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Paulppaul
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I've been on the "Candida Diet" for the last 2 weeks and have tryed the diet several times for months at a time but candida still came back, worse than ever.  I've just really been following the diet a little blindly.  I'm wondering, well what kills the candida yeast besides having die off?  I searched for an answer but I usually came back to, let them die off by depriving your body of nutrients that the "Yeast" uses for energy.  To me it's almost like saying,  bow-down and let this thing torcher you some more until it dies, if it dies.  I think I should fight this invader and I should be strong to kill it.  That is why I am still going to eat the great fruits, meats, vegetables and grains that I should be eating for my health but bombard my body with good bateria and good yeast to overwhelm this menace.  As you can tell I'm tired of struggling?  If this doesn't work "Oh Well" I can't be any worse off then I've been most of my life.  You can find more about what I'm talking about doing here.

http://www.regaininghealthnatu.....d_Common_Sense.shtml    
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KimonoKat
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Are you incorporating any of the Yeast/Fungal support protocols?

Have you identified your hidden food allergies?

Some have said this is critical to overcomng yeast overgrowth.

You should also note that it is not an easy problem to overcome.  Many have spent long months battling candida.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:56am
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italybound
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 1:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Have you tried ThreeLac? Many say it works great! Just google it. There are several different places that sell it. One is way more expensive, supposedly for the help you get if you need it. I'll pass on that when I order.  



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geminisue
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 2:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Is candida more than just the flaking and itching of the skin?  For some reason I think it is,  I know it's uncomfortable and I know there's good days and bad days but does it also affect our health in other ways besides above mentioned ways.  Thanks for response.
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SusieD
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 3:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Once I knew I was a nonnie (took the NAP lab test) and followed the nonnie food list I was hopeful that all my nagging health problems would go away. Dream on! When I first started the nonnie diet and cleared out all wheat and sugar my skin really looked better, for a while. I kept coming across discussions of candida on this forum and did a lot of reading and considered that this might be my biggest problem. But when I tried to eliminate the candida, I ran into the big "die-off" issue. Thought I had experienced pain and suffering before, this was debilitating. Went back and read some more. Tried all the stuff to kill the candida and the stuff to get it out before it could be so toxic and added the probiotic for A. The fatigue and feeling bad was worse than living with the candida. But then I knew I needed to work through the pain and get rid of the candida to see if it was really causing most of my health problems (fatigue, aching joints, PMS, rosecea) Read about Candex, got it at my HFS, been taking it for 8 days and it has worked for me. Still had some discomfort using it, but very minor compared to anything else I used. I felt the worst on day 5 and remember reading somewhere ( I read a lot) that day 5 is a critical time of an illness, Going to continue the Candex and taper off as suggested, then go for the one capsule a day maintenence. Going to add the Polyflora "A" Probiotic again.


Non-secretors have to work twice as hard to get half as far...SusieD
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KimonoKat
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 3:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Imho, if you have candida, consistently taking antifungals for your type and a probiotic is key.  Most don't take enough probiotic.

In Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine by Murrya & Pizzorno, ND's, individuals need anywhere from 1 to 10 billion viable Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bactobacillus bifidum cells per day to fight candida.  (page 312)

Imagine that. As much as 10 billion a day.





Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 3:50pm
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resting
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 4:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi geminisue,

there's a huge problem with candida overgrowth and most of it is unseen and often it takes years to do such damage.  The intestines are lined with very tiny finger-like projections called villi that do almost all the digestion of food.  Together they would likely look somewhat like a forest ... and an attack on this forest in what candida does .... it is a clear-cutting operation.  Like clear-cutting will do to the environment by altering the land, so to candida can alter our health ... in small ways at first, but progressively to life threatening ways.

The threat of candida may indeed be of little consequence ... eating well by chewing food (especially grains) until it is a liquid in your mouth and eating slowly ... are likely the best-strategy for beating candida ... the starving of candida microbes is done by digesting carbs very early (saliva- thorough chewing of food).  Alas, these days such is not-too-common....   we're so much in a hurry ... where to > our grave?

