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Rich
Monday, August 7, 2006, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Jenny,

The Gallbladder and Liver Cleanse are pretty much the same thing as far as I can see,
although through the ages the actual method has varied. All of them seem to involve a small fast to make you a bit empty, followed by an olive oil and grapefruit drink (the oil softens the stones and the grapefruit induces the pumping action of the gallbladder. Then there is an epsom salts drink which opens a certain valve to let the stones pass out.  Usually you would do the various drinks in the evening before sleep and start passing the stones the next morning.  The whole thing is not exactly a barrell of laughs but it does produce results.  

Here is a link that will not only explain it all, but put you in touch with a wealth of information.
You will see variations on the cleanse and then you can choose whichever one suits you.

Good luck. Come back to me if you need any more.
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Rich
Monday, August 7, 2006, 11:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Try this       http://curezone.com/cleanse/
I think I forgot to include it in my last message .
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Victoria
Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 12:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jenny,
The link I provided on Aug 6th is for an herb called Breakstone (Chanca Piedra).  It is used in many liver/gallbladder flush protocols before doing the olive oil flush.  The herb softens and dissolves many, if not most of the stones so that the olive oil cleanse is most effective.  I have taken the herb on many occasions and really like the results.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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italybound
Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 2:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Avoiding fats really does help w/ the pain. I noticed before I had mine out that fat was a realllllllll culprit. Wish I'd known about BTD back then, as I would like to have kept my GB. I know they say we can live w/o it and we can, but it must've been put there for some "extra" purpose we have yet to discover.  



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ABJoe
Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 2:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jenny:
Have you any idea why it would flare up?


Some things I know really caused me problems - alcohol, hot spices (peppers), fats.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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ABJoe
Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 2:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from italybound:
it must've been put there for some "extra" purpose we have yet to discover.

The gall bladder concentrates bile and regulates it's flow into the digestive tract.  Bile aids digestion of fats.  Without the gall bladder, weaker bile flows into the digestive tract continuously, whether you need it or not.  While it won't kill you, it can cause more improperly digested foods to be absorbed into the blood stream.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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jsgrierson
Wednesday, August 9, 2006, 9:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Rich
Try this       http://curezone.com/cleanse/
I think I forgot to include it in my last message .


Rich, this is such a comprehensive link, and I feel sure that the answers are there. It is also so good to see BTD so prominately referred to. I am taking it one step at a time, and have been reminded of so many things that have been raised over the years in these forums such as drinking more pure water, and the use of sea salt.
Thank you so much,
Jenny
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jayney-O
Wednesday, August 9, 2006, 10:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'm still deciding whether to have my GB out or not. I suspect it is full of stones, which occasionally shoot out into the wrong duct and I get a pain on the other side......if it is full of stones it cannot do me much good in the way of modulating bile flow, so I have to make up my mind. Not sure I am willing to do the flush, but ....well,....not sure. Just my 2 cents.
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Don
Wednesday, August 9, 2006, 10:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just did my 30th flush Monday night.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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jayney-O
Wednesday, August 9, 2006, 11:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Wow!
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pipnjohn
Thursday, August 10, 2006, 2:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hello fellow BTDr's,
Last month (July/August) I was working on frozen pipes under our house and I rolled over (in a confined space) on a sausage sized stone.
The stone was very uncomfortable against my rib cage so I moved it out of the way.
Very straight forward event you may well think but the pain in my ribs and chest that followed was extraordinary, I barely got the job completed and almost cried out with pain every time I had to move.
I expected to see my rib cage showing severe bruising at some time but little sign eventuated.
The pain seemed out of proportion to the force applied by the rock.
The pain gradually subsided and has now almost gone but it has left me thinking that there may have been something deeper, that the stone only highlighted.
Reading on this thread makes me think it could have been my gallbladder because that is where the pain was, just behind the curvature of the rib cage near the edge.
The other thing that makes me suspicious is that although the initial pain has almost gone, it still pops up when I hit a hard bump in the road while riding my motorcycle!
That doesn't seem normal to me.
I have been on the BTD for about 5yrs now and am pretty compliant, carry no excess fat or weight and exercise fairly regularly.
Do you think I should go to an MD (the only kind available here) and get it checked out?  
  Cheers John.


 
 Would that God the gift to give us
 to see our selves as others see us.   Robbie Burns  

Revision History (1 edits)
pipnjohn  -  Thursday, August 10, 2006, 2:59am
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Lola
Thursday, August 10, 2006, 3:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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perhaps an ultrasound check, to make sure everything s ok.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Lloyd
Thursday, August 10, 2006, 5:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55
I just did my 30th flush Monday night.



Thanks for the reminder. I'm doing a flush even as I write.
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Rich
Thursday, August 10, 2006, 12:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Ee Dan,

I can relate to your symptoms completely. In a previous message I described my experience with these pains. They started via the Gallbladder, ie brought on by a heavy meal containing meat and a dessert with all the trimmings. In the end though it was a small stone caught in the biliary duct that had me rushed into hospital.

