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thyroid  This thread currently has 16,884 views. Print Print Thread
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Janet
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 1:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+Somewhere Between BTD+Warrior
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,329
Gender: Female
Location: England
Age: 63
Hi greenfields, I too have to take thyroid meds (synthetic), since '94. Anyway, I was wondering whether anybody had continued on this type of med and begun taking eg Kelp and then gradually switched over??


Janet
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Jane
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 3:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Location: Metrowest Boston, MA
Age: 70
Cytomel is artificial T3.  Armour is from pigs but the advantage is that it also has T1 and T2 in it as well.  Take a look at Mary Shomon's site on About.com for all kinds of information about thyroid symptoms, types of treatment, etc.  I currently take a compounded T3 medication as well as levothroid which is T4.  My endo also has me trying to take it with food and at night (the levothroid) which is exactly the opposite of anything that I've ever heard before but he thinks it might help me sleep better.  I'm undecided about that right now but I have a lot of extra stress so maybe it's a combo of things.  Years ago when I was first diagnosed with thyroid problems (freshman or sophomore year in college) I started taking cytomel.  I was switched to synthroid when I was pregnant with my first child.  I stayed on the synthroid until a year or so ago when I switched to the levothroid and the T3 was added it.
You should at least have your thyroid checked, PT, and if your TSH is high (now about 3.0, not 5.0 as it used to be) a little thyroid might help you out.
Jane
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Peppermint Twist
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from laurjen
...PT - I'd say get checked - you don't have to take the drugs, but at least you will have more information. For me, it was very validating that I wasn't doing something wrong or missing something.

Good point.  I just told someone in another thread that "knowledge is power" in regard to knowing one's secretor status.  Last night, I just had a very frank talk with my mom about her physical challenges and her putting off getting certain training that is out there to do with coping with blindness, because of reasons real and imagined that she has, and I told her basically the same thing (among other things).  So I do need to take my own advice (hey, there's a first time for everything, right?).  I do plan to ask my nunuDoc (a.k.a., my doctor) for a thyroid test when I see her in mid-December.  If she asks why, I'll say "Because for me to lose weight I either have to starve myself, which I'm unwilling to voluntarily do ever again, or I have to exercise as if I'm training for the Olympics, to the exclusion of everything else in my life."  And also there is the low-temp. thing.  I think it is ODD that my temperature always seems to be low when I get it taken at doctors' offices or to give blood.  It didn't used to be low, as I recall.

What gets me (back to the weight thing, for a minute) are the people who think weight is just a matter of calories in/calories out.  That is SO last millennium, way-of-thinking-wise.  It is like thinking that your blood cholesterol has everything to do with how much cholesterol you eat.  NOT.

Gotta get some hot water for tea now.  Later, duuuudes.  btw, Jane:  great post.  Just before I go to the doc. in December, I'll ask you what kind of test I'm to tell her to give me, as if you tell me now, I'm sure to forget by then.  While at home waiting for the city inspector who never arrived yesterday, I watched some daytime television and it completely fried my few remaining brain cells.  Therefore, the memory, she is gonzo.  Maybe you could send me an e-mail with what the good test(s) is/are for thyroid function, and I shall save it until approximately one day before I see the doctor, at which point I shall commit it to memory!



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 7:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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I agree that Mary Shoman's site on About.com is full of information about thyroid.  Between Jean's blog and what I read on various sites on the internet I was encouraged to ask my endocrinologist to change my Synthroid to Westhroid.  Jane is right that Armour, Westhroid, and Naturethroid all have T1, T2, T3 and T4.  Certainly, many people do well with Cytomel plus Synthroid.  I just decided to go with Westhroid for the time being to see how it works out.  

My TSH always came back normal but after gaining 40 lbs. in one year I knew something was wrong.  After my thyroid was removed (thyroid papillary cancer) I was put on Synthroid.  I worked hard to lose those 40 lbs. but was getting nowhere.  I read Jean's blog and did a little research on Westhroid finding that many persons who could lose no weight on Synthroid were successful losing weight once they changed to Armour or Westhroid.