The next level of the problem is trying to supply our forest  within with the resources that will keep it   resilient ... the flora is likely #1 ... with proper bacterial strains; pro- and pre - biotics; ghee and olive oil; .... some herbs like clove, or wild oregano, or olive leaf, those in ThreeLac, etc, etc

The final stage of this problem involves a rather intense and prolonged attempt to re-forest the land ... after some of the 'effects' of deforestation are made clear ... with a very wide array of food sensitivities and allergies; often leaky gut; often an auto-immune disease;  UCI; Crohn's Disease; on and on.  JK(Judi) is now working on healing such a huge disruption!
She realized that her villa were damaged, so she supplies nutrients that will heal and absorb directly without involving much 'digesting' that is normal.  Candida hurts the ability to digest all food ... including the proteins, because the villa are destroyed too.  It is a fight for survival .... I sure hope she wins!

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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oooo... wow KK you are also in possession of this famous encyclop. of Murray & Pizzorno, they are also great...so we might compare what might be different and understand why it works ....
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JK
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Kimono Kat and John are definitely on the right track here! And thanks John, I hope you win too  

I use probiotics from Klaire labs http://www.klaire.com/probiotics_cat.htm I started with the Detox formula and now take both the Complete and Detox. Yes, billions, anything less is a waste of money. Have been doing so for about six months. At the same time I have been using nystatin and fluconazole, both Rxs, both potent anti-fungals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nystatin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluconazole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifungal_drug

I just stopped taking these antifungals last week and the Candida has not rebounded as yet. Hopefully I am through with them since they are expensive. I had tried many herbs and other natural remedies for a few months before going to the heavy guns. BTW, nystatin is natural and is contained within the digestive system when taken orally so is very safe. Fluconazole on the other hand is less so.

At this point, I am hoping my body will be able to defend itself from a Candida overgrowth when it rears its ugly head again (since you can't get rid of it completely) and that depends on my immune function which depends on my adrenal glands. I will not be resuming a normal diet anytime soon due to my leaky gut, but even if that weren't an issue, I wouldn't start feeding the Candida with sugar and grains anyway. BTW, you can't starve out Candida -- it will always survive on your blood sugar even if you don't eat any carbs and go into ketosis. The key is to knock their numbers down so that your system can handle them again, ie keep their numbers down.

Seems to me the root of all of my health problems has been about a decade or so of adrenal insufficiency. While I have been supporting these little endocrine glands nutritionally and with rest, it has not been enough. I have learned quite a bit from this site http://www.chronicfatigue.org/index.html  (go to the archives) and here http://www.diagnostechs.com/main.htm I also purchased Dr. Poesnecker's book.

Hypoadrenia is not a simple matter. There are stages of degeneration and remedies for one stage can hinder regeneration of the adrenals if the person is in another stage. The Adrenal Stress Index test offered by the second link is used to pinpoint the stage one is in so that appropriate remedies are implemented. It was time to stop the fluconazole but the exact timing of it is due to needing to take this spit test -- fluconazole interferes with the testing.

BTW, John is right about the villi. The final stages of both protein and sugar digestion require healthy villi so if one's villi are reduced or gone, both protein and sugar/starch is not digested completely and so 1) doesn't feed your body and 2) does feed the bad guys -- the pathogeic bacteria and fungi in your digestive tract.

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KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 5:35pm
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Victoria
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Your posts are very helpful, JK!  Thank you.

I am using a combination of many of the above suggestions, and seem to have arrived at a much better balance than I've ever been in my life.  Here's what I'm doing at this time:

1.  Complete compliance on the BTD.  This means NO avoids.  Beneficials with every meal, and a wide variety of neutrals to provide a variety of nutrition.  And I make sure I get enough quality protein.

