 24, 2006, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
On three separate nights I have been unable to go to sleep until 1 am and was awake at 6am.  


No one mentioned this in any of the replies, and everyone is much more experienced with the diet, but I wanted to throw it out there
We just started the BTD also and I found the very same thing happening to me.  I felt like I could get up and clean the whole house when I should have been sleeping.  I have come to the conclusion that when I eat red meat at dinner, it wakes me up and super charges my brain.  Good for the AM, but lousy for bedtime.  Have you been incorporating more red meats into your diet late in the day also?  

Sandy O
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koahiatamadl
Thursday, August 24, 2006, 5:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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There is a school of thought that suggests to change the order of your meals round somewhat -have your main meal in the morning and only a small meal at night......seems to work for some once you get used to the idea...
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Victoria
Thursday, August 24, 2006, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There has been some discussion on another thread about sleep being better if concentrated proteins are eaten earlier in the day . . breakfast and lunch . . and have some carbs with the evening meal.  I believe Don was talking about this.  It works for me.  My red meat meal is midday, and evening is when I have some fish, sweet potato, rice cake with nut butter.  I started sleeping well for the first time in years.
Also, I take a sublingual B12 in the evening, as recommended by Dr. D.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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italybound
Saturday, August 26, 2006, 3:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I have also started eating smaller meals of an evening. This is one thing the sorta BTD dr I went to ONCE advised. MY main reason tho is because we eat late and go to bed early. Not a good combo. I usually sleep like a baby tho. Sometimes I'm out within a minute or less literally. I know that because of where I've left off in my prayers.  

Is a sublingual B12 in the evening, also recommended by Dr. D for O's?  



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Victoria
Saturday, August 26, 2006, 4:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Sorry Italy,
I can't find where I read this recommendation from Dr. D.  I believe it was in one of the Ask Dr. D answers, but I can't get the search function to work for me.

In the Encyclopedia, B12 is recommended as a fatigue fighter for type O's, but no mention of taking it in the evening.  In fact, I am finding mention of taking it in the a.m. for both A's and B's in LR4YT.  

If I can locate the comment, I'll let you know.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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italybound
Saturday, August 26, 2006, 4:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Victoria
In the Encyclopedia, B12 is recommended as a fatigue fighter for type O's, but no mention of taking it in the evening.  In fact, I am finding mention of taking it in the a.m. for both A's and B's in LR4YT.  


I'd be afraid if I took it at night, it would keep me awake. thanks.



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