Sometimes I would lie on my back and find a little relief from the agony and sometimes I could massage it away. Whatever variation of symptoms you are experiencing it sounds as if you are on a typical gallbladder journey, and there is a risk that you may have to lose the organ if you leave it to chance.

The fact that you have been on the BTD for a few years suggests that your trouble is being caused by old stones that are moving out of their hiding places - perhaps your improved diet has stirred things up a bit. Get a scan by all means, it will at least confirm that you have stones, although it won't indicate exactly how many. That you are experiencing these pains means that your stones have reached a certain level of obstruction and I don't think they will go away.

If your body has a tendency to make such stones they will most likely be distributed all through the system including the liver, kidneys and biliary ducts. There is also a kind of silt that builds up and generally reduces the efficiency of the system. The flushes mentioned in these posts are helpful in cleaning all this out.

Some flushes are quite gentle, involving herbs and such over a period of time; and some are much more pro-active, involving a process designed to soften the stones and eject them.

You can visit curezone.com where there is a vast amount of information, advice and forums.
In fact reading your post has inspired me to start a gentle maintenance program of my own.

All the best of luck.    




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Rich
Thursday, August 10, 2006, 12:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Sorry to call you Ee Dan (I meant John of course).
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jsgrierson
Friday, August 11, 2006, 7:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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John's story about the stone and the motor bike reminds me of how I first became aware of the discomfort. I had leaned over a windowsill to place a dish of cat food outside slightly compressing my right side at the lowest rib level.
One day soon when I am not so busy I will do the various protocols, but for the moment I am without symptoms on fresh water, elimination of margarine, & lots of lemon juice and grapefruit.
Fascinating thread.
Jenny
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ABJoe
Saturday, August 12, 2006, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Red beets are the BEST food to eat to strengthen the gall bladder!

I eat about (1) 15oz. can, either whole or sliced, per week to keep Mr. GB happy.  I still have lots of junk being removed from many years of non-compliant eating, poor digestion and lack of elimination.

Gall stones are mostly built in the liver and flow out into /through the gall bladder by the bile; like stones being moved by the water flowing down a river.

I would try ANY other means of getting rid of the gall stone before surgery to remove the gall bladder!  I have heard too many "discomfort" stories from people who live without the GB.  It seems to be almost constant because none of their food is properly digested without bile concentration and metering.


RH-, ISTJ
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jsgrierson
Sunday, August 13, 2006, 8:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I boiled up a number of lovely red organic beets the other day with the plan of eating one per day with my main meal. After doing so, I had some new discomfort in the GB area, but I welcomed it with the rationale that it was doing some housekeeping in there!
After a few weeks doing this I should be really well I expect.
Thanks AB Joe.
(posted 12 hours later---ps after two feeds of beets, the dark ring under one eye has gone!)
Jenny

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pipnjohn  -  Sunday, August 13, 2006, 10:29pm
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Lloyd
Monday, August 21, 2006, 8:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria
Jenny,
The link I provided on Aug 6th is for an herb called Breakstone (Chanca Piedra).  It is used in many liver/gallbladder flush protocols before doing the olive oil flush.  The herb softens and dissolves many, if not most of the stones so that the olive oil cleanse is most effective.  I have taken the herb on many occasions and really like the results.


Contraindications:
Chanca piedra has demonstrated hypotensive effects in animals and humans. People with a heart condition and/or taking prescription heart medications should consult their doctor before taking this plant. It may be contraindicated for some individuals depending on the condition and/or medications may need monitoring and adjusting.
Chanca piedra has been considered in herbal medicine to be abortive (at high dosages) as well as an emmenagogue. While not studied specifically in humans or animals, animal studies do indicate it has uterine relaxant effects. It is therefore contraindicated during pregnancy.
Chanca piedra has been documented with female antifertility effects in one mouse study (the effect was reversed 45 days after cessation of dosing). While this effect has not been documented in humans, the use of the plant is probably contraindicated in women seeking pregnancy or taking fertility drugs. This effect has not been substantiated sufficiently to be used as a contraceptive, however, and should not be relied on for such.
Chanca piedra has demonstrated hypoglycemic effects in animals and humans. It is contraindicated for people with hypoglycemia. Diabetics should consult their doctor before taking this plant as it may be contraindicated for some individuals and/or insulin medications may need monitoring and adjusting.
Chanca piedra has been documented in human and animal studies with diuretic effects. Chronic and acute use of this plant may be contraindicated in various other medical conditions where diuretics are not advised. Chronic long-term use of any diuretic can cause electrolyte and mineral imbalances; however, human studies with chanca piedra (for up to three months of chronic use) has not reported any side effects. Consult your doctor if you choose to use this plant chronically for longer than three months concerning possible side effects of long term diuretic use.

Drug Interactions:  
May potentiate insulin and antidiabetic drugs.
This plant contains a naturally-occurring phytochemical called geraniin. This chemical has been documented with negative chronotropic, negative inotropic, hypotensive and angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor effects in animal studies with frogs, mice and rats. As such, this plant may potentiate antihypertensive drugs, Beta-blocker drugs and other heart medications (including chronotropic and inotropic drugs).
May potentiate prescription diuretic drugs.