2.  Ghee and olive oil daily.

3.  NAP brand of probiotic.  This has worked better than any other brand for me.

4.  No sugar or other sweeteners.

5.  Anti-Candida enzymes taken 3 x daily between meals.  I use the Enzymedica brand of anti-candida protocol.

6.  I chew every bite of food until it is liquid before swallowing.

7.  Grains are at a minimum.  I eat one toasted rice cake per day.  That's the only grain I eat now, and this has helped very much.

8.  I take Intrinsia (butyrate acid/caprilic acid) between meals to heal the damage.

9.  ARA6 (Larch extract) as a healthy fiber, intestinal immune booster and pre-biotic.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Paulppaul
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 7:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I've been on the diet for more than a year and found that I have many food allergies.  
Peanuts
Soy
Grains
Dairy

I believe candida contributes to all of these or causes them.  


Right now I'm trying brewers yeast as stated by Dr. D and molybdenum someone say it was good for the die off sickeness. Also Probiotics.  I took Solarays yeast cleanse(Caprilic acid, grape fruit seed extract) for 2 months, although it made me feel better for a little while the yeast is still there.  

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive4/config.pl?read=722


I think the reason I have candida in the first place is because wheat and other grains brought my immune system down to allow the candida to thrive.  Before this diet I was always depressed and sick.  I got my wisdom teeth out and my dentist prescribed some antibiotics and I took them.  Then the candida started to get bad without me really knowing and then I started to try apple cider vinegar and that set it off more and made me realize what was going on.

I am eating everything except those grains, which is almost all except for brown rice.  I believe tons of probiotics is key, along with brewer's yeast and the BTD.  I've been eating low fat cultured yogurt and that seems to help greatly.  I'm feeling better than ever so far, hope it lasts.

I believe it's going to take about 2 years to rid of it this way but it's better than depriving my body of the nutrients it needs.

Revision History (2 edits)
KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 7:29pm
KimonoKat  -  Sunday, July 16, 2006, 7:23pm
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Paulppaul
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from geminisue
Is candida more than just the flaking and itching of the skin?  For some reason I think it is,  I know it's uncomfortable and I know there's good days and bad days but does it also affect our health in other ways besides above mentioned ways.  Thanks for response.


In my own experience it causes my brain to be foggy due to either it's waste or it dying off.  I think it causes chronic fatigue.  I can't say that candida is the root of all my ackes and pains because I don't think the proof is out there but it does play a major role.  
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Paulppaul
Sunday, July 16, 2006, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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There seems to be a lot of talk of adrenal problems, this is what Dr. D says and makes sense to me.

http://www.dadamo.com/bloggers/ask/archives/00000344.htm
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JK
Monday, July 17, 2006, 3:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Victoria  

Dr D's suggestions would be perhaps enough for someone in the initial stage of adrenal insufficiency, ie if the person identified their problem early enough (or not and just followed the diet and improved -- no need to know in that case). The diet was not enough for me. Too far along.

I realize the archives above are alot to read but anyone who has problems with their adrenal glands, chronic fatigue and/or fibromyalgia (chronic pain) would serve themselves greatly by putting the time into it. Here's a shorter list from the archives addressing the stages of adrenal disfunction and the trickle of recent peer reviewed medical research supporting Dr. Poesnecker's (and others -- this syndrome has been around for a long time but numbers of affected people are on the rise) lifetime work with these patients.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/Selye%20large.html
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI.html
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/Life%20Mastery.html

Dr D'Adamo's work is the FOUNDATION of my therapy but for me, much more is required.

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KimonoKat  -  Monday, July 17, 2006, 3:21pm
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Lola
Monday, July 17, 2006, 4:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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the fatigue book will definately help fine tuning your diet choices.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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KimonoKat  -  Monday, July 17, 2006, 4:33pm
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mikendomsmum
Monday, July 17, 2006, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have a question about candida.  If I have a vaginal yeast infection does that automatically mean I have a problem with candida throughout my entire body?  I get a VYI about every few months for just a day or two and it resolves on it's own.  