That did it for me!!!!!!!!   I had a nice long talk with my endo and she finally agreed that yes, with the way I was eating I should have been losing weight and she prescribed Westhroid.  

I have only 20 more pounds to lose, now, and am ecstatic to finally show some weight loss for all my trouble.

Tests are always work in progress.  Sometimes you have to go with your instincts.
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mikendomsmum
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 7:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
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Quoted from New_Hampshire_Girl
I read Jean's blog and did a little research on Westhroid finding that many persons who could lose no weight on Synthroid were successful losing weight once they changed to Armour or Westhroid.

That did it for me!!!!!!!!   I had a nice long talk with my endo and she finally agreed that yes, with the way I was eating I should have been losing weight and she prescribed Westhroid.  

I have only 20 more pounds to lose, now, and am ecstatic to finally show some weight loss for all my trouble.

Tests are always work in progress.  Sometimes you have to go with your instincts.


That's fantastic NHG!  My doc reduced my cytomel last month and I'm feeling awful lately.  Tired, moody, bad sleep, back pain, headaches, lost sex drive.  I just called her and I'm waiting for a return call.  I need to either go back to the full dose of cytomel or switch to one of those you mentioned.  I wrote them down and I'll see what she says about it.  Thanks for the info!  I haven't been to the Mary Shomon site in years.


Karen
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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Karen, let me know how you make out on this problem.  The whole thing is a juggling game, isn't it!  You, yourself, know how you feel.  No one else does unless you keep them informed and keep your resolve about getting help.  This is the way I look at it:  my endocrinologist is getting her first experience in practice after everything a doctor does to get through with the education process.  I am always polite but in the back of my mind I figure she's learning from me, as well as I'm taking advantage of her knowledge.   I'm a lot older than she and I tell her the truth about how I feel.  She's beginning to understand my process of thought and that I am not a threat to her just because I ask questions.  We get along very well and I'm happy with her listening skills and her own questions.  It's a nice give and take.
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mikendomsmum
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
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It is difficult to find a doc who understands unless they've actually been through the thyroid thing.  I found a good one too but they're only good if they're giving you what you want so we'll see what she says today.


Karen
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mikendomsmum
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 10:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
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Well, doc called and agreed with me that I need the cytomel to feel "normal" so I'm back on full dosage.  I had a blood test on Saturday and the results should be here in a day or two.  If my TSH is too low again she'll reduce the levoxyl and leave the cytomel alone.  Phew. What a relief that she agreed with what I wanted and I don't have to fight for my cytomel.  


Karen
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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Gosh, Karen, I'm so excited for you!    I find the T3 works wonders for a person!
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Don
Thursday, July 13, 2006, 9:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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PT, There are other things to consider too.
Toxicity – Implications in Weight Management
  • Laboratory animals undergoing toxicity testing
    showed decreased body temperatures.

  • Researchers believe that the movement towards
    hypothermia may be a protective device used by
    the body to slow down the effects of the toxins.

  • A theoretical model I have proposed over the past
    few years is that the greater number of people
    being seen today with low basal temperature is
    our response to an increase in toxic load.

  • Lower Metabolism and low temperature = Slower
    Toxic Effects = Poor Energy Creation = More
    Weight Gain = Slower Weight Loss

  • In the July 2004 International Journal of Obesity,
    Dr. Angelo Tremblay of Laval University in
    Quebec, Canada said the following:
    “Pollution seems to be a new factor affecting the
    control of thermogensis in some obese
    individuals experiencing body-weight loss.”

  • What this study found was metabolic rates
    slowed down in proportion to concentrations of
    organochlorines more so than in the
    concentrations of leptin. Two mechanisms were
    proposed, first the effect on the thyroid by these
    toxins and second as a mitochondrial toxin. My
    proposition, which comes from the data
    gathered from thousands of tests is that the
    affect of environmental toxins, from
    organochloric, phosphic, petrochemical,
    bacterial, or heavy metals is on the Citric Acid
    Cycle.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Connect
Thursday, July 13, 2006, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
I'm wondering:  if your thyroid blood tests come back "normal", is it still possible that you might be hypothyroid?  