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pipnjohn  -  Monday, August 21, 2006, 8:58am
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Lisalea
Wednesday, August 23, 2006, 2:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Rich
I have been through the whole gallbladder experience and would like to share it.

The 'pains' happened off and on for about a year before I took it seriously had a scan at hospital. This revealed 'a few stones' present in the gallbladder. From then on I was on full alert, avoiding anything that would bring on any discomfort, and I started doing cleanses in the time honoured olive oil and grapefruit tradition.

Sadly it was all too late by then. A small stone got lodged in the biliary duct and I was rushed to hospital with jaundice, and a camera inspection revealed that my gallbladder was furred over and not actually working. Regardless of how many stones might have been in the gallbladder, it has a valve to let bile in and out of - in my case this valve was not working. Needless to say the only practical solution was to have the organ out.

This was the last thing I wanted but I was in no position to bargain. The cleanses I had been doing relied on there being a possibility for the stones to be let out of the gallbladder but it was clear that they had no way of doing that.

Incidentally, this was all before I discovered eating for my blood type, which has improved my health a lot. I now get along fine without my gallbladder but I often wonder at what cost.

My real message to anyone having gallbladder pains is this.
If you are are experiencing any kind of discomfprt, from mild to severe, it means you have STONES. They are the result of years of over-acidity and they won't just be in your gallbladder. They form in all the passageways and could easily cause a blockage as they did in my case.  

Don't just treat the sympoms, try and get rid of those stones!
A good diet will help you to avoid forming any more stones but those you already have need to be dissloved or got rid of.

I had it straight from my surgeon that gallbaldder operations pretty much keep the hospitals in business all year round.  You are not likely to get any remedies from that direction - this is something you will have to take responsibility for yourself.

There have always been natuaral remedies - herbs and treatments for breaking down and dissolving stones, and, had my efforts not been so drastiacally cut short, I would be using them myself.

Good luck, and if there is any help I can give regarding this please post.

Rich.




I'm so sorry to hear what happened to u ...

However u're doing fine now  and that's what's important !!!

I was wondering ...  
What kind of discomfort r u referring to exactly ??? ... In other words ... what r the signs ???
Thanks so much


The older I get, the more wide-eyed I become.  
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Rich
Wednesday, August 23, 2006, 11:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Lisalea,

The early sign is a slight dull ache just south of the ribcage on your right side, about 3 inches from certre.  It comes after eating something rich (heavy meat in sauce, followed by pudding etc), usually in the hour after that meal.

As the condition worsens, so does the ache. It comes on faster. and seems to need less and less to trigger it. At first it would need a roast lamb dinner with pudding, but later a couple of chocolate chip cookies would do it. At it's height it is the kind of dull pain that would not let you sleep and at it's most acute you would be rolling in agony.

Not nice.  Hope this helps.

Best wishes,  Rich.
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Lisalea
Wednesday, August 23, 2006, 3:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Rich
Hi Lisalea,

The early sign is a slight dull ache just south of the ribcage on your right side, about 3 inches from certre.  It comes after eating something rich (heavy meat in sauce, followed by pudding etc), usually in the hour after that meal.

As the condition worsens, so does the ache. It comes on faster. and seems to need less and less to trigger it. At first it would need a roast lamb dinner with pudding, but later a couple of chocolate chip cookies would do it. At it's height it is the kind of dull pain that would not let you sleep and at it's most acute you would be rolling in agony.

Not nice.  Hope this helps.

Best wishes,  Rich.



Terrible

Actually my problem is this: I started burping/belching quite a bit ... especially if I drink water an
hour or so after a meal and sometimes in the mornings if I drink Apple Cider Vinegar/Molasses or
simply
a cleansing tea such as Ginkgo/Ginger ... or even Lemon water ... hmmmm

I used to hear really strange growling-gurgling-bubbling swishing noises for a long while last winter these have subsided somewhat (although I still hear them like right now *sigh* since I just had lunch ) ... however; I just learned that my Iron levels r extremely low therfore this may have been the cause of my digestion distress ... I'm NOT sure what to really think anymore ... I just hope that the burping dilema doesn't mean gallbladder/ gallstones ...  this is what cocerns/worries me  

Thanks


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Rich
Wednesday, August 23, 2006, 6:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Sounds like a different issue to me.  Perhaps you should start a thread on this -  see what people come up with. Good luck.
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Lisalea
Wednesday, August 23, 2006, 7:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Rich
Sounds like a different issue to me.  Perhaps you should start a thread on this -  see what people come up with. Good luck.




I appreciate it, thank-u


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ABJoe
Thursday, August 24, 2006, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lisalea,
The gurgling (air in the digestive tract) is usually due to improper digestion or digesting non-compliant food remains.  Whether this is due to allergies, a lack of digestive enzymes, eating avoids, or some other cause will be what you need to determine.  When I eat avoids (I know, Baaaddd), then get back to all compliance, I get rewarded with air until I get all the junk through the system.  I also get gurgling when I can tell that the body is removing junk from some of the lyphomas (garbage deposits throughout the body from years of bad eating, allergies, and inefficient elimination).


RH-, ISTJ
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