Karen
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italybound
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Quoted from mikendomsmum
I have a question about candida.  If I have a vaginal yeast infection does that automatically mean I have a problem with candida throughout my entire body?  I get a VYI about every few months for just a day or two and it resolves on it's own.  


Karen, these times that you are getting the VYI that resolve themselves in a day or 2, have you had sugar a day or 2 prior?  Having a VYI wouldn't automatically mean you have it everywhere. Everyone has candida in their systems, intestines to be exact. We have good, bad and candida albicans. Antibiotics, especially the broad spectrum variety, kill the good and bad bacteria, leaving only the candida. Thus the YI. If you add sugar to the mix, poof, even worse.     Sugar feeds candida.




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KimonoKat  -  Monday, July 17, 2006, 5:34pm
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mikendomsmum
Monday, July 17, 2006, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier


Karen, these times that you are getting the VYI that resolve themselves in a day or 2, have you had sugar a day or 2 prior?  Having a VYI wouldn't automatically mean you have it everywhere. Everyone has candida in their systems, intestines to be exact. We have good, bad and candida albicans. Antibiotics, especially the broad spectrum variety, kill the good and bad bacteria, leaving only the candida. Thus the YI. If you add sugar to the mix, poof, even worse.     Sugar feeds candida.


I eat sugar.  Not a lot but I do occasionally make quick breads or waffles w/ maple syrup, eat candied ginger and lots of fresh and dried fruits.  I've been thinking about eliminating my fruits, grains and sugars and see if I feel different.  I don't feel bad now, in fact I feel great but for the YI every now and again.  It doesn't alter my quality of life.  


Karen
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resting
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Hi mikendomsmum;

the kind of fungal infection, nor its extent does not translate into just how much damage it will cause in the long term.  [To me, it means that your body-stage is 'set' to entertain these bugs.]

someone was kind enough to send be this site: http://www.forces-of-nature.org

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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mikendomsmum
Monday, July 17, 2006, 6:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi mikendomsmum;

the kind of fungal infection, nor its extent does not translate into just how much damage it will cause in the long term.  [To me, it means that your body-stage is 'set' to entertain these bugs.]

someone was kind enough to send be this site: http://www.forces-of-nature.org

John


Thanks, John.  I'm looking over that product right now.  
There have been some times during the past 15 years that I've had a VYI once a month or more often even.  It seemed like I would never get rid of it.  I took tons of creams, pills, and even tried some horrendous home remedies.  To have a "touch" of one every couple or few months is a great improvement but it would be great to be completely rid of it.  


Karen
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Lola
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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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mikendomsmum
Monday, July 17, 2006, 7:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, that was one of the "horrendous" home remedies. It didn't work.  I tried it years ago when the infections were pretty much constant.  
Right now I have them very mildly and they go away untreated pretty quickly, within a day or two.  
I'm really thinking that I could have a case of candida but it's getting much better.
Ya think?


Karen

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KimonoKat  -  Monday, July 17, 2006, 7:20pm
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Don
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Another element to look at is make sure that you don't have excess iron, since candida will thrive in an iron rich environment. An iron profile blood test will verify your iron status.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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JK
Tuesday, July 18, 2006, 5:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Yeah, Lola, thanks. I have the fatigue book, the allergies book, and the arthritis book. There are some health problems which require going beyond the BTD.

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KimonoKat  -  Tuesday, July 18, 2006, 5:54pm
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jayney-O
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the thing I am afraid of is that  (now that I have candida...per the test) I will have to give up my one glass of red wine. Wah!
This will be so hard to do.....no one has mentioned it, but the yeast love alcohol, right?

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KimonoKat  -  Thursday, July 20, 2006, 7:25pm
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