INFJ
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Drea
Thursday, July 13, 2006, 10:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from connect14
I'm wondering:  if your thyroid blood tests come back "normal", is it still possible that you might be hypothyroid?  


Melissa J blogged about something similar today...worth a read at least.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Connect
Thursday, July 13, 2006, 11:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Thanks Drea.  I'm a bit confused though, is a HIGHER TSH number worse?  Melissa said she almost fell over when it was over a 6 and said she felt like pond scum when it was over 3.  So is a lower number better?


INFJ
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italybound
Friday, July 14, 2006, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Edna
for me to lose weight I either have to starve myself, which I'm unwilling to voluntarily do ever again, or I have to exercise as if I'm training for the Olympics, to the exclusion of everything else in my life."  And also there is the low-temp. thing.  I think it is ODD that my temperature always seems to be low when I get it taken at doctors' offices or to give blood.  


I have been hypothyroid for prob 30 years. My temp has always been around 97.3. Also having a lower temp indicates that you may be an alien.    .  Read that somewhere years ago, prob in some rag mag.    

In talking to my NP yest, we were discussing my having gained some weight and really no explained reason. What it boiled down to was my adrenals. He told me to get off the fruit, sugars and greatly reduce my oil and butter intake. Because of my weak adrenals, my body isn't metabolizing these foods correctly. I'm taking some lipase and lecithin to try and get some weight off. And my adrenal supps. Not sure how that works, but hey worth a shot. PT I know you don't think fruit bothers you and while it may not make you feel bad, maybe your body isn't metabolizing it correctly right now. I guess this would go for rice and other grains as well, as they are high glycemic foods. Something to consider.  Love the NP!!!!



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girly
Friday, July 14, 2006, 1:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh +...other stuff to come
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Can't you just get plain old Bovine thyroid?? That's what I've taken for 5 years now and my thyroid levels are continuously at a level 1 steady.





Mom to 4 B's...living with extreme food allergies to wheat, all dairy, eggs and pineapple !! ( Me, not the kids..)
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Don
Friday, July 14, 2006, 1:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from New_Hampshire_Girl
Between Jean's blog and what I read on various sites on the internet I was encouraged to ask my endocrinologist to change my Synthroid to Westhroid.  Jane is right that Armour, Westhroid, and Naturethroid all have T1, T2, T3 and T4.  Certainly, many people do well with Cytomel plus Synthroid.  I just decided to go with Westhroid for the time being to see how it works out.

Did you realize that the binding agent in Westhroid is cornstarch? Nature-throid, which is made by the same company Western Research Laboratories, is the same thing as Westhroid but does not use corn starch as the binding agent.
Quoted from Western Research Laboratories
http://wrlonline.com/
Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™ are natural thyroid hormone products derived from freshly excised and promptly frozen porcine glands. They are hormonally identical. Westhroid™ was originally bound with cornstarch, which was found to cause sensitivities in those who have food allergies. Realizing this, we made Nature-Throid™ which is bound with microcrystalline cellulose, a hypoallergenic binder. Nature-Throid™ is more suitable for patients who suffer with reactions to regular binding agents and fillers.




FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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italybound
Friday, July 14, 2006, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from ironwood55
Did you realize that the binding agent in Westhroid is cornstarch?


As is the case in sooooooooo many drugs and just aggravating as all get out!!!!!
Guess I need to look at what is in Levoxyl.  Could be setting myself up for failure each and every morning.  



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Melissa_J
Friday, July 14, 2006, 2:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from connect14
Thanks Drea.  I'm a bit confused though, is a HIGHER TSH number worse?  Melissa said she almost fell over when it was over a 6 and said she felt like pond scum when it was over 3.  So is a lower number better?


Higher TSH means lower thyroid, usually, so it's best to be in the 1-3 range in my experience.  I'm surprised I felt as good as I did at a 6.

It's possible to have any lab results and any symptoms  I've felt both high and low at the same time, and almost had my pituitary scanned b/c for a while the TSH didn't respond right to the T4.  I'm hoping levothroid does the trick now, but if not I'll campaign for the synthetic T3.  Funny how docs have one way of doing things, and try to apply that to every patient.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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italybound
Friday, July 14, 2006, 2:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Melissa_J
It's possible to have any lab results and any symptoms  I've felt both high and low at the same time, and almost had my pituitary scanned b/c for a while the TSH didn't respond right to the T4.  I'm hoping levothroid does the trick now, but if not I'll campaign for the synthetic T3.  Funny how docs have one way of doing things, and try to apply that to every patient.


Always the reason to try and find a dr who listens to you listening to your own body and not just reading results on paper.



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Connect
Friday, July 14, 2006, 2:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
Posts: 743
Quoted from Melissa_J


Higher TSH means lower thyroid, usually, so it's best to be in the 1-3 range in my experience.  I'm surprised I felt as good as I did at a 6.

It's possible to have any lab results and any symptoms  I've felt both high and low at the same time, and almost had my pituitary scanned b/c for a while the TSH didn't respond right to the T4.  I'm hoping levothroid does the trick now, but if not I'll campaign for the synthetic T3.  Funny how docs have one way of doing things, and try to apply that to every patient.



What is T4?


INFJ
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Melissa_J
Friday, July 14, 2006, 4:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
Sa Bon Nim
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Hopefully I have this right, T4 is the precursor to the active T3 thyroid hormone.  Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, etc. are all synthetic T4.  The thyroid produces T4.  Then your body and liver convert that to T3 for use.  There can be hangups all along the way, so some people do fine with synthetic T4, the standard treatment, others need natural thyroid (a combination), or synthetic T3 alone or combined with synthetic T4.

I don't know why doctors don't like to prescribe synthetic T3, it is much more powerful than the T4, so maybe it's harder to get the dose just right?  It also breaks down faster, so it doesn't last as long on the shelf or in the body...I think.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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italybound
Friday, July 14, 2006, 9:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 58
to add to Melissa's info, 93% of T4 and 7% of T3 is secreted by the thyroid gland. Almost all the T4 is converted to T3 in the tissues. T3 is four times as potent as T4, but is present in the blood in smaller quantities and for a much shorter period of time. For normal qtys of T4 to form, we need to ingest about 1 mg of iodine in the form of iodides a week, thus the reason salt is iodized. Hope my Himalayan salt has iodine. I'd be pretty sure it does w/ all the minerals in it. It would be my guess the docs don't prescribe T3 much because the T4 is converted to T3. Maybe the T3 that is converted from T4, lasts longer in the body than a synthetic T3. Don't know, just a wild guess.



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mikendomsmum
Friday, July 14, 2006, 4:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from pkarmeier


As is the case in sooooooooo many drugs and just aggravating as all get out!!!!!
Guess I need to look at what is in Levoxyl.  Could be setting myself up for failure each and every morning.  


If you find out, please let me know, I take levoxyl too.


Karen
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Mrs T O+
Friday, July 14, 2006, 5:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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As I read this thread, I am amazaed that  there are not more nutritional therapies available. There must be some herbs, homeopathic things, exercise protocols, diet, viatmins/minerals to help.  It's surprising that so many of you are on synthetics.  
Dr. D. What do you recommend??
S S & L,
Mrs "T"  O+

PS It seems probiotics are touted for so many things.  Do you think they would help in this?  


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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Jane
Friday, July 14, 2006, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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My endo changed me from sythroid to levothroid because of the fillers.  I guess all the others have artificial dyes.  I don't know about cornstarch though.  The T3 that I take is compounded at the pharmacy.  I take a small capsule of that in the morning and the levothroid (differing doses on different days of the week.)  I've been on a dose for many many many years that had totally suppressed my own thyroid from working because my tonsils were irradiated as a baby.  Just this past visit my endo told me that in some cases having the TSH as low as mine, point something, could actually interfere with weight loss too and certainly could explain some of my other symptoms like sleep problems.  
Jane
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